Author Topic: Never Trumpers Illustrate Why Loyalty Is An Important Political Virtue (Read 3165 times)

roamer_1 · « **Reply #50 on:** March 17, 2021, 01:48:39 am »

Quote from: skeeter on March 17, 2021, 12:34:19 am

Absolutely true. Which is why all I require of my politician is fealty to the Constitution.

That would require political Conservatism across the board.

roamer_1 · « **Reply #51 on:** March 17, 2021, 01:52:39 am »

Quote from: The_Reader_David on March 17, 2021, 01:43:16 am

Braggadocio, coziness with dictators, too much enthusiasm for tariffs (which are a blunt instrument in trade negotiations), inability to delegate responsibility (as evidenced by repeated conflicts with his own appointees), spreading the delusional notion that the Vice President as President of the Senate could single-handedly reject the vote of the Electoral College, setting up a cult of personality,....

That isn't to say there wasn't a lot of good: Operation Warp Speed, constitutionalist judges, confronting both Iran and China more effectively than any recent President, the Abraham Accords, the return of due process to the adjudication of campus sexual misconduct claims,...

The main virtue of Trump was that he was not resolutely leading the country in the wrong direction. He gave us what I expected when he was elected: four years of random governance, some good, some bad.

That's probably fair.

LMAO · « **Reply #52 on:** March 17, 2021, 02:41:16 am »

Quote from: The_Reader_David on March 17, 2021, 01:43:16 am

Braggadocio, coziness with dictators, too much enthusiasm for tariffs (which are a blunt instrument in trade negotiations), inability to delegate responsibility (as evidenced by repeated conflicts with his own appointees), spreading the delusional notion that the Vice President as President of the Senate could single-handedly reject the vote of the Electoral College, setting up a cult of personality,....

That isn't to say there wasn't a lot of good: Operation Warp Speed, constitutionalist judges, confronting both Iran and China more effectively than any recent President, the Abraham Accords, the return of due process to the adjudication of campus sexual misconduct claims,...

The main virtue of Trump was that he was not resolutely leading the country in the wrong direction. He gave us what I expected when he was elected: four years of random governance, some good, some bad.

Good post

skeeter · « **Reply #53 on:** March 17, 2021, 02:52:32 am »

Quote from: roamer_1 on March 17, 2021, 01:48:39 am

That would require political Conservatism across the board.

Not by your own definition.

roamer_1 · « **Reply #54 on:** March 17, 2021, 03:04:20 am »

Quote from: skeeter on March 17, 2021, 02:52:32 am

Not by your own definition.

Yes, in fact, it would. The problem with attempting to hyphenate Conservatism is that the principles it stands upon are interactive, interwoven.

As an instance, you can claim to want small government, but that is impossible without fiscal conservatism reigning it in, and welfare will be predictably rampant without imbuing Christian moral principles...

The inter-operation of Conservative principles requires each the other. Some guy once said something like:

'Our Constitution was made only for a moral and religious People. It is wholly inadequate to the government of any other'

So the Constitution, in and of itself, without the Judeo-Christian prism to interpret it through, will fail. I will assert the same is true with regard to all Conservative principles... Because that is what American political Conservatism seeks to preserve. All of it is needed.

libertybele · « **Reply #55 on:** March 17, 2021, 03:24:03 am »

Quote from: roamer_1 on March 17, 2021, 03:04:20 am

Yes, in fact, it would. The problem with attempting to hyphenate Conservatism is that the principles it stands upon are interactive, interwoven.

As an instance, you can claim to want small government, but that is impossible without fiscal conservatism reigning it in, and welfare will be predictably rampant without imbuing Christian moral principles...

The inter-operation of Conservative principles requires each the other. Some guy once said something like:

'Our Constitution was made only for a moral and religious People. It is wholly inadequate to the government of any other'

So the Constitution, in and of itself, without the Judeo-Christian prism to interpret it through, will fail. I will assert the same is true with regard to all Conservative principles... Because that is what American political Conservatism seeks to preserve. All of it is needed.

That is why there has been and is an on going attack on religious freedom.... attempting to erase and destroy the very foundation and principles upon which this country was founded.

Right_in_Virginia · « **Reply #56 on:** March 17, 2021, 03:29:46 am »

Quote from: txradioguy on March 17, 2021, 12:21:08 am

@roamer_1 what a lot of people...even Conservatives don't realize is that Conservatism isn't a political ideology...it's an actual belief system.

Like a religion?

Right_in_Virginia · « **Reply #57 on:** March 17, 2021, 03:31:14 am »

Quote from: roamer_1 on March 17, 2021, 01:48:39 am

That would require political Conservatism across the board.

Except if you're Ronald Reagan.

jmyrlefuller · « **Reply #58 on:** March 17, 2021, 03:32:31 am »

Quote from: Right_in_Virginia on March 17, 2021, 03:29:46 am

Like a religion?

More like a set of standards.

roamer_1 · « **Reply #59 on:** March 17, 2021, 03:34:10 am »

Quote from: libertybele on March 17, 2021, 03:24:03 am

That is why there has been and is an on going attack on religious freedom.... attempting to erase and destroy the very foundation and principles upon which this country was founded.

Indeed there is an attack on all of it - There is no point in patting backs for a gain in one at the cost of all the others.
In fact the only thing that will save us now is a serious pushback across them all. Or it is truly for naught.

That is why I am offended by shiny things and candy from the front of the parade.
We desperately need meat and potatoes. We need to break the bones and suck the marrow. Nothing else will do.

roamer_1 · « **Reply #60 on:** March 17, 2021, 03:43:07 am »

Quote from: Right_in_Virginia on March 17, 2021, 03:29:46 am

Like a religion?

Yes. Like a philosophy - Since the actual religious portion (Judeo-Christian Ethic) is only a part.

roamer_1 · « **Reply #61 on:** March 17, 2021, 03:44:57 am »

Quote from: Right_in_Virginia on March 17, 2021, 03:31:14 am

Except if you're Ronald Reagan.

How so? Is this where you accuse him of promoting abortion or something?

roamer_1 · « **Reply #62 on:** March 17, 2021, 03:45:54 am »

Quote from: jmyrlefuller on March 17, 2021, 03:32:31 am

More like a set of standards.

Principles. True things. Things that are always true.

Right_in_Virginia · « **Reply #63 on:** March 17, 2021, 03:54:22 am »

Quote from: roamer_1 on March 17, 2021, 03:44:57 am

How so? Is this where you accuse him of promoting abortion or something?

I don't accuse the former President of anything. The truth is Ronald Reagan blew the lid off the deficit and a hole through this conservative cornerstone. (My opinion hasn't changed since our same discussion last evening.)

Reagan certainly didn't promote abortion; just as he certainly didn't accomplish one thing to stop it or slow it down. He didn't even drive down the block to speak at the annual Pro-Life March on the Capitol Mall -- not once in eight years.

I'm sure he did his best.

Right_in_Virginia · « **Reply #64 on:** March 17, 2021, 03:56:30 am »

Quote from: roamer_1 on March 17, 2021, 03:43:07 am

Yes. Like a philosophy - Since the actual religious portion (Judeo-Christian Ethic) is only a part.

I didn't say philosophy. Is conservatism a religious litmus test in politics?

roamer_1 · « **Reply #65 on:** March 17, 2021, 04:00:21 am »

Quote from: Right_in_Virginia on March 17, 2021, 03:56:30 am

I didn't say philosophy. Is conservatism a religious litmus test in politics?

That's why I corrected you. It certainly IS a philosophical litmus test. I will not vote for anyone but a Conservative. Why would I?

roamer_1 · « **Reply #66 on:** March 17, 2021, 04:06:06 am »

Quote from: Right_in_Virginia on March 17, 2021, 03:54:22 am

I don't accuse the former President of anything. The truth is Ronald Reagan blew the lid off the deficit and a hole through this conservative cornerstone. (My opinion hasn't changed since our same discussion last evening.)

Reagan certainly didn't promote abortion; just as he certainly didn't accomplish one thing to stop it or slow it down. He didn't even drive down the block to speak at the annual Pro-Life March on the Capitol Mall -- not once in eight years. I'm sure he did his best.

Right_in_Virginia · « **Reply #67 on:** March 17, 2021, 04:29:02 am »

Quote from: roamer_1 on March 17, 2021, 04:06:06 am

Yup, he sure was affable and graceful.

Good thing because his fiscal policies were a mess and his social footprint nonexistent.

Right_in_Virginia · « **Reply #68 on:** March 17, 2021, 04:30:21 am »

Quote from: roamer_1 on March 17, 2021, 04:00:21 am

That's why I corrected you. It certainly IS a philosophical litmus test. I will not vote for anyone but a Conservative. Why would I?

Don't be afraid to say it ... your conservative principles include a religious litmus test cornerstone.

Come, on ..... man up and own it.

Right_in_Virginia · « **Reply #69 on:** March 17, 2021, 04:33:04 am »

Quote from: jmyrlefuller on March 17, 2021, 03:32:31 am

More like a set of standards.

Then why are these "standards" called "Judeo-Christian" .

roamer_1 · « **Reply #70 on:** March 17, 2021, 05:41:51 am »

Quote from: Right_in_Virginia on March 17, 2021, 04:29:02 am

Yup, he sure was affable and graceful.

Good thing because his fiscal policies were a mess and his social footprint nonexistent.

See, if you were a Reaganite, you would know that was Reagan's way of saying you're full of crap... Far be it from a Tumster to catch on... Bless your heart.

sneakypete · « **Reply #71 on:** March 17, 2021, 04:55:32 pm »

Quote from: txradioguy on March 16, 2021, 03:16:18 pm

But loyalty to whom? Or to what?

A lot of people that call themselves conservative these days want all of us loyal to a person not a political belief system or a party.

And that's just not gonna fly.

@txradioguy

I love it when the RINO's "out" themselves.

sneakypete · « **Reply #72 on:** March 17, 2021, 04:59:04 pm »

Quote from: Cyber Liberty on March 16, 2021, 10:17:04 pm

Anti-Trumpers like to lump loyalists to Trump with loyalty to the Constitution, and it's starting to piss me off. It's possible to be loyal to the Constitution and not care for Donald Trump.

@Cyber Liberty

Of course it is. Everyone is wrong occasionally,and Party people are conditioned to be Party People. It is always difficult to break away from a cult.

sneakypete · « **Reply #73 on:** March 17, 2021, 05:06:18 pm »

Quote from: Sled Dog on March 16, 2021, 10:49:01 pm

Oh! Wait!

You could have read the whole post to see how that worked out. Or maybe you could have tried paying attention during the robbery. It was only four years ago.

Who would Mittens have installed? Garland, of course.

Who would McStain have installed? Hillary, of course.

Who would Jeb! have installed? His brother?

I don't recall seeing you or anyone else posting against Gorsuch, Kavanaugh or Barrett at the time they were confirmed. The best Justice to be appointed in the last 30 years was Thomas, and that was by the very unlikely RINO president I-Lied-About-Taxes.

Trump did his best with what he had. What he did manage to do was seriously shift the Ninth Circus towards a more American outlook and similar miracles on the other courts that will last for decades.

Quote
We all know Roberts is either a weasel or the Rodents have serious blackmail leverage on the boy.
He should have resigned while Trump was in a position to put an American in his place.

@Sled Dog

MY vote is "both". One day "his" children are going to be adults,and have some tales to tell if they are smart and lucky enough to not be blackmail subject themselves. He is safe because the Homo Mafia in DC does one thing VERY well,and that is protect their fellow homos. Even the Dim homos weren't willing to "out" Boy Jorge. They were smart enough to understand that once the "circular firing squad" starts shooting,there is no stopping it until everybody is dead or out of ammunition.

AND being political creatures,it is,as always "All about Me,me,ME,DAMMIT!"

goatprairie · « **Reply #74 on:** March 17, 2021, 05:19:59 pm »

Quote from: The_Reader_David on March 17, 2021, 01:43:16 am

Braggadocio, coziness with dictators, too much enthusiasm for tariffs (which are a blunt instrument in trade negotiations), inability to delegate responsibility (as evidenced by repeated conflicts with his own appointees), spreading the delusional notion that the Vice President as President of the Senate could single-handedly reject the vote of the Electoral College, setting up a cult of personality,....

That isn't to say there wasn't a lot of good: Operation Warp Speed, constitutionalist judges, confronting both Iran and China more effectively than any recent President, the Abraham Accords, the return of due process to the adjudication of campus sexual misconduct claims,...

The main virtue of Trump was that he was not resolutely leading the country in the wrong direction. He gave us what I expected when he was elected: four years of random governance, some good, some bad.