Author Topic: How safe are the COVID vaccines?  (Read 11713 times)

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Offline Skull

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Re: How safe are the COVID vaccines?
« Reply #200 on: April 29, 2021, 03:37:09 pm »
Sad, even pitiable that the automatic, thoughtless attacks on the source or messenger, which ignore the content of the message are becoming so common.
Truth is against the stream of common thought, deep, subtle, difficult, delicate, unseen by passion’s slaves cloaked in the murk of ignorance. Vipassī Buddha

Offline thackney

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Re: How safe are the COVID vaccines?
« Reply #201 on: April 29, 2021, 04:41:31 pm »
Sad, even pitiable that the automatic, thoughtless attacks on the source or messenger, which ignore the content of the message are becoming so common.

A person who consistently lies and misrepresents is not worth of the time to hear their next claims.
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Offline catfish1957

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Re: How safe are the COVID vaccines?
« Reply #202 on: April 29, 2021, 04:47:00 pm »
A person who consistently lies and misrepresents is not worth of the time to hear their next claims.

I typically consider our side (conservatives) with a 10-20 IQ point advantage over our enemies.  So I am somewhat perplexed with some of this  anti-vaxxer sentiment.
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Offline PeteS in CA

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Re: How safe are the COVID vaccines?
« Reply #203 on: April 29, 2021, 05:14:58 pm »
A person who consistently lies and misrepresents is not worth of the time to hear their next claims.

Exactly. You can call RFK Jr., etc., ham sandwiches for all I care, but I'm not going invest time into reading the blah-blah of a serial liar.
« Last Edit: April 29, 2021, 05:17:33 pm by PeteS in CA »
If, as anti-Covid-vaxxers claim, https://www.poynter.org/fact-checking/2021/robert-f-kennedy-jr-said-the-covid-19-vaccine-is-the-deadliest-vaccine-ever-made-thats-not-true/ , https://gospelnewsnetwork.org/2021/11/23/covid-shots-are-the-deadliest-vaccines-in-medical-history/ , The Vaccine is deadly, where in the US have Pfizer and Moderna hidden the millions of bodies of those who died of "vaccine injury"? Is reality a Big Pharma Shill?

Millions now living should have died. Anti-Covid-Vaxxer ghouls hardest hit.

Online mountaineer

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Re: How safe are the COVID vaccines?
« Reply #204 on: April 29, 2021, 05:52:35 pm »
Where was the proof Dr. Tenpenny was proven a liar? (Oh, excuse me, one who "consistently lies and misrepresents.") An AFP "fact check"?

I don't know anything about the doctor nor what she's said about the vaccines. I'm not against vaccines, personally. But I am concerned at what appears to be a kneejerk hostility toward anyone who questions the efficacy and necessity of this particular vaccine.
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Offline Skull

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Re: How safe are the COVID vaccines?
« Reply #205 on: April 29, 2021, 06:15:04 pm »
Where was the proof Dr. Tenpenny was proven a liar? (Oh, excuse me, one who "consistently lies and misrepresents.") An AFP "fact check"?

I don't know anything about the doctor nor what she's said about the vaccines. I'm not against vaccines, personally. But I am concerned at what appears to be a knee-jerk hostility toward anyone who questions the efficacy and necessity of this particular vaccine.

It is foolish to always and only have two choices - anti & pro anything.  It is much simpler, granted, but not the way to study or learn.

Like mountaineer "I'm not against vaccines, personally;" neither am I automatically for vaccines. 

But I have seen & known enough examples of blind or careless acceptance of authorities.  Authorities become such because too many folks do not question our own assumptions and are either  999yawn or  :yowsa: regarding experts.
« Last Edit: April 29, 2021, 06:44:47 pm by Skull »
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Offline thackney

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Re: How safe are the COVID vaccines?
« Reply #206 on: April 29, 2021, 07:23:46 pm »
Where was the proof Dr. Tenpenny was proven a liar? (Oh, excuse me, one who "consistently lies and misrepresents.") An AFP "fact check"?

I don't know anything about the doctor nor what she's said about the vaccines. I'm not against vaccines, personally. But I am concerned at what appears to be a kneejerk hostility toward anyone who questions the efficacy and necessity of this particular vaccine.

She has spent decades being one of the most vocal anti-vaxers.  This one isn't new.
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Online mountaineer

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Re: How safe are the COVID vaccines?
« Reply #207 on: April 29, 2021, 07:25:20 pm »
She has spent decades being one of the most vocal anti-vaxers.  This one isn't new.
That may be, but where's your evidence she's wrong, let alone a liar?
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Offline Hoodat

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Re: How safe are the COVID vaccines?
« Reply #208 on: April 29, 2021, 09:52:33 pm »
I don't know anything about the doctor nor what she's said about the vaccines. I'm not against vaccines, personally. But I am concerned at what appears to be a kneejerk hostility toward anyone who questions the efficacy and necessity of this particular vaccine.

Agree 100%.
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Offline Hoodat

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Re: How safe are the COVID vaccines?
« Reply #209 on: April 29, 2021, 09:59:46 pm »
Like mountaineer "I'm not against vaccines, personally;" neither am I automatically for vaccines. 

Personally, I am against vaccines for me.  I don't give a damn what anyone else does.  If you want a vaccine, have at it.  Just don't expect me to get one too.

Likewise, I am against anything the government pushes.  But that doesn't mean I would try to prevent anyone else from collecting food stamps.

If a political party does not have its foundation in the determination to advance a cause that is right and that is moral, then it is not a political party; it is merely a conspiracy to seize power.

-Dwight Eisenhower-


"The [U.S.] Constitution is a limitation on the government, not on private individuals ... it does not prescribe the conduct of private individuals, only the conduct of the government ... it is not a charter for government power, but a charter of the citizen's protection against the government."

-Ayn Rand-

Online mountaineer

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Re: How safe are the COVID vaccines?
« Reply #210 on: April 29, 2021, 10:11:15 pm »
Personally, I am against vaccines for me.  I don't give a damn what anyone else does.  If you want a vaccine, have at it.  Just don't expect me to get one too.

Likewise, I am against anything the government pushes.  But that doesn't mean I would try to prevent anyone else from collecting food stamps.
Likewise. Whenever there's a vaccine that I believe might be a good and necessary thing for me, I'll 1) give it a good cost/benefit analysis, and 2) maybe get it. None of the covid vaccines has passed the test. I'm still considering the shingles shot.
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Offline Skull

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Re: How safe are the COVID vaccines?
« Reply #211 on: April 29, 2021, 10:16:28 pm »
Going to add the Ike quote in Hoodat's sig to the In Praise of Virtue thread.  :patriot:
Truth is against the stream of common thought, deep, subtle, difficult, delicate, unseen by passion’s slaves cloaked in the murk of ignorance. Vipassī Buddha

Offline DB

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Re: How safe are the COVID vaccines?
« Reply #212 on: April 29, 2021, 10:41:51 pm »
I'm not against vaccines in general.

In this case what is being called a vaccine isn't. It may work fine long term but the simple fact is we don't know that yet. It is currently a science experiment with an unknown long term result. For those who have higher risks from not taking it verses taking it then it makes sense. I'm not there.

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Online bigheadfred

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Re: How safe are the COVID vaccines?
« Reply #214 on: April 29, 2021, 11:17:23 pm »
I'm not anti-vaxx.  I've had my rabies vax and booster before. "All" of them (mostly), in fact,  from childhood on. Except for the flu shot. There are some I deem worthless and haven't gotten. The Shingles vax may be of interest to me.

I have long term problems with blood clots in my legs and take daily rat poison for it/them. Part of it is the science. And part of it belief(s).

Not taking this one.
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Online libertybele

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Re: How safe are the COVID vaccines?
« Reply #215 on: April 29, 2021, 11:42:06 pm »
I'm not against vaccines in general.

In this case what is being called a vaccine isn't. It may work fine long term but the simple fact is we don't know that yet. It is currently a science experiment with an unknown long term result. For those who have higher risks from not taking it verses taking it then it makes sense. I'm not there.

I agree with you.  I am a cardiac patient and have several other health issues,  but this vaccine was rushed through, people have had adverse reactions and have died.  More and more I hear of people who do well with the first dose and the 2nd dose kicks their butts....so I'm not so convinced that for someone who is already health compromised that the vaccine is going to be more helpful than harmful. 

It obviously is a very individual decision and no one should be chastised for making the decision that they feel is right for them.
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Offline Smokin Joe

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Re: How safe are the COVID vaccines?
« Reply #216 on: April 30, 2021, 04:03:24 am »
I'm not against vaccines in general.

In this case what is being called a vaccine isn't. It may work fine long term but the simple fact is we don't know that yet. It is currently a science experiment with an unknown long term result. For those who have higher risks from not taking it verses taking it then it makes sense. I'm not there.
that pretty much sums up what I think as well. As for Doctor Tenpenny, I am a scientist, and all viewpoints should at least be considered. I am willing to listen to reasonable arguments for or against something, and she has her stated reasons for opposing mass vaccinations.

The more superficial your knowledge of the subject (any subject) the easier it is to dismiss opposing viewpoints, so it takes some digging to get to the meat of the matter, whatever it is. It is easy to get caught up in the slogans and hype for either viewpoint or none at all, but for me, the picture I have is that people went to great lengths, even crafting 'studies' which were deeply flawed from the onset, to discredit an early onset regimen that has appeared (where the data are even let out (not censored)) to be effective in the vast majority of cases. Anything which supported the use of the complete regimen at the appropriate time in the course of the disease was summarily discredited by investigations which used parts (only) of that regimen, at the wrong time in the course of the disease, and then claimed the regimen to be ineffective.

That's about like saying a bucket of sand or water can't be used to put out a fire, because you waited until the whole barn was fully involved instead of snuffing the flames while they were small.

All of this, apparently, was conducted by people who were supporting a vaccine (or other, expensive, treatment alternatives) and doing so to maintain the economic malaise the panic over the disease enabled them to generate (itself a result of media manipulation and mismanagement of resources and patients on a local scale) in lieu of a vaccine, which has been sold as the panacea from the beginning.

The political and economic interweavings are gobsmacking. The science has been polluted by both, and if you dig, the flaws in the studies damning hydroxychloroquine, ivermectin, and even chloroquine ate glaring, because one, or sometimes two parts, of a three part regimen were used, and the most essential one left out, or dosages were insanely high (in the case of Chloroquine in the Brazilian study).

It isn't just the scientist in me that questions the motivation that would lead authority figures in politics and the medical field to blatantly compromise their integrity (what they had, anyway), resulting in the deaths of tens, if not hundreds of thousands through bad policy, both politically, and through bad science.

Be that motivation political or pecuniary, this whole sh*tshow has been a crime against humanity as experts in their fields have misled the public and abused their positions of power. That does not include the very real motivations in place from early on to tweak the statistics for direct financial and indirect political gain, likely leading to inflated death tolls, nor the questionable accuracy of testing which further fostered the panic and all that ensued from that.

So, I'm not in any hurry to buy what they are selling, and the sales pitch is almost pushy enough for the telemarketers to chime in (surprised they've missed it, actually).
« Last Edit: April 30, 2021, 04:06:59 am by Smokin Joe »
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Offline PeteS in CA

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Re: How safe are the COVID vaccines?
« Reply #218 on: April 30, 2021, 03:14:41 pm »
...
I don't know anything about the doctor nor what she's said about the vaccines. I'm not against vaccines, personally. But I am concerned at what appears to be a kneejerk hostility toward anyone who questions the efficacy and necessity of this particular vaccine.

Maybe this was not in reference to me, but my responses to people are based on facts and, sometimes, my experience. I'll gladly admit mocking CTs such as the vaccine-microchip CT and the mRNA-reprograms-your-DNA CT, because those CTs are STOOOOOpid. Outside sources parroting those CTs get my well-earned scorn and mockery.
If, as anti-Covid-vaxxers claim, https://www.poynter.org/fact-checking/2021/robert-f-kennedy-jr-said-the-covid-19-vaccine-is-the-deadliest-vaccine-ever-made-thats-not-true/ , https://gospelnewsnetwork.org/2021/11/23/covid-shots-are-the-deadliest-vaccines-in-medical-history/ , The Vaccine is deadly, where in the US have Pfizer and Moderna hidden the millions of bodies of those who died of "vaccine injury"? Is reality a Big Pharma Shill?

Millions now living should have died. Anti-Covid-Vaxxer ghouls hardest hit.

Offline PeteS in CA

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Re: How safe are the COVID vaccines?
« Reply #219 on: April 30, 2021, 03:21:49 pm »

https://odysee.com/@DrAndrewKaufman:f/326182206_Has-COVID19-Been-Isolated-with-Dr.-Andrew-Kaufman-and-Dr.-Thomas-Cowan--Jour...-963108570762892-(1):1


https://odysee.com/@AlfAnonymous:3/DrAndrewKaufman-ExosomasOVirus:3

The SARS-CoV-2 virus has been isolated multiple times in multiple countries. "Dr." Thomas Cowan's medical license was suspended by the State of California in 2017, a suspension that was supposed to expire in 2022. He renounced his medical license in 2020. As a duck often says ......
If, as anti-Covid-vaxxers claim, https://www.poynter.org/fact-checking/2021/robert-f-kennedy-jr-said-the-covid-19-vaccine-is-the-deadliest-vaccine-ever-made-thats-not-true/ , https://gospelnewsnetwork.org/2021/11/23/covid-shots-are-the-deadliest-vaccines-in-medical-history/ , The Vaccine is deadly, where in the US have Pfizer and Moderna hidden the millions of bodies of those who died of "vaccine injury"? Is reality a Big Pharma Shill?

Millions now living should have died. Anti-Covid-Vaxxer ghouls hardest hit.

Offline LegalAmerican

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Re: How safe are the COVID vaccines?
« Reply #220 on: April 30, 2021, 04:52:20 pm »
From a friend. Based on Kaufman above.
-------------------------------------------------
From just a logical point of view alone, you can see that saying a disease has been positively identified and yet, can be asymptomatic, is ridiculous unless it's part of a hoax, which in that case, an asymptomatic disease becomes a very useful tool.

Think about it. We're told that COVID19 can have the symptoms of a hundred other diseases, everything from tuberculosis, to lung cancer to the common cold and even allergies.....It can have everything from multiple symptoms of things like gun shot wounds, falling in the bathtub injuries, to no symptoms at all....Everything from a goat to a papaya has tested positive on the accepted test for COVID19, which is the RT-PCR test.

So....with these facts in mind, on this basis alone, you can deduce that it is a hoax logically....If EVERYTHING can be mis-labled as COVID now....then does the disease COVID actually exist? If you can't isolate the symptoms, let alone the thing that is causing the symptoms, how can you create a cure for it? It's like attempting to cure the "effect" without knowing the cause...or in this case, misidentifying the cause in a thousand different ways.

And  so we come to the idea of a vaccine itself which has questionable logic, because the idea is ostensibly to inoculate a person from the effects of a disease before they get it and before the CAUSE of the disease is known...So right there, you run into a logical error, because you're attempting to now treat for the future effects of an unknown or misidentified cause....Would anyone argue that it's appropriate to treat for the symptoms of a common cold with a vaccine for a virus that has never been identified and isolated/purified out of a solution of genetic fluid?

And yet, that's what you're doing here. People don't seem to have the logical reasoning power to grasp the error in this thought process.

Offline DB

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Re: How safe are the COVID vaccines?
« Reply #221 on: April 30, 2021, 11:39:20 pm »
Take note, the Dr. who designed the HCQ and Zinc treatment has won the Nobel prize for his work on it.

https://conservativeplaybook.com/2021/04/30/hcq-proponent-dr-vladimir-zelenko-to-receive-nobel-prize/

That's a stick in the eye to the powers that be.

Online Wingnut

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Re: How safe are the COVID vaccines?
« Reply #222 on: May 01, 2021, 12:01:30 am »
I have no desire to be a guinea pig. But by all means, you all get jabbed. It is your patriotic duty. Wear your mask too.

What bothers me is that the vaccines are being offered as a gigantic drug trial, a fact people tend to forget or ignore. They've each been approved by the FDA on an Emergency Use Authorization . Nobody knows if, or what, the long-term effects will be until there's been time to study them.
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Online libertybele

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Re: How safe are the COVID vaccines?
« Reply #223 on: May 01, 2021, 12:11:38 am »
I have no desire to be a guinea pig. But by all means, you all get jabbed. It is your patriotic duty. Wear your mask too.

What bothers me is that the vaccines are being offered as a gigantic drug trial, a fact people tend to forget or ignore. They've each been approved by the FDA on an Emergency Use Authorization . Nobody knows if, or what, the long-term effects will be until there's been time to study them.
   

Nor do I.   I think we'll start to see the long term effects on people and we won't need a study.  It'll be obvious.

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Live in harmony with one another; do not be haughty, but associate with the lowly, do not claim to be wiser than you are.  Do not repay anyone evil for evil, but take thought for what is noble in the sight of all.  If it is possible, so far as it depends on you, live peaceably with all…do not be overcome by evil, but overcome evil with good.

Offline Smokin Joe

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Re: How safe are the COVID vaccines?
« Reply #224 on: May 01, 2021, 05:49:56 am »
   

Nor do I.   I think we'll start to see the long term effects on people and we won't need a study.  It'll be obvious.
Nah. They'll blame everything from having had a beer to eating red meat. The boogeymen will fit in with the Green New Deal to help their destruction of America along.
How God must weep at humans' folly! Stand fast! God knows what he is doing!
Seventeen Techniques for Truth Suppression

Of all tyrannies, a tyranny sincerely exercised for the good of its victims may be the most oppressive. It would be better to live under robber barons than under omnipotent moral busybodies. The robber baron's cruelty may sometimes sleep, his cupidity may at some point be satiated; but those who torment us for our own good will torment us without end for they do so with the approval of their own conscience.

C S Lewis