GOP dilemma — how to keep Trumpers yet regain anti-Trumpers

[Lincolncollector]

To those of you who say that Trump could not have put his message another way, I would point to Ronald Reagan, “the great communicator.” A skillful politician can work his or her voice in ways that even make their opponents think they sound reasonable.

[sneakypete]

Of course it does @Hoodat   I'm asking you where the government fits into it.  So, please, use "personal responsibility" in a political ad.  Maybe then together we can assess how many voters it will cost us.

Conservatives really need to remember  -- as righteous as our principles may be  -- we stand for smaller government, not a broad judgmental, intrusive one substituting for a parent.

@Right_in_Virginia

Kill Joy! There you go,trying to take all the fun out of it for the control freaks. You ain't never going to get them to cooperate as long as you keep taking like that.

[Sled Dog]

This is the exact same speech the GOPe has been feeding me my whole life.  It is the same speech they fed Reagan in 1976 and tried to feed him in 1980.  It is the same speech given by those who gave us George HW Bush, Bob Dole, John McCain, and Mitt Romney.  It was the one given to George W. Bush in 2006 when he tried to privatize Social Security.  And now we have to hear it again from you.

Whatever.

You won't fight in a meaningful way, you lose.

It's that simple.

Turd Party is neither a meaningful nor effective response.    It's how Woodrow Wilson and Rapist Clinton got elected, as well as GW Bush.

[Sled Dog]

To those of you who say that Trump could not have put his message another way, I would point to Ronald Reagan, “the great communicator.” A skillful politician can work his or her voice in ways that even make their opponents think they sound reasonable.

Trump was a greater communicator, to be honest about it.

You could tell because the Rodents screams were mixed with RINO cries.

[sneakypete]

Good post. We can dump the RINO's and still attract new Republican voters by sticking to and explaining our principles in language that makes sense to people in their daily lives.

@andy58-in-nh

I agree.

If we want to gain political power and make changes,we have to convince people we have the right answers,not condemn them to hell and then demand they follow our orders.

America is supposed to be a FREE country,not a religious or cult dictatorship. We need to get people to come to our side by putting more focus on convincing them we are right than screaming in their faces about them being wrong.

[Sled Dog]

heads up, people.

What the Rodents took 120 years to build was never going to be dismantled in one term.

Anyone remember the premise of The Dark Knight?

In Batman Begins, Batman took on the gangsters.

In The Dark Knight, the gangsters fought back.

The Rodents are fighting back.   Just as they didn't expect to lose control of the California assembly in 1998 (? - forgive my approximate dates) they never expected their drunk harridan corrupt puppet to lose in 2016, but when both events happens the Rodents fought back without mercy.

California is now a lost cause, invaded by Mexico and nearly ruined by socialism.   Because the Republican voters fled to elsewhere...and many were stupid enough to keep voting for the same crap in their new states.

The people have nowhere to flee now that the cancer has stolen the nations government.   So they're going to have to fight back.

So the third-party people and other losers really need to stop whining and start fighting.

[skeeter]

To those of you who say that Trump could not have put his message another way, I would point to Ronald Reagan, “the great communicator.” A skillful politician can work his or her voice in ways that even make their opponents think they sound reasonable.

A person is who he or she is. They can't be someone else.

We, on the other hand, can use our own discretion to look past the style. If the guy is proposing to do things you agree with, for crying out loud support him and don't listen to what the lying rat media say.

They are trying to influence you, and apparently they are succeeding.

[Right_in_Virginia]

But it's not her body and not her choice.

It very much is to her @Sled Dog --- and the Supreme Court.

You've got to decide which is more important to you:  Being such a sanctimonious, off-putting judge of womankind that they wouldn't spit on if you were on fire ... or creating an environment to both save babies from abortion and win elections. 

[Right_in_Virginia]

To those of you who say that Trump could not have put his message another way, I would point to Ronald Reagan, “the great communicator.”

I've wondered just how successful a communicator Reagan would have been in this century @Lincolncollector ---

[Hoodat]

Here is what too many of you forget. We can't fix anything...we can't advance any conservative principles...we cannot move the nation back towards justice and sanity...we cannot turn the budget around or secure the border....if we lose elections.

Let's go back to 2010.  The Democrats pass Obamacare through reconciliation.  Not a single Republican votes for it, but not a single Republican tries to stop it either.  The bill could have been tied up for eternity with an endless parade of amendments.  But they simply didn't have it in them.  Instead, they turn to us - the TEA Conservatives.  They said that if we got out there with enough support to give them control of the House, they would be able to reverse Obamacare.  This is exactly what Conservatives did.  They turned out and handed the Speaker position over to the GOP.  And in 2011, what did John Boehner and his new Republican majority do?  They fully funded ObamaCare.  2012?  Same thing.  And again in 2013.  By 2014, they cried about how they couldn't do it without the Senate.  So Conservatives turned out again and gave the GOP control of the Senate too.

So in 2015 with both Houses of Congress under GOP control, do you think they defunded Obamacare?  Nope.  In 2016, the new cry became the White House.  They needed a Republican President to get the deed done.  So once again, Conservatives turned out and got Trump elected.

Now it's 2017.  Republicans control the House.  Republicans control the Senate.  Republicans control the White House.  Yet ObamaCare still gets funded.  The Federal government still mandates what must be covered.  The deduction for medical costs remains at 10% instead of reverting back to 7.5%, hurting those with chronic health issues the most.  And the taxpayer is still on the hook for other people's insurance that now costs four times what it cost before because of government mandates.  The only thing that changed was that a tax (for which there was no penalty for avoiding and no mechanism for enforcing) got removed.  Everything else remained in place.  Everything.

This is what happened when we won elections.  And they were won because there was a Conservative cause at stake.  Well I for one am sick and tired of being lied to.

I think its fair to say that nearly everyone here believes in the advancement of conservatism as our governing philosophy...

The Republican Party clearly does not.

So quit damn trying to feel good about how f'ing pure you are as a conservative

I don't feel good.  I feel betrayed.  Seriously, I can't even get the Republican Party to put safeguards in place that will block an individual ballot from being counted more than once in an election.  Never mind something complex like honoring their word to repeal ObamaCare or defunding Planned Parenthood.

and start trying to win some people over to our philosophy with reason, compassion and empathy...without all the moral grandstanding, preaching and condescension.

I do that on a daily basis.  Yet all I get back is how people like me are the problem, and how we must give out free sh*t just like the Democrats do in order to win elections, all while our very party sells us out.

That is how we win....and that is what the President was doing before the NT/RINO's undercut him at every turn and put us ALL where we are now.

The GOP was undercutting Trump from the day following the 2016 GOP Convention until now.  Trump simply didn't recognize it.  Personally, I don't have a problem with Trump.  But I have a hell of a big problem with the GOP from top to bottom.  They alone are to blame for Biden occupying the White House.  They alone are to blame for Dem control of the House and Senate.  And they alone are to blame for the $1.9 trillion slush fund that Democrats just voted themselves to carry them through the next eight years of elections.

[Sled Dog]

It very much is to her @Sled Dog --- and the Supreme Court.

She's wrong.   She should learn something about science and how to swallow.

The Supreme Court is a political body and not perfect.

The ruling permitting the unrestricted murder of unborn babies isn't the first flawed political error they've concocted out of thin air.

You've got to decide which is more important to you:  Being such a sanctimonious, off-putting judge of womankind that they wouldn't spit on if you were on fire ... or creating an environment to both save babies from abortion and win elections.

I'm not a judge.

I deal in facts.

The fact is that the broad is living in the modern world with a bazillion ways to avoid getting knocked up, from the obvious (can't get preggers if she doesn't screw) to the arcane use of various pills and mechanical aids.

Avoiding pregnancy isn't difficult.   Why is it so many woman can't figure it out?   

Clearly the environment to avoid abortions already exists and has existed since the time men and women figured out what they were doing together that made all those babies in the first place.

People who respect women don't pretend they're helpless idiots who need to murder their babies because they're too stupid to avoid getting knocked up.

Then there's the other thing.  Who's fault is it that she's knocked up?  If the crime for pregnancy is capital punishment, who, exactly is the guilty party and who should pay the price for their crime? 


And, oh by the way, just in case you missed recent events, President Trump was re-elected in a landslide of historic proportions.   Nobody in US history has ever received more votes than he has.    That he's been evicted from the White House is a matter of crime and a revolution in process.    A coup.   And those chickens will be coming home to roost, I'm sure.

[Sled Dog]

Let's go back to 2010.  The Democrats pass Obamacare through reconciliation.

Let's make sure all the facts are on the table.

In 2008 Al Groper Franken stole that seat from the people of Minnesota by discovering yet another box of ballots in the trunk of his car.   Franken was not a real Senator and had no business there.

Thus when the reconciliation vote came down, 59 Rodent Senators voted to scam the American people, and they used the vote of a fraudulent usurper from Minnesota to close the scam.

That was MessiahCare's first illegality.

Not a single Republican votes for it, but not a single Republican tries to stop it either.  The bill could have been tied up for eternity with an endless parade of amendments.

Only if Hairy Reid, the Two Eyed Senate Majority (Less One) Leader allowed that.   The future One-Eyed Man did not so permit.

  But they simply didn't have it in them.  Instead, they turn to us - the TEA Conservatives.  They said that if we got out there with enough support to give them control of the House, they would be able to reverse Obamacare.  This is exactly what Conservatives did.  They turned out and handed the Speaker position over to the GOP.  And in 2011, what did John Boehner and his new Republican majority do?  They fully funded ObamaCare.  2012?  Same thing.  And again in 2013.  By 2014, they cried about how they couldn't do it without the Senate.  So Conservatives turned out again and gave the GOP control of the Senate too.

They said that, but they had a McStain in their underwear.

So in 2015 with both Houses of Congress under GOP control, do you think they defunded Obamacare?  Nope.  In 2016, the new cry became the White House.  They needed a Republican President to get the deed done.  So once again, Conservatives turned out and got Trump elected.

They had a RINO Ryan problem, too.

You shouldn't hang on "Republicans" the vile sins of the RINOs.

Republicans are Americans, RINOs and Rodents are not.

Now it's 2017.  Republicans control the House.  Republicans control the Senate.  Republicans control the White House.  Yet ObamaCare still gets funded.  The Federal government still mandates what must be covered.  The deduction for medical costs remains at 10% instead of reverting back to 7.5%, hurting those with chronic health issues the most.  And the taxpayer is still on the hook for other people's insurance that now costs four times what it cost before because of government mandates.  The only thing that changed was that a tax (for which there was no penalty for avoiding and no mechanism for enforcing) got removed.  Everything else remained in place.  Everything.

There was still the McStain Problem.   That traitor was always betraying America, even from long before he was sent to the Senate.   He had special hotel privileges in Hanoi, too.   He wasn't much of a hero, no, not at all.

This is what happened when we won elections.  And they were won because there was a Conservative cause at stake.  Well I for one am sick and tired of being lied to.

Stop supporting RINOs, start supporting Americans.

Which will occasionally mean voting for a Rodent to eliminate a RINO.   While I did not vote for Jane Harman when she campaigned for to regain the 42nd District House Seat from California, I refused to vote again for the RINO pig Kuykendall who had won the seat for a single term.   Apparently I wasn't the only one.

His political career vanished overnight.

These new elections, I'm going on active predator mode, and if we can't eliminate RINOs in the primaries, I will vote for the Rodents to get rid of the RINOs.  Period.

Nor will I donate money to the RINO National Committee or any other group set up to funnel money to favored RINOs.

What are you going to do?

The GOP was undercutting Trump from the day following the 2016 GOP Convention until now.  Trump simply didn't recognize it.  Personally, I don't have a problem with Trump.  But I have a hell of a big problem with the GOP from top to bottom.  They alone are to blame for Biden occupying the White House.  They alone are to blame for Dem control of the House and Senate.  And they alone are to blame for the $1.9 trillion slush fund that Democrats just voted themselves to carry them through the next eight years of elections.

The RINOs were.

Not "the GOP".   The Americans are the GOP, we just need to throw out the party oligarchy and replace them with Americans.   It won't be an easy or quick task, and it won't be made any easier or quicker with whiny people pretending the whole of the party is the leadership and they're impotent.   Those impotent people need to just put on their best suits and strut around.  Other people will do the work.

[roamer_1]

IMHO actually dumping RINOs would be the greatest attractant to the GOP in 100 years but SERIOUSLY doubt it will ever happen because the PTB doesn't want it to happen.

And, the republic is now dead as a post so it doesn't matter anyway.

YUP.

[libertybele]

IMHO actually dumping RINOs would be the greatest attractant to the GOP in 100 years but SERIOUSLY doubt it will ever happen because the PTB doesn't want it to happen.

And, the republic is now dead as a post so it doesn't matter anyway.

Absolutely agree. 

[roamer_1]

So the third-party people and other losers really need to stop whining and start fighting.

Fight *for what*?? More than thirty years I been listening to that crap and nary a win. Not one in thirty friggin years.
Sooner or later a feller is going to stop expecting different results. For me, that was in 07... And for me, since then, without raising six figures every election, without pounding pavement, I have found far more success just practicing Conservatism with my own hand, where I can control and see real results.

So hell no. I heard it all before. And not a damn thing has changed.

[Right_in_Virginia]

She's wrong.   She should learn something about science and how to swallow.

You should learn something about wisdom and grace.

The Supreme Court is a political body and not perfect.

Agree,  And yet the Roe v Wade decision stands.  As a nation of laws, it matters little that the SC is a political body and not perfect.

I am not a judge.

I deal in facts.

The fact is that the broad is living in the modern world with a bazillion ways to avoid getting knocked up, from the obvious (can't get preggers if she doesn't screw) to the arcane use of various pills and mechanical aids.

Avoiding pregnancy isn't difficult.   Why is it so many woman can't figure it out?   

Clearly the environment to avoid abortions already exists and has existed since the time men and women figured out what they were doing together that made all those babies in the first place.

People who respect women don't pretend they're helpless idiots who need to murder their babies because they're too stupid to avoid getting knocked up.

You may not be a judge, but you are certainly judgmental, sanctimonious and repellant.  Neither your worldview nor your trash talk have a place in the 21st Century political arena.

We're done.


@Cyber Liberty   Is this guy a family friend?

[roamer_1]

Agree,  And yet the Roe v Wade decision stands. 

Because Republicans are lying sacks of sh*t. Don't go on like it is good law.

[Hoodat]

Only if Hairy Reid, the Two Eyed Senate Majority (Less One) Leader allowed that.   The future One-Eyed Man did not so permit.

You clearly do not understand the reconciliation rules.  Any Senator can propose amendments which must be read on the Senate floor by that Senator.  How long do you think it would take someone to read a 20,000 page amendment?

[Right_in_Virginia]

Because Republicans are lying sacks of sh*t. Don't go on like it is good law.

I've never said it was a good decision. 

[Hoodat]

I've never said it was a good decision.

Adhering to the Constitution is more important than how people feel about Roe.  And defending the Constitution is more important than political expedience.

[Cyber Liberty]

IMHO actually dumping RINOs would be the greatest attractant to the GOP in 100 years but SERIOUSLY doubt it will ever happen because the PTB doesn't want it to happen.

And, the republic is now dead as a post so it doesn't matter anyway.

Should we dump the good conservatives who run for office as Republicans?  There is a lot of talk on this thread about all Republicans being scoundrels.  It's as if only third party candidates should be considered.

[Cyber Liberty]

@Cyber Liberty   Is this guy a family friend?

Never heard of him before he signed up, and I've never been to the town he's posting from.   

[sneakypete]

You should learn something about wisdom and grace.

Agree,  And yet the Roe v Wade decision stands.  As a nation of laws, it matters little that the SC is a political body and not perfect.

@Right_in_Virginia

And there it is.

I am personally opposed to abortion after the 2nd month unless the mother's life is in genuine danger if she carries to term,but I wouldn't dream of telling a woman she couldn't have one if she felt like that was what she needed to do.

Don't get me wrong,I would PERSONALLY like to see the very tiny minority of "whymen libbers" who use abortion as a birth control method and political statement put on trial for murder,but I realize it will never happen.

I am so personally opposed to abortion I once offered to marry a young woman friend of mine that was going to have an abortion because she accidentally got pregnant by a guy she was deeply in love with,and he told her he wanted nothing to do with a baby and to get rid of it.  She had the abortion anyhow,but it wasn't long ago that she told me she regrets it almost every day and has never forgotten and is still grateful of my attempt to save her from this grief.

BTW,this was not going to be a real marriage. Just a marriage to give the baby a legal name and give her some cover if her religious family somehow heard about her pregnancy. We would have gotten divorced right after she gave the baby up for adoption. This was back in the days before women started bragging about how many abortions they had been through.

We can,and should,try to offer them help if they want it,but we have no right to TELL them what to do on an issue that big and that personal UNLESS we are the fathers and are willing to take full responsibility for the expenses leading up to birth,and the total care of the baby after the birth happens. Since no female in all of history has ever gotten pregnant by herself,the father should have a legal say if he is willing to accept full financial and child raising responsibility.

[Hoodat]

One's opinion on abortion has zero bearing on the Constitutionality of Roe.

If Congress wants to step in and pass a federal law regarding abortion, then they have that right.  But since they have been unwilling to do so because of political cowardice, then that decision defaults to the States.

[Cyber Liberty]

One's opinion on abortion has zero bearing on the Constitutionality of Roe.

If Congress wants to step in and pass a federal law regarding abortion, then they have that right.  But since they have been unwilling to do so because of political cowardice, then that decision defaults to the States.

Which is where it was in the first place, until SCOTUS decided to fix it one and for all. See all the tranquility that created? How it took politics out of it?