The Idea Of Secession Isn't Going Away

[bilo]

At this juncture, sober minds would stop pretending this country can remain united. Americans would be wise to not dismiss separatism just because their history textbooks said it's illegal, racist, or treasonous. Instead, they should recognize it as a tool that could save a lot of headaches and even lives. The hyperpolarized state of American politics is not going anywhere, and can only become more heated as America’s social fabric deteriorates and politics become more divisive. Whatever civic glue held Americans together in the twentieth century has been rapidly withering away in recent decades.

Regardless of the prudence of such mob action, the aftermath of the Capitol rush stood out as a masks-off moment of the highest order. Those who may share disagreements on a number of political issues are no longer treated as fellow Americans, but rather as enemies with malicious intentions whose behavior must be corrected through a combination of state and corporate power. For the haughtiest mouthpieces of the current therapeutic regime, Trump supporters are the perfect test subjects for the experiments to deprogram Middle Americans of their recalcitrant behavior, better known as rejecting the corporate media’s narrative.

The battle lines have been clearly drawn, and sober minds would recognize that any return to previous eras of normalcy in America is a fleeting fantasy. Talk of secession from the likes of Texas Republican Party chairman Allen West and longtime conservative shock jock Rush Limbaugh may come off as partisan chest pounding, but more fundamentally it personifies a vestigial desire for self-governance. As I wrote in 2019, even standard conservative commentators are entertaining the idea of a national divorce.

https://www.zerohedge.com/political/idea-secession-isnt-going-away

[bilo]

The article isn't to long and gives a nice history of secessionist movements in USA history.

[Hoodat]

Related:

Secession Is A Radical Solution That Sadly Doesn’t Seem So Radical Any More

[Elderberry]

The Idea of Secession Isn't Going Away

MisesInstitute by José Niño 02/22/2021

https://mises.org/wire/idea-secession-isnt-going-away

Secession is a four-letter word for the millions of Americans who have gone through the conventional educational pipeline that teaches them that the American state is indivisible and sacrosanct.

However, intellectually honest historians whose minds haven’t been warped by educational institutions know better than to dismiss secessionism as some nefarious activity that only treasonous Southerners of the Confederacy are capable of engaging in.

For all intents and purposes, the founding generation was secessionist. When they signed on to the Declaration of Independence, those who fomented the American Revolution were committed to liberating themselves from the grasp of the British Empire. Quite arguably the most important act of secession in human history, the revolutionaries' successful efforts to secede from British rule had the whole world awestruck.

More importantly, it cemented the idea of political separation in the American political consciousness. Before becoming a state, Vermont went the extra mile after the thirteen colonies declared their independence, breaking free from New York and Great Britain and establishing itself as an independent republic in 1777. It would remain that way until 1791, when it ratified the US Constitution and joined the union.

Even during the ratification of the Constitution, many states feared the idea of a government that would become excessively centralized. So they had secessionist backup plans in case things got out of hand. In the Politically Incorrect Guide to American History, Tom Woods touched on how the New York, Rhode Island, and Virginia “explicitly reserved during the ratification of the Constitution the right to withdraw from the Union should it become oppressive.”

[libertybele]

The  first paragraph of the Declaration of Independence specifically defines exactly why secession is an avenue to consider:

When in the Course of human events, it becomes necessary for one people to dissolve the political bands which have connected them with another, and to assume among the powers of the earth, the separate and equal station to which the Laws of Nature and of Nature’s God entitle them, a decent respect to the opinions of mankind requires that they should declare the causes which impel them to the separation.

[Sled Dog]

Montana isn't a colony of the US.

Neither is California.

How about if the Americans in both places start to freakin' FIGHT the Rodents rather than hiding under their beds and hoping they won't be found?

[Bigun]

During the Philadelphia convention, a proposal was made to permit the federal government to suppress a seceding state. James Madison, the Father of the Constitution, rejected it. Minutes from the debate paraphrased his opinion: “A union of the states containing such an ingredient [would] provide for its own destruction. The use of force against a state would look more like a declaration of war than an infliction of punishment and would probably be considered by the party attacked as a dissolution of all previous compacts by which it might be bound.”

During the ratification debates, Virginia’s delegates said, “The powers granted under the Constitution being derived from the people of the United States may be resumed by them whensoever the same shall be perverted to their injury or oppression.” The ratification documents of New York and Rhode Island expressed similar sentiments; namely, they held the right to dissolve their relationship with the United States.

[bilo]

Related:

Secession Is A Radical Solution That Sadly Doesn’t Seem So Radical Any More

So we have a circumstance where citizens go to the polls only to watch those votes stolen.  They then petition the nation’s highest court for redress and are rebuffed.  As they watch the cabal who perpetrated the theft work to institutionalize the very tools with which they purloined the election in the first place, what are citizens who revere the Constitution and love liberty supposed to do?

Good read.

[bilo]

During the Philadelphia convention, a proposal was made to permit the federal government to suppress a seceding state. James Madison, the Father of the Constitution, rejected it. Minutes from the debate paraphrased his opinion: “A union of the states containing such an ingredient [would] provide for its own destruction. The use of force against a state would look more like a declaration of war than an infliction of punishment and would probably be considered by the party attacked as a dissolution of all previous compacts by which it might be bound.”

During the ratification debates, Virginia’s delegates said, “The powers granted under the Constitution being derived from the people of the United States may be resumed by them whensoever the same shall be perverted to their injury or oppression.” [/color]The ratification documents of New York and Rhode Island expressed similar sentiments; namely, they held the right to dissolve their relationship with the United States.

It's obvious to me we are no longer a united people. We are two different people. I have no desire to subjugate the leftists among us when we win back the House, Senate and Presidency. Instead, I would be happy to let the leftists go their way as long as I can find a home where the Judeo-Christian values this country was founded on are preeminent.

[Fishrrman]

My solution, posted earlier this evening:
http://www.gopbriefingroom.com/index.php/topic,430334.msg2389782.html#msg2389782

[libertybele]

It's obvious to me we are no longer a united people. We are two different people. I have no desire to subjugate the leftists among us when we win back the House, Senate and Presidency. Instead, I would be happy to let the leftists go their way as long as I can find a home where the Judeo-Christian values this country was founded on are preeminent.

How do you propose that the GOP (that's whom I'm assuming you're referring to) will win back the majority in all Houses? The DEMS are already starting to change voter ID laws, election rules, granting amnesty, allowing a massive influx of illegals, etc.

[Idiot]

Like in the movie ...the republican party is dead...it just doesn't know it yet.

[Hoodat]

The DEMS are already starting to change voter ID laws, election rules, granting amnesty, allowing a massive influx of illegals, etc.

While the Republicans continue to do nothing to stop it.

[bilo]

How do you propose that the GOP (that's whom I'm assuming you're referring to) will win back the majority in all Houses? The DEMS are already starting to change voter ID laws, election rules, granting amnesty, allowing a massive influx of illegals, etc.

You're right I was assuming the Pub party, directed by Trump!, will win big. I am hoping in this case that the States have been able to straighten out their elections.

[bilo]

While the Republicans continue to do nothing to stop it.

I believe GA., just passed voter ID. Also, there is a case going to the SCOTUS about ballot harvesting. All is not lost yet.

[Hoodat]

I believe GA., just passed voter ID. Also, there is a case going to the SCOTUS about ballot harvesting. All is not lost yet.

Georgia already has a voter ID law as well as a law against ballot harvesting.  They need to eliminate absentee voting and replace it with in-person voting up to 3 months in advance.  (Not the same as early voting)  If a person can't make it to the polls on election day (or during early voting), then they can show up at the county office any time within 90 days before election day and cast a ballot in person just like they would on election day.  No more mail-in ballots period.  Exception - Military:  Provision made through State National Guard to secure ballots through applicable armed services chain of command from military bases.  Exception - Expats:  Ballots submitted in person at American Embassy.

For both exceptions, State must be notified in advance that ballots will be submitted this way so that applicant's name can be marked off as having already voted.

[christian]

This is the anarchy and revolt thew democrats have worked so hard for to bring the nation to destruction.. It was laid out clear enough last election.  With lies and false promises they told us it was going to be alright when the evil Trump was defeated.  Of, course they LIED, it's what the pretender forces of wickedness do.  So few were willing to hear at election time, except they were willing to hear the lies of the wicked.  Never Trumpers won, and the lie that the democrats winning would make things betteror didn't matter, are clear as day as deceits to Pied Piper the nation onto the path to destruction.
Did you do your part?

All that's needed for the wicked to win, is for good men to do nothing.  Like a heavy stone around the neck.

[Sled Dog]

Georgia already has a voter ID law as well as a law against ballot harvesting.  They need to eliminate absentee voting and replace it with in-person voting up to 3 months in advance.  (Not the same as early voting)  If a person can't make it to the polls on election day (or during early voting), then they can show up at the county office any time within 90 days before election day and cast a ballot in person just like they would on election day.  No more mail-in ballots period.  Exception - Military:  Provision made through State National Guard to secure ballots through applicable armed services chain of command from military bases.  Exception - Expats:  Ballots submitted in person at American Embassy.

For both exceptions, State must be notified in advance that ballots will be submitted this way so that applicant's name can be marked off as having already voted.

No.

They need to make voting something that happens on Election DAY.   Not Election Week, or Election Season, or even Election Year.

Election DAY.

If someone can't make to the polls on Election Day, too bad for them, they should have prioritized their life a little differently, or at least shut up about what losers they are.

[sneakypete]

No.

They need to make voting something that happens on Election DAY.   Not Election Week, or Election Season, or even Election Year.

Election DAY.

If someone can't make to the polls on Election Day, too bad for them, they should have prioritized their life a little differently, or at least shut up about what losers they are.

@Sled Dog

While I didn't think it was right for people in the military to vote while I was in the military and there was a war going on (conflict of interest),I  understand why most people disagreed/disagree with me on this.

It's clear that you are opposed to people serving in the military being allowed to cast absentee ballots,but an argument CAN be made that there should be exceptions for the ones serving on ships,in foreign countries,or on training missions on election day,who just can't make it to vote because they are answering the call of duty.

[jafo2010]

Secession is an option, but one that should be reluctantly taken.  Our senior population may well get hurt with secession.  I could see major changes in Social Security should secession take place.  A lot of seniors in red states.

[sneakypete]

Secession is an option, but one that should be reluctantly taken.  Our senior population may well get hurt with secession.  I could see major changes in Social Security should secession take place.  A lot of seniors in red states.

@jafo2010

LOTS of people would get hurt.

It is not a move that should be considered lightly. I only see it happening if the Feral Goobermint gets so far out of hand there is no other option.

And let's face it,once we become a part of "World Wide Government,Inc",do you REALLY think the board is going to allow social security payments to the peons,when they can keep that money for themselves? Remember,THEY didn't guarantee it would be paid. Those and other promises,like veterans benefits including retirement,were offered by a government that would by then be extinct.

Clean slate,and all dat.

[IsailedawayfromFR]

Secession is an option, but one that should be reluctantly taken.  Our senior population may well get hurt with secession.  I could see major changes in Social Security should secession take place.  A lot of seniors in red states.

I do not see the issue.

Social Security has no money, and is paid out by wages taken from current workers.

Any separation by a state that secedes means less money taken in by citizens who remain within the US, but there are also less recipients to receive checks.

And within the state that secedes, all one has to do is direct what workers were paying into the federal SS instead into a new state SS so the current SS recipients would continue receiving the benefits.

And we have been told ad nauseum that there is not debt within SS due to the trillions in IOUs lockbox, so there those that remain in the Union can open it up when needed to fund their future.

[Hoodat]

I do not see the issue.

Social Security has no money, and is paid out by wages taken from current workers.

Any separation by a state that secedes means less money taken in by citizens who remain within the US, but there are also less recipients to receive checks.

And within the state that secedes, all one has to do is direct what workers were paying into the federal SS instead into a new state SS so the current SS recipients would continue receiving the benefits.

And we have been told ad nauseum that there is not debt within SS due to the trillions in IOUs lockbox, so there those that remain in the Union can open it up when needed to fund their future.

Spot on.

[bilo]

FWIW, I would give up my Social Security benefits if I could live in a free country. If this means I would have to work it's okay with me. Freedom from leftist tyranny is more important to me.

[sneakypete]

FWIW, I would give up my Social Security benefits if I could live in a free country. If this means I would have to work it's okay with me. Freedom from leftist tyranny is more important to me.

@bilo

Many of us don't have that option because we are unable to work. Or do much of anything else most days.

BTW,I would have never stopped working if I had that option. I flat loved working. Even menial jobs,and that seems to be the case with most of the people I know. Yeah,we ALL loved some jobs and hated others,but we all LOVED having jobs.