Author Topic: Natural Gas Market Chaos Continues as Texas Governor Bans Producers From Selling Outside State  (Read 3366 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Offline thackney

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 12,267
  • Gender: Male
Natural Gas Market Chaos Continues as Texas Governor Bans Producers From Selling Outside State
https://www.naturalgasintel.com/natural-gas-market-chaos-continues-as-texas-governor-bans-producers-from-selling-outside-state/
February 17, 2021

The fallout of the prolonged Arctic freeze that’s draped over the central United States and into Texas is still unfolding, with a temporary ban on gas exports out of the Lone Star State the latest development in the ongoing crisis.

Hours before the surprising announcement, steep decreases in production and large swings in demand fueled Nymex gas futures prices for a second day. Facing what potentially could be the largest storage withdrawal of the winter so far, the March Nymex natural gas futures contract settled Wednesday at $3.219, up 9.0 cents from Tuesday’s close. April picked up 4.9 cents to $3.032.

Action in the cash markets remained volatile midweek as Oklahoma added another digit to next-day prices, while prices in other parts of the country also started to tack on more meaningful gains than in recent days. However, other areas tumbled in dramatic fashion, helping to send NGI’s Spot Gas National Avg. down $40.135 to $40.625.

The energy crisis in Texas is far from contained, with additional prolonged power outages implemented across the state early Wednesday as temperatures remained not far above freezing. The state’s electric grid operator, the Electric Reliability Council of Texas, said some 185 generating units have tripped offline for one reason or another amid the unprecedented freeze. Until more generation comes back online, power restoration efforts would be hampered....
Life is fragile, handle with prayer

Offline IsailedawayfromFR

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 18,746
Watch Biden begin flexing his muscles by forcing Texas to export Texas produced gas.

We will see an escalating battle of wills develop, guaranteed.

And I do hope Texans tune in on the burdensome over-reach by the feds on Texas sovereignty.
No punishment, in my opinion, is too great, for the man who can build his greatness upon his country's ruin~  George Washington

Offline thackney

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 12,267
  • Gender: Male
Why does Abbott get to tell a South Texas Gas company they cannot fulfill the contracts to supply gas to Florida because West Texas Gas companies do not do enough to protect their wells and gas plants against cold weather?

Government over-reach once again.
Life is fragile, handle with prayer

Offline Sled Dog

  • The Ultimate Weapon: Freedom - I Won't
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 3,138
Texas does not have the authority to regulate (ban) interstate sales of natural gas.

The control of interstate commerce is a power granted exclusively to the Congress of the United States under Article I, Section 8 of the Constitution.  No way such a ban by Abbott could survive in federal court.


Look at it another way.

The gas companies own the gas they take from the wells.  The state government wants to forbid them from selling the product outside the state.

Let's say the fascists get away with this.

What then, with this precedent, exists to stop California from preventing people who sell their homes to flee from using those funds to buy property in another state?   

« Last Edit: February 18, 2021, 04:02:27 am by Sled Dog »
The GOP is not the party leadership.  The GOP is the party MEMBERSHIP.   The members need to kick the leaders out if they leaders are going the wrong way.  No coddling allowed.

Offline Smokin Joe

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 56,600
  • I was a "conspiracy theorist". Now I'm just right.
Watch Biden begin flexing his muscles by forcing Texas to export Texas produced gas.

We will see an escalating battle of wills develop, guaranteed.

And I do hope Texans tune in on the burdensome over-reach by the feds on Texas sovereignty.
Green energy is a boondoggle based on "science". Like Lysenkoism did with agriculture in the Soviet Union, the Green New Deal will do with energy, and the Next Holdomor will be over BTUs and Killowatts, not grain.
How God must weep at humans' folly! Stand fast! God knows what he is doing!
Seventeen Techniques for Truth Suppression

Of all tyrannies, a tyranny sincerely exercised for the good of its victims may be the most oppressive. It would be better to live under robber barons than under omnipotent moral busybodies. The robber baron's cruelty may sometimes sleep, his cupidity may at some point be satiated; but those who torment us for our own good will torment us without end for they do so with the approval of their own conscience.

C S Lewis

Online Cyber Liberty

  • Coffee! Donuts! Kittens!
  • Administrator
  • ******
  • Posts: 80,063
  • Gender: Male
  • 🌵🌵🌵
Texas does not have the authority to regulate (ban) interstate sales of natural gas.

The control of interstate commerce is a power granted exclusively to the Congress of the United States under Article I, Section 8 of the Constitution.  No way such a ban by Abbott could survive in federal court.


Look at it another way.

The gas companies own the gas they take from the wells.  The state government wants to forbid them from selling the product outside the state.

Let's say the fascists get away with this.

What then, with this precedent, exists to stop California from preventing people who sell their homes to flee from using those funds to buy property in another state?

I'm with you:  It's blatantly unconstitutional.
For unvaccinated, we are looking at a winter of severe illness and death — if you’re unvaccinated — for themselves, their families, and the hospitals they’ll soon overwhelm. Sloe Joe Biteme 12/16
I will NOT comply.
 
Castillo del Cyber Autonomous Zone ~~~~~>                          :dontfeed:

Offline thackney

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 12,267
  • Gender: Male
I'm with you:  It's blatantly unconstitutional.

I expect it is going to be ignored.  I hope it will be.

I do not expect gas pipelines to suddenly shut down at the borders.
Life is fragile, handle with prayer

Online Bigun

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 51,496
  • Gender: Male
  • Resistance to Tyrants is Obedience to God
    • The FairTax Plan
I'm with you:  It's blatantly unconstitutional.

And one more HUGE black mark on Abbott's ledger.
"I wish it need not have happened in my time," said Frodo.

"So do I," said Gandalf, "and so do all who live to see such times. But that is not for them to decide. All we have to decide is what to do with the time that is given us."
- J. R. R. Tolkien

Offline catfish1957

  • Laken Riley.... Say her Name. And to every past and future democrat voter- Her blood is on your hands too!!!
  • Political Researcher
  • *****
  • Posts: 31,432
  • Gender: Male
And one more HUGE black mark on Abbott's ledger.

Man's gone off the rails in a criisis.
I display the Confederate Battle Flag in honor of my great great great grandfathers who spilled blood at Wilson's Creek and Shiloh.  5 others served in the WBTS with honor too.

Online Bigun

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 51,496
  • Gender: Male
  • Resistance to Tyrants is Obedience to God
    • The FairTax Plan
Man's gone off the rails in a criisis.

IMHO his handling of the pandemic has been horrific and now this.  **nononono*

I shudder to think where we would be if we didn't have Ken Paxton right now.
« Last Edit: February 18, 2021, 04:26:46 pm by Bigun »
"I wish it need not have happened in my time," said Frodo.

"So do I," said Gandalf, "and so do all who live to see such times. But that is not for them to decide. All we have to decide is what to do with the time that is given us."
- J. R. R. Tolkien

Offline Fishrrman

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 35,521
  • Gender: Male
  • Dumbest member of the forum
thackney complains:
"Why does Abbott get to tell a South Texas Gas company they cannot fulfill the contracts to supply gas to Florida because West Texas Gas companies do not do enough to protect their wells and gas plants against cold weather?"

Frankly a good move by Abbott. It should be politically popular as well.

When your state is literally starving for natural gas, you DO NOT permit producers to sell and export it OUT-of-state.

You keep it "in-house" and "take care of your own" first.

That's called... old-fashioned common sense.

Addendum:
When the emergency is over, then (of course) restore "the status quo".
But when Texans are freezin' because the fuel that would keep them warm and keep the lights on is being "exported out of state", NOT to do what Abbott is trying to do is... well, it's just plain nuts...
« Last Edit: February 18, 2021, 11:21:01 pm by Fishrrman »

Offline roamer_1

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 43,677
I will fall on the side of taking care of your own first, especially in an emergency. We have two major dams right here in the valley, and should have no problems getting power. And DIDN'T until governor Rasciot (R) changed state law to offer that power to the grid first, driving the cost of local power up by double. Which put the aluminum plant out of business too, btw.

Online Cyber Liberty

  • Coffee! Donuts! Kittens!
  • Administrator
  • ******
  • Posts: 80,063
  • Gender: Male
  • 🌵🌵🌵
I will fall on the side of taking care of your own first, especially in an emergency. We have two major dams right here in the valley, and should have no problems getting power. And DIDN'T until governor Rasciot (R) changed state law to offer that power to the grid first, driving the cost of local power up by double. Which put the aluminum plant out of business too, btw.

Yabbut...pandering is still pandering. He knows he cannot fulfill a promise like that.
For unvaccinated, we are looking at a winter of severe illness and death — if you’re unvaccinated — for themselves, their families, and the hospitals they’ll soon overwhelm. Sloe Joe Biteme 12/16
I will NOT comply.
 
Castillo del Cyber Autonomous Zone ~~~~~>                          :dontfeed:

Offline RetBobbyMI

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2,543
  • Gender: Male
Texas does not have the authority to regulate (ban) interstate sales of natural gas.

The control of interstate commerce is a power granted exclusively to the Congress of the United States under Article I, Section 8 of the Constitution.  No way such a ban by Abbott could survive in federal court.

...

What then, with this precedent, exists to stop California from preventing people who sell their homes to flee from using those funds to buy property in another state?

It ain't interstate commerce until it crosses state lines.  So Abbott is protecting state resources and Texas citizens.

No one cares about Califorina's problems.
"Life is tough, but it's tougher when you're stupid."  -- John Wayne
"Talk sense to a fool and he calls you foolish.� ? Euripides, The Bacchae
"Sometimes I wonder whether the world is being run by smart people who are putting us on or by imbeciles who really mean it.� ? Laurence J. Peter, The Peter Principle
"A stupid man's report of what a clever man says can never be accurate, because he unconsciously translates what he hears into something he can understand.� ? Bertrand Russell, A History of Western Philosophy

Online Cyber Liberty

  • Coffee! Donuts! Kittens!
  • Administrator
  • ******
  • Posts: 80,063
  • Gender: Male
  • 🌵🌵🌵
It ain't interstate commerce until it crosses state lines.  So Abbott is protecting state resources and Texas citizens.

No one cares about Califorina's problems.

The physical product hasn't crossed state lines yet, but the contracts sure did.
For unvaccinated, we are looking at a winter of severe illness and death — if you’re unvaccinated — for themselves, their families, and the hospitals they’ll soon overwhelm. Sloe Joe Biteme 12/16
I will NOT comply.
 
Castillo del Cyber Autonomous Zone ~~~~~>                          :dontfeed:

Offline thackney

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 12,267
  • Gender: Male
thackney complains:
"Why does Abbott get to tell a South Texas Gas company they cannot fulfill the contracts to supply gas to Florida because West Texas Gas companies do not do enough to protect their wells and gas plants against cold weather?"

Frankly a good move by Abbott. It should be politically popular as well.

When your state is literally starving for natural gas, you DO NOT permit producers to sell and export it OUT-of-state.

You keep it "in-house" and "take care of your own" first.

That's called... old-fashioned common sense.

Addendum:
When the emergency is over, then (of course) restore "the status quo".
But when Texans are freezin' because the fuel that would keep them warm and keep the lights on is being "exported out of state", NOT to do what Abbott is trying to do is... well, it's just plain nuts...

In general, I am against government takeover of private property regardless of much the public thinks they need it.  I am shocked at those that call themselves conservatives that think differently.

This is literally punishing those that prepared for the cold to support those that did not. 
Life is fragile, handle with prayer

Offline IsailedawayfromFR

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 18,746
In general, I am against government takeover of private property regardless of much the public thinks they need it.  I am shocked at those that call themselves conservatives that think differently.

This is literally punishing those that prepared for the cold to support those that did not.

I used to work under the Jimmy Carter regime in which he forced companies to declare gas reserves flowing into interstate markets to be forevermore dedicated to interstate markets, a truly evil 'taking' from individuals and companies.

As most price controls went, this distorted the market tremendously as the interstate gas could not be sold more than 59 cents per mcf, whereas intrastate gas markets commanded well over 2 dollars per mcf.

It was a terrible perversion that forced Texans to produce their gas and sell it to other states cheaply when Texans had to pay at the same time horrific gas prices to heat their own homes.

We older Texans recall these days and developed the adage "Let them freeze in the dark".

And we remember the mistreatment we had at the hands of the feds and will not forget it.

So no, I reject the premise that in times of trials like now, it is an over-reach to protect our own first and foremost rather than trying to make the biggest buck one can make.

If a company wishes to conduct business in Texas and to extract the resources within our state, it is a priority that Texans are accommodated before that company's shareholders.  For those that do not like those terms, seek out adventures in other states.
« Last Edit: February 19, 2021, 02:23:08 am by IsailedawayfromFR »
No punishment, in my opinion, is too great, for the man who can build his greatness upon his country's ruin~  George Washington

Online Cyber Liberty

  • Coffee! Donuts! Kittens!
  • Administrator
  • ******
  • Posts: 80,063
  • Gender: Male
  • 🌵🌵🌵
I used to work under the Jimmy Carter regime in which he forced companies to declare gas reserves flowing into interstate markets to be forevermore dedicated to interstate markets, a truly evil 'taking' from individuals and companies.

As most price controls went, this distorted the market tremendously as the interstate gas could not be sold more than 59 cents per mcf, whereas intrastate gas markets commanded well over 2 dollars per mcf.

It was a terrible perversion that forced Texans to produce their gas and sell it to other states cheaply when Texans had to pay at the same time horrific gas prices to heat their own homes.

We older Texans recall these days and developed the adage "Let them freeze in the dark".

And we remember the mistreatment we had at the hands of the feds and will not forget it.

So no, I reject the premise that in times of trials like now, it is an over-reach to protect our own first and foremost rather than trying to make the biggest buck one can make.

If a company wishes to conduct business in Texas and to extract the resources within our state, it is a priority that Texans are accommodated before that company's shareholders.  For those that do not like those terms, seek out adventures in other states.

People tend to forget there were two periods of massive lines to get gas in the 70's.  In '73 it was the war over Israel and the Arab oil embargo, but there was another time of gas lines, in the late 70's when Carter really screwed up the oil economy with his commie price controls.  Nixon was bad that way too, but not just oil.  Remember his "price freezes?"  They devastated the economy, not to mention "Whip Inflation Now!" by Ford.  As if waving a pom-pon and wearing a button would chase that icky inflation away.

« Last Edit: February 19, 2021, 02:33:13 am by Cyber Liberty »
For unvaccinated, we are looking at a winter of severe illness and death — if you’re unvaccinated — for themselves, their families, and the hospitals they’ll soon overwhelm. Sloe Joe Biteme 12/16
I will NOT comply.
 
Castillo del Cyber Autonomous Zone ~~~~~>                          :dontfeed:

Offline roamer_1

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 43,677
Yabbut...pandering is still pandering. He knows he cannot fulfill a promise like that.

That ain't said. And it ain't either/or... I am not saying contracts cannot be honored.

Offline thackney

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 12,267
  • Gender: Male
I used to work under the Jimmy Carter regime in which he forced companies to declare gas reserves flowing into interstate markets to be forevermore dedicated to interstate markets, a truly evil 'taking' from individuals and companies.

As most price controls went, this distorted the market tremendously as the interstate gas could not be sold more than 59 cents per mcf, whereas intrastate gas markets commanded well over 2 dollars per mcf.

It was a terrible perversion that forced Texans to produce their gas and sell it to other states cheaply when Texans had to pay at the same time horrific gas prices to heat their own homes.

We older Texans recall these days and developed the adage "Let them freeze in the dark".

And we remember the mistreatment we had at the hands of the feds and will not forget it.

So no, I reject the premise that in times of trials like now, it is an over-reach to protect our own first and foremost rather than trying to make the biggest buck one can make.

If a company wishes to conduct business in Texas and to extract the resources within our state, it is a priority that Texans are accommodated before that company's shareholders.  For those that do not like those terms, seek out adventures in other states.

I still do not understand the belief that minerals, or any of its products, belong to others to dictate how they are used and not to the people that bought the mineral rights, paid the money to produce them, paid the money to get them ready for market.

Do you think you have a right to dictate what the farmer does with his topsoil because you live within the political borders?
Life is fragile, handle with prayer

Online Cyber Liberty

  • Coffee! Donuts! Kittens!
  • Administrator
  • ******
  • Posts: 80,063
  • Gender: Male
  • 🌵🌵🌵
Do you think you have a right to dictate what the farmer does with his topsoil because you live within the political borders?

EnvironMENTALists believe they can do exactly that.
For unvaccinated, we are looking at a winter of severe illness and death — if you’re unvaccinated — for themselves, their families, and the hospitals they’ll soon overwhelm. Sloe Joe Biteme 12/16
I will NOT comply.
 
Castillo del Cyber Autonomous Zone ~~~~~>                          :dontfeed:

Offline thackney

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 12,267
  • Gender: Male
People tend to forget there were two periods of massive lines to get gas in the 70's.  In '73 it was the war over Israel and the Arab oil embargo, but there was another time of gas lines, in the late 70's when Carter really screwed up the oil economy with his commie price controls.  Nixon was bad that way too, but not just oil.  Remember his "price freezes?"  They devastated the economy, not to mention "Whip Inflation Now!" by Ford.  As if waving a pom-pon and wearing a button would chase that icky inflation away.

There is no problem that people face, no matter how bad that problem is, that government, with the best intentiond, cannot make worse.

"The nine most terrifying words in the English language are: I'm from the Government, and I'm here to help. "
AUGUST 12, 1986
- Ronald Reagan
Life is fragile, handle with prayer

Offline thackney

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 12,267
  • Gender: Male
EnvironMENTALists believe they can do exactly that.

Yep, same mentality and thought process.
Life is fragile, handle with prayer

Offline IsailedawayfromFR

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 18,746
I still do not understand the belief that minerals, or any of its products, belong to others to dictate how they are used and not to the people that bought the mineral rights, paid the money to produce them, paid the money to get them ready for market.

Do you think you have a right to dictate what the farmer does with his topsoil because you live within the political borders?
I do not dispute that people who own or produce minerals should be free to do with them what they wish, with reservations.

Obvious reservations are selling them to terrorists or doing something else illegally with them.  Or undertaking operations deemed unsafe or hazardous to individuals, like a pollutant that can kill people. 

One other reservation that is important in the state of Texas:  These minerals are found here, in this state, and produced from this state, and must adhere to conditions imposed by this state.  There is not a country on the face of the earth which allows anybody in that country to mine and sell resources with impunity.

And since it is a Texas-sourced resource, this state has obligations to fulfill for its citizens first and foremost.  Free marketing of resources produced in Texas which diminishes the welfare of Texas citizens, such as selling gas to interstate markets when intrastate markets are starving for gas, is one of those obligations.  This state must protect its citizens from others making a buck off their misfortune.  And that is an absolute.
No punishment, in my opinion, is too great, for the man who can build his greatness upon his country's ruin~  George Washington

Online Cyber Liberty

  • Coffee! Donuts! Kittens!
  • Administrator
  • ******
  • Posts: 80,063
  • Gender: Male
  • 🌵🌵🌵
Yep, same mentality and thought process.

They all went to Bureaucrat University.  That's were they drill and bash all the common sense out of the pupils.
For unvaccinated, we are looking at a winter of severe illness and death — if you’re unvaccinated — for themselves, their families, and the hospitals they’ll soon overwhelm. Sloe Joe Biteme 12/16
I will NOT comply.
 
Castillo del Cyber Autonomous Zone ~~~~~>                          :dontfeed: