Author Topic: Gov. Abbott: Blame outages on power generators  (Read 1855 times)

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Offline IsailedawayfromFR

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Re: Gov. Abbott: Blame outages on power generators
« Reply #50 on: February 18, 2021, 07:55:15 pm »
About the PUCT

Mission of the Texas Public Utilities Commission:

We protect customers, foster competition, and promote high quality infrastructure.

What We Do:

The Public Utility Commission of Texas regulates the state's electric, telecommunication, and water and sewer utilities, implements respective legislation, and offers customer assistance in resolving consumer complaints.


I want to see a show of hands on how well this group performed its primary Mission on its website?

Any takers?
No punishment, in my opinion, is too great, for the man who can build his greatness upon his country's ruin~  George Washington

Offline txradioguy

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Re: Gov. Abbott: Blame outages on power generators
« Reply #51 on: February 18, 2021, 08:00:46 pm »
IIRC ERCOT has been involved in Texas energy production for 20 years.

Abbott has been governor for what 5 years now?

Who was governor in Texas 20 years ago?
The libs/dems of today are the Quislings of former years. The cowards who would vote a fraud into office in exchange for handouts from the devil.

Here lies in honored glory an American soldier, known but to God

THE ESTABLISHMENT IS THE PROBLEM...NOT THE SOLUTION

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Online corbe

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Re: Gov. Abbott: Blame outages on power generators
« Reply #52 on: February 18, 2021, 08:01:35 pm »
   Got power back this morning, the water is still off. I'll have to wait till they thaw, Saturday I suppose, to see if I have any broken pipes. snowing all day.
   Back on Topic, I don't blame Abbott, he inherited this shit from the 3 prior Administrations, in the workings for 26 years, just like Trump did.



"The Great Texas Wind Rush: How George Bush, Ann Richards, and a Bunch of Tinkerers Helped the Oil and Gas State Win the Race to Wind Power"
June 1, 2015
By Kate Galbraith and Asher Price
University of Texas Press, $16.72


Reviewed by BILL KOVARIK

Gold, oil and land rushes are such oversized legends in Texas that the initial image of a “wind rush” conjures a vision of Pecos Bill striding over the sagebrush prairie, planting rows of giant white whirligigs and leaving streams of glowing electrons in his wake.

Yet sometimes living legends are even more interesting. How in thunder would the politically far-flung panoply of Texas politicians and tycoons such as George W. Bush, Anne Richards and T. Boone Pickens agree on something as ephemeral as grabbing power out of thin air?

Kate Galbraith and Asher Price answer that question with a vividly crafted cross-section of the wind industry through biography, history and literary journalism.

<..snip..>

https://www.sej.org/publications/sejournal-sp2015/great-texas-wind-rush
No government in the 12,000 years of modern mankind history has led its people into anything but the history books with a simple lesson, don't let this happen to you.

Offline Bigun

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Re: Gov. Abbott: Blame outages on power generators
« Reply #53 on: February 18, 2021, 08:05:23 pm »
https://www.texastribune.org/2021/02/16/natural-gas-power-storm/

I have no dispute with what that article says. My question is sould we continue to operate that way in the future?

Perhaps the answer is to install some LNG storage near gas-powered generation plants.
« Last Edit: February 18, 2021, 08:07:51 pm by Bigun »
"I wish it need not have happened in my time," said Frodo.

"So do I," said Gandalf, "and so do all who live to see such times. But that is not for them to decide. All we have to decide is what to do with the time that is given us."
- J. R. R. Tolkien

Offline thackney

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Re: Gov. Abbott: Blame outages on power generators
« Reply #54 on: February 18, 2021, 08:08:43 pm »
IIRC ERCOT has been involved in Texas energy production for 20 years.

Abbott has been governor for what 5 years now?

Who was governor in Texas 20 years ago?

Just for reference to the discussion:

Founded in 1970, ERCOT is an independent, not-for-profit organization responsible for overseeing the reliable and safe transmission of electricity over the power grid serving most of Texas. As the Independent System Operator (ISO) since 1996, ERCOT has been the broker between competitive wholesale power buyers and sellers. The ERCOT ISO also provided the platform upon which Texas' electric utility industry made the transition to retail competition on Jan. 1, 2002.

http://www.ercot.com/news/mediakit/backgrounder
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Online catfish1957

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Re: Gov. Abbott: Blame outages on power generators
« Reply #55 on: February 18, 2021, 08:09:18 pm »


"The Great Texas Wind Rush: How George Bush, Ann Richards, and a Bunch of Tinkerers Helped the Oil and Gas State Win the Race to Wind Power"


Corbe...  What all our politicans did to allow West Texas, and the entire western U.S to be littered by these monstrocities is a crime by itself.
I display the Confederate Battle Flag in honor of my great great great grandfathers who spilled blood at Wilson's Creek and Shiloh.  5 others served in the WBTS with honor too.

Offline thackney

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Re: Gov. Abbott: Blame outages on power generators
« Reply #56 on: February 18, 2021, 08:10:55 pm »
I have no dispute with what that article says. My question is sould we continue to operate that way in the future?

Perhaps the answer is to install some LNG storage near gas-powered generation plants.

Massive cost associated with that.  Should it be state owned and operated?
Life is fragile, handle with prayer

Offline txradioguy

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Re: Gov. Abbott: Blame outages on power generators
« Reply #57 on: February 18, 2021, 08:14:26 pm »
Just for reference to the discussion:

Founded in 1970, ERCOT is an independent, not-for-profit organization responsible for overseeing the reliable and safe transmission of electricity over the power grid serving most of Texas. As the Independent System Operator (ISO) since 1996, ERCOT has been the broker between competitive wholesale power buyers and sellers. The ERCOT ISO also provided the platform upon which Texas' electric utility industry made the transition to retail competition on Jan. 1, 2002.

http://www.ercot.com/news/mediakit/backgrounder

Thanks.

It would appear that Governor Goodhair deserves some blame for this mess too.
The libs/dems of today are the Quislings of former years. The cowards who would vote a fraud into office in exchange for handouts from the devil.

Here lies in honored glory an American soldier, known but to God

THE ESTABLISHMENT IS THE PROBLEM...NOT THE SOLUTION

Republicans Don't Need A Back Bench...They Need a BACKBONE!

Offline Bigun

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Re: Gov. Abbott: Blame outages on power generators
« Reply #58 on: February 18, 2021, 08:14:52 pm »
Massive cost associated with that.  Should it be state owned and operated?

No! Just a thought off the top of my head.  The costs would be recovered over time IMHO.

If we want a truly reliable electrical grid in Texas we need to consider all the options and it would be nice if politics could be kept out of the discussion but definitely won't be.

Do you know if there is a cost per MW comparison of the various types of generation in Texas @thackney
« Last Edit: February 18, 2021, 08:25:39 pm by Bigun »
"I wish it need not have happened in my time," said Frodo.

"So do I," said Gandalf, "and so do all who live to see such times. But that is not for them to decide. All we have to decide is what to do with the time that is given us."
- J. R. R. Tolkien

Offline thackney

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Re: Gov. Abbott: Blame outages on power generators
« Reply #59 on: February 18, 2021, 08:30:09 pm »
Thanks.

It would appear that Governor Goodhair deserves some blame for this mess too.

The process to become an ISO began under Richards.

But I do not blame the existence for the ISO as the problem.
Life is fragile, handle with prayer

Offline thackney

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Re: Gov. Abbott: Blame outages on power generators
« Reply #60 on: February 18, 2021, 08:32:35 pm »
No! Just a thought off the top of my head.  The costs would be recovered over time IMHO.

If we want a truly reliable electrical grid in Texas we need to consider all the options and it would be nice if politics could be kept out of the discussion but definitely won't be.

Do you know if there is a cost per MW comparison of the various types of generation in Texas @thackney

Not specific to Texas, but cost comparison of the different types in the US.  Capital cost, Operations and Fuel all part of the equation.

https://www.eia.gov/outlooks/aeo/pdf/electricity_generation.pdf
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Offline txradioguy

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Re: Gov. Abbott: Blame outages on power generators
« Reply #61 on: February 18, 2021, 08:40:20 pm »
The process to become an ISO began under Richards.

But I do not blame the existence for the ISO as the problem.

I agree.
The libs/dems of today are the Quislings of former years. The cowards who would vote a fraud into office in exchange for handouts from the devil.

Here lies in honored glory an American soldier, known but to God

THE ESTABLISHMENT IS THE PROBLEM...NOT THE SOLUTION

Republicans Don't Need A Back Bench...They Need a BACKBONE!

Offline Bigun

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Re: Gov. Abbott: Blame outages on power generators
« Reply #62 on: February 18, 2021, 08:41:02 pm »
Not specific to Texas, but cost comparison of the different types in the US.  Capital cost, Operations and Fuel all part of the equation.

https://www.eia.gov/outlooks/aeo/pdf/electricity_generation.pdf

Thanks!  I'll take a look at it.
"I wish it need not have happened in my time," said Frodo.

"So do I," said Gandalf, "and so do all who live to see such times. But that is not for them to decide. All we have to decide is what to do with the time that is given us."
- J. R. R. Tolkien

Online roamer_1

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Re: Gov. Abbott: Blame outages on power generators
« Reply #63 on: February 18, 2021, 09:16:56 pm »
None of my business... But this conversation is interesting to me.

There is a certain normalcy bias at play here... Decades since the last big freeze, the appearance of normalcy tends to forget the past, and to some degree legitimately.

That is why multi-million dollar estates get built right on a hurricane coast. Somewhere in the back of your mind, the chances of disaster become slim as the decades march by... Always forgetting the tendency, nay prediction, that the disaster will certainly come again.

YES, Abbott's government got caught with their pants down. And no doubt the reflexive finger pointing would come naturally, as that normalcy bias left them as comfortably numb as everyone else.

Finger pointing in this is no different than the finger pointing after a massive hurricane - It's just that all y'all are used to hurricanes and the disaster they bring - And so is your government.

More to the point, as @thackney opined, Why aren't rough and ready Texans ready for it themselves? Be mad that the government was hapless in this, even as it was with the flooding. But in that case, it was largely your neighbors that picked up the slack, not the government.

What is to be mourned in this is the state of the Spirit of Texas - That rugged individualism that makes community help possible. The ability to stand on your own two feet and make yourself invulnerable, to the best as you can. Because those that are invulnerable are the ones that can help others, right there at the local level. THAT, my friends is what should be mourned and corrected.

Sure and the government has a role - To remove the strictures that prevent alt heat sources, and dissuade independence... to strengthen power distribution and sharing in the wake of this freeze.

Reverting back to that multi-million dollar estate built on a hurricane coast - It is normalcy that put it there. Maybe that is wrong, but it is predictable... It is not wrong to make the man well in the wake of disaster - be that by insurance or even public funds... but it is wrong to let him rebuild in the midst of making him well. Because that expense is doomed to be spent yet again. Literally it is doomed.

Likewise in this. But the thing that needs rebuilt, the thing that needs repair is that indomitable Texas Spirit and Faith... And what needs to be prevented and educated against is not the rebuilding of the multi-million dollar house - an example of (reliance on) government in this example - That is the thing that should not be allowed to be rebuilt again - leaving the citizens the wherewithal to stand for themselves. Inevitably.
« Last Edit: February 18, 2021, 09:29:15 pm by roamer_1 »

Offline thackney

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Re: Gov. Abbott: Blame outages on power generators
« Reply #64 on: February 18, 2021, 09:36:23 pm »
Decades since the last big freeze, the appearance of normalcy tends to forget the past, and to some degree legitimately.

Sadly, just a single decade with all the same problems, but not as widespread or as big of numbers.

Report on Outages and Curtailments During the Southwest Cold Weather Event of February 1-5, 2011
https://www.ferc.gov/sites/default/files/2020-04/08-16-11-report.pdf
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Offline thackney

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Re: Gov. Abbott: Blame outages on power generators
« Reply #65 on: February 18, 2021, 09:43:54 pm »
In times of disaster like these, I have far more faith in people in the community than in any government official.

Mattress Mack opens Gallery Furniture as shelter during winter storm
https://abc13.com/mattress-mack-gallery-furniture-store-opens-jim-mcingvale-winter-storm/10344483/

Quote
..."Rather than complain about what should have been done, let's just do things that are good for the community. Get people out here. Whether they want to stay for two hours until their power gets back on, or they want to stay for two days, we're here for the community," he said....
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Online roamer_1

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Re: Gov. Abbott: Blame outages on power generators
« Reply #66 on: February 18, 2021, 09:54:31 pm »
Sadly, just a single decade with all the same problems, but not as widespread or as big of numbers.

Report on Outages and Curtailments During the Southwest Cold Weather Event of February 1-5, 2011
https://www.ferc.gov/sites/default/files/2020-04/08-16-11-report.pdf

If it was thus in memory, why is it that Texans took no steps? A few 20 lb propane tanks and Buddy Heaters would cause this to have been of little consequence... A wood stove... something...

Forgive my preaching. It is just so simple to me. And I think folks need to look to themselves more than toward government. And hopefully, the next time the north heads south, y'all will all be just fine.

Online corbe

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Re: Gov. Abbott: Blame outages on power generators
« Reply #67 on: February 18, 2021, 10:08:53 pm »
If it was thus in memory, why is it that Texans took no steps? A few 20 lb propane tanks and Buddy Heaters would cause this to have been of little consequence... A wood stove... something...

Forgive my preaching. It is just so simple to me. And I think folks need to look to themselves more than toward government. And hopefully, the next time the north heads south, y'all will all be just fine.

   This drunk, stoned Ol Hippie survived on Natural Gas only.  I. too, wonder where that Texas Spirit has gone to.
No government in the 12,000 years of modern mankind history has led its people into anything but the history books with a simple lesson, don't let this happen to you.

Offline IsailedawayfromFR

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Re: Gov. Abbott: Blame outages on power generators
« Reply #68 on: February 18, 2021, 10:18:50 pm »
No! Just a thought off the top of my head.  The costs would be recovered over time IMHO.

If we want a truly reliable electrical grid in Texas we need to consider all the options and it would be nice if politics could be kept out of the discussion but definitely won't be.

Do you know if there is a cost per MW comparison of the various types of generation in Texas @thackney
A reliable grid would prioritize the most reliable means of producing electricity.

Those we talked about before and are headed by coal and nuclear.

Coal can pile up mountains of raw fuel immediately outside the plant which mitigates the issues of freezing and natural gas bottlenecks experienced by our current primary system of power production, natural gas, which almost always has pipelines involved.

Nuclear is simply close to perfect for sustaining deliveries during periods of cold weather.

Wind and solar are jokes for dependability.

When I lived in New England, fuel oil was the preferred choice for residential heating as it also could have oil 'stockpiled' in a 500 gal tank on your premises - same principal as coal. 

We don't use much in the way of fuel oil any more for power generation, but liquid methane(LNG) is a potential way to better ensure fuel feed occurs during emergencies.  We are certainly in the LNG business full throttle compared to years gone by.

No punishment, in my opinion, is too great, for the man who can build his greatness upon his country's ruin~  George Washington