Stop the Third Party Insanity

[LegalAmerican]

Given the highlighted portions, I now understand your self delusion regarding President Trump and the Dems agenda and tactics. You see, the Dems demonize EVERY strong conservative/Republican movement and personage...it doesn't matter if its Trump...or Limbaugh...or Reagan...or Brett Kavanaugh. They will use the media to tar and feather that person...or group in cases like the Tea Party...in hopes that conservatives and folks like yourself will then determine that such a group/person is now "radioactive". This is how they seek to kill any conservative movement that is not milque-toast and/or elitist in nature. The more their faux reality is at risk in the face of unapologetic conservatism...which IS Trump's branding...the more they freak out and use the media to make that person "canceled". In running away from President Trump...you are buying into the "cancel"...your reaction is EXACTLY what these people want and work for, and you are giving them just what they want. Useful idiot is the term, I believe.

The President did NOTHING improper and NOTHING that should be censured...or even disapproved of. He fought to expose fraud in the election and NEVER, EVER, NEVER called for anything but legal and reasonable action to address it. He called for peaceful protest, constitutional remedies and legal actions to redress this massive and unprecedented theft of an election...and that is all he did. A very small number of people rioted and overreacted...but not because of anything the President said or did...they responded out of outrage at the theft of an election. And the President himself condemned that overreaction.

That is the genuine narrative...you are simply echoing a deliberately false, planned, and media supported narrative put forward by Dems and NeverTrumper establishment types. Clearly, we need a "woke" moment on the Right in which folks like you who are blindly swallowing the MSM's version of events (which is quite literally nothing more than Dem propaganda), open their eyes and look at reality.

And let me add, unlike yourself, most Republicans and conservatives see through this baloney...we've seen this play before, and its not fooling anyone...well, almost anyone. The silver lining of all this garbage is that most on the Right now see who fights for them...and who is complicit with the Left's misinformation, lies and tyrannical tendencies. Most will no longer support the Cheney's, Portman's, Ducey's and other Quislings who ALWAYS sell out to the Left.

Excellent and right on!  Yes, that is a USEFUL IDIOT.  Never changes.

[Sled Dog]

woohoo.

So worried about bitchslapping and cat-fighting, when you should be worried about taking their power.
4 friggin years, and you've got nothing. Nothing but a big-ass bill.

I wish folks wouldn't get so distracted by the 'neener-neener' crap and demand some results for a change. Not only is the 12yr old mentality an embarrassment, but it is counter productive as well.

Who gives a sh*t if he can insult people. Insults are cheap.

RESULTS.

One man can only do so much.

Trump was supposed to have support from the lesser members of the GOP, like the trash in the House and Senate, the people he appointed, like Sessions and Barr.

He got no support.

We Americans know who to blame for this, and blame them.

We don't need a turd party, we need to throw out the trash.

[Mesaclone]

One man can only do so much.

Trump was supposed to have support from the lesser members of the GOP, like the trash in the House and Senate, the people he appointed, like Sessions and Barr.

He got no support.

We Americans know who to blame for this, and blame them.

We don't need a turd party, we need to throw out the trash.

REALLY well said.

[Bigun]

One man can only do so much.

Trump was supposed to have support from the lesser members of the GOP, like the trash in the House and Senate, the people he appointed, like Sessions and Barr.

He got no support.

We Americans know who to blame for this, and blame them.

We don't need a turd party, we need to throw out the trash.

   We desperately NEED to stop voting for the guy with the most money in our primaries!  There is a reason that guy has all that money!

[Sled Dog]

You don't win just because you win. The win happens when you get results.
You got nothing. Or nearly nothing. Except the bill. And the waste of four more years.
SOSDD.

Let's see.

The Ninth Circus Court of Appeals is now almost American.
Hundreds of miles of border wall.
No new wars.
No new wars.
No new wars.
Soaring economy.
Media outed for what they truly are, including Fox.
RINOs outed for what they truly are.
More than 75 million real voters for Trump.
Election fraud undeniably proven to exist.

Lots of accomplishments.

Too bad the election was stolen right in front of our noses and certain people want to pretend it didn't happen, though.

[Sled Dog]

No,  I can see clearly without blinders on.   I don't endorse the Dems'  exploitation of Trump to cancel his supporters,  but I certainly recognize it,  and can see how it tears friends and family apart.    That's how,  unfortunately,  these scumbags roll.  They fear honest debate.

But it doesn't take a partisan to see that what Trump did post-election - really, post-certification, as far as I'm concerned - was beyond the pale,  and the test for taking responsibility is to own up to events that, based on one's actions, were entirely foreseeable.   

There was no certification.   The term certification means that honest people judged that honest elections were conducted honestly.   Since the elections were defrauded, honest people could not claim the results are honest.

The election was stolen.

Which was entirely foreseeable given how treasonous the anti-trump whiners have always acted.

His rhetoric was harsh, reckless and demonizing.

So you never heard that female genitalia named Pelosi speak?  And you've never heard the FG Schumer speak, either?   What about the "Squad"?  Is there some rule that every GOP president has to be as limp as the Bushes and Romney?

I'm not "blindly swallowing" anything.   I am recognizing what I see - Dems determined to exploit Trump to cancel his supporters and distract from their agenda.   

That's a weird way of saying "defrauded the elections".

Trump didn't fight for you.   He fought for himself and fell victim to his own obsessions.   He accomplished great things as President.  Just about all of them are bound to be undone,  unless Republicans can fight for ideas and policies without the taint of disgrace.   An honest censure is not an exile to Elba.   It is a recognition that,  to keep the movement credible,  the extraordinary acts leading up to January 6 need to be called for what they are,  so they can be put behind us.

The disgrace is that they refused to contest the stolen elections.

Which is why they have to be replaced.

[Sled Dog]

Right. Said that all along. FINALLY had everything set for a TEA party principled win, and everybody goes running off to the loudmouth oaf bleating expletives instead. TEA Party became the bagholders on the way in, and Conservatives the bagholders on the way out... and the American people miked for tens of trillions...

good times, fer sher. 

What a dreamer.

The GOP primaries of 2016 were rigged to put JEB BUSH in the White House.   She would have lost and we would have been stuck with Presidentess Twitchy Drunky for eight years.

The Tea Party had already been made irrelevant by 2016 and remains so now.  The self-proclaimed elites in the GOP weren't going to allow Main Street hicks ruin their gravy train, just like we're not allowed to buy GME stock.

[Sled Dog]

Carry on then... SOSDD. And the dog will inevitably return to it's vomit. Normalcy bias will kick in, nothing will change. And the next 'real conservative' will do the same as always, throwing fiscal conservatives and libertarian conservatives under the bus... To great cheering as the crown gathers round to get the candy thrown by the clown at the front of the parade. All for nothing but another eventual belly ache.

Again.
Sommore.

"Fiscal conservatives" is another word for "liberals".

They claim to applaud the goals of the Rodents but don't want to pay for them.

Americans aren't hyphenated.

Neither are conservatives.

Got to get rid of the Hyphenates before the GOP can be repaired.   

[Sled Dog]

I am sorry you find me disagreeable.  I am trying express how I feel about where we are right now.    I think we have to stop playing the role the Dems want us to play.

The role the Rodents enjoy watching the most is when the GOP throws away and spits on it's single most unifying leader in the last 32 years.

The role you're playing.

[roamer_1]

One man can only do so much.

There is the exact reason this messianic bullcrap won't ever fly.

Trump was supposed to have support from the lesser members of the GOP, like the trash in the House and Senate, the people he appointed, like Sessions and Barr.

He got no support.

No... Support is earned. He ain't a damn king. The primary thing he utterly failed in was in building coalition... His trademark divisiveness prevented him more than anything else. When all you do is piss people off, is it any wonder that they won't listen to you?

We Americans know who to blame for this, and blame them.

We don't need a turd party, we need to throw out the trash.

Knock yourself out. 'We Americans' have been hearing that out of Republicans for decades.
Put up or shut up. The very populism that drives you denies you will. The lesser evil will appear and in fear, all y'all will vote anybody in... butts in the seats for gain against Democrats.

And libertarianism and fiscal conservatism lay again under the bus, just like ALWAYS.

Have at it. It ain't my party no more, and hasn't been since 07... I DID put up already. You can bet principle comes before party with me.

[Sled Dog]

The more the never Trumpers and the Trump intolerant demand no 3rd party, the better a 3rd party sounds.  Like democrats, they speak in opposites when giving advice, just like democrats do.

Actually, most of the real Trump supporters recognize the sheer idiocy of the third party movement.

One has to wonder who's pushing this third party nonsense when a simple scan of history shows that not only has no third party ever won the White House, it has almost always ensured the party that does not fracture takes the election.

Woodrow Wilson, Bill Clinton, GW Bush, all won the White House because splinter parties arose to divide the other candidate's base.

Or haven't you ever wondered why Ralphie Nader and Jill Stein are out of politics now?

[roamer_1]

"Fiscal conservatives" is another word for "liberals".

No... Fiscal Conservatism is a bonafide faction of Conservatism proper, and springs from Goldwater libertarianism.

They claim to applaud the goals of the Rodents but don't want to pay for them.

Bullcrap.

Americans aren't hyphenated.

Neither are conservatives.

Got to get rid of the Hyphenates before the GOP can be repaired.

The ones you seem to support sure are. Conservatism was not supported in Tump... And you seem to be defending that as conservatism... It is not.

As always, libertarianism and fiscal conservatism right under the bus... Just like every hyphenated 'conservatism' spouted by the moderate wing. No dang difference at all.

[skeeter]

Actually, most of the real Trump supporters recognize the sheer idiocy of the third party movement.

One has to wonder who's pushing this third party nonsense when a simple scan of history shows that not only has no third party ever won the White House, it has almost always ensured the party that does not fracture takes the election.

Woodrow Wilson, Bill Clinton, GW Bush, all won the White House because splinter parties arose to divide the other candidate's base.

Or haven't you ever wondered why Ralphie Nader and Jill Stein are out of politics now?

My hope for a third party is that it would not long be a third party.

I have not yet heard how the slugs and grifters currently infesting the GOP down to its roots can be dislodged. If they can be eradicated then the GOP has a chance.

[Bigun]

My hope for a third party is that it would not long be a third party.

I have not yet heard how the slugs and grifters currently infesting the GOP down to its roots can be dislodged. If they can be eradicated then the GOP has a chance.

STOP voting for them!  At ANY level!

[Sled Dog]

There is the exact reason this messianic bullcrap won't ever fly.

That guy from Kenya, he was annointed messiah by the media.

Trump was annointed Satan.

No... Support is earned.

You mean like when the President wins the election his party is supposed to dump him because they really wanted Hillary instead?

That kind of earning, hmmmm?

Trump was the PRESIDENT.   

The JOB of the President's PARTY is to support him and his agenda.   The House and Senate REFUSED the support Trump EARNED by winning the election.

Try to become rational about political realities.   Nobody cares about your feelz.

He ain't a damn king. The primary thing he utterly failed in was in building coalition...

How does one build a "coalition" when the opposition party starts out, BEFORE THE ELECTION OF 2016, setting up fake grounds for impeachment?  When they had offices in downtown LA proclaiming "not my president" and "resist" and the entirety of the media LYING EVERY DAY about him and his agenda?

Where was the effort by the Rodents to reach across the aisle...it's their job as the friggin' LOSERS to reach out....not the other way around...and find grounds for compromise?

No.  It was the job of the Republicans to be diamond hard in resistance to the Rodent agenda, for the Rodents have been plotting the overthrow of the Constitution since before the Civil War.

His trademark divisiveness prevented him more than anything else. When all yu do is piss people off, is it any wonder that they won't listen to you?

Trump pissed off the RINOs by beating Jeb! with a baseball bat.

Trump pissed off the Rodents by beating Drunken Hillary with an election. 

Is it any wonder he was sabotaged at every step because the elites hated him merely because he wasn't on the Gravy Train with them?

Knock yourself out. 'We Americans' have been hearing that out of Republicans for decades.
Put up or shut up. The very populism that drives you denies you will. The lesser evil will appear and ib fear, all y'all will vote anybody in... butts in the seats for gain against Democrats.

Populism.

You object to people liking what their candidates have to say.   You prefer it that the people themselves should have no say in who represents them and those candidates should be chosen by party elites in back-rooms where the hedge fund managers can pick and choose.

Populism is how America is SUPPOSED TO choose it's presidents.

But the immature are very happy that the Americans of 2020 were denied their choice of president by a gang of Rodents who defrauded the election and a gang of RINOs who refused to object to the steal.

And libertarianism and fiscal conservatism lay again under the bus, just like ALWAYS.

Libertarianism, REAL libertarianism, is doing just fine.   Too bad the Libertarian Party is an agent for the Rodents. 

And fiscal conservatives are liberals.

Have at it. It ain't my party no more, and hasn't been since 07... I DID put up already. You can bet principle comes before party with me.

So your principle is, similar to events in the early 1800's, the Do Nothing Party.

Cyber Note:  Fixed quote tags...

[Sled Dog]

My hope for a third party is that it would not long be a third party.

I have not yet heard how the slugs and grifters currently infesting the GOP down to its roots can be dislodged. If they can be eradicated then the GOP has a chance.

It's a tough love process.

Our biggest problem right now is the RINOs.  Not the Rodents, the RINOs, the traitors who presume that we will vote for them because they're not open Rodents.

So the path is clear.

If we fail to dislodge a RINO in the primary, then we vote for the Rodent in the general election to stop the RINO from profiting from his betrayal again.

Then in the next election we have a chance to select a real conservative in the primaries.

Eliminate the RINO career path.

To win more elections, we also have to convince true Americans to stop voting for the Libertarian Party.  They have become nothing but Rodent shills.  They are not a viable alternative to the Rodents and it's time people grew up and realized this.

[Bigun]

Our biggest problem right now is the RINOs.  Not the Rodents, the RINOs, the traitors who presume that we will vote for them because they're not open Rodents.

@Sled Dog

NO, it isn't!  Our biggest problem is a gigantic federal bureaucracy that is unaccountable to anyone! Until THAT is corrected it matters not a whit who we elect to any office.

[skeeter]

STOP voting for them!  At ANY level!

I get that. But many string pullers aren't running for anything.

[Bigun]

I get that. But many most string pullers aren't running for anything.

NOW we are getting somewhere!  (Fixed the above for ya!)

[MOD4]

Stop the personal snipping and sniping. TBR members are not the topic of this thread.

[Sled Dog]

@Sled Dog

NO, it isn't!  Our biggest problem is a gigantic federal bureaucracy that is unaccountable to anyone! Until THAT is corrected it matters not a whit who we elect to any office.

Oh.

That's right.

So....is St George going to take up armor and sword and hack at the bricks of the local court house, or are the Americans going to expel the traitors from their party so their party can get to work cutting the budgets and eliminating those useless bureaucracies?

Which plan has a chance of actually working?

The only way to cut back the government is to take back the party.

Oh, and I don't know of any government in history that's allowed it's bureaucracy to shrink.

Bureaucrats don't like when that happens.

[Bigun]

Oh.

That's right.

So....is St George going to take up armor and sword and hack at the bricks of the local court house, or are the Americans going to expel the traitors from their party so their party can get to work cutting the budgets and eliminating those useless bureaucracies?

Which plan has a chance of actually working?

The only way to cut back the government is to take back the party.

Oh, and I don't know of any government in history that's allowed it's bureaucracy to shrink.

Bureaucrats don't like when that happens.

The F'n GOP has been promising to reduce the size and scope of the FedGov for as long as I've been alive! Do you know who was president the last time that actually happened @Sled Dog ?  Never mind!  It was when Calvin Coolidge was president!

“No method of procedure has ever been devised by which liberty could be divorced from local self-government. No plan of centralization has ever been adopted which did not result in bureaucracy, tyranny, inflexibility, reaction, and decline. Of all forms of government, those administered by bureaus are about the least satisfactory to an enlightened and progressive people. Being irresponsible they become autocratic, and being autocratic they resist all development. Unless bureaucracy is constantly resisted it breaks down representative government and overwhelms democracy. It is the one element in our institutions that sets up the pretense of having authority over everybody and being responsible to nobody.”

President Calvin Coolidge, Address at the College of William and Mary, Williamsburg, Va., May 15, 1926

Pournelle's Iron Law of Bureaucracy

"In any bureaucracy, the people devoted to the benefit of the bureaucracy itself always get in control and those dedicated to the goals the bureaucracy is supposed to accomplish have less and less influence, and sometimes are eliminated entirely."

[roamer_1]

That guy from Kenya, he was annointed messiah by the media.

Trump was annointed Satan.

I don't give a crap about the media.

You mean like when the President wins the election his party is supposed to dump him because they really wanted Hillary instead?

That kind of earning, hmmmm?

I don't give a crap about the democrats.

Trump was the PRESIDENT.   

The JOB of the President's PARTY is to support him and his agenda.   

No, it is not. The party has three wings and numerous factions. Where the heck do you get the idea that they all bow to the President's will? it is the JOB of the President to seek alliances willing to move his agenda forward. Not the other way around. And he failed miserably at it.

The House and Senate REFUSED the support Trump EARNED by winning the election.

Try to become rational about political realities.   Nobody cares about your feelz.

I am perfectly rational - I know the president isn't king. It is you that seems to have illusions.

How does one build a "coalition" when the opposition party starts out, BEFORE THE ELECTION OF 2016, setting up fake grounds for impeachment?  When they had offices in downtown LA proclaiming "not my president" and "resist" and the entirety of the media LYING EVERY DAY about him and his agenda?

Focus: I don't give a crap about democrats.

Where was the effort by the Rodents to reach across the aisle...it's their job as the friggin' LOSERS to reach out....not the other way around...and find grounds for compromise?

Do I have to say it yet again?

No.  It was the job of the Republicans to be diamond hard in resistance to the Rodent agenda, for the Rodents have been plotting the overthrow of the Constitution since before the Civil War.

Ah! finally some small agreement! But a fallacy. Voting for anything with a pulse and an 'R' has left the Republicans without any unity whatsoever. Years, decades of trying to bury the principles of Conservatism - which they purport to defend - has left them without a single feck. They have no purpose, and no banner to align under. There's your 'Big Tent' at work, right there.

Trump pissed off the RINOs by beating Jeb! with a baseball bat.

Trump pissed off the Rodents by beating Drunken Hillary with an election. 

Is it any wonder he was sabotaged at every step because the elites hated him merely because he wasn't on the Gravy Train with them?

That is why you don't go in like a bull in a china shop. The very people you are pissing off are the people you need to pass anything.

Populism.

You object to people liking what their candidates have to say.   You prefer it that the people themselves should have no say in who represents them and those candidates should be chosen by party elites in back-rooms where the hedge fund managers can pick and choose.

Populism is how America is SUPPOSED TO choose it's presidents.

Only if they are foolish.

But the immature are very happy that the Americans of 2020 were denied their choice of president by a gang of Rodents who defrauded the election and a gang of RINOs who refused to object to the steal.

Them's the breaks. Tough sh*t, there it is. I too believe there was fraud. There is always fraud. The problem is in proving it. And again Tumpy failed to prove it.

Libertarianism, REAL libertarianism, is doing just fine.   

That is bloody laughable, right there. libertarianism has not been supported by Republicans for decades. Certainly not by Tump.

Too bad the Libertarian Party is an agent for the Rodents. 

Too bad Republicans offer them nothing. They used to be allied to the Goldwater wing, and could be counted on when a Conservative candidate was offered. They probably would be again if Republicans ever offered up a Conservative.

And fiscal conservatives are liberals.

That is the single most idiotic thing I have ever seen on this forum. And that's saying some. Congratulations.

So your principle is, similar to events in the early 1800's, the Do Nothing Party.

Nope. I will vote for Principled Conservatives by the numbers. Don't care what party. I no longer have any affiliation with Republicans, nor any billboard 'conservative' organizations.

And in that, I am under no obligation other than the one I keep voluntarily - That being full support of the three (really four) factions of Conservatism as born of Goldwater and Reagan.

[Sled Dog]

No, it is not. The party has three wings and numerous factions. Where the heck do you get the idea that they all bow to the President's will?

I'll give you the Short Answer:

There's no RINO in "Team".

[roamer_1]

I'll give you the Short Answer:

There's no RINO in "Team".

'Team' don't come just because you want it to. Neither does respect - That is earned. And it is a high price. If you ever had employees or ran a crew, you would know that.