Author Topic: Trump supporters organized the Capitol riot online  (Read 8467 times)

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Offline roamer_1

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Re: Trump supporters organized the Capitol riot online
« Reply #125 on: January 15, 2021, 05:09:16 am »
I think the Trumpism movement was rooted in a personality cult; it stood for Trump the man, and it's not yet in the past tense.  It is motivated by the frustration millions honestly felt in not having a leader speak for them, and seeing Trump finally say what they had felt for years, and saying it without apology.  Consequently the movement is willing to overlook Trump's character and personality flaws, even to deny and invert them and to interpret them as virtues, and to excoriate anyone who refuses to join in that fantasy.


I think that's pretty well right - I think people were happy to see somebody dot the eye of the liberals, and in their glee confused bellicosity and belligerence with serious cahones. I find that quite the other way. The loudmouth is the last one to worry about. But then there is a disconnect between my way and most folks it seems. I am more a 'walk softly and carry a big stick' kinda guy. It's the quiet one that is the curly wolf. He'll have nothing to prove. 'He fights' would have no need to be emphasized because it would just be a matter of course. And when he lets loose the results are self evident. There is blood on the ground.

Hill folk know what I am saying, and cowboys do too. But it seems that posturing is taken for manhood in many places. Titillated by the knife fight in 'Grease', as it were. Never found that sort of thing to be of any worth at all myself, not to mention being attractive. So maybe I am the wrong one to say.

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But it did identify and reinforce ideas that American Conservatives should take seriously, and include in our orthodoxy : main-street-America-first, in both trade policy and immigration policy; a serious reduction in the burden to freedom and prosperity posed by Federal regulation; and an intentional withdrawal from the idea of the American military as the guarantor of other people's freedoms.  On fiscal policy serious Conservatives can only regard "Trumpism" as a failure, but that doesn't negate the areas where it has clarified what the American people want from the Federal government.

Well that is true and self-evident. And all of the above are present in Conservatism - But that does not credit the Tumpist movement with much. A broken clock is right twice a day after all. It isn't THAT it's right, but WHY it's right. 'America First' is a bumper sticker, not an argument.

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I've been clear here more than once about my criticisms of Trump.  But if we "real Conservatives" really have this figured out, then we have to ask ourselves honestly why we can't get a "real Conservative" elected.  We had a clear real Conservative choice during the 2016 R primaries, whom I supported, yet he was defeated.  Some of us might consider Trump the man unworthy, but if Trumpism is empty as well, why did so many choose Trump over Cruz?

Again, I am probably not the right guy. I am particularly sensitive to con jobs, and I smell that sort of thing coming.  I see Tumpy as a chaos player following up with a martyr con. Throw everything at the wall, piss everybody off, and then going all crybaby and underdog because everybody is picking on him... Playing off of sympathy and creating a defensive reaction... And I saw that in him early on. He's a one trick pony... and he always plays the public.

And the drama always plays better with the public than someone who is straightforward like Cruz. However, I am continually surprised by how many that claim conservatism will be so easily swayed to sacrifice the very things they claim to stand upon for the expediency of the moment. And worse than that - The main motivator, the overweening lever is fear. Fear has never made a proper decision.

Offline roamer_1

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Re: Trump supporters organized the Capitol riot online
« Reply #126 on: January 15, 2021, 05:15:54 am »
I know, right?

Even without C19, if Trump won a second term he was on the path to see the debt rise faster than it did on BHO's watch


It is utterly bereft of defense. Anyone who has ever balanced a checkbook at the kitchen table... Anyone who has ever finally found themselves cutting up their credit cards would inherently understand the math.

Offline roamer_1

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Re: Trump supporters organized the Capitol riot online
« Reply #127 on: January 15, 2021, 05:17:15 am »
This is simply not true. Not that there weren't leftist agitators in DC. But the claim that all those who broke the law were BLM types is false

I would say that is probably right... But then that is what rebel-rousers and agitators are for.

Offline DB

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Re: Trump supporters organized the Capitol riot online
« Reply #128 on: January 15, 2021, 05:54:50 am »
I think the Trumpism movement was rooted in a personality cult; it stood for Trump the man, and it's not yet in the past tense.  It is motivated by the frustration millions honestly felt in not having a leader speak for them, and seeing Trump finally say what they had felt for years, and saying it without apology.  Consequently the movement is willing to overlook Trump's character and personality flaws, even to deny and invert them and to interpret them as virtues, and to excoriate anyone who refuses to join in that fantasy.

But it did identify and reinforce ideas that American Conservatives should take seriously, and include in our orthodoxy : main-street-America-first, in both trade policy and immigration policy; a serious reduction in the burden to freedom and prosperity posed by Federal regulation; and an intentional withdrawal from the idea of the American military as the guarantor of other people's freedoms.  On fiscal policy serious Conservatives can only regard "Trumpism" as a failure, but that doesn't negate the areas where it has clarified what the American people want from the Federal government.

I've been clear here more than once about my criticisms of Trump.  But if we "real Conservatives" really have this figured out, then we have to ask ourselves honestly why we can't get a "real Conservative" elected.  We had a clear real Conservative choice during the 2016 R primaries, whom I supported, yet he was defeated.  Some of us might consider Trump the man unworthy, but if Trumpism is empty as well, why did so many choose Trump over Cruz?

Because lies won the day. He was the only who could win we were told. Never mind Hillary was widely hated. Remember the evil Goldman Sachs that owned Cruz? Never mind that Trump placed numerous top Goldman Sachs executives in charge of Federal departments shortly after taking office... He was going to drain the swamp he said prior to being elected and then promptly let the queen of the swamp off the hook for already suffering too much the day after he was elected.

And too many want their cut of someone else paying for their goodies. Trump said he was going to demand that health insurance cover preexisting conditions - an idea that negates the very definition of insurance. A logical fallacy. It was simply turning private health insurance into another government entitlement program with the illusion of being private health insurance. And the GOP lied repeatedly about getting rid of that scam.

I really doubt there's any recovery from here.

Offline Smokin Joe

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Re: Trump supporters organized the Capitol riot online
« Reply #129 on: January 15, 2021, 09:46:22 am »

BWAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA! Got that far and knew whatever was under it was bullcrap.

FIFTEEN FRIGGIN TRILLION DOLLARS. That is not 'thrifty' in ANY sense of the word.
He is the only president to put oil in the SPR for free, None of the others did that. Jus' saying.
« Last Edit: January 15, 2021, 09:47:36 am by Smokin Joe »
How God must weep at humans' folly! Stand fast! God knows what he is doing!
Seventeen Techniques for Truth Suppression

Of all tyrannies, a tyranny sincerely exercised for the good of its victims may be the most oppressive. It would be better to live under robber barons than under omnipotent moral busybodies. The robber baron's cruelty may sometimes sleep, his cupidity may at some point be satiated; but those who torment us for our own good will torment us without end for they do so with the approval of their own conscience.

C S Lewis

Offline roamer_1

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Re: Trump supporters organized the Capitol riot online
« Reply #130 on: January 15, 2021, 01:10:31 pm »
He is the only president to put oil in the SPR for free, None of the others did that. Jus' saying.

 Your old enough to know Joe,  There ain't nothing free. But I won't argue with you over such a pittance. For a pittance it is alongside of the debt that he put my grandchildren into.   It is quite literally indefensible.

Offline Smokin Joe

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Re: Trump supporters organized the Capitol riot online
« Reply #131 on: January 15, 2021, 02:28:06 pm »
Your old enough to know Joe,  There ain't nothing free. But I won't argue with you over such a pittance. For a pittance it is alongside of the debt that he put my grandchildren into.   It is quite literally indefensible.
You are right. The oil is in payment for space in the SPR, rented to give time to slow down and shut in production that exceeded available storage space.
How God must weep at humans' folly! Stand fast! God knows what he is doing!
Seventeen Techniques for Truth Suppression

Of all tyrannies, a tyranny sincerely exercised for the good of its victims may be the most oppressive. It would be better to live under robber barons than under omnipotent moral busybodies. The robber baron's cruelty may sometimes sleep, his cupidity may at some point be satiated; but those who torment us for our own good will torment us without end for they do so with the approval of their own conscience.

C S Lewis

Offline thackney

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Re: Trump supporters organized the Capitol riot online
« Reply #132 on: January 15, 2021, 02:55:10 pm »
He is the only president to put oil in the SPR for free, None of the others did that. Jus' saying.

@Smokin Joe

Can you help me understand the "for free" part?

DOE Acts on President Trump's Order to Purchase Oil for the SPR: Releases RFP Announcing Crude Oil Purchase to Test the Market
https://www.energy.gov/articles/doe-acts-president-trumps-order-purchase-oil-spr-releases-rfp-announcing-crude-oil-purchase
« Last Edit: January 15, 2021, 03:18:26 pm by thackney »
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Offline thackney

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Re: Trump supporters organized the Capitol riot online
« Reply #133 on: January 15, 2021, 03:07:44 pm »
He is the only president to put oil in the SPR for free, None of the others did that. Jus' saying.





U.S. Ending Stocks of Crude Oil in SPR
https://www.eia.gov/dnav/pet/hist/LeafHandler.ashx?n=PET&s=MCSSTUS1&f=M

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Offline Weird Tolkienish Figure

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Re: Trump supporters organized the Capitol riot online
« Reply #134 on: January 15, 2021, 06:40:05 pm »
Because lies won the day. He was the only who could win we were told. Never mind Hillary was widely hated. Remember the evil Goldman Sachs that owned Cruz? Never mind that Trump placed numerous top Goldman Sachs executives in charge of Federal departments shortly after taking office... He was going to drain the swamp he said prior to being elected and then promptly let the queen of the swamp off the hook for already suffering too much the day after he was elected.

And too many want their cut of someone else paying for their goodies. Trump said he was going to demand that health insurance cover preexisting conditions - an idea that negates the very definition of insurance. A logical fallacy. It was simply turning private health insurance into another government entitlement program with the illusion of being private health insurance. And the GOP lied repeatedly about getting rid of that scam.

I really doubt there's any recovery from here.

In 2024, we'll just pretend he, and nothing else in this disastrous year, happened.

Offline Smokin Joe

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Re: Trump supporters organized the Capitol riot online
« Reply #135 on: January 16, 2021, 06:29:53 am »
How God must weep at humans' folly! Stand fast! God knows what he is doing!
Seventeen Techniques for Truth Suppression

Of all tyrannies, a tyranny sincerely exercised for the good of its victims may be the most oppressive. It would be better to live under robber barons than under omnipotent moral busybodies. The robber baron's cruelty may sometimes sleep, his cupidity may at some point be satiated; but those who torment us for our own good will torment us without end for they do so with the approval of their own conscience.

C S Lewis

Online Hoodat

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Re: Trump supporters organized the Capitol riot online
« Reply #136 on: January 16, 2021, 01:43:06 pm »
In 2024, we'll just pretend he, and nothing else in this disastrous year, happened.

In 2024, you will see millions of Biden voters denying that they ever voted for him.
If a political party does not have its foundation in the determination to advance a cause that is right and that is moral, then it is not a political party; it is merely a conspiracy to seize power.

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Offline thackney

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Re: Trump supporters organized the Capitol riot online
« Reply #137 on: January 16, 2021, 06:12:32 pm »
https://news.bloomberglaw.com/environment-and-energy/trump-opens-oil-reserve-to-drillers-seeking-a-home-for-barrels The rent was to be in oil.

Thank you.  While I believe that was the first time the SPR was used for temporary private storage, it was not the first time oil was added to the SPR in a similar fashion.  Under several presidents before Trump oil has been loaned out to private industry and repaid with the original quantity plus a premium amount for the loan.  Essential interest paid in barrels of oil in place of money.

Often this was due to Hurricanes but also other types of supply disruptions.

History of SPR Releases
https://www.energy.gov/fe/services/petroleum-reserves/strategic-petroleum-reserve/releasing-oil-spr
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Offline Smokin Joe

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Re: Trump supporters organized the Capitol riot online
« Reply #138 on: January 17, 2021, 09:50:56 am »
Thank you.  While I believe that was the first time the SPR was used for temporary private storage, it was not the first time oil was added to the SPR in a similar fashion.  Under several presidents before Trump oil has been loaned out to private industry and repaid with the original quantity plus a premium amount for the loan.  Essential interest paid in barrels of oil in place of money.

Often this was due to Hurricanes but also other types of supply disruptions.

History of SPR Releases
https://www.energy.gov/fe/services/petroleum-reserves/strategic-petroleum-reserve/releasing-oil-spr
Apparently the idea was to put the oil in and to allow storage which equaled time to ramp down production so the market would not be totally glutted. That had the effect of stabilizing price, which was at -$50 and dropping. But the back end of the deal was that some of that oil would be left in the SPR as rent for the space. As far as the Country is concerned, it's free oil.  That is a businessman's style of win-win solution.
How God must weep at humans' folly! Stand fast! God knows what he is doing!
Seventeen Techniques for Truth Suppression

Of all tyrannies, a tyranny sincerely exercised for the good of its victims may be the most oppressive. It would be better to live under robber barons than under omnipotent moral busybodies. The robber baron's cruelty may sometimes sleep, his cupidity may at some point be satiated; but those who torment us for our own good will torment us without end for they do so with the approval of their own conscience.

C S Lewis

Offline Freedom2020

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Re: Trump supporters organized the Capitol riot online
« Reply #139 on: January 17, 2021, 02:50:03 pm »
When did a stolen election become a conspiracy theory? Now they go after conservative websites too. Everything will be like before the emergence of social media, when there was only the lying MSM, or better, worse than before, now the Nazis of the Democratic party and big techs want absolute power. American society better wake up quickly to what is happening. America is fast becoming a globalist pscychopathic dictatorship. This has happened before. This whole mechanism was described by Andrew Lobaczweski in a study reporting that the communist elite are psychopathic individuals acting cooperatively in politics. In the same way that psychopaths form gangs in big cities, they can turn their attention to politics and the result is what we see now in Europe and America. I made a text explaining Lobaczweski's findings and how they fit into America's current situation. Read it in link below. Please, share it.

----> http://www.gopbriefingroom.com/index.php/topic,424671.0.html   <----

« Last Edit: January 17, 2021, 02:52:41 pm by Freedom2020 »

Offline roamer_1

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Re: Trump supporters organized the Capitol riot online
« Reply #140 on: January 17, 2021, 03:44:54 pm »
When did a stolen election become a conspiracy theory? Now they go after conservative websites too. Everything will be like before the emergence of social media, when there was only the lying MSM, or better, worse than before, now the Nazis of the Democratic party and big techs want absolute power. American society better wake up quickly to what is happening. America is fast becoming a globalist pscychopathic dictatorship. This has happened before. This whole mechanism was described by Andrew Lobaczweski in a study reporting that the communist elite are psychopathic individuals acting cooperatively in politics. In the same way that psychopaths form gangs in big cities, they can turn their attention to politics and the result is what we see now in Europe and America. I made a text explaining Lobaczweski's findings and how they fit into America's current situation. Read it in link below. Please, share it.

----> http://www.gopbriefingroom.com/index.php/topic,424671.0.html   <----

Meh... Explaining the obvious. ALL leaders have a component of hedonism...Self-centeredness...  sociopathic nature. That is what it takes to lead - MY way or the highway. There it is.

So the argument than becomes one of where the sociopath becomes a psychopath, which is a fine line already, impossible to divide, even as genius is direct kin to insanity.

Offline Smokin Joe

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Re: Trump supporters organized the Capitol riot online
« Reply #141 on: January 18, 2021, 08:36:45 am »
Meh... Explaining the obvious. ALL leaders have a component of hedonism...Self-centeredness...  sociopathic nature. That is what it takes to lead - MY way or the highway. There it is.

So the argument than becomes one of where the sociopath becomes a psychopath, which is a fine line already, impossible to divide, even as genius is direct kin to insanity.
This is one of the better posts in a long time for explaining what we are up against. http://www.gopbriefingroom.com/index.php/topic,424671.0.html
How God must weep at humans' folly! Stand fast! God knows what he is doing!
Seventeen Techniques for Truth Suppression

Of all tyrannies, a tyranny sincerely exercised for the good of its victims may be the most oppressive. It would be better to live under robber barons than under omnipotent moral busybodies. The robber baron's cruelty may sometimes sleep, his cupidity may at some point be satiated; but those who torment us for our own good will torment us without end for they do so with the approval of their own conscience.

C S Lewis

Offline roamer_1

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Re: Trump supporters organized the Capitol riot online
« Reply #142 on: January 18, 2021, 03:47:11 pm »
This is one of the better posts in a long time for explaining what we are up against. http://www.gopbriefingroom.com/index.php/topic,424671.0.html

I read it. A link to that occasioned my post. And I will stand on my reply.

There is no distinction in today vis forever... what is has always been. Leadership always has a sociopathic component. and as I have said, the distinction between sociopath and psychopath is fine indeed.

In that it isn't that I reject the work... but rather that it leaves no mark. Today is no different than ever in its worldly parts. There is nothing new in the world. and thus, nothing novel in leadership.

What we're up against ain't human. So any diagnosis of humanity is bound to  fail.

@Smokin Joe
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Online Hoodat

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Re: Trump supporters organized the Capitol riot online
« Reply #143 on: January 18, 2021, 03:52:12 pm »
What we're up against ain't human. So any diagnosis of humanity is bound to  fail.

For we do not wrestle against flesh and blood, but against principalities, against powers, against the rulers of the darkness of this age, against spiritual hosts of wickedness in the heavenly places.

-Ephesians 6:12-
If a political party does not have its foundation in the determination to advance a cause that is right and that is moral, then it is not a political party; it is merely a conspiracy to seize power.

-Dwight Eisenhower-


"The [U.S.] Constitution is a limitation on the government, not on private individuals ... it does not prescribe the conduct of private individuals, only the conduct of the government ... it is not a charter for government power, but a charter of the citizen's protection against the government."

-Ayn Rand-

Offline roamer_1

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Re: Trump supporters organized the Capitol riot online
« Reply #144 on: January 18, 2021, 05:12:17 pm »
For we do not wrestle against flesh and blood, but against principalities, against powers, against the rulers of the darkness of this age, against spiritual hosts of wickedness in the heavenly places.

-Ephesians 6:12-


Exactly, and with emphasis.

Online Hoodat

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Re: Trump supporters organized the Capitol riot online
« Reply #145 on: January 18, 2021, 05:33:45 pm »
Therefore, my beloved brethren, be steadfast, immovable, always abounding in the work of the Lord, knowing that your labor is not in vain in the Lord.

-1 Corinthians 15:58-
If a political party does not have its foundation in the determination to advance a cause that is right and that is moral, then it is not a political party; it is merely a conspiracy to seize power.

-Dwight Eisenhower-


"The [U.S.] Constitution is a limitation on the government, not on private individuals ... it does not prescribe the conduct of private individuals, only the conduct of the government ... it is not a charter for government power, but a charter of the citizen's protection against the government."

-Ayn Rand-

Offline roamer_1

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Re: Trump supporters organized the Capitol riot online
« Reply #146 on: January 18, 2021, 05:41:11 pm »
Therefore, my beloved brethren, be steadfast, immovable, always abounding in the work of the Lord, knowing that your labor is not in vain in the Lord.

-1 Corinthians 15:58-


Hence, why Conservatives tend to be steadfast and immovable.  :beer: :patriot: :seeya:

Offline Victoria33

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Re: Trump supporters organized the Capitol riot online
« Reply #147 on: January 18, 2021, 09:43:02 pm »
I think the Trumpism movement was rooted in a personality cult; it stood for Trump the man, and it's not yet in the past tense. 
@HoustonSam
@Jazzhead
@Cyber Liberty

Yes, "cult" is the operative word.  Trump is another Captain Ahab whose speeches to his crew brainwashed them into a cult who would do anything Ahab or Trump said.  Ahab's ship went down, all were lost except Ishmael who did his own thinking.

There is no point to keep word fighting here about who was the crew that assaulted the United States of America.  Was it Trump's crew, a Democrat crew, or a general Criminal Crew out for a good time beating people/destroying property?  We are going to know that when the trials start - who each one is and their crew identification. 

Again, throwing rocks (found on the beach) at each other here, is useless waste of energy - and bumps on heads.  Wait until crew ID is known. 

I just noticed, this is my post no. 7,000.
« Last Edit: January 18, 2021, 09:45:18 pm by Victoria33 »

Offline Smokin Joe

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Re: Trump supporters organized the Capitol riot online
« Reply #148 on: January 19, 2021, 04:17:50 am »
For we do not wrestle against flesh and blood, but against principalities, against powers, against the rulers of the darkness of this age, against spiritual hosts of wickedness in the heavenly places.

-Ephesians 6:12-

@roamer_1 I agree fully, that the problems we face ultimately are not of this world, but instead saw the piece as a good diagnostic framework for identifying those traits in humans when they might not seem so apparent. We see the almost orgasmic megalomania growing in those who deem themselves above us all, in a society founded on the Truth that, in the eyes of YHWH, all men are created equal, endowed by their creator with unalienable Rights. In some cases it might not be so obvious, and we know its source, for those are the people who feel they should be treated as demigods at the least. I pointed out Fauci, who for fun, status, a grievance against one man,  profit, or simple evil )pr a combination of those), refused to even acknowledge either of a pair of treatments that might have saved the lives of tens of thousands--something which rates as a crime against humanity in more sane times.

These are the philosophies of men, and while there may be some vanity in them, there is also truth--something you and many others have remained steadfastly focused on, so as you say, it leaves no mark. But for others who may suffer from other biases, I think it candidly and simply explains what sort of people they are dealing with, and that may well be a useful tool in projecting what is coming, for those less inclined to read the Old Testament (and New) prophets.
How God must weep at humans' folly! Stand fast! God knows what he is doing!
Seventeen Techniques for Truth Suppression

Of all tyrannies, a tyranny sincerely exercised for the good of its victims may be the most oppressive. It would be better to live under robber barons than under omnipotent moral busybodies. The robber baron's cruelty may sometimes sleep, his cupidity may at some point be satiated; but those who torment us for our own good will torment us without end for they do so with the approval of their own conscience.

C S Lewis

Offline roamer_1

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Re: Trump supporters organized the Capitol riot online
« Reply #149 on: January 19, 2021, 05:32:52 am »
@roamer_1 I agree fully, that the problems we face ultimately are not of this world, but instead saw the piece as a good diagnostic framework for identifying those traits in humans when they might not seem so apparent. We see the almost orgasmic megalomania growing in those who deem themselves above us all, in a society founded on the Truth that, in the eyes of YHWH, all men are created equal, endowed by their creator with unalienable Rights. In some cases it might not be so obvious, and we know its source, for those are the people who feel they should be treated as demigods at the least. I pointed out Fauci, who for fun, status, a grievance against one man,  profit, or simple evil )pr a combination of those), refused to even acknowledge either of a pair of treatments that might have saved the lives of tens of thousands--something which rates as a crime against humanity in more sane times.

These are the philosophies of men, and while there may be some vanity in them, there is also truth--something you and many others have remained steadfastly focused on, so as you say, it leaves no mark. But for others who may suffer from other biases, I think it candidly and simply explains what sort of people they are dealing with, and that may well be a useful tool in projecting what is coming, for those less inclined to read the Old Testament (and New) prophets.

While I agree with you Joe, and nearly always do, it is still a misdirection of focus. It isn't so much 'that they are', but 'what they will' - Any governance is rife with power hungry lawless people. It ALWAYS is so. And that is why our forefathers, both in the country and in Conservatism sought always for small government, rightly chained, and prevented from being powerful enough for your psychopaths to use as a platform to build their guillotines. They WILL do exactly as they are, because they CAN.

That much should go without saying. The focus needs to be on restoring the posts and building the rails, and upon the mighty chain and collar that kept this beast of a government at bay.

And with it, knowledge - not of the psychopath, but of the demons whispering in his ear.