Author Topic: Gaming Out a MAGA Party  (Read 6441 times)

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Offline Mesaclone

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Re: Gaming Out a MAGA Party
« Reply #75 on: December 18, 2020, 02:57:13 pm »
--------------------------------
Urge you to distain your sanctimonious generalities and get acquainted w/the realities of history.
* The Republicans were errand boys for the New England Mercantile Class and later Industrial
Capitalists; promoting strong centralized governance, aggressive trade protectionism and judicial activism during their 75 year political ascendancy from Fremont in 1856 till Hoover; erecting the governance which exists in our nation, at this moment. Reality!
* Principled Conservatism, birthed by the likes of Sargon, Hammurabi and wise Greeks, such as
Plato, is a body of unchanging precepts which are the basis for Man's conduct, involving attitudes, behaviors, impulses and sentiments about human nature which are totally independent of economics, ideology, politics and religion. COMPLETELY!!! 
* Trump is an entertainer in the mold of Groucho Marx who wouldn't know Populism, Capitalism or
Conservatism from an Apprentice Script. As for Tariffs, they are simply economic leverage applied
to fatten the wallets of crony capitalists such as Trump!

First, I think the word you were going for was "disdain"...not distain.

Second, anyone comparing the President with comedians and seeking to demean him as you do is either driven be fear of the way in which he directly attacks liberalism...or by jealously that he has pushed aside the RINO/NT mentality that once ruled the right.  My guess is the latter,  but which of these "types" you fit...I'll leave to you to determine.

I won't address the silly Sargon/Hammurabi commentary...pretending conservatism's legacy is linked to such is absurd. I have my MA with an emphasis in Ancient History and would never attempt to draw such a direct connection...its laughable. Plato of course, rests at the root of most western thought and in particular of enlightenment ideals...but he was also heavily relied upon by early pseudo-socialist moralists like Thomas More....so again...the analogies are so broad and nebulous as to be of little value in studying contemporary politics.  It makes you sound like you have some deep knowledge to spout such names...but its all part of the smarter-than-thou condescension that is the bread and butter of the RINO/NT Republicans. All sound and fury, signifying nothing.

President Trump has governed in the Reagan mold in terms of policy...but his abrasive and aggressive personality is simply to gauche for the NT/RINO tea-sippers of the right and so they/you have undermined him at every step...going so far as to facilitate the Left in trying to defeat our GOP president. It is entirely your right to be a full on Quisling, but do NOT think you have any place remaining in the GOP or in the broader conservative movement after such treachery. You don't...and you can take Mitt Romney, George Conway, Scaramucci, Kristol, Goldberg and the other members of the useful idiot brigade with you.
« Last Edit: December 18, 2020, 03:01:44 pm by Mesaclone »
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Offline catfish1957

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Re: Gaming Out a MAGA Party
« Reply #76 on: December 18, 2020, 03:05:34 pm »
First, I think the word you were going for was "disdain"...not distain.



I think "diSTAIN" describes Ab pretty aptly.  Additionally, he always is the first to ding someone on a typo anyway. 
Thing is....  pseuedo-intellecuals like him, are not usually as smart as they think they are. 
I display the Confederate Battle Flag in honor of my great great great grandfathers who spilled blood at Wilson's Creek and Shiloh.  5 others served in the WBTS with honor too.

Offline Mesaclone

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Re: Gaming Out a MAGA Party
« Reply #77 on: December 18, 2020, 03:37:01 pm »
I think "diSTAIN" describes Ab pretty aptly.  Additionally, he always is the first to ding someone on a typo anyway. 
Thing is....  pseuedo-intellecuals like him, are not usually as smart as they think they are.

Bingo.
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Offline bilo

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Re: Gaming Out a MAGA Party
« Reply #78 on: December 18, 2020, 07:25:28 pm »
First, I think the word you were going for was "disdain"...not distain.

Second, anyone comparing the President with comedians and seeking to demean him as you do is either driven be fear of the way in which he directly attacks liberalism...or by jealously that he has pushed aside the RINO/NT mentality that once ruled the right.  My guess is the latter,  but which of these "types" you fit...I'll leave to you to determine.

I won't address the silly Sargon/Hammurabi commentary...pretending conservatism's legacy is linked to such is absurd. I have my MA with an emphasis in Ancient History and would never attempt to draw such a direct connection...its laughable. Plato of course, rests at the root of most western thought and in particular of enlightenment ideals...but he was also heavily relied upon by early pseudo-socialist moralists like Thomas More....so again...the analogies are so broad and nebulous as to be of little value in studying contemporary politics.  It makes you sound like you have some deep knowledge to spout such names...but its all part of the smarter-than-thou condescension that is the bread and butter of the RINO/NT Republicans. All sound and fury, signifying nothing.

President Trump has governed in the Reagan mold in terms of policy...but his abrasive and aggressive personality is simply to gauche for the NT/RINO tea-sippers of the right and so they/you have undermined him at every step...going so far as to facilitate the Left in trying to defeat our GOP president. It is entirely your right to be a full on Quisling, but do NOT think you have any place remaining in the GOP or in the broader conservative movement after such treachery. You don't...and you can take Mitt Romney, George Conway, Scaramucci, Kristol, Goldberg and the other members of the useful idiot brigade with you.

 :amen:
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Offline Right_in_Virginia

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Re: Gaming Out a MAGA Party
« Reply #79 on: December 18, 2020, 09:07:24 pm »
Where the President leads after this election, most current Republicans/Conservatives will follow. Either he will take control of the mechanisms of the GOP and deeply reform it...or he will initiate an entirely new party structure altogether. I hope it is the first option, as that is certainly the quicker and more easily accomplished path...the second option would likely mean major defeats as the old GOP split between itself and a new MAGA party...and in the short term that will greatly benefit the Dems.

I agree with this @Mesaclone and would add "Trump Democrats" to the list.  All the Congressional GOP  had to do was stand firmly and squarely behind the President to count every LEGAL vote and they would have tethered a large portion of the President's supporters to the Republican Party.  But they couldn't do this; with the Senate Majority Leader going so far as to warn Republicans not to stand in opposition to counting the electoral votes from states with massive, provable fraud and congratulating the new President-elect with a hat tip to his years of "public service".

Now a split from the GOP is inevitable.  I hope the President's future plans include a new media outlet and a new political party.  He could serve as campaigner-in-chief working to replace Democrat AND GOP congressional members with candidates from the new party.  2022 could bring a noticeable change to the political makeup of Congress and 2024 could cement a majority of the new party in both houses and win back the White House.

I think Americans are more than ready for a new party.  I'm guessing at least 75,000,000 are. 

Offline Mesaclone

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Re: Gaming Out a MAGA Party
« Reply #80 on: December 18, 2020, 11:03:51 pm »
I agree with this @Mesaclone and would add "Trump Democrats" to the list.  All the Congressional GOP  had to do was stand firmly and squarely behind the President to count every LEGAL vote and they would have tethered a large portion of the President's supporters to the Republican Party.  But they couldn't do this; with the Senate Majority Leader going so far as to warn Republicans not to stand in opposition to counting the electoral votes from states with massive, provable fraud and congratulating the new President-elect with a hat tip to his years of "public service".

Now a split from the GOP is inevitable.  I hope the President's future plans include a new media outlet and a new political party.  He could serve as campaigner-in-chief working to replace Democrat AND GOP congressional members with candidates from the new party.  2022 could bring a noticeable change to the political makeup of Congress and 2024 could cement a majority of the new party in both houses and win back the White House.

I think Americans are more than ready for a new party.  I'm guessing at least 75,000,000 are.

I generally agree RIV, but lets not forget that there ARE a good number of GOP leaders who are doing the right thing...Gosar and Biggs (my own congressman) for example here in AZ. Further, I think on Jan 6 we will have a much clearer idea of EXACTLY which Senators are part of the swamp, and which are willing to be swamp cleaners...and to be fair there are a good many in the House that I would argue already have shown to be in there fighting with President Trump. 

A new party could mean a lot of things...fully taking over the GOP and pushing out the swamp beasts would make for a new party. Simply forming a MAGA party and splitting conservatives in half may yet HAVE to happen...but I fear we will forfeit 4-5 election cycles to the Left by being so split, and I'm not sure we can undo the damage done in that 6-10 year time frame.

Maybe I'm a dreamer, but I think the party needs to be purged...rather than having the "purgers", who I believe are in the majority, simply leave and split the right in half. Its a dilemma, I know, but I think the better option is to purge and renew rather than the riskier step of a full split.
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Offline Absalom

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Re: Gaming Out a MAGA Party
« Reply #81 on: December 18, 2020, 11:58:49 pm »
First, I think the word you were going for was "disdain"...not distain.
Second, anyone comparing the President with comedians and seeking to demean him as you do is either driven be fear of the way in which he directly attacks liberalism...or by jealously that he has pushed aside the RINO/NT mentality that once ruled the right.  My guess is the latter,  but which of these "types" you fit...I'll leave to you to determine.
I won't address the silly Sargon/Hammurabi commentary...pretending conservatism's legacy is linked to such is absurd. I have my MA with an emphasis in Ancient History and would never attempt to draw such a direct connection...its laughable. Plato of course, rests at the root of most western thought and in particular of enlightenment ideals...but he was also heavily relied upon by early pseudo-socialist moralists like Thomas More....so again...the analogies are so broad and nebulous as to be of little value in studying contemporary politics.  It makes you sound like you have some deep knowledge to spout such names...but its all part of the smarter-than-thou condescension that is the bread and butter of the RINO/NT Republicans. All sound and fury, signifying nothing.
President Trump has governed in the Reagan mold in terms of policy...but his abrasive and aggressive personality is simply to gauche for the NT/RINO tea-sippers of the right and so they/you have undermined him at every step...going so far as to facilitate the Left in trying to defeat our GOP president. It is entirely your right to be a full on Quisling, but do NOT think you have any place remaining in the GOP or in the broader conservative movement after such treachery. You don't...and you can take Mitt Romney, George Conway, Scaramucci, Kristol, Goldberg and the other members of the useful idiot brigade with you.
----------------------
The mis-spelling is my error.
As for Plato, his Republic defined Principled Conservatism as derived from Natural Law
and uncovered through reason. It is a body of moral precepts derived from human nature
governing the conduct of Man, permitting culture/society to survive and thrive.
His wisdom ranks him as one of the greatest minds ever created. Surely he and his
colleagues looking down, must be impressed w/your insight into his logic & philosophy.
As for your MA malarkey, many Ancients were self-taught as well as tutored by their wisest;
Aristotle influenced by Plato and the latter by Socrates; human relationships that persisted
for some 2,000 years up to the collegiality between Mozart & Haydn, the latter the tutor of Beethoven.
This development persisted during Medieval Scholasticism on thru the Renaissance, ended by
French Enlightenment Intellectuals such as Rousseau, St. Just and Voltaire who informed the
world that they had all the answers, birthing the cliche' "We  are the greatest ever" along
w/their creation of bullshit as the norm in governance and a credential called a degree that
signified, er................attendance in a room for many years?????
Predictably, the Ancients required tangible achievement while we are impressed a pieces
of paper.
As for Trump, I overstated the case comparing him to Groucho, a gifted comedian, when
in fact Trump belongs in the company of Clowns such as Clarabell or his colleague Hoody Doody, given his frowns, grimaces, pouts, scowls, smirks, and so on.
As you're one of his leading cheerleaders, perhaps you could suggest to him that he leave
the WH w/o any fandango and focus on his New Party and 2024.
A friend suggested that Trump consider labeling his Party, Know Nothings II  or he could simply shorten it to LOSERS!!!
Anyway, NOTHING FURTHER!
« Last Edit: December 20, 2020, 07:11:02 pm by Absalom »

Offline roamer_1

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Re: Gaming Out a MAGA Party
« Reply #82 on: December 19, 2020, 12:09:20 am »
Maybe I'm a dreamer, but I think the party needs to be purged...rather than having the "purgers", who I believe are in the majority, simply leave and split the right in half. Its a dilemma, I know, but I think the better option is to purge and renew rather than the riskier step of a full split.

I am sorry if I am being blunt... But this idea seems somehow... bulemic - merely a symptom of the next round of binging... There is no end to the whims of populism, nor the temporary satisfaction settled for in the throes of pragmatism. :shrug:

Principled things... Until one can stand upon principles, come hell or high water, the same symptoms remain.

Offline Mesaclone

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Re: Gaming Out a MAGA Party
« Reply #83 on: December 19, 2020, 12:23:17 am »
I am sorry if I am being blunt... But this idea seems somehow... bulemic - merely a symptom of the next round of binging... There is no end to the whims of populism, nor the temporary satisfaction settled for in the throes of pragmatism. :shrug:

Principled things... Until one can stand upon principles, come hell or high water, the same symptoms remain.

Populism as a facilitator of principled conservatism is what we are talking about...not some anarchic version as you seem to perceive it. For example, folks have become ardent fans of the President BECAUSE he has bluntly advocating for a belief in the rule of law and the constitution that underpins that law. Sure...people get fired up over "lock her up"...and that's because they are furious that the law is being set aside for a privileged class...that outrage IS populism.

As Goldwater might have said were he alive today "Populism in the defense of law and constitutionality is no vice". On the contrary, it is only populism that can bring the necessary energy, unity and passion to resist the rise of Socialism that threatens to swamp us all. But I do agree, roamer, that it must be built on a foundation of Enlightenment conservative thought.
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Offline skeeter

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Re: Gaming Out a MAGA Party
« Reply #84 on: December 19, 2020, 12:30:00 am »
Populism as a facilitator of principled conservatism is what we are talking about...not some anarchic version as you seem to perceive it. For example, folks have become ardent fans of the President BECAUSE he has bluntly advocating for a belief in the rule of law and the constitution that underpins that law. Sure...people get fired up over "lock her up"...and that's because they are furious that the law is being set aside for a privileged class...that outrage IS populism.

As Goldwater might have said were he alive today "Populism in the defense of law and constitutionality is no vice". On the contrary, it is only populism that can bring the necessary energy, unity and passion to resist the rise of Socialism that threatens to swamp us all. But I do agree, roamer, that it must be built on a foundation of Enlightenment conservative thought.
This is an example of getting wound around the axle over terms and labels. It seems the 'populism' of the past four years is strongly anchored in Constitutionalism.

Where there is a conflict between Plato's 'conservatism' and US Constitutionalism - if such a thing exists - I'll opt for the Constitution.
« Last Edit: December 19, 2020, 12:31:38 am by skeeter »

Offline roamer_1

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Re: Gaming Out a MAGA Party
« Reply #85 on: December 19, 2020, 01:54:13 am »
Populism as a facilitator of principled conservatism is what we are talking about...not some anarchic version as you seem to perceive it. For example, folks have become ardent fans of the President BECAUSE he has bluntly advocating for a belief in the rule of law and the constitution that underpins that law. Sure...people get fired up over "lock her up"...and that's because they are furious that the law is being set aside for a privileged class...that outrage IS populism.

As Goldwater might have said were he alive today "Populism in the defense of law and constitutionality is no vice". On the contrary, it is only populism that can bring the necessary energy, unity and passion to resist the rise of Socialism that threatens to swamp us all. But I do agree, roamer, that it must be built on a foundation of Enlightenment conservative thought.

A broken watch is sometimes right too...

And as with most (every) hyphenated 'conservatism', it is not what is being raised up the flagpole, it is what is being thrown under the bus... And what is being thrown under the bus is always the same.

Similar in fact to religions that drift away from dogma (not that I am a fan of dogma simply for its sake).

And that archaic Conservatism - Odd how that reeks of the hubris of modernity - That conservatism which has defined for Man the things that are good - locked up in time tested truth... How mistaken it is to call it archaic, and how braggadocios it is to intend to divide it...

That which was true then is true now, and will always be true - That is what defines a principle, by the very and ultimate  definition.

And as @Absalom so truly put: Woe to those who think it 'enlightened'.
« Last Edit: December 19, 2020, 01:55:22 am by roamer_1 »

Offline roamer_1

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Re: Gaming Out a MAGA Party
« Reply #86 on: December 19, 2020, 01:57:07 am »
This is an example of getting wound around the axle over terms and labels. It seems the 'populism' of the past four years is strongly anchored in Constitutionalism.

Where there is a conflict between Plato's 'conservatism' and US Constitutionalism - if such a thing exists - I'll opt for the Constitution.

No, words mean things... That is what words are for.

Offline Right_in_Virginia

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Re: Gaming Out a MAGA Party
« Reply #87 on: December 19, 2020, 02:40:17 am »
I generally agree RIV, but lets not forget that there ARE a good number of GOP leaders who are doing the right thing...Gosar and Biggs (my own congressman) for example here in AZ. Further, I think on Jan 6 we will have a much clearer idea of EXACTLY which Senators are part of the swamp, and which are willing to be swamp cleaners...and to be fair there are a good many in the House that I would argue already have shown to be in there fighting with President Trump. 

A new party could mean a lot of things...fully taking over the GOP and pushing out the swamp beasts would make for a new party. Simply forming a MAGA party and splitting conservatives in half may yet HAVE to happen...but I fear we will forfeit 4-5 election cycles to the Left by being so split, and I'm not sure we can undo the damage done in that 6-10 year time frame.

Maybe I'm a dreamer, but I think the party needs to be purged...rather than having the "purgers", who I believe are in the majority, simply leave and split the right in half. Its a dilemma, I know, but I think the better option is to purge and renew rather than the riskier step of a full split.

We would never wrestle control from the swamp GOP so purging and renewing isn't a reasonable expectation.  A full split will never be more timely than with a national leader who's already received 75+ million votes.  It's now or never   @Mesaclone




Offline skeeter

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Re: Gaming Out a MAGA Party
« Reply #88 on: December 19, 2020, 02:43:08 am »
No, words mean things... That is what words are for.
Words mean things. They are used to convey nuanced meaning.

Labels are another thing altogether.

Offline Mesaclone

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Re: Gaming Out a MAGA Party
« Reply #89 on: December 19, 2020, 03:26:28 am »
We would never wrestle control from the swamp GOP so purging and renewing isn't a reasonable expectation.  A full split will never be more timely than with a national leader who's already received 75+ million votes.  It's now or never   @Mesaclone

You may be right RIV. For me, on this, where Trump leads I will follow. I would hate to leave behind such men as Ted Cruz and a few others....there ARE good men and women in this party.
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Offline bilo

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Re: Gaming Out a MAGA Party
« Reply #90 on: December 19, 2020, 04:44:03 am »
I agree with this @Mesaclone and would add "Trump Democrats" to the list.  All the Congressional GOP  had to do was stand firmly and squarely behind the President to count every LEGAL vote and they would have tethered a large portion of the President's supporters to the Republican Party.  But they couldn't do this; with the Senate Majority Leader going so far as to warn Republicans not to stand in opposition to counting the electoral votes from states with massive, provable fraud and congratulating the new President-elect with a hat tip to his years of "public service".

Now a split from the GOP is inevitable.  I hope the President's future plans include a new media outlet and a new political party.  He could serve as campaigner-in-chief working to replace Democrat AND GOP congressional members with candidates from the new party.  2022 could bring a noticeable change to the political makeup of Congress and 2024 could cement a majority of the new party in both houses and win back the White House.

I think Americans are more than ready for a new party.  I'm guessing at least 75,000,000 are.

I think a new party could be the instrument for real separation from the coming socialist states of America. If the energy is focused on electing people at the State level up to federal (but not federal only) then bills could be introduced along the lines of what was being discussed in Texas - TEXIT.

I don't believe the Republic can be saved. Look at the Pubs in the Senate. They all seem to be eager to go back to the way things were before Trump. They won't fight even though it's obvious the election was stolen. The SCOTUS won't fight for election integrity. The various govt. agencies are corrupt.  Electing the right people at the national level doesn't change anything. We need real change. We need States that want out!
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Offline Right_in_Virginia

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Re: Gaming Out a MAGA Party
« Reply #91 on: December 19, 2020, 04:44:32 am »
You may be right RIV. For me, on this, where Trump leads I will follow. I would hate to leave behind such men as Ted Cruz and a few others....there ARE good men and women in this party.

I'd prefer not to save a political party that doesn't deserve the effort for the convenience of a few good politicians @Mesaclone  These good men and women will have a choice to make.

Offline bilo

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Re: Gaming Out a MAGA Party
« Reply #92 on: December 19, 2020, 04:51:25 am »
We would never wrestle control from the swamp GOP so purging and renewing isn't a reasonable expectation.  A full split will never be more timely than with a national leader who's already received 75+ million votes.  It's now or never   @Mesaclone

I think one way or another a split is coming.

We have two different views of govt in this country. One group wants top down centralized control over everything in our lives. If you don't toe the line just right you must be "canceled". The other group wants govt to exist to protect our God given rights to life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness. We can not coexist.

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Offline bilo

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Re: Gaming Out a MAGA Party
« Reply #93 on: December 19, 2020, 04:52:35 am »
You may be right RIV. For me, on this, where Trump leads I will follow. I would hate to leave behind such men as Ted Cruz and a few others....there ARE good men and women in this party.
Who's to say Trump supporting politicians wouldn't join us.
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Offline Hoodat

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Re: Gaming Out a MAGA Party
« Reply #94 on: December 19, 2020, 05:43:29 am »
----------------------------
Emphatically and categorically disagree !!!
Our legacy developed from the English Colonists starting w/Jamestown in 1607!
Some 400 years earlier, Magna Carta had diluted some of the absolute power of   
English Monarchical Rule, planting the seeds of decentralized authority.
Over the centuries, this became an integral component of English Common Law
and Governance, unlike their continental colleagues.
In turn, it was actively promoted by our Founding Fathers who, by the way, were
English Citizens, before our Independence.

Your response has absolutely positively NOTHING to do with what I posted.

In case you're interested, here is the 1856 GOP platform:  https://cwnc.omeka.chass.ncsu.edu/exhibits/show/benjamin-hedrick/item/285

Opening paragraph:

This Convention of Delegates, assembled in pursuance of a call addressed to the people of the United States, without regard to past political differences or divisions, who are opposed to the repeal of the Missouri Compromise; to the policy of the present Administration; to the extension of Slavery into Free Territory; in favor of the admission of Kansas as a Free State; of restoring the action of the Federal Government to the principles of Washington and Jefferson

Imagine that.  Restoring our government to the intent of our founding fathers.  That doesn't sound at all like you describe.

But there's more:

Resolved: That the maintenance of the principles promulgated in the Declaration of Independence, and embodied in the Federal Constitution are essential to the preservation of our Republican institutions, and that the Federal Constitution, the rights of the States, and the union of the States, must and shall be preserved.

Well look at that.  The very first Republican platform, and there it is in the very first paragraph - States Rights.  Go figure.

But there's even more:

Resolved: That while the Constitution of the United States was ordained and established by the people, in order to "form a more perfect union, establish justice, insure domestic tranquility, provide for the common defense, promote the general welfare, and secure the blessings of liberty," and contain ample provision for the protection of the life, liberty, and property of every citizen, the dearest Constitutional rights of the people of Kansas have been fraudulently and violently taken from them.

Their Territory has been invaded by an armed force;

Spurious and pretended legislative, judicial, and executive officers have been set over them, by whose usurped authority, sustained by the military power of the government, tyrannical and unconstitutional laws have been enacted and enforced;

The right of the people to keep and bear arms has been infringed.

Test oaths of an extraordinary and entangling nature have been imposed as a condition of exercising the right of suffrage and holding office.

The right of an accused person to a speedy and public trial by an impartial jury has been denied;

The right of the people to be secure in their persons, houses, papers, and effects, against unreasonable searches and seizures, has been violated;

They have been deprived of life, liberty, and property without due process of law;

That the freedom of speech and of the press has been abridged;

The right to choose their representatives has been made of no effect;

Murders, robberies, and arsons have been instigated and encouraged, and the offenders have been allowed to go unpunished;

That all these things have been done with the knowledge, sanction, and procurement of the present National Administration; and that for this high crime against the Constitution, the Union, and humanity, we arraign that Administration, the President, his advisers, agents, supporters, apologists, and accessories, either before or after the fact, before the country and before the world; and that it is our fixed purpose to bring the actual perpetrators of these atrocious outrages and their accomplices to a sure and condign punishment thereafter.

Resolved, That Kansas should be immediately admitted as a state of this Union, with her present Free Constitution, as at once the most effectual way of securing to her citizens the enjoyment of the rights and privileges to which they are entitled, and of ending the civil strife now raging in her territory.

So the territory of Kansas is under invasion by the federal government, and its only course of resolve is to become a State in order to secure the rights granted States under the Constitution and reserved by its people.

If a political party does not have its foundation in the determination to advance a cause that is right and that is moral, then it is not a political party; it is merely a conspiracy to seize power.

-Dwight Eisenhower-


"The [U.S.] Constitution is a limitation on the government, not on private individuals ... it does not prescribe the conduct of private individuals, only the conduct of the government ... it is not a charter for government power, but a charter of the citizen's protection against the government."

-Ayn Rand-

Offline Absalom

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Re: Gaming Out a MAGA Party
« Reply #95 on: December 20, 2020, 03:22:30 am »
Your response has absolutely positively NOTHING to do with what I posted.
In case you're interested, here is the 1856 GOP platform.
------------------------------
I'm totally uninterested in any/all political preachifying.
My original and core point was plain and simple; i.e. to identify the heritage of the USA
and the massive debt we owe the Giants of the Past.
A wise Man, Russell Kirk, who I had the good fortune to know, did it powerfully in his
majestic tome, "The Roots of American Order" whereby he reached back millennia, identifying:
* Jerusalem, which gave us our Biblical legacy,
* Athens, which gave us our legacy in Art & Science,
* Rome which gave us our legacy in Leadership and
* London which  gave us our legacy in Language, Common Law, the Separation of Church & State
as well as the Decentralization of Authority.
These formed the attitudes, behaviors, impulses and sentiments that guided our Founders,
permitting them to birth a nation/state that survived and thrived.
Sadly, we are no longer bound by these principles or that vision; and will pay the price.
 

Offline Hoodat

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Re: Gaming Out a MAGA Party
« Reply #96 on: December 20, 2020, 03:48:42 am »
------------------------------
I'm totally uninterested in any/all political preachifying.
My original and core point was plain and simple; i.e. to identify the heritage of the USA
and the massive debt we owe the Giants of the Past.
A wise Man, Russell Kirk, who I had the good fortune to know, did it powerfully in his
majestic tome, "The Roots of American Order" whereby he reached back millennia, identifying:
* Jerusalem, which gave us our Biblical legacy,
* Athens, which gave us our legacy in Art & Science,
* Rome which gave us our legacy in Leadership and
* London which  gave us our legacy in Language, Common Law, the Separation of Church & State
as well as the Decentralization of Authority.
These formed the attitudes, behaviors, impulses and sentiments that guided our Founders,
permitting them to birth a nation/state that survived and thrived.
Sadly, we are no longer bound by these principles or that vision; and will pay the price.

That's really beautiful and all.  But how did all that morph into this:

------------------
The primacy of States Rights was the legacy of our Southern Agrarian & Rural Democrats;
birthed by our Founders through the legacy of the English Whig Tradition.
The 1860 Republicans opposed States Rights; promoting strong centralized government,
as industrial Capitalism became the economic core of our economy.
It was a basis of their platform throughout their political ascendancy from Lincoln to Hoover.
If a political party does not have its foundation in the determination to advance a cause that is right and that is moral, then it is not a political party; it is merely a conspiracy to seize power.

-Dwight Eisenhower-


"The [U.S.] Constitution is a limitation on the government, not on private individuals ... it does not prescribe the conduct of private individuals, only the conduct of the government ... it is not a charter for government power, but a charter of the citizen's protection against the government."

-Ayn Rand-

Offline Absalom

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Re: Gaming Out a MAGA Party
« Reply #97 on: December 20, 2020, 04:07:06 am »
That's really beautiful and all.  But how did all that morph into this:
----------------------
Respectfully, I'll have to rework some of the language.

Offline FeelNoPain

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Re: Gaming Out a MAGA Party
« Reply #98 on: December 20, 2020, 09:40:40 am »
Mitch and the boys rolling up their sleeves:

"If you think what we did to the Tea Party was sumthin,' what until you see the dirty tricks we've been saving for Trump if he pulls this MAGA party stunt..."
"I’d like to begin by addressing the heinous attack on the United States Capitol. Like all Americans I am outraged by the violence, lawlessness and mayhem...

To demonstrators who infiltrated the Capitol: you have defiled the seat of American democracy. To those who engage in the acts of violence and destruction: you do not represent our country. And to those who broke the law: you will pay." - President Donald J. Trump, January 7th, 2021

Offline Mesaclone

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Re: Gaming Out a MAGA Party
« Reply #99 on: December 20, 2020, 04:51:02 pm »
I'd prefer not to save a political party that doesn't deserve the effort for the convenience of a few good politicians @Mesaclone  These good men and women will have a choice to make.

Well, I'm a pragmatist. I don't believe in doing something "feel good" that is likely to result in continuous electoral defeat. That's not really any better than surrender...as it cedes the struggle to the Socialists and simply tears conservatives into two opposing camps.

I am NOT proposing we keep doing the same old GOP dance...in which our side of the aisle is too weak and too full of RINO's/NT's to truly resist. What I'm suggesting is a new paradigm, no less forcing change than the forming of a "new" party would achieve...but far more likely to defeat the Left and restore a semblance of Constitutionalism in this country.

In this struggle, there is no such thing as "noble defeat"...and that is precisely what I believe the forming of a new conservative party guarantees...defeat. We have to uphold conservative principles and fight back...as the President is doing....but we must do so intelligently and in a way that makes strategic sense. We can't just hide in our cabins and declare ourselves in the right...that is sound and fury signifying...nothing. If we hope to take this country back, we have to persuade Americans of the "rightness" of our positions...spinning off into a hard right "new" party that can only garner 30-35% support accomplishes exactly nothing.

As I said, if the President leads us in that direction...I will follow...but I believe he is going to turn the GOP into what it should have been all along. A party centered on the middle class, in the Reagan mold, while showing the NT/RINO's the door....let them go form their own shitty and electorally insignificant party.
« Last Edit: December 20, 2020, 04:53:31 pm by Mesaclone »
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