Author Topic: Gaming Out a MAGA Party  (Read 6568 times)

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Offline roamer_1

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Re: Gaming Out a MAGA Party
« Reply #175 on: December 22, 2020, 05:19:49 pm »
 


@Mesaclone  @roamer_1

I do.

His position is the selfish position of putting self and ego ahead of what is in the long-term interests of the nation. Trump,as a man,and even as a President is a temporary thing. He is nothing more than the "tool" that is available that is in the best position to turn around the destruction of America.

Roamer and the others are putting self ahead of nation by acting like spoiled 3 year olds.

@sneakypete
Now see Pete, I see that the other way around... All you panty throwers running after Tumpy like love struck teens are an embarassment and a waste of time. I don't want to have his baby. So what?
« Last Edit: December 22, 2020, 05:21:13 pm by roamer_1 »

Offline Mesaclone

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Re: Gaming Out a MAGA Party
« Reply #176 on: December 22, 2020, 05:21:16 pm »
   WE need another Leader, someone that didn't say in March 2018 "I will never sign another (CR) bill like this again,"

Corbe. 74 million people say otherwise.

Find me a politician who has never changed a position, said something stupid, nor compromised against their inclination to achieve broader goals. Heck, I can only think of one HUMAN being who could live up to such a standard. Trump is imperfect...but there is no one else on the right with an iota of his charisma, strength and political instincts...and no one else who fights so hard for the blue collar, America loving, people of this country. That sounds cliche and schmaltzy...and it is...but its clear as day.
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Offline roamer_1

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Re: Gaming Out a MAGA Party
« Reply #177 on: December 22, 2020, 05:25:20 pm »
   WE need another Leader, someone that didn't say in March 2018 "I will never sign another (CR) bill like this again,"

Damn straight. Fiscal Conservatism is just as much conservatism as anything... And in fact is very probably the most important aspect... Many think rights would be more important - but a fed too weak to matter can't do anything to your rights anyway - And the way to make em week is to starve and choke them out. And what that means plainly is fiscal conservatism.

Offline Mesaclone

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Re: Gaming Out a MAGA Party
« Reply #178 on: December 22, 2020, 05:26:26 pm »
@sneakypete
Now see Pete, I see that the other way around... All you panty throwers running after Tumpy like love struck teens are an embarassment and a waste of time. I don't want to have his baby. So what?

Really? Is that all you got...panty throwers? We follow the man because he fights back against this Socialist tide...the day he stops...none of us follow. Trump succeeds because of us, not the other way around. We're not infatuated children or groupies...much as you want to hold us to such an idiotic notion...I imagine you do so because it makes you feel better in some sad way.

Either way, find us someone else with that fight in them, that charisma to create enthusiasm, that energy and devotion to the middle class...and you'll see a tidal wave of support. But the truth is there's no one else out there right now with that combination of ability, focus and direction.
« Last Edit: December 22, 2020, 05:28:36 pm by Mesaclone »
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Offline roamer_1

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Re: Gaming Out a MAGA Party
« Reply #179 on: December 22, 2020, 05:34:31 pm »
Really? Is that all you got...panty throwers? We follow the man because he fights back against this Socialist tide...the day he stops...none of us follow. Trump succeeds because of us, not the other way around. We're not infatuated children or groupies...much as you want to hold us to such an idiotic notion...I imagine you do so because it makes you feel better in some sad way.

Either way, find us someone else with that fight in them, that charisma to create enthusiasm, that energy and devotion to the middle class...and you'll see a tidal wave of support. But the truth is there's no one else out there right now with that combination of ability, focus and direction.

I know that's what you think - else you would not be panty throwers.
But he has stopped nothing. He has fought nothing. He just looked damn good looking like he was.

I won't find you someone else. Your knee-jerk need to follow someone is abhorrent to me.

Offline sneakypete

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Re: Gaming Out a MAGA Party
« Reply #180 on: December 22, 2020, 05:43:59 pm »
While I agree with you entirely on that, its still everyone's free choice. Doesn't make it a wise or ethical choice, but that right is still sacrosanct.

@Mesaclone

I am NOT disagreeing with that,I am merely naming them for what they are.
Anyone who isn't paranoid in 2021 just isn't thinking clearly!

Offline sneakypete

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Re: Gaming Out a MAGA Party
« Reply #181 on: December 22, 2020, 05:48:57 pm »
Really? Is that all you got...panty throwers? We follow the man because he fights back against this Socialist tide...the day he stops...none of us follow. Trump succeeds because of us, not the other way around. We're not infatuated children or groupies...much as you want to hold us to such an idiotic notion...I imagine you do so because it makes you feel better in some sad way.

Either way, find us someone else with that fight in them, that charisma to create enthusiasm, that energy and devotion to the middle class...and you'll see a tidal wave of support. But the truth is there's no one else out there right now with that combination of ability, focus and direction.

@Mesaclone @roamer_1

Thank you. You said it for me better than I could have said it myself.
Anyone who isn't paranoid in 2021 just isn't thinking clearly!

Offline Mesaclone

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Re: Gaming Out a MAGA Party
« Reply #182 on: December 22, 2020, 06:01:49 pm »
@Mesaclone @roamer_1

Thank you. You said it for me better than I could have said it myself.

And with Cruz now CLEARLY a staunch ally of the President...and likewise for people like Noem, Crenshaw, Biggs, and well over 100 congressman and a good 30 or so Senators...the potential for truly tearing down and rebuilding the GOP is there. Trump can dominate this new party and make it a MAGA party...many have failed in the past to do so...but they weren't President Trump. He WILL get it done. Like all parties...it won't suddenly become perfect...but it will become staunchly conservative, populist and middle class focused. I think that is what the vast majority of conservatives want from their leadership...and its sad we haven't been able to find it in the interval between Reagan and Trump.

You see, people like Roamer/Jazz/goat aren't afraid that the party WON'T change under Trump's leadership...they are afraid that it will. They oppose NOTHING more than they oppose President Trump...they'd rather the Socialist win every election if it meant defeat for Trump. And that says everything any of us need to know about these folks.

So RIV, I think the world of you...but unless you prefer the Socialist Left defeat President Trump at every turn...you are no true ally of Roamer and his fellow travelers. I don't believe you're content to see the "Right" burn as long as it means President Trump loses...and that's where roamer and his ilk are, that is their core goal...because they believe defeating Trump IS saving conservatism.
« Last Edit: December 22, 2020, 06:07:58 pm by Mesaclone »
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Offline Right_in_Virginia

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Re: Gaming Out a MAGA Party
« Reply #183 on: December 22, 2020, 06:25:57 pm »
And with Cruz now CLEARLY a staunch ally of the President...

Let's wait until Jan 6 before passing this scepter to Cruz.

So RIV, I think the world of you...but unless you prefer the Socialist Left defeat President Trump at every turn...you are no true ally of Roamer and his fellow travelers. I don't believe you're content to see the "Right" burn as long as it means President Trump loses...and that's where roamer and his ilk are, that is their core goal...because they believe defeating Trump IS saving conservatism.

You're too cute by half @Mesaclone  If you want to speak about me or to me stop with the RIV, it's @Right_in_Virginia

Schumer and McConnell are already making deals to override the President's veto of the defense bill.  The boys are best buds again.  Thune has said any effort to "interfere" with the proceedings on Jan 6 will "go down like a shot dog".

Kill the GOP.  Amputate it.  Stomp it to death.  Bury it deep in the mud and cut off all oxygen.  Just. Do. It.

Enough.





« Last Edit: December 22, 2020, 06:29:28 pm by Right_in_Virginia »

Offline roamer_1

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Re: Gaming Out a MAGA Party
« Reply #184 on: December 22, 2020, 06:36:14 pm »
You see, people like Roamer/Jazz/goat aren't afraid that the party WON'T change under Trump's leadership...they are afraid that it will. They oppose NOTHING more than they oppose President Trump...they'd rather the Socialist win every election if it meant defeat for Trump. And that says everything any of us need to know about these folks.


Nah... I just don't see much difference between the two. Still Big.gov, and that's what we're supposed to be fighting AGAINST...

I am not swayed by trinkets and shiny sh*t. I care not for candy thrown from the front of the parade. I am a meat and potatoes kinda guy. So when y'all are ready to quit pissin around and go for something REAL - Like REAL LAWS passed that favor conservatism, which is only and all that will favor this nation... Like REAL balanced budgets and REAL spending cuts, and the kinda stuff that will actually DO something to diminish the power of the federal behemoth...

THEN don't be surprised to find me going your way - Not because I am following some idiot prince, but rather because that's where I was going anyway.

Offline sneakypete

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Re: Gaming Out a MAGA Party
« Reply #185 on: December 22, 2020, 06:43:43 pm »
Quote from: Right_in_Virginia link=topic=422731.msg2348855#msg2348855 date=1608661557

Let's wait until Jan 6 before passing this scepter to Cruz.
[/quote

I agree. Cruz is one of the smartest politicians going,but he can't be trusted. He only pops up as a conservative when his rating drop. Then he talks some of the best trash going,and folds when the attention fades.

The one thing he can always be trusted to do is support Ted Cruz.



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Offline bilo

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Re: Gaming Out a MAGA Party
« Reply #186 on: December 22, 2020, 07:01:23 pm »
Corbe. 74 million people say otherwise.

Find me a politician who has never changed a position, said something stupid, nor compromised against their inclination to achieve broader goals. Heck, I can only think of one HUMAN being who could live up to such a standard. Trump is imperfect...but there is no one else on the right with an iota of his charisma, strength and political instincts...and no one else who fights so hard for the blue collar, America loving, people of this country. That sounds cliche and schmaltzy...and it is...but its clear as day.

That's it in a nutshell!

It's also why, if Trump were to start a third party I would be with him on day one.
A stranger in a hostile foreign land I used to call home

Offline Mesaclone

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Re: Gaming Out a MAGA Party
« Reply #187 on: December 22, 2020, 07:07:45 pm »
Nah... I just don't see much difference between the two. Still Big.gov, and that's what we're supposed to be fighting AGAINST...

I am not swayed by trinkets and shiny sh*t. I care not for candy thrown from the front of the parade. I am a meat and potatoes kinda guy. So when y'all are ready to quit pissin around and go for something REAL - Like REAL LAWS passed that favor conservatism, which is only and all that will favor this nation... Like REAL balanced budgets and REAL spending cuts, and the kinda stuff that will actually DO something to diminish the power of the federal behemoth...

THEN don't be surprised to find me going your way - Not because I am following some idiot prince, but rather because that's where I was going anyway.

Your philosophy would be great...in a dictatorship. If we could just dictate a straight GOP wish list into legislation, we'd all be in favor of all of that. And nobody is "p*ssing around, or looking for candy tossed to the masses...and we are all just as meat and potatoes as you are. The real difference is we understand the Reagan maxim of getting the MOST conservative legislation possible...an 80% conservative solution is far better than a 90% Socialist solution...which is what we get when conservatives abdicate their role in the electoral process and hide in their mountain cabins like wannabe John Galt's.

Quite frankly, I don't think we disagree doctrinally on where the GOP is wrong. But we clearly do not agree on solution. Yours is "I get 100% my way or take my ball and go home" and I believe the only answer in a Republic is to hold to the Reagan maxim of fighting for the most conservative legislation possible. Clearly a major tactical difference in our approaches...I think yours is self defeating but I admire the purity of it.
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Offline Mesaclone

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Re: Gaming Out a MAGA Party
« Reply #188 on: December 22, 2020, 07:08:15 pm »
That's it in a nutshell!

It's also why, if Trump were to start a third party I would be with him on day one.

Ditto...where he leads, I follow.
We have the best government that money can buy. Mark Twain

Offline roamer_1

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Re: Gaming Out a MAGA Party
« Reply #189 on: December 22, 2020, 07:27:43 pm »
Your philosophy would be great...in a dictatorship. If we could just dictate a straight GOP wish list into legislation, we'd all be in favor of all of that. And nobody is "p*ssing around, or looking for candy tossed to the masses...and we are all just as meat and potatoes as you are. The real difference is we understand the Reagan maxim of getting the MOST conservative legislation possible...an 80% conservative solution is far better than a 90% Socialist solution...which is what we get when conservatives abdicate their role in the electoral process and hide in their mountain cabins like wannabe John Galt's.

Quite frankly, I don't think we disagree doctrinally on where the GOP is wrong. But we clearly do not agree on solution. Yours is "I get 100% my way or take my ball and go home" and I believe the only answer in a Republic is to hold to the Reagan maxim of fighting for the most conservative legislation possible. Clearly a major tactical difference in our approaches...I think yours is self defeating but I admire the purity of it.

Yeah whatever. You're talking right, but it doesn't pass the smell test... There hasn't been conservative legislation since '94, and damn little of it then. I am done listening to all y'all, and your endless promises and sweet talking. It all adds up to exactly NOTHING. Thirty damn years and not a single win. Y'all ain't following Reagan, nor Goldwater, and you are satisfied with trinkets, as the last four years plainly displays. All for naught. Not a single gain. If Tumpy's legal maneuvers don't pan out (which they seem not to be), the whole damn show was just another flash in the pan.

So I don't know why you are surprised that I wander off back to my mountain cabin in disgust.
Like I said, when you're done pissin around call me.

SHOW ME THE MONEY. Till then it's all bullshit. And in fact, you can't show me the money, can you...
« Last Edit: December 22, 2020, 07:29:01 pm by roamer_1 »

Offline Weird Tolkienish Figure

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Re: Gaming Out a MAGA Party
« Reply #190 on: December 23, 2020, 02:46:32 am »
Yeah whatever. You're talking right, but it doesn't pass the smell test... There hasn't been conservative legislation since '94, and damn little of it then. I am done listening to all y'all, and your endless promises and sweet talking. It all adds up to exactly NOTHING. Thirty damn years and not a single win. Y'all ain't following Reagan, nor Goldwater, and you are satisfied with trinkets, as the last four years plainly displays. All for naught. Not a single gain. If Tumpy's legal maneuvers don't pan out (which they seem not to be), the whole damn show was just another flash in the pan.

So I don't know why you are surprised that I wander off back to my mountain cabin in disgust.
Like I said, when you're done pissin around call me.

SHOW ME THE MONEY. Till then it's all bullshit. And in fact, you can't show me the money, can you...

Well... the GOP would have to won a cloture-proof majority to pass legislation, has that happened since 1994?

Offline roamer_1

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Re: Gaming Out a MAGA Party
« Reply #191 on: December 23, 2020, 03:16:29 am »
Well... the GOP would have to won a cloture-proof majority to pass legislation, has that happened since 1994?

Excuses, excuses... Somehow, the left always gets their way, even with the so-called right in power, and somehow the right always gets excuses.

How many serious victories for the left moving their agenda forward?
And how many for the right?

The math ain't hard.

Offline Mesaclone

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Re: Gaming Out a MAGA Party
« Reply #192 on: December 23, 2020, 05:13:28 am »
Excuses, excuses... Somehow, the left always gets their way, even with the so-called right in power, and somehow the right always gets excuses.

How many serious victories for the left moving their agenda forward?
And how many for the right?

The math ain't hard.

If the Left always got its way we wouldn’t be here able to freely discuss this issue. Nor would I have an AR15 in my bedroom rack. So you’re clearly wrong on that point.
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Offline roamer_1

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Re: Gaming Out a MAGA Party
« Reply #193 on: December 23, 2020, 05:16:51 am »
If the Left always got its way we wouldn’t be here able to freely discuss this issue. Nor would I have an AR15 in my bedroom rack. So you’re clearly wrong on that point.

No I am absolutely right. Stalling tactics are not wins. The government has moved inexorably left throughout the last fifty years with nothing  - NOTHING- to pull it back to the right. SO your argument is that we didn't lose as much as we could have? Is THAT your silver lining?

Offline Mesaclone

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Re: Gaming Out a MAGA Party
« Reply #194 on: December 23, 2020, 03:25:10 pm »
No I am absolutely right. Stalling tactics are not wins. The government has moved inexorably left throughout the last fifty years with nothing  - NOTHING- to pull it back to the right. SO your argument is that we didn't lose as much as we could have? Is THAT your silver lining?

So the country is drifting to the Left...and your solution is to fracture the Right into opposing factions that vote for different candidates. Ya....that sounds like a real solution.

Its a Republic. You can't do anything without the votes. What you're calling for is ceding the White House, Senate and House to the Left...getting rid of the only really effective fighter we have against this Socialist tide in President Trump. Again, really smart.

You are GREAT at identifying the problem...highlighting all the failures of the GOP and conservatives over the years...ironically...we all agree on those failures. But its not enough to simply know what's NOT working...and then to do nothing. You offer NOTHING in terms of solutions...beyond tired maxims, cliche's and homilies. Fun for you...fun read...achieves absolutely nothing beyond letting you "feel" wise and act condescending.

We must have a strategy...an intelligent and well thought out concept of HOW to win votes and persuade the nation to move back to the right. And some party discipline...its great for conservatives to argue policy amongst ourselves but at some point we MUST unite and go to the ballot box. If we can't do that, we lose...and the nation loses. Period.

The President's leadership brought 11 million more people to the ballot box on his behalf in 2020, tremendous growth for an encumbent President...and likely many more votes were stolen...THAT is how we win the country for conservatives. Nobody idolizes ANY leader on our side of the aisle...but you are damn wrong if you think we don't need leaders who will step up and aggressively, OPENLY, fight back against liberalism.

Your "null" strategy is self satisfying bilge. Anyone can criticize, few have the will to take real action needed to correct mistakes and win elections. Your only plan is do nothing, "vote 'em all out", arm up and hide in our cabins until the Republic falls. Well...'F that.
« Last Edit: December 23, 2020, 03:30:19 pm by Mesaclone »
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Offline roamer_1

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Re: Gaming Out a MAGA Party
« Reply #195 on: December 23, 2020, 11:00:17 pm »
So the country is drifting to the Left...and your solution is to fracture the Right into opposing factions that vote for different candidates. Ya....that sounds like a real solution.


My solution is to reform the right into something that actually works. That actually fights, not just mouthing platitudes.

Quote
Its a Republic. You can't do anything without the votes. What you're calling for is ceding the White House, Senate and House to the Left...getting rid of the only really effective fighter we have against this Socialist tide in President Trump. Again, really smart.

That would be a point if the right were not utterly ineffective - To include Tumpy - The left is winning because it has no opposition. The way that gets fixed is to create opposition - Something the Republicans are proven to be utterly without. FOR FIFTY FRIGGIN YEARS, now.

Quote
You are GREAT at identifying the problem...highlighting all the failures of the GOP and conservatives over the years...ironically...we all agree on those failures. But its not enough to simply know what's NOT working...and then to do nothing. You offer NOTHING in terms of solutions...beyond tired maxims, cliche's and homilies. Fun for you...fun read...achieves absolutely nothing beyond letting you "feel" wise and act condescending.

No - My solution is as necessary as it is obvious: The definition of insanity is doing the same thing over and over and expecting different results. At some point one must naturally cease beating the dead horse - It ain't gonna pull that plow.

So the solution is to do otherwise. Go buy a horse that WILL pull the plow.

Quote
We must have a strategy...an intelligent and well thought out concept of HOW to win votes and persuade the nation to move back to the right. And some party discipline...its great for conservatives to argue policy amongst ourselves but at some point we MUST unite and go to the ballot box. If we can't do that, we lose...and the nation loses. Period.

You've 'strategerized' yourself into being wholly without effect - EVEN when you think you win, you get nothing at best, or more likely you are actually losing ground. Pyrrhic victories are the Republicans' specialty.

Quote

The President's leadership brought 11 million more people to the ballot box on his behalf in 2020, tremendous growth for an encumbent President...and likely many more votes were stolen...THAT is how we win the country for conservatives. Nobody idolizes ANY leader on our side of the aisle...but you are damn wrong if you think we don't need leaders who will step up and aggressively, OPENLY, fight back against liberalism.

That would be fine if that were what's happening.

Quote
Your "null" strategy is self satisfying bilge. Anyone can criticize, few have the will to take real action needed to correct mistakes and win elections. Your only plan is do nothing, "vote 'em all out", arm up and hide in our cabins until the Republic falls. Well...'F that.

Have at it then. Keep on beating that dead horse for all the good it will do you. Keep trying to control the beast, figuring it will eat your enemies but not yourself. So far, your batting average isn't enough to qualify for little league... But you go to war with the army you have, right.  *****rollingeyes*****

I have fought as hard as anyone here. I have actually and effectively worked to bring decent PAC money into being, and shepherded those clients through decades... FOR NOTHING.

You want a fight, I'll fight. I have proven it. But at some point you have to win. At some point you have to actually move the ball. That has never happened. NEVER. All that money and all those promises amounted to jack-sh*t.

No more. Put up or shut up. Show me the damn money. Win dammit. Ya bunch of losers. Always satisfied with the consolation prize. Never ever getting anything for it. Other than the kewpie doll. I see yet another one of those coming right up. woohoo.
« Last Edit: December 23, 2020, 11:02:26 pm by roamer_1 »

Offline Mesaclone

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Re: Gaming Out a MAGA Party
« Reply #196 on: December 23, 2020, 11:28:42 pm »
My solution is to reform the right into something that actually works. That actually fights, not just mouthing platitudes. Ironic. What you just uttered is mere platitude....not a plan or even a concept of how to achieve ANYTHING.

That would be a point if the right were not utterly ineffective - To include Tumpy - The left is winning because it has no opposition. The way that gets fixed is to create opposition - Something the Republicans are proven to be utterly without. FOR FIFTY FRIGGIN YEARS, now. If there were ZERO opposition as you suggest, we'd all be Vegans...none of us would own guns...and you wouldn't possess ANY private property. So clearly, you are entirely wrong on this point.

No - My solution is as necessary as it is obvious: The definition of insanity is doing the same thing over and over and expecting different results. At some point one must naturally cease beating the dead horse - It ain't gonna pull that plow. That's one definition of insanity, another is beating a soft brain against a hard wall as you suggest we do.

So the solution is to do otherwise. Go buy a horse that WILL pull the plow.That, again, is not a solution...its just another platitude. We have a horse who IS pulling the plow and you undermine him at every turn.

You've 'strategerized' yourself into being wholly without effect - EVEN when you think you win, you get nothing at best, or more likely you are actually losing ground. Pyrrhic victories are the Republicans' specialty.I want the same victories you do...ditto for President Trump. Your solution to Pyrrhic victories is Pyrrhic defeats...both are awful, but yours ends in even greater failure.

That would be fine if that were what's happening.

Have at it then. Keep on beating that dead horse for all the good it will do you. Keep trying to control the beast, figuring it will eat your enemies but not yourself. So far, your batting average isn't enough to qualify for little league... But you go to war with the army you have, right.  *****rollingeyes***** Not looking to beat the same horse, looking to build a new one...which is what the President has been fighting to do for 4 years now.

I have fought as hard as anyone here. I have actually and effectively worked to bring decent PAC money into being, and shepherded those clients through decades... FOR NOTHING.Kudos to you...right up to the point you gave up.

You want a fight, I'll fight. I have proven it. But at some point you have to win. At some point you have to actually move the ball. That has never happened. NEVER. All that money and all those promises amounted to jack-sh*t.Nobody wins this fight...not even the Founding Fathers...but we win where its possible and keep fighting.

No more. Put up or shut up. Show me the damn money. Win dammit. Ya bunch of losers. Always satisfied with the consolation prize. Never ever getting anything for it. Other than the kewpie doll. I see yet another one of those coming right up. woohoo.No one is "satisfied" but you have no realistic...or even possible...alternatives to offer. Anyone can bitch about what is...that changes nothing.

Its not your goal I question, its your path to achieving it...or lack thereof. Just saying "get fighting conservatives who'll fight for conservative ideals" means nothing unless we have a plan to find and promote such people and then to support them in the fight. All your offering is complaints about the status quo...what ALL of us need are real...actionable and concrete solutions...not platitudes.
We have the best government that money can buy. Mark Twain

Offline roamer_1

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Re: Gaming Out a MAGA Party
« Reply #197 on: December 24, 2020, 12:24:14 am »
What you just uttered is mere platitude....not a plan or even a concept of how to achieve ANYTHING.

Nah. My money's where my mouth is. My efforts remain in the TEA Party and the CP. And by far and away, I have removed myself from the national scene, to include long support for RTL, NRA, Heritage, and every other national foundation I have been funding toward my own betrayal. My efforts and my money are focused locally, and in more diverse venues - And away from ineffectual politics. I will not finance my own demise with my own fortune and blood anymore.

I can just as easy pour my efforts into the Church at the local level and see real change - Real help to real people, and every bit as much in line with my conservative nature - far more so than the bitter gruel I have been forced to endure through Republican activism (SPIT!).

Quote
If there were ZERO opposition as you suggest, we'd all be Vegans...none of us would own guns...and you wouldn't possess ANY private property. So clearly, you are entirely wrong on this point.

Riiiight. Shut up and eat your damn peas.
I've had more than enough peas thanks. I'll eat steak and potatoes from now on.

I am not wrong - The nation is not 'drifting' left as you would describe it. It is speeding left, pell-mell, with nothing to stand in it's way. Especially Republicans.

Quote
That's one definition of insanity, another is beating a soft brain against a hard wall as you suggest we do.

Yep - but only once. Throw the bastards out and put actual conservatives in there instead. Put a Tom 'The Hammer' Delay at the helm. Put Conservatives at the levers of power, and actually DO conservative sh*t... For real. Anything else is a spectacular waste of time... As it has been for literally half a century. Throw the bastards out - ALL of them - And maybe you'll have something I would care to support going forward - What y'all are now is nothing to me. And has been for a long time.

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That, again, is not a solution...its just another platitude. We have a horse who IS pulling the plow and you undermine him at every turn.

ROTFLMAO!! You prove my point. So blind you can't even see - That ain't a horse.

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I want the same victories you do...ditto for President Trump. Your solution to Pyrrhic victories is Pyrrhic defeats...both are awful, but yours ends in even greater failure.

No. Mine ends with me not pouring money and blood into my own demise. That is all. I am going the same way whether under Democrat or Republican control - A way I do not want to go. So I will not support either one. You ain't fighting. And you ain't winning. Failure is the same, helping y'all out or not. You just claim to buy me a day or two. No help at all.

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Not looking to beat the same horse, looking to build a new one...which is what the President has been fighting to do for 4 years now.

Not one that is any different from the one laying there in the field.

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Kudos to you...right up to the point you gave up.

I didn't give up at all. Still doing what I can and seeing real results... I just gave up on y'all. And rightly so. Y'all ain't going where I am going - Seems the right thing to get off the bus at that point.

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Nobody wins this fight...not even the Founding Fathers...but we win where its possible and keep fighting.

Y'all haven't won anything at all, not a damn thing one, my whole life long. You're a waste of time and money.

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No one is "satisfied" but you have no realistic...or even possible...alternatives to offer. Anyone can bitch about what is...that changes nothing.

See above. First step is to stop supporting what is ineffectual and start supporting what works - That in which I can see REAL and lasting change. That ain't found in you.

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Its not your goal I question, its your path to achieving it...or lack thereof. Just saying "get fighting conservatives who'll fight for conservative ideals" means nothing unless we have a plan to find and promote such people and then to support them in the fight.

I have done that for years. makes no difference as long as y'all won't back em, and fill the government with RINOs because you need the butts - Well that's what you are getting. Nothing butt.

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All your offering is complaints about the status quo...what ALL of us need are real...actionable and concrete solutions...not platitudes.

I have given the only ones I know - Foremost to ALWAYS vote for Conservatives and never anything less... And to quit throwing good money and blood after bad. Invest your blood and treasure in what counts, and in what yields good fruit. You get more of what you support. Both of those very simple things should be as plain as the nose on your face. That they are not shows exactly why I will offer you nothing but derision.

Offline Jazzhead

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Re: Gaming Out a MAGA Party
« Reply #198 on: December 24, 2020, 01:41:11 am »
The perfect can be the enemy of the good.   That's basically my critique of @roamer_1 , but I suspect he cares less than zero what I think;  he strikes me as a happy man, in no small part because he's walled himself off from the chaos. 

But the implacably imperfect is an even worse enemy of the good.   Trump's flaws of self-absorption and Ahab-like thirst for revenge are going to destroy what ought to have been an historic legacy of achievement.   He is the Shakespearian tragedy of our time.   
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Offline roamer_1

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Re: Gaming Out a MAGA Party
« Reply #199 on: December 24, 2020, 02:20:03 am »
The perfect can be the enemy of the good.   That's basically my critique of @roamer_1 , but I suspect he cares less than zero what I think;  he strikes me as a happy man, in no small part because he's walled himself off from the chaos.

Actually @Jazzhead I don't care what you think about me - That is true - But no more than any other... The folks I would care about their thinking I can count on one hand. But with that being unattainable, I do care about your opinions,  because while I am often found in your opposition, I do give you credit for being a thinking man, for having courage enough to stand upon your convictions in the face of monumental pressure, and in being rather kind in your conversations - I don't often recall you purposefully offending at a personal level... All these things give me reason to respect you, and I often enjoy debate with you. While I do not agree with you much, I have never been among those bent upon your exclusion here. I had once endeavored to PM you in that regard, when you were getting hammered a while back - but I was informed that I had been blocked. I may be comfortably in your opposition, but I would be happy if all my opposition showed your caliber of debate and consideration.

As to the rest - Yes, I suppose, the perfect can be the enemy of the good, but what is left unsaid in that is the scale upon which perfect and good are to be determined. if 'good' is found mere increments away from the liberal position, just because it is somewhat better than they are, I would not agree at all. That is not good, nor even good enough... Not by far.

The margin for me - where 'good' is attained, is where all the unmovable principles of all the Conservative factions are preserved and supported - Because, being intertwined, those principles are not served without them all being served. So anything short of that is literally utter loss. And I would be happy to have that conversation in order to demonstrate the truth of that statement.

That to me is where good begins. If you want to go on to envision 'perfect' we can go from there - For there is much compromise beyond that point. And none at all below it.

Yes I am basically a happy guy - Remarkably so in the face of a pretty rough row to hoe. But I am in no way 'walled off' from anything. That I happen to be in a cabin in the Rockies is because it is my natural state. And that I have bought property up in the holler and plan to end up there, way off the pavement, and on past the gravel is nothing more than more of the same - It is where I belong.

Nothing more than that. That it puts me away from the crap that is sure to ensue all too shortly is nothing but a convenience - I was going there anyhow.

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But the implacably imperfect is an even worse enemy of the good.   Trump's flaws of self-absorption and Ahab-like thirst for revenge are going to destroy what ought to have been an historic legacy of achievement.   He is the Shakespearian tragedy of our time.   

That we likely agree upon, but Tumpy himself is incidental to me. The implacably imperfect is something one necessarily must measure more over the years - Years where Tumpy was not even present on the right.