Arizona: Legal Updates

[jafo2010]

Conservatives should NOT get expectations high on this audit.  I do not expect great things from this.  No more than I expect anything from Durham's investigation.  All Kobucki Theater.

[Hoodat]

AZ Secretary of State Katie Hobbs is Out of Control on Ballot Audit

Rachel Alexander   |   May 31, 2021 12:01 AM

ome areas of the country haven’t given up on investigating voter fraud during the presidential election, including Arizona and Georgia. But it’s not easy, because the left is going all out to stop them. Here in Arizona, the main opposition is coming from the Arizona Secretary of State, far left Katie Hobbs. This woman is frightening. She is trying to make a name for herself since she wants to run for governor in 2022.

The Arizona Senate ordered an audit of Maricopa County ballots earlier this year, taking possession of 2.1 million ballots and nearly 400 election machines and turning them over to be audited by cyber firms. It just doesn’t seem very plausible that Joe Biden won in Maricopa County, considering it’s a Republican stronghold (the words of CBS) with more registered Republicans than Democrats, and considering how well Republicans performed in other races here. As of February, there were just over 909,658 registered Republicans to 814,101 Democrats, a striking difference. 

In the Maricopa County Treasurer’s race, which featured two non-incumbents, the Republican handily beat the Democrat 46.65% to 42.46%. The Maricopa County Recorder, an incumbent Democrat who oversees Maricopa County Elections, lost to a Republican. In contrast, Biden supposedly beat Trump in the county by about two points.  .  .  .

https://townhall.com/columnists/rachelalexander/2021/05/31/az-secretary-of-state-katie-hobbs-is-out-of-control-on-ballot-audit-n2590243

[Hoodat]

Arizona audit - Live cameras:  https://azaudit.org/

[Hoodat]

Audit Organizer Says Hundreds of Thousands of Ballots MISSING In Arizona, Boxes Full of Blank Ballots

PATRICK HOWLEY   |   June 14, 2021

Several hundred thousand votes that were counted in Maricopa County, Arizona are associated with missing ballots, according to an audit organizer who is speaking regularly with people on the audit floor.

“We found a ballot shortage, anywhere from 5 to 10 percent of the votes,” Josh Barnett, an audit organizer who led the affidavit drive to make the audit happen, tells NATIONAL FILE. “It looks like a couple hundred thousand ballots are unaccounted for. The ballots are missing.”

“I also know that there were boxes filled with blank ballots in those pallets. There were blanks in there,” Barnett said, citing a person who is frequently at the audit site as part of the audit process. “They (election officials) were doing it for appearance, to try to hide the fact that ballots are missing by saying, ‘It’s okay, they’re all right here.’ But the ballots are blank.”

https://nationalfile.com/audit-organizer-says-hundreds-of-thousands-of-ballots-missing-in-arizona-boxes-full-of-blank-ballots/


If this proves to be the case, then the results of the audit will be considerably off from the official results reported last year.

[BassWrangler]

Audit Organizer Says Hundreds of Thousands of Ballots MISSING In Arizona, Boxes Full of Blank Ballots

PATRICK HOWLEY   |   June 14, 2021

Several hundred thousand votes that were counted in Maricopa County, Arizona are associated with missing ballots, according to an audit organizer who is speaking regularly with people on the audit floor.

“We found a ballot shortage, anywhere from 5 to 10 percent of the votes,” Josh Barnett, an audit organizer who led the affidavit drive to make the audit happen, tells NATIONAL FILE. “It looks like a couple hundred thousand ballots are unaccounted for. The ballots are missing.”

“I also know that there were boxes filled with blank ballots in those pallets. There were blanks in there,” Barnett said, citing a person who is frequently at the audit site as part of the audit process. “They (election officials) were doing it for appearance, to try to hide the fact that ballots are missing by saying, ‘It’s okay, they’re all right here.’ But the ballots are blank.”

https://nationalfile.com/audit-organizer-says-hundreds-of-thousands-of-ballots-missing-in-arizona-boxes-full-of-blank-ballots/


If this proves to be the case, then the results of the audit will be considerably off from the official results reported last year.

What this makes me think is the Dems decided it was better to destroy the counterfeit ballots than to let them be discovered by the audit. I bet they destroyed an equal number of legitimate ballots that were votes for Trump, so the totals will still reflect a Biden "win" but will be an overall lower vote total.

[Victoria33]

@Cyber Liberty

Heard yesterday, some people working on the audit said they did not know what to do, no one trained them to do that.

[roamer_1]

What this makes me think is the Dems decided it was better to destroy the counterfeit ballots than to let them be discovered by the audit. I bet they destroyed an equal number of legitimate ballots that were votes for Trump, so the totals will still reflect a Biden "win" but will be an overall lower vote total.

If it is an electronic fraud, there would be more count than ballots. 

[Cyber Liberty]

@Cyber Liberty

Heard yesterday, some people working on the audit said they did not know what to do, no one trained them to do that.

The leftist media talking point is "Cyber Ninjas have no experience in auditing elections," but the fact is, nobody has experience on forensic audits of elections.  What you heard sounds like it's straight from Fredo Cuomo's mouth.  I'll ignore that.

[BassWrangler]

If it is an electronic fraud, there would be more count than ballots. 

And therein lies the problem. I don't think we will ever know exactly what happended. I mean we will all suspect fraud, but proving it is damn near impossible because it's just too easy for the Dems to obfuscate. What we need are rules such as: if there is no chain of custody on a batch of ballots, all ballots in that batch will be discarded. But the Dems and the media will call this voter suppression.

We really need a deep mole in the Dem org to provide video and audio of them planning the fraud. A Project Veritas style operation. I'd also like to see mandatory death penalty for election fraud.

But I think the core problem is that we've turned into an amoral society with a significant percentage of the population that believes it's OK to cheat to win. It is as I have said earlier in the thread. We can't coexist with these people. It's not possible to pass laws that will solve the problem of a fundamentally amoral populace. They will always find a way to cheat. We need a national divorce and restoration to a federalist system.

[roamer_1]

And therein lies the problem. I don't think we will ever know exactly what happended. I mean we will all suspect fraud, but proving it is damn near impossible because it's just too easy for the Dems to obfuscate. What we need are rules such as: if there is no chain of custody on a batch of ballots, all ballots in that batch will be discarded. But the Dems and the media will call this voter suppression.

We really need a deep mole in the Dem org to provide video and audio of them planning the fraud. A Project Veritas style operation. I'd also like to see mandatory death penalty for election fraud.

But I think the core problem is that we've turned into an amoral society with a significant percentage of the population that believes it's OK to cheat to win. It is as I have said earlier in the thread. We can't coexist with these people. It's not possible to pass laws that will solve the problem of a fundamentally amoral populace. They will always find a way to cheat. We need a national divorce and restoration to a federalist system.

I agree with pretty near all of that. 

I am not as jaded as I seem though. I DO believe folks are generally fair minded... I have seen interviews with libs (Louder with Crowder Change my Mind for instance) where the rank and file suppose their side is fair and does not cheat.

There are two propagandae at work, convincing their acolytes of the evil promoted by the 'other side'... Which is why I often caution against the rumor mill on the right as much as on the left. And it is why, by the way, the only touchstone available to the Right are the Principles of Conservatism - There is no meaningful (veritable) truth otherwise that can be trusted...

I think the cheat will have more impact than most assume, and regardless of Dem obfuscation, tallies are tallies... Numbers mean things. Providing that the audit left itself auditable, that can be a powerful weapon against the cheaters.

[HoustonSam]

I think the cheat will have more impact than most assume, and regardless of Dem obfuscation, tallies are tallies... Numbers mean things. Providing that the audit left itself auditable, that can be a powerful weapon against the cheaters.

I doubt that any audit will turn up airtight proof of cheating on a scale to tip the most recent election.  I think it's highly likely audits will demonstrate that chain of custody issues, specific vote counting procedures, mismatches between the number of votes reported and the number of votes surrendered for auditing, etc, will demonstrate to voters that this election did not deliver a trustworthy result.

And that should motivate voters and their elected state legislators to tighten procedures considerably.  It will never be perfect but it can be a damn site better than it is.

But I'm also fundamentally with @BassWrangler; we cannot procedurally improve our way out of a problem caused by bad intentions on the other side, and I fully believe the other side *is* bad intentioned.  We might be able to better protect elections from those bad intentions, but the bad intentions remain and will lead to other instances of cheating, lying, and reducing the country to chaos in the pursuit of power.

[BassWrangler]

Many good points @HoustonSam , @roamer_1 .

Interesting times to live in.

[Bigun]

I doubt that any audit will turn up airtight proof of cheating on a scale to tip the most recent election.  I think it's highly likely audits will demonstrate that chain of custody issues, specific vote counting procedures, mismatches between the number of votes reported and the number of votes surrendered for auditing, etc, will demonstrate to voters that this election did not deliver a trustworthy result.

And that should motivate voters and their elected state legislators to tighten procedures considerably.  It will never be perfect but it can be a damn site better than it is.

But I'm also fundamentally with @BassWrangler; we cannot procedurally improve our way out of a problem caused by bad intentions on the other side, and I fully believe the other side *is* bad intentioned.  We might be able to better protect elections from those bad intentions, but the bad intentions remain and will lead to other instances of cheating, lying, and reducing the country to chaos in the pursuit of power.

[roamer_1]

I doubt that any audit will turn up airtight proof of cheating on a scale to tip the most recent election.  I think it's highly likely audits will demonstrate that chain of custody issues, specific vote counting procedures, mismatches between the number of votes reported and the number of votes surrendered for auditing, etc, will demonstrate to voters that this election did not deliver a trustworthy result.

And that should motivate voters and their elected state legislators to tighten procedures considerably.  It will never be perfect but it can be a damn site better than it is.

That is a likely assessment @HoustonSam . But AZ is playing this hand close to the chest, Which in the parlance, either means it is a bluff and it will fizzle out in the end, or it is a money hand. There is some hope in that.

But I'm also fundamentally with @BassWrangler; we cannot procedurally improve our way out of a problem caused by bad intentions on the other side, and I fully believe the other side *is* bad intentioned.  We might be able to better protect elections from those bad intentions, but the bad intentions remain and will lead to other instances of cheating, lying, and reducing the country to chaos in the pursuit of power.

I am largely aligned with both of y'all (little surprise in that). But what can shake it up is breaking through the liberal propaganda. Folks that catch them out in a lie will not be quick to lend them more support. I don;t see a massive impact on the voting system, even if they are caught out, and the fraud proved true. But there will be an impact on the left, as fair minded folks open their eyes. That, I think, is the best thing to be hoped for - more powerful the strictures put forth to limit the cheating itself.

[BassWrangler]

But what can shake it up is breaking through the liberal propaganda. Folks that catch them out in a lie will not be quick to lend them more support. I don;t see a massive impact on the voting system, even if they are caught out, and the fraud proved true. But there will be an impact on the left, as fair minded folks open their eyes. That, I think, is the best thing to be hoped for - more powerful the strictures put forth to limit the cheating itself.

Do you think most folks will get that message, or will it be lost amongst the leftist media propaganda?

[roamer_1]

Do you think most folks will get that message, or will it be lost amongst the leftist media propaganda?

Hard telling. But I will liken it to the WalkAway movement... Them folks, on the whole, are now vehemently opposed to the lies they once were made to believe. It is easy to get folks to walk down the garden path. But Katie bar the door if they ever do figure out they've been had. It is a game changer, and could make for a paradigm shift.

[Bigun]

When our rulers are free to do as they damned well please Constitutions and laws are meaningless.

There are thousands hacking at the branches of evil to one hacking at the root!

Henry David  Thoreau

[IsailedawayfromFR]

When our rulers are free to do as they damned well please Constitutions and laws are meaningless.

There are thousands hacking at the branches of evil to one hacking at the root!

Henry David  Thoreau

Absolutely.

People, not written laws, legislatures, governors or presidents, are the final arbiter.

The Constitution, written by the states, has already been proven to be meaningless by the actions of the Supreme Court in rejecting questions on the legitimacy of the recent election when the Constitution clearly recognized the obligations of that court to take up the Texas case.  17 states joined in this petition which was rejected by the court.

The role of the Supreme Court is explicitly described to take up and arbitrate confrontations between states and it failed its Constitutional duty to do so.

So states and their citizens are left to fend for themselves when the binding document upon which they joined the Union is disregarded.

[mystery-ak]

AZ Audit Reviewing Thousands of Ballots Where Machines Did Not Detect Vote for President, Audit Liaison Says
June 22, 2021
Written by Martin Walsh

Many have been arguing for months that the election audit in Maricopa County, Arizona, could pave the way for many other states to follow.

Now, we have another big update.

Ken Bennett, Senate liaison to the Maricopa County, Arizona, election audit, revealed there are more than 33,000 ballots from November’s election where voters made no selection for president or at least no votes that were detected by the voting machines.

“There were over 33,000 undervotes,” Bennett told The Western Journal.

more
https://conservativebrief.com/reviewing-thousands-43367/

[jafo2010]

The ONLY solution is paper ballots and end electronic voting.  It is too easy to cheat, and anyone that does not understand that, has limited knowledge of computers.

[Smokin Joe]

AZ Audit Reviewing Thousands of Ballots Where Machines Did Not Detect Vote for President, Audit Liaison Says
June 22, 2021
Written by Martin Walsh

Many have been arguing for months that the election audit in Maricopa County, Arizona, could pave the way for many other states to follow.

Now, we have another big update.

Ken Bennett, Senate liaison to the Maricopa County, Arizona, election audit, revealed there are more than 33,000 ballots from November’s election where voters made no selection for president or at least no votes that were detected by the voting machines.

“There were over 33,000 undervotes,” Bennett told The Western Journal.

more
https://conservativebrief.com/reviewing-thousands-43367/

Sharpies?

[DB]

Sharpies?

Wasn't the issue with Sharpies that they bled through the paper making the other side difficult to read for the scanner? The color of the ink can be important too.

[Smokin Joe]

Wasn't the issue with Sharpies that they bled through the paper making the other side difficult to read for the scanner? The color of the ink can be important too.

IIRC, the scanners would read marks made with ballpoint pens, but not those made with the sharpies.

[Cyber Liberty]

IIRC, the scanners would read marks made with ballpoint pens, but not those made with the sharpies.

The ballots in AZ were changed a lot from the ones two years before.  "Filling in ovals" is not as good as connecting the two ends of an arrow.  I hate it.  We also have video voting stations that create a paper tape with codes to be fed into a tabulator, similar to a grocery store receipt.  I hate that too.

BTW, can you guess what kind of pen was used for the "connect the arrow" ballots in use until 2020?

Sharpies.

[BassWrangler]

The ballots in AZ were changed a lot from the ones two years before.  "Filling in ovals" is not as good as connecting the two ends of an arrow.  I hate it.  We also have video voting stations that create a paper tape with codes to be fed into a tabulator, similar to a grocery store receipt.  I hate that too.

BTW, can you guess what kind of pen was used for the "connect the arrow" ballots in use until 2020?

Sharpies.

It's technically feasible, not even hard, to provide the voter with some printed receipt that he could use to validate that his vote was tabulated and who he voted for. This could be done so that Only someone with the receipt could do this, and not even the operators of the server could. That none of these electronic voting companies, to my knowledge anyway, has ever publicly proposed such a feature tells me that there is no demand for this from the states. I have always found this puzzling. I mean why spend all this money on electronic vote tabulation without taking advantage of what the tech could provide in increased vote integrity and voter confidence. Instead we end up with something that's less secure than the paper ballot, finger-in-ink approach used in Iraq.