Author Topic: John McCain - Hero Or Rat ? And Everything Else  (Read 8829 times)

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Offline HikerGuy83

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John McCain - Hero Or Rat ? And Everything Else
« on: November 09, 2020, 01:23:40 am »
Some other threads have digressed to the subject of John McCain.

As I followed him (as best I could) he seemed very inconsistent in his positions.  He could be very animated about some things that were minor and totally deadpan on things that were pretty important.

I have read several articles on him that paint a different picture. 

I would like to gather information here (so we can keep it away from other threads) and so a picture can be painted that is based on true history (including things he might have said).

Let's keep in fact related if we can...please.

Offline HikerGuy83

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Re: John McCain - Hero Or Rat ? And Everything Else
« Reply #1 on: November 09, 2020, 03:04:26 am »
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/femail/article-1024927/The-wife-John-McCain-callously-left-behind.html

This article is about his first marriage.

His first wife, Carol, is the main subject. 

But there is a lot of commentary on McCain.

From this article, I get that:

1. Carol, his first wife, had been married before.
2. She had two children.
3. She divorced her first husband for infidelity (and got what ????)
4. She met McCain when he was 27 or 28.
5. They were married in March, 1965.
6. He gets shot down.
7. She is in a near lethal car wreck that required several major surgeries and left her somewhat disfigured.  Christmas 1969
8. She does not tell McCain.
9. Ross Perot pays for her medical care.
10. He returns in 1973.  Privately he is appalled at his wife's appearance (she has gained weight and lost 5 inches due to bone removal from the accident)
11. He has admitted that he caroused around while still married.
12. 1979 - He meets Cindy at a cocktail party.....
13. He pursues her for six months flying around the country to meet up with her (obviously an affair).
14. He decides to end his marriage - Carol and the kids are devastated.
15. April 1980 - The divorce if finalized - Carol did not contest
16. McCain agrees to a generous divorce settlement.
17. McCain and City are married in 1980......

From there he was introduced into politics and never looked back.

The Reagans cared for Carol.  She was part of the 1980 campaign and planned several key events.

Commentary from Ross Perot (2008):

But Ross Perot, who paid her medical bills all those years ago, now believes that both Carol McCain and the American people have been taken in by a man who is unusually slick and cruel – even by the standards of modern politics.

‘McCain is the classic opportunist. He’s always reaching for attention and glory,’ he said.

‘After he came home, Carol walked with a limp. So he threw her over for a poster girl with big money from Arizona. And the rest is history.’

Offline Bigun

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Offline HikerGuy83

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Re: John McCain - Hero Or Rat ? And Everything Else
« Reply #3 on: November 09, 2020, 03:22:42 am »
I had read it before (on that thread).

I want to keep things as compartmentalized as I can to treat this in detail.

I was going to look up comments on his temper from several articles.

He was known for getting really upset.

Offline HikerGuy83

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Re: John McCain - Hero Or Rat ? And Everything Else
« Reply #4 on: November 29, 2020, 10:30:52 pm »
I did some searching on McCain's temper. 

The following were examples of what some have written:

But it is not just McCain's politics that are disturbing. It is his personality, too. For McCain has a secret reputation as a man with a ferocious, unpredictable temper. He is a man who has a knack for pursuing vendettas against those he thinks have slighted him, even if they are lowly aides.
The list of worrying incidents is long. In 1995 he ended up almost physically scuffling with aged Senator Strom Thurmond on the Senate floor. And, according to some accounts, in 2006 he had a fight with Arizona congressman Rick Renzi, throwing blows in a scrap whose details have only recently been detailed in Schecter's book. Schecter unearthed another unpleasant incident from 1992 in which McCain, tired after a long day's campaign, reacted badly to his wife Cindy teasing him about his baldness. 'At least I don't plaster on the make-up like a trollop, you bleep,' McCain snapped in front of eyewitnesses. Schecter says he has three sources for the story. McCain's campaign have denied it.
Such public outbursts, and many other private ones, have concerned people even in his own party. Former New Hampshire Republican Senator Robert Smith publicly voiced his concerns, once saying McCain's temper ' ... would place this country at risk in international affairs, and the world perhaps in danger'. That sentiment was echoed by Mississippi Republican Senator Thad Cochran, who told a Boston newspaper: 'The thought of his being president sends a cold chill down my spine. He is erratic. He is hotheaded. He loses his temper and he worries me.'
https://www.theguardian.com/world/2008/jun/22/johnmccain.uselections2008
In winter 2007, John McCain’s presidential bid was bleeding for money. The campaign had fired senior staff. And the candidate had only 54% of support from Republicans in his home state of Arizona ahead of the primaries. But it was a speech Vladimir Putin gave at the Munich Security Conference—where the Russian president lambasted the United States for cultivating a world of “instability and danger”—that set the senator’s teeth on edge.

“I remember John McCain becoming furiously angry with this speech and wanting to do an immediate press conference to respond to it,” McCain’s former foreign policy advisor Niall Ferguson, a British historian, told Observer. “That’s when I saw the impulse McCain, ‘Fighting John,’ who had to be talked out of this vehement rejoinder of Putin.”

“Fighting John” was a side of McCain that commanded the respect of his fellow soldiers, and later defined his career as a politician. Former CIA Director R. James Woolsey, who also advised the senator’s 2008 bid for the presidency, recalled his interviews with half a dozen Naval officers who had been detained with McCain at Hao Lo Prison—the infamous Vietnamese torture site nicknamed ‘Hanoi Hilton’ by American soldiers.

“They all said, pretty much this: ‘John and I have always gotten along most of the time, but we have on occasion gotten in fights…Last time we played poker, we nearly brained each other, but I love him like a brother and would follow him anywhere,'” Woolsey told Observer. “And that’s John McCain.”

https://observer.com/2018/08/how-john-mccains-temper-drove-him-from-hanoi-hilton-to-the-senate/
About a year later, McCain reportedly erupted again, this time at a meeting with Arizona's then-Gov. Evan Mecham, who was about to be impeached after being indicted on felony charges.

Karen Johnson, then Mecham's secretary and now an Arizona state senator, recalled how McCain told Mecham that he was "causing the party a lot of problems" and was an embarrassment to the party.

"Sen. McCain got very angry," Johnson recalled, "and I said, 'Why are you talking to the governor like this? You're causing problems yourself. You're an embarrassment.' "

Johnson would go on to work at three different jobs over the next five years, and she said that each time, McCain would contact her boss and try to get her removed.

The McCain campaign didn't respond to repeated requests for comment.

https://www.mcclatchydc.com/news/politics-government/article24498646.html

And article on his temper…..

https://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-srv/aponline/19991031/aponline183823_000.htm
John McCain’s Democratic colleagues in the Senate are zeroing in on his oft-discussed temper, questioning whether the presumptive Republican presidential nominee is too volatile to be commander in chief.
In separate interviews with Politico on Tuesday, Senate Majority Whip Richard J. Durbin (D-Ill.) and Sen. Barbara Boxer (D-Calif.) said they have seen McCain “explode.”
“He has a huge anger problem,” Boxer said. “And he never hid that. ... I have seen it happen on the Senate floor many, many times. … He has exploded at me a couple times.”
Boxer said McCain has always apologized after the dust-ups. Nonetheless, she insinuated that McCain’s temperament makes him unfit for the White House.
“It’s all well and good to apologize,” Boxer added, “but if you are in charge of that black box, I worry about that.”
Durbin noted McCain’s temper is “well documented,” saying that he had been on the receiving end of it for what he considered “minor things.”

“I was in a confrontation with him … and he was quick to explode,” said Durbin. “It simmered for a long time.”
https://www.politico.com/story/2008/08/democrats-take-aim-at-mccains-temper-012846


In January, Thad Cochran, a Republican senator for Mississippi, said the thought of Mr McCain as president sent a “cold chill down my spine”, describing him as “hotheaded” and “erratic”. James Dobson, the influential evangelical leader, said he could not support Mr McCain, in part because he “has a legendary temper and often uses foul and obscene language”.
On Capitol Hill, his outbursts are part of congressional folklore. One of the most recent came last year when, according to witnesses, he shouted, "bleep you!” at John Cornyn, a Republican senator for Texas, during a heated exchange over immigration reform.
A similar tirade in 1999 cost him the support of Pete Domenici, a New Mexico senator, in the 2000 presidential election. “I decided I didn’t want this guy anywhere near a trigger,” said Mr Domenici.
https://www.ft.com/content/f28123a8-0725-11dd-b41e-0000779fd2ac
The senator’s temper and temperament remain in question. His biographer quotes him: “At the smallest provocation I would go off into a mad frenzy, and then suddenly crash to the floor unconscious.” Has he moderated over time? Apparently. Somewhat. Senators who have had John McCain scream hyphenated obscenities at them nose-to-nose include Rick Santorum, Richard Shelby, Thad Cochran, and James Inhofe. Most colleagues decline comment. The man has been called psychologically unstable.

Offline Cyber Liberty

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Re: John McCain - Hero Or Rat ? And Everything Else
« Reply #5 on: November 29, 2020, 10:38:47 pm »
You are off to a good start, @HikerGuy83!  whole books can be written on the subject of his infamous temper.  For a "war hero" he sure was infantile.  My chief complaint has always been he fights conservatives with 10 more vigor than leftists.
For unvaccinated, we are looking at a winter of severe illness and death — if you’re unvaccinated — for themselves, their families, and the hospitals they’ll soon overwhelm. Sloe Joe Biteme 12/16
I will NOT comply.
 
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Offline Absalom

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Re: John McCain - Hero Or Rat ? And Everything Else
« Reply #6 on: November 30, 2020, 06:35:27 am »
----------------------------------------------
Hmm..........McCain, Hero or Rat???
A suggestion about your planned research!
Skip the sexual gossip, hearsay, innuendo and rumor, as it's predictable
horse manure produced to garner attention from those who are gullible.
A core fact about John McCain is that he was a Naval Captain/Aviator
shot down over Hanoi and held as a Prisoners-of-War for 5 & 1/2 years.
Further he was awarded numerous Medals including the DFC, Silver & Bronze Stars.
Incidentally, McCain was a Viet Cong war prisoner, while Trump, one of his fiercest
critics, was a Vietnam draft dodger!!!





« Last Edit: November 30, 2020, 05:47:22 pm by Absalom »

Offline FeelNoPain

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Re: John McCain - Hero Or Rat ? And Everything Else
« Reply #7 on: November 30, 2020, 11:57:26 am »
Sexual misdeeds...Infantile behavior....Rash Temperment...Publicly lashes out at his fellow Republicans...Vindictive...Impulsive...Obscene Language...Attention-starved...

Whew!!! Thank Goodness the GOP avoided having all that in the Oval Office. :yowsa:
"I’d like to begin by addressing the heinous attack on the United States Capitol. Like all Americans I am outraged by the violence, lawlessness and mayhem...

To demonstrators who infiltrated the Capitol: you have defiled the seat of American democracy. To those who engage in the acts of violence and destruction: you do not represent our country. And to those who broke the law: you will pay." - President Donald J. Trump, January 7th, 2021

Offline FeelNoPain

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Re: John McCain - Hero Or Rat ? And Everything Else
« Reply #8 on: November 30, 2020, 12:12:04 pm »
[quote authority r=Absalom link=topic=419383.msg2335955#msg2335955 date=1606718127]

[/quote]

My father is a retired Command Sergeant Major. 31 years of service, Purple heart, multiple tours. Cried when had to retire from his beloved army. He STILL can’t believe a person who didn’t serve opened his mouth derisively about a POW (regardless of who it is) and wasn’t immediately disqualified for doing so.

Can you imagine if Obama had said similar about McCain in 2008? Ooh boy. lol

"I’d like to begin by addressing the heinous attack on the United States Capitol. Like all Americans I am outraged by the violence, lawlessness and mayhem...

To demonstrators who infiltrated the Capitol: you have defiled the seat of American democracy. To those who engage in the acts of violence and destruction: you do not represent our country. And to those who broke the law: you will pay." - President Donald J. Trump, January 7th, 2021

Offline catfish1957

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Re: John McCain - Hero Or Rat ? And Everything Else
« Reply #9 on: November 30, 2020, 02:06:33 pm »
One of my life's lessons taught by my mother, was if you can't say ANYTHING nice about someone, don't say anything at all.
I display the Confederate Battle Flag in honor of my great great great grandfathers who spilled blood at Wilson's Creek and Shiloh.  5 others served in the WBTS with honor too.

Offline Bigun

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Re: John McCain - Hero Or Rat ? And Everything Else
« Reply #10 on: November 30, 2020, 02:07:14 pm »
My father is a retired Command Sergeant Major. 31 years of service, Purple heart, multiple tours. Cried when had to retire from his beloved army. He STILL can’t believe a person who didn’t serve opened his mouth derisively about a POW (regardless of who it is) and wasn’t immediately disqualified for doing so.

Can you imagine if Obama had said similar about McCain in 2008? Ooh boy. lol

Truth remains truth no matter how hard it is for some people to swallow.
"I wish it need not have happened in my time," said Frodo.

"So do I," said Gandalf, "and so do all who live to see such times. But that is not for them to decide. All we have to decide is what to do with the time that is given us."
- J. R. R. Tolkien

Offline Restored

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Re: John McCain - Hero Or Rat ? And Everything Else
« Reply #11 on: November 30, 2020, 02:21:09 pm »
McCain was a pawn of the media and he desperately wanted them to like him so he would parrot their talking points.
Countdown to Resignation

Offline Cyber Liberty

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Re: John McCain - Hero Or Rat ? And Everything Else
« Reply #12 on: November 30, 2020, 02:45:27 pm »
Hmm..........McCain, Hero or Rat???
A suggestion about your planned research!
Skip the sexual gossip, hearsay, innuendo and rumor, as it's predictable
horse manure produced to garner attention from those that are gullible.
A core fact about John McCain is that he was a Naval Captain/Aviator
shot down over Hanoi and held as a Prisoners-of-War for 5 & 1/2 years.
Further he was awarded numerous Medals including the DFC, Silver & Bronze Stars.
Incidentally, McCain was a Viet Cong war prisoner, and Trump, one of his fiercest
critics, was a Vietnam draft dodger!!!

Your record of stating the irrelevant remains unblemished. I never gave two hoots about his Navy record because I wasn't in the Service, so I don't feel it's appropriate for me to comment on it either way. 

No, I am more concerned about his political record, and he's been a treacherous tool since he was first elected to office.  I moved into that Congressional District in 1980, so I've been a close observer of his actions for almost 40 years.  Whenever he was counted upon in the Senate, he weaseled and voted with the Democrats, all the while badmouthing conservatives and destroying the political careers of any who would challenge him.
For unvaccinated, we are looking at a winter of severe illness and death — if you’re unvaccinated — for themselves, their families, and the hospitals they’ll soon overwhelm. Sloe Joe Biteme 12/16
I will NOT comply.
 
Castillo del Cyber Autonomous Zone ~~~~~>                          :dontfeed:

Offline Bigun

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Re: John McCain - Hero Or Rat ? And Everything Else
« Reply #13 on: November 30, 2020, 02:50:50 pm »


John Sidney McCain III would likely have wound up selling used cars but for the fact that his father and grandfather were admirals and THAT is a core fact!
"I wish it need not have happened in my time," said Frodo.

"So do I," said Gandalf, "and so do all who live to see such times. But that is not for them to decide. All we have to decide is what to do with the time that is given us."
- J. R. R. Tolkien

Offline skeeter

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Re: John McCain - Hero Or Rat ? And Everything Else
« Reply #14 on: November 30, 2020, 02:51:51 pm »
My father is a retired Command Sergeant Major. 31 years of service, Purple heart, multiple tours. Cried when had to retire from his beloved army. He STILL can’t believe a person who didn’t serve opened his mouth derisively about a POW (regardless of who it is) and wasn’t immediately disqualified for doing so.

Can you imagine if Obama had said similar about McCain in 2008? Ooh boy. lol
Well McCain sent a courier fetch the Steele Dossier from the UK and drop it off at the FBI in 2016. So we can call it even.

Offline Cyber Liberty

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Re: John McCain - Hero Or Rat ? And Everything Else
« Reply #15 on: November 30, 2020, 03:12:07 pm »
Well McCain sent a courier fetch the Steele Dossier from the UK and drop it off at the FBI in 2016. So we can call it even.

An incredibly stupid gesture because the FBI already had the phony dossier.  Typical of McStain's robust treachery.
For unvaccinated, we are looking at a winter of severe illness and death — if you’re unvaccinated — for themselves, their families, and the hospitals they’ll soon overwhelm. Sloe Joe Biteme 12/16
I will NOT comply.
 
Castillo del Cyber Autonomous Zone ~~~~~>                          :dontfeed:

Offline skeeter

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Re: John McCain - Hero Or Rat ? And Everything Else
« Reply #16 on: November 30, 2020, 03:17:51 pm »
An incredibly stupid gesture because the FBI already had the phony dossier.  Typical of McStain's robust treachery.
He was one vindictive SOB.

Offline Cyber Liberty

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Re: John McCain - Hero Or Rat ? And Everything Else
« Reply #17 on: November 30, 2020, 03:27:51 pm »
He was one vindictive SOB.

Yahbutttt!  He was a "war hero" with an exemplary record, or so we're told.  Pay no attention that a trainee who crashes multiple training jets usually gets washed out of flight school.
For unvaccinated, we are looking at a winter of severe illness and death — if you’re unvaccinated — for themselves, their families, and the hospitals they’ll soon overwhelm. Sloe Joe Biteme 12/16
I will NOT comply.
 
Castillo del Cyber Autonomous Zone ~~~~~>                          :dontfeed:

Offline skeeter

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Re: John McCain - Hero Or Rat ? And Everything Else
« Reply #18 on: November 30, 2020, 03:32:15 pm »
Yahbutttt!  He was a "war hero" with an exemplary record, or so we're told.  Pay no attention that a trainee who crashes multiple training jets usually gets washed out of flight school.
The guy was a natural in DC though. It was just a few years after arriving he got tied up with the Keating Five corruption case.

Offline Right_in_Virginia

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Re: John McCain - Hero Or Rat ? And Everything Else
« Reply #19 on: November 30, 2020, 03:39:03 pm »
John Sidney McCain III would likely have wound up selling used cars but for the fact that his father and grandfather were admirals and THAT is a core fact!

McCain still would have wound up selling used cars @Bigun if he hadn't divorced his wife to marry an heiress and use her daddy's money to fund his first campaign.

Offline Cyber Liberty

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Re: John McCain - Hero Or Rat ? And Everything Else
« Reply #20 on: November 30, 2020, 03:40:20 pm »
The guy was a natural in DC though. It was just a few years after arriving he got tied up with the Keating Five corruption case.

The Keating Five was four Democrats and one Republican...John McStain.  One of the Rats was John Glenn, world famous Astronaut Hero.  Another was AZ's other Senator, Mob-connected Rat Dennis DeCONcini.
« Last Edit: November 30, 2020, 03:41:07 pm by Cyber Liberty »
For unvaccinated, we are looking at a winter of severe illness and death — if you’re unvaccinated — for themselves, their families, and the hospitals they’ll soon overwhelm. Sloe Joe Biteme 12/16
I will NOT comply.
 
Castillo del Cyber Autonomous Zone ~~~~~>                          :dontfeed:

Offline DB

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Re: John McCain - Hero Or Rat ? And Everything Else
« Reply #21 on: November 30, 2020, 03:44:37 pm »
He was loved by the media because he would stab Republicans in the back on camera over and over again...

But when he went for the big ring the media burned him when it counted... He was the media's useful idiot and he never figured that out.

He was a bitter vile unprincipled man.

Offline Knox27

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Re: John McCain - Hero Or Rat ? And Everything Else
« Reply #22 on: November 30, 2020, 03:51:01 pm »
That he refused an early release from his captors tells me all I need to know about him as a man.  Politically, he did seem propped up by the media.  I thought ultimately he just wasn't bright enough to live by his righteousness and was never my pick among republicans to be President. 

He is gone now, what's done is done, but I like to think he was supremely patriotic, he wanted to do what was right, he tried to be dignified, and he had a good sense of humor.  So I think of him as a hero in the end.  Despite the god awful choice of that dummy Sarah Palin.   Ayyyyy, how do you F up a VP pick that badly??

He also had one of my favorite quotes: "Russia is a gas station masquerading as a country"

Offline Right_in_Virginia

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Re: John McCain - Hero Or Rat ? And Everything Else
« Reply #23 on: November 30, 2020, 03:56:02 pm »





Offline Right_in_Virginia

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Re: John McCain - Hero Or Rat ? And Everything Else
« Reply #24 on: November 30, 2020, 04:10:07 pm »
McCain was a pawn of the media and he desperately wanted them to like him so he would parrot their talking points.

I worked with a lobbying firm and we did a lot of business with McCain's Senate office (a lot!).  My then boss (a retired military officer) had the hardest time writing a campaign check for McCain's 2008 run for POTUS.  He wrestled for quite a while with the morality of helping a true psychopath become CIC  --- ultimately splitting the baby by writing the check for a fraction of the anticipated amount.

He, and most active and retired military still interacting with McCain were unimpressed with McCain's hero status --- to say the least.



« Last Edit: November 30, 2020, 04:12:37 pm by Right_in_Virginia »