First time handgun purchase, advice?

[sneakypete]

I do too... The one weird gun (out of sequence, unreplicated) I keep around is my old S&W .357 mag, which lives in my truck... It's a good spare to have around, and I keep a couple boxes of ammo with it.

I can't seem to let it go. All it ever does these days is wait around for a car-struck deer to put out of its misery, or the very off chance that I don't have my go-bag and need to walk off into the woods for some reason (a rare to nonexistent occasion)... Or if I am jumpy in town for some reason, it's a surety stuffed behind my belt.

Well I DO got those matched nickel 9's too... in shoulder holsters. Won them in a game, and they are just too pretty to get rid of. Kinda silly really.

@roamer_1

Yeah,but they didn't cost you anything,it costs you nothing to keep them,and maybe one day some idiot will offer to trade you something useful for them?

[sneakypete]

I bought my first and only handgun 14 years ago.  At the time I decided I wanted a shotgun as well, so I bought one of those at the same time.  Now, 14 years later, I have never (thankfully) had to use either weapon for self-defense, but I have spent many pleasant hours at the shooting range learning the intricacies of both weapons.

My shotgun is a Mossburg that has several barrels and butts.  it can be anything from a sawed off defender like the one pictured earlier to a hunting rifle with scope, to a bird or skeet shooter.  It cost less than $500 and has given me a lot of pleasure at the range. 

If I had it to do over again I would buy a reliable 9mm revolver instead of a semi-automatic. As fun as it is to shoot the semi, there is a lot to be said for having a simple weapon that you can simply pick up and shoot, with zero possibility of jamming, and leaves no cartridge behind.

@massadvj

9mm REVOLVER? WHY in the name of Gawd would you do something like that and limit yourself to 115 grain bullets? Epecially when there are 357 Magnum revolvers you can buy cheaper that also shoot 38 Specials?

IMHO,the BIG plus for novice shooters looking for a self-defense weapon is revolvers have no safety to forget to take off in the heat of the moment.

For people who have handled and fired guns all their lives or who have been in gunfights,this is no big deal. For someone new to shooting who has never shot anyone or been shot at by anyone,this is a VERY big deal.

"Revolvers,the original point and click devices!" You point them where you want to shoot,and keep pulling the trigger until all you hear are clicks instead of booms.You then reload,and repeat if necessary.

[skeeter]

@massadvj

9mm REVOLVER? WHY in the name of Gawd would you do something like that and limit yourself to 115 grain bullets? Epecially when there are 357 Magnum revolvers you can buy cheaper that also shoot 38 Specials?

IMHO,the BIG plus for novice shooters looking for a self-defense weapon is revolvers have no safety to forget to take off in the heat of the moment.

"Revolvers,the original point and click devices!" You point them where you want to shoot,and keep pulling the trigger until all you hear are clicks instead of booms.You then reload,and repeat if necessary.

If I gotta rely on 9mm I want at least 15 rounds at my immediate disposal.

[sneakypete]

YEP. It's nice like that. And .357 mag is enough for taking out a hoomin. Heck, a .38 will make em want to go home... But then, griz. Ol Warden Louie Kiss had a bear turn on him when he was letting it out (relocation bear), and that bear took all 6 at extremely close range and still messed him up bad.

That was when I decided to upgrade to .45 Colt, and stayed there most my life.

@roamer_1

Few people are bigger fans of old slab sides than me,and I even have one I custom built to shoot MY handloads that won't even cycle GI Ball far enough to create a jam. It is also insanely accurae.

When it comes to fending off the hordes of thugs,I will take my 45 ACP every time without fail.

HOWEVER,if I were facing off against a bear,I would pick a 357 with a 6 inch barrel and my handloads every time.

45ACP's are wonderful devices for dealing with human attackers,but they ain't for bears.

BTW,I agree with you on the 45 Long Colt,but you and I both know what that is,and the massive differences between that and a 45 ACP.

A new shooter won't know that,and you and I both know a new shooter ain't up to shooting a bear with something like  Ruger SA loaded with stiff 45 LC handloads.

Nor is the Ruger SA Six or the Colt 45 SA LC practical for concealed carry,and most people who live in cities can only carry concealed.

[Elderberry]

Used, In stock

Taurus 651 .357 Magnum caliber revolver. All steel snub nose revolver with laser grips. Excellent condition.   (PR50281) $549.95

https://www.collectorsfirearms.com/post-war-modern-pistols-revolvers/?sort=priceasc

[Cyber Liberty]

@sneakypete

So what exactly is the diff between .45 ACP and LC?  I know the cartridges are different (I have weapons for both kinds), but is the charge different?  The grains of the bullet?

[Elderberry]

@sneakypete

So what exactly is the diff between .45 ACP and LC?  I know the cartridges are different (I have weapons for both kinds), but is the charge different?  The grains of the bullet?

With the 45Colt, or 45Long Colt if you so prefer, think of a 44 Magnum shooting a .454 in dia bullet instead of a .429 in dia bullet. In a strong modern revolver the 45 Colt can handle the same amount of pressure as the same gun in 44 Magnum. As the 45Colt was originally a black powder cartridge and there are many guns that can only handle that amount of power, until recently all the 45Colt ammo was at a puny power level. Now ammo makers are selling selected ammo with much more power. And for us reloaders, it has never been an issue.

For comparisons between the 45ACP and the 45Colt. If you are limiting the 45Colt to black powder pressure levels I believe it is still more powerful than the 45ACP.

[Cyber Liberty]

@Elderberry Muy Bueno!  Gracias!

[massadvj]

@massadvj

9mm REVOLVER? WHY in the name of Gawd would you do something like that and limit yourself to 115 grain bullets? Epecially when there are 357 Magnum revolvers you can buy cheaper that also shoot 38 Specials?

IMHO,the BIG plus for novice shooters looking for a self-defense weapon is revolvers have no safety to forget to take off in the heat of the moment.

For people who have handled and fired guns all their lives or who have been in gunfights,this is no big deal. For someone new to shooting who has never shot anyone or been shot at by anyone,this is a VERY big deal.

"Revolvers,the original point and click devices!" You point them where you want to shoot,and keep pulling the trigger until all you hear are clicks instead of booms.You then reload,and repeat if necessary.

I don't disagree with anything you said here.  I bought a 9mm semi because I did not want a gun with too much of a kick, but I wanted something heftier than a 22.  Having shot a few 357 revolvers on the range, I think they are great.  I might even get one for myself one of these days. 

[massadvj]

If I gotta rely on 9mm I want at least 15 rounds at my immediate disposal.

Two words: hollow point.

[sneakypete]

Used, In stock

Taurus 651 .357 Magnum caliber revolver. All steel snub nose revolver with laser grips. Excellent condition.   (PR50281) $549.95

https://www.collectorsfirearms.com/post-war-modern-pistols-revolvers/?sort=priceasc

@Elderberry

Wouldn't have it as a gift. Anybody that buys a snub nose .357 Magnum is a fool. More useful as a club than a handgun.

[sneakypete]

@sneakypete

So what exactly is the diff between .45 ACP and LC?  I know the cartridges are different (I have weapons for both kinds), but is the charge different?  The grains of the bullet?

@Cyber Liberty

Velocity,bullet weight,powder charges,and recoil. A full-powered modern 45LC round is a 44 Magnum with a different name.

Do a web search for photos of a 45 Long Colt round and a 45 ACP round and you will immediately see the difference.

[sneakypete]

   I bought a 9mm semi because I did not want a gun with too much of a kick, but I wanted something heftier than a 22.  Having shot a few 357 revolvers on the range, I think they are great.  I might even get one for myself one of these days.

@massadvj

I am in complete agreement with everything you wrote there. Hell,I even have a 9mm semi-auto so small it fits in my pants pocket without making a bulge.

The thing is in your earlier post,you wrote "9mm REVOLVER".

[sneakypete]

Two words: hollow point.

One word,"head shot".

[Cyber Liberty]

@Cyber Liberty

Velocity,bullet weight,powder charges,and recoil. A full-powered modern 45LC round is a 44 Magnum with a different name.

Do a web search for photos of a 45 Long Colt round and a 45 ACP round and you will immediately see the difference.

I'll have a look.  I don't need to Goggle, I have both in my stock.

[Elderberry]

@Elderberry

Wouldn't have it as a gift. Anybody that buys a snub nose .357 Magnum is a fool. More useful as a club than a handgun.

I just posted it cause it was the cheapest available used 357 I found from a site that I've purchased several handguns from and I wanted to see what prices are these days.

A 38 Special gives up quite a bit of velocity when shot out of a snub nose, so you gain some velocity back stepping up to 357 Mag along with a hellacious muzzle blast.

[Elderberry]

Just as the 45Colt has been modernized by increasing the pressure produced up from the Black Powder days up into the modern Smokeless days, the 45ACP has also been modernized with the 45Super round that has the same dimensions as the original 45ACP that was designed using the smokeless powders available back in 1904.

What Is the .45 Super Cartridge?

Sky Above Us by Tom Blalock 3/27/2020

https://skyaboveus.com/hunting-shooting/What-is-the-45-Super

A Dash of History...

To explain the .45 Super cartridge, it might be best to give a little history lesson on its direct descendant, the venerable .45 ACP (Automatic Colt Pistol). The .45 ACP was designed in 1904 by John Browning, specifically for his new M1911 automatic pistol, which would go on to become the standard service weapon of the United States military from 1911 to 1985. That particular weapon is also the basis for modern 1911 style weapons.

The .45 Super is a modern redesign of the .45 ACP cartridge. It utilizes stronger powders, and strengthened brass, without losing any of its original dimensions, leaving it the same size as the original .45 Super cartridge.

Why Redesign What Works?

As it is with technology, what was new in 1904 is nearly ancient in the modern world. The .45 ACP is no exception to that rule. Since its creation, newer, more powerful forms of smokeless powder have been created, as well as more modern cartridges. While still considered one of the most reliable cartridges for home defense due to its size, the .45 ACP struggles to match other rounds in terms of power and speed in comparison with case capacity.

The reason is actually quite simple. In 1904, when the cartridge was first designed, the more powerful smokeless powders in use today had not yet been invented. The case walls and brass webbing were designed to handle the powder of the time, nothing more. That translates into the modern day pressure specifications of 21,000 PSI for .45 ACP, and 34,084 and 37,500, for 9mm and 10mm respectively. As you can see, the 9mm and 10mm can handle pressures just shy of double that of the .45 ACP.

What this translates to is that the .45 ACP cartridge uses less of its modern day potential for its size than more modern rounds.

More at link.

[massadvj]

@massadvj

I am in complete agreement with everything you wrote there. Hell,I even have a 9mm semi-auto so small it fits in my pants pocket without making a bulge.

The thing is in your earlier post,you wrote "9mm REVOLVER".

I know what I wrote.  On reflection I agree a 357 would be better.

[Bigun]

Just as the 45Colt has been modernized by increasing the pressure produced up from the Black Powder days up into the modern Smokeless days, the 45ACP has also been modernized with the 45Super round that has the same dimensions as the original 45ACP that was designed using the smokeless powders available back in 1904.

Not a fan of this, or any other modernized cartridge, that will chamber in guns not designed to handle it.  FAR too much room for accidents IMHO.

[sneakypete]

Not a fan of this, or any other modernized cartridge, that will chamber in guns not designed to handle it.  FAR too much room for accidents IMHO.

@Bigun

It's not a problem if you know what you are doing.
 
My "go to town" 1911 is a all-steel 1970's combat commander that I modified so it would handle my "stout" reloads. All will say about them is they use Unique and 200 grain hard cast semi-wadcutters.

All I will say about the pistol is that it happily eats rounds that make a loud "CLANG" noise when fired in stock 1911A1,and it won't even cycle far enough to jam an empty case from a GI Ball load.

Other than it functions flawlessly without a single jam or failure to fire after having shot at least a thousand rounds through it,and it shoots where I look.
 
My other "go to town" gun is a stainless Rossi 5 shot single action only 44 Special no rear site other than the groove running down the top strap,and a thumbless haammer. Given that it is single-action only,a hammer with a thumb cocker on it is useless anyhow.

The action was so slick right out of the box I have never even removed the side plate.

I shoot 200 gr Winchester Silvertips in it. This is gun I carry when I go to "peaceful" towns and don't anticipate needing to reload it in a hurry.

[roamer_1]

BTW,I agree with you on the 45 Long Colt,but you and I both know what that is,and the massive differences between that and a 45 ACP.

Yeah, That's right... But the main thing for me @sneakypete , is that the colt don't stovepipe, and in the chain of events wrt a single action, the only thing that don't go bang is a dud cartridge. Add to that, decades of barrel weight built into my aim...

I am alright with the 1911. Target practice, I am doing fine.even pretty good with the clip drop (which is the only thing I consider an advantage)... But it's all by rote. After months, I don't feel it. I still won't +1 because I don't trust myself with it. All that goes to reaction time, which is really the only time I will ever need it.

If I am puling that pistol, it's because my rifle is already empty and I do not have a means of retreat or reload... Or it is too up close to make the rifle of use...  That means everything up close and personal, with no room for error... Very likely against a griz or a moose. I am alright with a 1911, but a Colt cowboy in a crossdraw rocker holster has become so natural to me that it's just an extension of me. I feel it. That natural feel, all that muscle memory is worth way more than anything else in that scenario, so I am better to stick to what I know intimately. Old dogs and all.

In the end I suppose the 1911 is a superior weapon. Especially if moving and able to reload. How I would love the advantage in that case...  It just ain't superior to me. My ability to adapt is far outweighed by my familiarity with a Colt. Do you see what I mean?

[roamer_1]

@roamer_1

Yeah,but they didn't cost you anything,it costs you nothing to keep them,and maybe one day some idiot will offer to trade you something useful for them?

@sneakypete

It's dumb, ain't it? I keep em around under the premise that they make a fine gentleman's rig... All that pretty nickel and hand tooled leather spring holsters... It's all pretty silly, as I'd have to be a gentleman first, with at least one more suit than I have owned these past twenty or thirty years. 

I am not often attracted to shiny sh*t, but those 9's just give me the fizz... Yeah, sooner or later someone will like em more than me, and likely that's their destination. But for now... 

[corbe]

   Have a Happy Gunday, yall.

[Cyber Liberty]

   Have a Happy Gunday, yall.

That poor young lady is in for a surprise when that starts ejecting hot cartridges....

[sneakypete]

That poor young lady is in for a surprise when that starts ejecting hot cartridges....

@Cyber Liberty

And with any luck at all,there will be at least 3 people there with video cameras recording her jumping up and down.