Russia’s race for virus vaccine raises concerns in the West

[PeteS in CA]

Russia’s race for virus vaccine raises concerns in the West

https://apnews.com/ea0e1221dba375d0f07ab9bc0f8bfe05

MOSCOW (AP) — Russia boasts that it’s about to become the first country to approve a COVID-19 vaccine, with mass vaccinations planned as early as October using shots that are yet to complete clinical trials -- and scientists worldwide are sounding the alarm that the headlong rush could backfire.

Moscow sees a Sputnik-like propaganda victory, recalling the Soviet Union’s launch of the world’s first satellite in 1957. But the experimental COVID-19 shots began first-in-human testing on a few dozen people less than two months ago, and there’s no published scientific evidence yet backing Russia’s late entry to the global vaccine race, much less explaining why it should be considered a front-runner.

So this Russian vaccine candidate began what amounts to Phase I testing around mid June. By way of contrast, Moderna began Phase I testing on March 16th and Phase III testing on July 27th. Oxford/AstraZeneca began Phase I testing on April 23rd and Phase II/III testing on May 22nd. Pfizer/BioNTech's vaccine looks to be at about the same stage as Moderna's. Of those three, I think the only one that might be approved in October is AstraZeneca's, with the other two probably in December or January. I'd be willing to be vaccinated with any of those three after being approved. Russia's? With four months' or less testing? No.

BTW, China moved (in July?) from Phase II to beginning the process of vaccinating the whole People's Liberation Army. Even that was, IMO, a bit less risky than what Russia claims they'll be doing.

[libertybele]

I think most are skeptical of any vaccine for COVID from any government including ours.  They are still determining who will be allowed the first "round" of vaccines.  Talk of first responders, the elderly and the black population.  IF that first round of vaccines goes awry, then we could potentially wipe out a large part of the population. It's a possibility.

Currently, DeSantis in FL has given the Secretary of Health the authority to mandate vaccinations.  That definitely raises a huge concern!

[sneakypete]

Russia’s race for virus vaccine raises concerns in the West

https://apnews.com/ea0e1221dba375d0f07ab9bc0f8bfe05

So this Russian vaccine candidate began what amounts to Phase I testing around mid June. By way of contrast, Moderna began Phase I testing on March 16th and Phase III testing on July 27th. Oxford/AstraZeneca began Phase I testing on April 23rd and Phase II/III testing on May 22nd. Pfizer/BioNTech's vaccine looks to be at about the same stage as Moderna's. Of those three, I think the only one that might be approved in October is AstraZeneca's, with the other two probably in December or January. I'd be willing to be vaccinated with any of those three after being approved. Russia's? With four months' or less testing? No.

BTW, China moved (in July?) from Phase II to beginning the process of vaccinating the whole People's Liberation Army. Even that was, IMO, a bit less risky than what Russia claims they'll be doing.

Russia is going to be like this until all the children of the "Old Guard" die off and are replaced by people who didn't grow up under the old Soviet system.

[The_Reader_David]

The think is Russia may have taken the quick route of human challenge trials and already know that the vaccine they have is effective.

Take a few hundred subjects, randomly divide them into treatment (who get the vaccine) and control (who get saline injections), wait a few weeks, expose the lot of them to the disease and see how many fewer and how much milder the cases among the treatment group are compared to the controls.  No waiting for a sample of 30,000 similarly divided to be naturally exposed to the virus over the course of months, which is what Phase III trials in the West consist of.  It's contrary to Western medical ethics developed since the exposure of the Tuskegee experiments, but it quickly verifies the efficacy.  It's also arguable that if the subjects are volunteers (might or might not have been the case if the Russians went that way, probably wasn't when the Chinese almost certainly did -- they'd have used Uighur prisoners or Falun Gong practitioners) that under the conditions of a pandemic of a lethal illness, it is, in fact, ethical to take accept the altruistic impulse of the volunteers, and offer them the best medical care available for several years after participation as compensation for their participation (which would also minimize the fatalities and other adverse consequences to the volunteers). 

[catfish1957]

The think is Russia may have taken the quick route of human challenge trials and already know that the vaccine they have is effective.

Take a few hundred subjects, randomly divide them into treatment (who get the vaccine) and control (who get saline injections), wait a few weeks, expose the lot of them to the disease and see how many fewer and how much milder the cases among the treatment group are compared to the controls.  No waiting for a sample of 30,000 similarly divided to be naturally exposed to the virus over the course of months, which is what Phase III trials in the West consist of.  It's contrary to Western medical ethics developed since the exposure of the Tuskegee experiments, but it quickly verifies the efficacy.  It's also arguable that if the subjects are volunteers (might or might not have been the case if the Russians went that way, probably wasn't when the Chinese almost certainly did -- they'd have used Uighur prisoners or Falun Gong practitioners) that under the conditions of a pandemic of a lethal illness, it is, in fact, ethical to take accept the altruistic impulse of the volunteers, and offer them the best medical care available for several years after participation as compensation for their participation (which would also minimize the fatalities and other adverse consequences to the volunteers).

Plausible, but there is also a side of me that can see this turning into a a state sanctioned Island of Dr. Moreau experiment.

Knowing Space Race failures, Chernobyl, etc.  I'd like to see the looks on the faces of the first round of (ahem) volunteers.   

[PeteS in CA]

I think most are skeptical of any vaccine for COVID from any government including ours.  They are still determining who will be allowed the first "round" of vaccines.  Talk of first responders, the elderly and the black population.  IF that first round of vaccines goes awry, then we could potentially wipe out a large part of the population. It's a possibility.

Currently, DeSantis in FL has given the Secretary of Health the authority to mandate vaccinations.  That definitely raises a huge concern!

The Oxford/AstraZeneca vaccine is in large scale testing in four countries, the UK, the US, South Africa, and Brazil, since late May. Moderna's and Pfizer/BioNTech's will be tested with 30,000 subjects of varying ages and ethnic backgrounds. That is in addition to the scores or hundreds of people tested in Phases I and II. Trust or distrust as you like, just don't fall for the Untested Trump Vaccine bogey-narrative I expect the Dems and their MSM shills to roll out in September or October.

I do not support mandatory vaccinations.

[sneakypete]

I think most are skeptical of any vaccine for COVID from any government including ours.  They are still determining who will be allowed the first "round" of vaccines.  Talk of first responders, the elderly and the black population.  IF that first round of vaccines goes awry, then we could potentially wipe out a large part of the population. It's a possibility.

@libertybele

No,it is a PROBABILITY,and those are the very people we are going to NEED if it gets any worse. How are we to replace them if they are all "gone" from either illness or death? It ain't like you can buy them at Wal-Mart.