Author Topic: Federal authorities used unmarked minivans to remove Portland protesters from streets: Report  (Read 6398 times)

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Offline Smokin Joe

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So, how well is Trump doing in the polls by sitting back and watching things deteriorate?
I'm not necessarily advocating shooting these fools (but I wouldn't shed any tears), however, inaction by the president just encourages more rioting and lawlessness.
Given all that, there's the political course of action and there's the right course of action. We, I voted for Trump because we thought he'd do the right regardless of the political angle.
 I'll respect Trump more if he takes the decision to maintain law and order when mayors and govs. do not want to maintain law and order.
Oh, Screw the polls.

You want right, then put the blame where it belongs.

Why did this get out of hand?

Inaction by local police under orders from Town Councils, Mayors, and Governors who not only did not have their backs, but encouraged rioting and looting and 'giving protesters their room to express themselves'--those are the people whose job it was to stop this crap from day one.
 
They not only didn't put the brakes on, they sided with the 'protesters', looters, and rioters over ALL the other people and property they were supposed to be looking out for.
These are the people who enabled and encouraged lawlessness in the areas where they were supposed to be responsible for the law being upheld.

Now, do your due diligence and tell me who handles that problem?

Then learn about Sheriff Henry Plummer and Bannack, MT.

I have little doubt this crap was supposed to happen in my state (ND), just one over from Minnesota. It didn't.
There were a few windows broken in Fargo, but that got squelched, fast, despite the handwringing by their Mayor..

Here, the attitude was different (Western part of the State), and locals showed up and had their own peaceful assembly, armed, and obviously in good rapport with the police.
Nothing was broken, stolen, or burned.

Ultimately, it is up to us to shut this crap down.

Have the people of these jurisdictions made a plea to the POTUS to restore order?
Have they cited the nonfeasance of their elected officials?
 
(It isn't our back yard, it is up to them unless it ends up in our yard.)
 
Have they, personally, informed him that they are being held hostage, in fear of reprisal or their lives, unable to otherwise dissent?
 
In case you missed it, POTUS has other issues which do require his attention, which involve us all. But even that is not the reason, as I am sure he could take care of this, too, and some here assert (quite likely correctly) that he could do so, even though having the ability to do something does not mean that is the wisest course of action.

(Keep in mind, once the use of Presidential power against domestic groups on the precinct scale occurs, against the express wishes of existing duly elected governance, then this tool will have precedent for use by all future occupiers of the Oval Office, regardless of the desires of locals or their representatives in government.
That's a really dangerous place to go, and the last time someone arbitrarily invoked the use of force to bring jurisdictions into compliance with what the occupant of the White House thought they should be, without the request of the locals, 600,000 (bare minimum) died.

How many of you have met with your local LEOs, or representatives thereof, to assure them you are available to support them as needed in the event of such lawless activities? Have you established the means by which they will be able to identify you and separate you from protesters, discussed rules of engagement, communications, or any of the logistics involved? Have you worked out a plan in which you assist (not replace) the police in containing and stopping violence on your streets?
 
If not, why not?

It's your town, organize and take it back.
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Seventeen Techniques for Truth Suppression

Of all tyrannies, a tyranny sincerely exercised for the good of its victims may be the most oppressive. It would be better to live under robber barons than under omnipotent moral busybodies. The robber baron's cruelty may sometimes sleep, his cupidity may at some point be satiated; but those who torment us for our own good will torment us without end for they do so with the approval of their own conscience.

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Offline XenaLee

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Wouldn't it be nice is a nice upstanding storm trouper kidnapped Pelosi and threw her in a cell full of these Marxist rioters?

It would be a lot nicer if they kidnapped her and we never had to see her ugly face or hear her lying voice again.   888mouth
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Offline EdinVA

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Oh, Screw the polls.

You want right, then put the blame where it belongs.

Why did this get out of hand?

Inaction by local police under orders from Town Councils, Mayors, and Governors who not only did not have their backs, but encouraged rioting and looting and 'giving protesters their room to express themselves'--those are the people whose job it was to stop this crap from day one.
 
They not only didn't put the brakes on, they sided with the 'protesters', looters, and rioters over ALL the other people and property they were supposed to be looking out for.
These are the people who enabled and encouraged lawlessness in the areas where they were supposed to be responsible for the law being upheld.

Now, do your due diligence and tell me who handles that problem?

Then learn about Sheriff Henry Plummer and Bannack, MT.

I have little doubt this crap was supposed to happen in my state (ND), just one over from Minnesota. It didn't.
There were a few windows broken in Fargo, but that got squelched, fast, despite the handwringing by their Mayor..

Here, the attitude was different (Western part of the State), and locals showed up and had their own peaceful assembly, armed, and obviously in good rapport with the police.
Nothing was broken, stolen, or burned.

Ultimately, it is up to us to shut this crap down.

Have the people of these jurisdictions made a plea to the POTUS to restore order?
Have they cited the nonfeasance of their elected officials?
 
(It isn't our back yard, it is up to them unless it ends up in our yard.)
 
Have they, personally, informed him that they are being held hostage, in fear of reprisal or their lives, unable to otherwise dissent?
 
In case you missed it, POTUS has other issues which do require his attention, which involve us all. But even that is not the reason, as I am sure he could take care of this, too, and some here assert (quite likely correctly) that he could do so, even though having the ability to do something does not mean that is the wisest course of action.

(Keep in mind, once the use of Presidential power against domestic groups on the precinct scale occurs, against the express wishes of existing duly elected governance, then this tool will have precedent for use by all future occupiers of the Oval Office, regardless of the desires of locals or their representatives in government.
That's a really dangerous place to go, and the last time someone arbitrarily invoked the use of force to bring jurisdictions into compliance with what the occupant of the White House thought they should be, without the request of the locals, 600,000 (bare minimum) died.

How many of you have met with your local LEOs, or representatives thereof, to assure them you are available to support them as needed in the event of such lawless activities? Have you established the means by which they will be able to identify you and separate you from protesters, discussed rules of engagement, communications, or any of the logistics involved? Have you worked out a plan in which you assist (not replace) the police in containing and stopping violence on your streets?
 
If not, why not?

It's your town, organize and take it back.
Perfectly stated....  :amen:

Offline aligncare

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Perfectly stated....  :amen:

Ditto.

Republicans have been silent too long, afraid to have the dreaded silencer pointed at them: ‘racist’!

No, not at all. Just an American, anti-anarchist, anti-Marxist, pro-constitution, patriot at your disposal.

Online DB

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Oh, Screw the polls.

You want right, then put the blame where it belongs.

Why did this get out of hand?

Inaction by local police under orders from Town Councils, Mayors, and Governors who not only did not have their backs, but encouraged rioting and looting and 'giving protesters their room to express themselves'--those are the people whose job it was to stop this crap from day one.
 
They not only didn't put the brakes on, they sided with the 'protesters', looters, and rioters over ALL the other people and property they were supposed to be looking out for.
These are the people who enabled and encouraged lawlessness in the areas where they were supposed to be responsible for the law being upheld.

Now, do your due diligence and tell me who handles that problem?

Then learn about Sheriff Henry Plummer and Bannack, MT.

I have little doubt this crap was supposed to happen in my state (ND), just one over from Minnesota. It didn't.
There were a few windows broken in Fargo, but that got squelched, fast, despite the handwringing by their Mayor..

Here, the attitude was different (Western part of the State), and locals showed up and had their own peaceful assembly, armed, and obviously in good rapport with the police.
Nothing was broken, stolen, or burned.

Ultimately, it is up to us to shut this crap down.

Have the people of these jurisdictions made a plea to the POTUS to restore order?
Have they cited the nonfeasance of their elected officials?
 
(It isn't our back yard, it is up to them unless it ends up in our yard.)
 
Have they, personally, informed him that they are being held hostage, in fear of reprisal or their lives, unable to otherwise dissent?
 
In case you missed it, POTUS has other issues which do require his attention, which involve us all. But even that is not the reason, as I am sure he could take care of this, too, and some here assert (quite likely correctly) that he could do so, even though having the ability to do something does not mean that is the wisest course of action.

(Keep in mind, once the use of Presidential power against domestic groups on the precinct scale occurs, against the express wishes of existing duly elected governance, then this tool will have precedent for use by all future occupiers of the Oval Office, regardless of the desires of locals or their representatives in government.
That's a really dangerous place to go, and the last time someone arbitrarily invoked the use of force to bring jurisdictions into compliance with what the occupant of the White House thought they should be, without the request of the locals, 600,000 (bare minimum) died.

How many of you have met with your local LEOs, or representatives thereof, to assure them you are available to support them as needed in the event of such lawless activities? Have you established the means by which they will be able to identify you and separate you from protesters, discussed rules of engagement, communications, or any of the logistics involved? Have you worked out a plan in which you assist (not replace) the police in containing and stopping violence on your streets?
 
If not, why not?

It's your town, organize and take it back.

And the people who do allow this to go on in their cities by electing these fools should suffer the consequences. If they don't like it, perhaps they should vote differently.

Offline XenaLee

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And the people who do allow this to go on in their cities by electing these fools should suffer the consequences. If they don't like it, perhaps they should vote differently.

Even right here in Texas.... we on the right are "held hostage" by the radical left Democrats in the biggest cities (Houston, Dallas, Austin, San Antonio).  Those areas are dominated by Democrat voting minorities and leftists that have, in some cases, flocked here from leftist states.   No matter how consistently we vote against these city officials, they always get re-elected.   So there are innocent folks in those leftist cities and states that are suffering.   
No quarter given to the enemy within...ever.

You can vote your way into socialism, but you have to shoot your way out of it.

Online DB

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Even right here in Texas.... we on the right are "held hostage" by the radical left Democrats in the biggest cities (Houston, Dallas, Austin, San Antonio).  Those areas are dominated by Democrat voting minorities and leftists that have, in some cases, flocked here from leftist states.   No matter how consistently we vote against these city officials, they always get re-elected.   So there are innocent folks in those leftist cities and states that are suffering.

Yes. And until the people of your state decide to do something about it it will continue. Move out of the leftest cities. Do not fund the leftest cities.

Offline XenaLee

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Yes. And until the people of your state decide to do something about it it will continue. Move out of the leftest cities. Do not fund the leftest cities.

I can't afford to "move out".  And I suspect that I am not alone re: that.
No quarter given to the enemy within...ever.

You can vote your way into socialism, but you have to shoot your way out of it.

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I can't afford to "move out".  And I suspect that I am not alone re: that.

Elections have consequences. Sometimes real bad ones.

I moved out of California after about 48 years of being there 2 years ago. It isn't easy. But the state has gone insane. I refuse to pay for their idiocy.

Offline Fishrrman

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goat wrote:
"So, how well is Trump doing in the polls by sitting back and watching things deteriorate?
I'm not necessarily advocating shooting these fools (but I wouldn't shed any tears), however, inaction by the president just encourages more rioting and lawlessness."


Fishrrman:
Them:
"Silence is violence !!"

Corrected version:
"Our silence only begets more of their violence..."

Please see this post I put up yesterday in another thread:
http://www.gopbriefingroom.com/index.php/topic,408453.msg2251204.html#msg2251204

Offline Fishrrman

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Offline catfish1957

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See Portland's mayor is demanding Trump remove federal presence, even though thugs have siezed federal building.

Wish Trump would have this turd arrested too for stupidity.
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Offline goatprairie

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Oh, Screw the polls.

You want right, then put the blame where it belongs.

Why did this get out of hand?

Inaction by local police under orders from Town Councils, Mayors, and Governors who not only did not have their backs, but encouraged rioting and looting and 'giving protesters their room to express themselves'--those are the people whose job it was to stop this crap from day one.
 
They not only didn't put the brakes on, they sided with the 'protesters', looters, and rioters over ALL the other people and property they were supposed to be looking out for.
These are the people who enabled and encouraged lawlessness in the areas where they were supposed to be responsible for the law being upheld.

Now, do your due diligence and tell me who handles that problem?

Then learn about Sheriff Henry Plummer and Bannack, MT.

I have little doubt this crap was supposed to happen in my state (ND), just one over from Minnesota. It didn't.
There were a few windows broken in Fargo, but that got squelched, fast, despite the handwringing by their Mayor..

Here, the attitude was different (Western part of the State), and locals showed up and had their own peaceful assembly, armed, and obviously in good rapport with the police.
Nothing was broken, stolen, or burned.

Ultimately, it is up to us to shut this crap down.

Have the people of these jurisdictions made a plea to the POTUS to restore order?
Have they cited the nonfeasance of their elected officials?
 
(It isn't our back yard, it is up to them unless it ends up in our yard.)
 
Have they, personally, informed him that they are being held hostage, in fear of reprisal or their lives, unable to otherwise dissent?
 
In case you missed it, POTUS has other issues which do require his attention, which involve us all. But even that is not the reason, as I am sure he could take care of this, too, and some here assert (quite likely correctly) that he could do so, even though having the ability to do something does not mean that is the wisest course of action.

(Keep in mind, once the use of Presidential power against domestic groups on the precinct scale occurs, against the express wishes of existing duly elected governance, then this tool will have precedent for use by all future occupiers of the Oval Office, regardless of the desires of locals or their representatives in government.
That's a really dangerous place to go, and the last time someone arbitrarily invoked the use of force to bring jurisdictions into compliance with what the occupant of the White House thought they should be, without the request of the locals, 600,000 (bare minimum) died.

How many of you have met with your local LEOs, or representatives thereof, to assure them you are available to support them as needed in the event of such lawless activities? Have you established the means by which they will be able to identify you and separate you from protesters, discussed rules of engagement, communications, or any of the logistics involved? Have you worked out a plan in which you assist (not replace) the police in containing and stopping violence on your streets?
 
If not, why not?

It's your town, organize and take it back.
Sorry, your argument won't wash.
 For one thing, nobody has done things where I live like they're doing in Portland and Seattle. Things are pretty quite around here. No violence.
If people march down my street (highly unlikely where I live) and threaten me and the wife, I do have guns, and I will shoot people who attack us. And my street has a number of people who will shoot people who attack their families.
Trump has made promises that he will fix things in the violent cities.
If people's civil rights are being violated (and they are), it is a federal matter. That means Trump can step in with force if need be.
If federal forces are being assaulted by thugs (and they are), more force might be necessary. As much force as needed to fix the problem.
People don't have to notify the federal gov. and beg for help when their civil rights are being violated by the elected officials of their state. It is up to the fed. gov. to protect their rights.
That means Trump and the AG.
« Last Edit: July 18, 2020, 07:35:48 pm by goatprairie »

Offline mystery-ak

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US attorney calls for investigation into unmarked federal agents arresting protestors in Oregon

The U.S. Attorney for the Oregon District has requested an investigation into the unmarked, camouflaged federal officers who have been picking up and detaining protestors in Portland.

"Based on news accounts circulating that allege federal law enforcement detained two protestors without probable cause, I have requested the Department of Homeland Security Office of the Inspector General to open a separate investigation directed specifically at the actions of DHS personnel," U.S. Attorney Billy J. Williams said in a statement Friday.

Federal authorities, clad in unmarked military fatigues have reportedly been grabbing and detaining protestors in unmarked vans. Tensions have escalated between law enforcement and demonstrators since the death of George Floyd, an unarmed black man who was killed while in Minneapolis police custody in late May. The protests have dominated the Portland area for well over a month, and at times, have lead to the damage of federal property.

more
https://thehill.com/homenews/state-watch/507967-us-attorney-calls-for-investigation-into-unmarked-federal-agents
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Online Hoodat

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Unmarked mini-vans?  Oh, the horror!
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Offline aligncare

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Unmarked mini-vans?  Oh, the horror!

The perps probably thought they were being picked up for soccer practice. happy77

Offline XenaLee

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Elections have consequences. Sometimes real bad ones.

I moved out of California after about 48 years of being there 2 years ago. It isn't easy. But the state has gone insane. I refuse to pay for their idiocy.

Well again, even here in Texas, some of us are forced to pay for "their idiocy" via city property taxing entities.  Entities that, coincidentally, have given nobody a break during this "pandemic" and couldn't care less if people are having trouble scraping together that $$$.   It is what it is, I guess.
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Offline Chosen Daughter

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Sorry, your argument won't wash.
 For one thing, nobody has done things where I live like they're doing in Portland and Seattle. Things are pretty quite around here. No violence.
If people march down my street (highly unlikely where I live) and threaten me and the wife, I do have guns, and I will shoot people who attack us. And my street has a number of people who will shoot people who attack their families.
Trump has made promises that he will fix things in the violent cities.
If people's civil rights are being violated (and they are), it is a federal matter. That means Trump can step in with force if need be.
If federal forces are being assaulted by thugs (and they are), more force might be necessary. As much force as needed to fix the problem.
People don't have to notify the federal gov. and beg for help when their civil rights are being violated by the elected officials of their state. It is up to the fed. gov. to protect their rights.
That means Trump and the AG.

Thank you.  This is truth.  Trump not only has the authority but the duty to protect and defend the United States against foreign and domestic terrorism.

As for Trumps mini van kidnappings..........  Did he enact the Insurrection Act?  On what authority does he have to scoop people off the streets in unmarked vehicles.  Sounds like something that would happen in Iraq or Venezuela.  What is he doing with them once he scoops them?
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Alexander Acosta Labor Secretary resigned under pressure concerning his "sweetheart deal" with Jeffrey Epstein.  He was under consideration for AG after Sessions was removed, but was forced to resign instead.

Online DB

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Well again, even here in Texas, some of us are forced to pay for "their idiocy" via city property taxing entities.  Entities that, coincidentally, have given nobody a break during this "pandemic" and couldn't care less if people are having trouble scraping together that $$$.   It is what it is, I guess.

The only vote you have left is your feet. It sucks. But as you say, it is what it is.

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Well again, even here in Texas, some of us are forced to pay for "their idiocy" via city property taxing entities.  Entities that, coincidentally, have given nobody a break during this "pandemic" and couldn't care less if people are having trouble scraping together that $$$.   It is what it is, I guess.

This pandemic has affected everyone in one way or another; either psychically, mentally, or financially.  The only entity that gave us a small break was Allstate on our car insurance; they cut our premium by 10% for a couple of months, not much but it was at least something. Our homeowners insurance went up and the electric company announced that they are going to raise rates. So, it looks like we're going to be helping to foot the bill for those out of work. Food prices have soared along with the cost of goods.  People are hurting, out of work and those of us on a fixed income or who managed to stay employed or find employment are going to be footing the bill.  I read that property taxes are going up as well -- so much for downsizing to save a few pennies. I am thankful that we moved when we did though, we timed it perfectly.  No way would I want to be selling a home right now.
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Offline Smokin Joe

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Sorry, your argument won't wash.
 For one thing, nobody has done things where I live like they're doing in Portland and Seattle. Things are pretty quite around here. No violence.
If people march down my street (highly unlikely where I live) and threaten me and the wife, I do have guns, and I will shoot people who attack us. And my street has a number of people who will shoot people who attack their families.
Trump has made promises that he will fix things in the violent cities.
If people's civil rights are being violated (and they are), it is a federal matter. That means Trump can step in with force if need be.
If federal forces are being assaulted by thugs (and they are), more force might be necessary. As much force as needed to fix the problem.
People don't have to notify the federal gov. and beg for help when their civil rights are being violated by the elected officials of their state. It is up to the fed. gov. to protect their rights.
That means Trump and the AG.
First off, These people voted for the leadership they have.
This is their duly elected government. 
THEY CHOSE THIS, maybe not exactly this, but the type of leadership they have. 
They can choose to remove that leadership.
THat is not Trump's job.

Keeping the peace in the streets of those jurisdictions falls on the elected leadership of those jurisdictions.
The key word, was the UNINVITED presence of federal troops (not federal LEOs, who have been sent in, who have jurisdiction over Federal offenses).

But to go in and arrest everyone from the mayors to the Governors and the protesters for conspiring to deprive people of their civil rights would only play directly into the hands of a much larger international organization which has unleashed mayhem upon the world.

Sure, there is a part of most of us which would cheer at the video of concrete filled JDAMs taking out "revolutionary headquarters", but  that fantasy would play in the global media like Bashar Assad sending an artillery strike into a stash of insurgent chemical weapons--all you'd see is the faces of poor dead children used as human shields and the glamor shots of the dead 'revolutionaries' "peaceful protesters" that would make Trump look like Pol Pot or Baby Doc, murdering innocents to keep power.

The Dems would trot out pictures of Trump with a Hitler Moustache (may already have them printed up) and will ride that horse right into the White House.

So, I really don't think that is such a good idea.
Even the snatch and grab operations against "protesters" caught damaging Federal Property are being decried as "gestapo" operations.

(Now, of course Communist organizations with their origins in the streets of Wiemar Germany would see their opposition as "NAZIs", but keep in mind that the MSM would be spewing the Trump dictator thingy continuously.
I don't watch teevee news (Can't get OAN), but many, far too many use that, twitter, and fecebook as their news sources.

It's a guaranteed loss. Sometimes, it is better to let the boil fill with pus before lancing it, that way the offending splinter comes out with it.  He can always ramp up Federal involvement, but going in too heavy handed will be a losing gambit. Seeing that requires use of more than the limbic brain. This is a long game, the culmination of nearly a century of Communist effort. Short of slaughter n the streets, it will take some finesse to untangle.
How God must weep at humans' folly! Stand fast! God knows what he is doing!
Seventeen Techniques for Truth Suppression

Of all tyrannies, a tyranny sincerely exercised for the good of its victims may be the most oppressive. It would be better to live under robber barons than under omnipotent moral busybodies. The robber baron's cruelty may sometimes sleep, his cupidity may at some point be satiated; but those who torment us for our own good will torment us without end for they do so with the approval of their own conscience.

C S Lewis

Offline XenaLee

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This pandemic has affected everyone in one way or another; either psychically, mentally, or financially.  The only entity that gave us a small break was Allstate on our car insurance; they cut our premium by 10% for a couple of months, not much but it was at least something. Our homeowners insurance went up and the electric company announced that they are going to raise rates. So, it looks like we're going to be helping to foot the bill for those out of work. Food prices have soared along with the cost of goods.  People are hurting, out of work and those of us on a fixed income or who managed to stay employed or find employment are going to be footing the bill.  I read that property taxes are going up as well -- so much for downsizing to save a few pennies. I am thankful that we moved when we did though, we timed it perfectly.  No way would I want to be selling a home right now.

Exactly.
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Offline mountaineer

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On what authority does he have to scoop people off the streets in unmarked vehicles.  Sounds like something that would happen in Iraq or Venezuela.  What is he doing with them once he scoops them?
Oh my gosh. Do you really believe this crap? Get a grip.
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Smokin' Joe wrote:
"This is a long game, the culmination of nearly a century of communist effort. Short of slaughter n the streets, it will take some finesse to untangle."

Where, in the history of communism, has one of their "revolutions" ever been undone by "finesse"...? Or halted in-progress by the same? I'd like to know of one.

Fishrrman haiku:
Perhaps we hadn't oughta
Talk of slaughter, but
It will take more
than finesse,
To untangle
this mess...
« Last Edit: July 18, 2020, 10:28:41 pm by Fishrrman »

Offline Smokin Joe

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Smokin' Joe wrote:
"This is a long game, the culmination of nearly a century of communist effort. Short of slaughter n the streets, it will take some finesse to untangle."

Where, in the history of communism, has one of their "revolutions" ever been undone by "finesse"...? Or halted in-progress by the same? I'd like to know of one.

Fishrrman haiku:
Perhaps we hadn't oughta
Talk of slaughter, but
It will take more
than finesse,
To untangle
this mess...


When they start shootin'
We can act like Putin.
How God must weep at humans' folly! Stand fast! God knows what he is doing!
Seventeen Techniques for Truth Suppression

Of all tyrannies, a tyranny sincerely exercised for the good of its victims may be the most oppressive. It would be better to live under robber barons than under omnipotent moral busybodies. The robber baron's cruelty may sometimes sleep, his cupidity may at some point be satiated; but those who torment us for our own good will torment us without end for they do so with the approval of their own conscience.

C S Lewis