Don’t Abolish the Police. Reform Them.

[EasyAce]

The lessons of Camden's decision to disband its police department.
By Brent Orrell
https://thebulwark.com/dont-abolish-the-police-reform-them/

Our police forces are bloated.

But simply reducing budgets without first addressing how police forces are structured and function, is an invitation to even worse outcomes. So instead of “defunding” or “abolishing” the police, we ought to look to cities that have successfully recreated their law enforcement structures on principles that genuinely honor the central ideas of protection and service.

A lot of people are talking about Camden, New Jersey, which has the distinction of being (a) one of the most corrupt cities in New Jersey and (b) a city that took the extraordinary step of disbanding its entire police force.

But the most interesting thing isn’t how Camden abolished the Camden police. It’s how the city successfully recreated a police force that sees itself as an ally of the community rather than its warden . . .

. . . On balance, these reforms have been successful. Complaints about excessive force are down 95 percent since 2014—there were a total of three of them in 2019. Homicides fell by nearly one-third between 2012 and 2019 and the “clearance rate” on murder and violent crime increased . . .

. . . The left and right can both learn from Camden. For the right, it shows that radical restructuring need not mean a “defunding” that returns communities to a state of nature. Rather, the restructuring has sought to vindicate the dignity and rights of individuals, families, and neighborhoods by reconstituting law enforcement as a servant rather than a master. While the force has expanded by 40 percent, the police budget has increased by only about 9 percent during the same period. Officers are getting paid a lot less, with the average annual salary falling from $182,168 to $99,605. Yet while this drop in pay has a leaner force, it’s also created a kinder and more professional force. Which is not a consequence that would have been immediately obvious, market economics being what they are.

For the left, this experiment is showing that a police force can be strong without being either brutal or abusive. Further, it shows that police who understand the proper role of law enforcement can become a more positive force in the community rather than one that is in tension with those who it exists to serve . . .

[skeeter]

What do I know - I'm no cop, but IMO a big part of the problem is the change in tactics over the years, as dictated by unions & bureaucrats. Police, who were seen as an integral part of the community in the past and were much more accessible, are now much farther removed from the community. Most of our interactions revolve around revenue generating activities which are required of them but don't do their image much good.

Maybe this is just an unavoidable fact of life, given urban and suburban sprawl and other sociological changes. But perhaps its possible to get back to something similar to the way things were done back decades ago.

[sneakypete]

The lessons of Camden's decision to disband its police department.
By Brent Orrell
https://thebulwark.com/dont-abolish-the-police-reform-them/

@EasyAce

The AVERAGE cop salary in a cess pool like Camden,NJ WAS 180k a year,and is STILL 100K now??

Looks like you could hire a whole damn pack of incompetent retards that are more competent than the old pack of retards for that kind of money.

On top of that,cops and firefighters usually get real sweet retirement plans with free health care,too.

[EasyAce]

What do I know - I'm no cop, but IMO a big part of the problem is the change in tactics over the years, as dictated by unions & bureaucrats. Police, who were seen as an integral part of the community in the past and were much more accessible, are now much farther removed from the community. Most of our interactions revolve around revenue generating activities which are required of them but don't do their image much good.

Maybe this is just an unavoidable fact of life, given urban and suburban sprawl and other sociological changes. But perhaps its possible to get back to something similar to the way things were done back decades ago.

@skeeter
Which is exactly what the Camden experiment sought to achieve in its own way.

My paternal grandfather was a New York cop. (He retired the year I was born.) He was appalled by such undoings as the Harry Gross scandal in the 1950s (Gross was a bookie who turned out to have almost as many New York cops on his payroll as the city did) and the graft scandal of the early 1970s. (The one exposed first when clean cops Frank Serpico and David Durk---having tried futilely to get something done within the department---took it to the New York Times, which led to both the forming of the Knapp Commission to investigate how much more deep it ran than even Serpico and Durk attested, and the collapse of John Lindsay's political ambitions when that mayor was found to be completely out of the loop if not totally indifferent when it came to police corruption.)

And he would have been appalled today (he died in 1972, just before the Knapp Commission finished its work) seeing both the abuses of police power and the looting and vandalism that used very real police abuse as an excuse to break entire neighbourhood, if not entire towns and cities.

[sneakypete]

BTW,know what the Camden cops did,and are still doing?

They did and are still doing EXACTLY what they were told to do by their Chief of Police,and HE was told what to do by the Mayor's office and/or the City Council.

They are employees,and they do the same thing that other employees all over the world do,what their bosses tell them to do.

[EdinVA]

For decades we decided we wanted crime prevention rather than just criminal prosecution, two totally different animals.
Prevention requires a much more aggressive posture and action as well as an unarmed population than simply criminal prosecution which requires a self defensible society so we have to make choice....

[skeeter]

@skeeter
Which is exactly what the Camden experiment sought to achieve in its own way.

My paternal grandfather was a New York cop. (He retired the year I was born.) He was appalled by such undoings as the Harry Gross scandal in the 1950s (Gross was a bookie who turned out to have almost as many New York cops on his payroll as the city did) and the graft scandal of the early 1970s. (The one exposed first when clean cops Frank Serpico and David Durk---having tried futilely to get something done within the department---took it to the New York Times, which led to both the forming of the Knapp Commission to investigate how much more deep it ran than even Serpico and Durk attested, and the collapse of John Lindsay's political ambitions when that mayor was found to be completely out of the loop if not totally indifferent when it came to police corruption.)

And he would have been appalled today (he died in 1972, just before the Knapp Commission finished its work) seeing both the abuses of police power and the looting and vandalism that used very real police abuse as an excuse to break entire neighbourhood, if not entire towns and cities.

Corruption has always been a risk where authority is concerned, and probably always will be. What can be done? After all, the police are a reflection of the political scene.

Enhanced psychological screening is probably the only way to minimize this problem.

[dfwgator]

Corruption has always been a risk where authority is concerned, and probably always will be. What can be done? After all, the police are a reflection of the political scene.

Enhanced psychological screening is probably the only way to minimize this problem.

Getting good people to want to be cops in the first place is half the battle.

[EasyAce]

Corruption has always been a risk where authority is concerned, and probably always will be. What can be done? After all, the police are a reflection of the political scene.

Enhanced psychological screening is probably the only way to minimize this problem.

@skeeter
@dfwgator
Notice in the original article: Each applicant had to fill out a 50-page application, and retake physical and psychological exams to ensure they would be able to appropriately serve their communities. Here's hoping other departments with a genuine desire to change and overhaul their cultures and approaches do likewise.

[truth_seeker]

Defund the fire dept, too.

My town uses the Fire Dept for Paramedics, too. Defund them.

Defund the Border Control, too.

We have lifeguards, defund them too.

We have harbor patrol, defund them.

In-store security-defund them

Dept. of motor vehicles. Defund them

Dept. of Water. Defund.

Trash pick-up. Defund.

Parks. Defund, close the parks.

Beach. Defund, stopcleanup.

Streetsweeping. Defund.

Airports. Defund airports.

++++++++++++++++

Real conservatives will question many functions of local govt., but police-fire are the two that would be the least likely to deserve defunding.

 

[EasyAce]

Real conservatives will question many functions of local govt., but police-fire are the two that would be the least likely to deserve defunding.

They also question---and damn well should question---whether police abuses of power left unchecked portend disaster and atrocity. And demand an overhaul, a la Camden and a few other places. You don't need me to remind you that the only thing more fearful than crime is when the crime fighters become criminals themselves.

(Come to think of it, let's not forget that men and women on the right question---as they damn well should---whether the moon worth of laws on the books now are laws that truly protect our rights or metastasise the concept of government as a public nuisance. And, having questioned, act accordingly. I live for the day when I see someone running for office saying he or she has no intention of making new law until boatloads of laws that do make government into an abusive public nuisance are repealed.)

[GtHawk]

Getting good people to want to be cops in the first place is half the battle.

Who in their right minds would want to be a cop in most states nowadays? It's worse than when I was considering it in the 70's and decided against it when we had a period of ambush killings of police, yeah the odds were against it happening to you but I was never a fan of Russian roulette.

[Cyber Liberty]

I always figured that anybody who wants to be a cop probably shouldn't be one.  Seems like lousy work, to me.

[berdie]

I always figured that anybody who wants to be a cop probably shouldn't be one.  Seems like lousy work, to me.

If I were married to a cop in today's climate, I would be strongly encouraging him to find another profession. I think, sadly, that there will be a shortage of those willing to serve in the near future...to our detriment.

[berdie]

@EasyAce

The AVERAGE cop salary in a cess pool like Camden,NJ WAS 180k a year,and is STILL 100K now??

Looks like you could hire a whole damn pack of incompetent retards that are more competent than the old pack of retards for that kind of money.

On top of that,cops and firefighters usually get real sweet retirement plans with free health care,too.

That salary is certainly not the norm. Sure firefighters/police have a good retirement plan. Why should they not? Why the else would they do the job? I know I wouldn't.

[roamer_1]

I always figured that anybody who wants to be a cop probably shouldn't be one.  Seems like lousy work, to me.

You could say the very same about soldiers, yet they are revered for their oath.
It is the same damn thing.

There is nothing that needs reform, and I challenge anyone to actually look at the statistics.
Cops are doing the best they can against an asynchronous element, often better organized, better funded, better armed, and with regional or international reach... With a government that ties their hands and expects them to be choir boys.

This whole thing is purely bullcrap.

[roamer_1]

God help us when I'M the one defending cops.

[LilLamb]

You could say the very same about soldiers, yet they are revered for their oath.
It is the same damn thing.

There is nothing that needs reform, and I challenge anyone to actually look at the statistics.
Cops are doing the best they can against an asynchronous element, often better organized, better funded, better armed, and with regional or international reach... With a government that ties their hands and expects them to be choir boys.

This whole thing is purely bullcrap.

There is no amount of reform that will make change for the better.  They want a one way convo with a list of demands. They don’t want to acknowledge that they have poisoned their own well. They have to acknowledge the high Black crime rate is at the root of all of this. They have to acknowledge that black media and social culture has glorified criminal behavior and disrespect for any authority.

[roamer_1]

There is no amount of reform that will make change for the better.  They want a one way convo with a list of demands. They don’t want to acknowledge that they have poisoned their own well. They have to acknowledge the high Black crime rate is at the root of all of this. They have to acknowledge that black media and social culture has glorified criminal behavior and disrespect for any authority.

There are only two ways this ends. Capitulation or Enforcement.  And the longer this simmers the harder and more complete either one will be.

[Cyber Liberty]

God help us when I'M the one defending cops.

Imagine the frustration of people who find it necessary to defend the President, while detesting him.

[roamer_1]

Imagine the frustration of people who find it necessary to defend the President, while detesting him.

The difference being that the cops are legit. To a point within the margin of error.

Tumpy is not. To the tune of trillions and trillions of dollars in proof.

[LilLamb]

Something I found very funny, the Houston mayor made a big announcement of his executive order to ban the use of chokeholds in the HPD. That had Houston police officers scratching their heads because they have been instructed for years that they weren’t allowed to use chokeholds. The mayor knew damn well the HPD doesn’t use them. It was all political show.

[roamer_1]

Something I found very funny, the Houston mayor made a big announcement of his executive order to ban the use of chokeholds in the HPD. That had Houston police officers scratching their heads because they have been instructed for years that they weren’t allowed to use chokeholds. The mayor knew damn well the HPD doesn’t use them. It was all political show.

But more to the point, the cops SHOULD use choke holds.

[Sighlass]

You could say the very same about soldiers, yet they are revered for their oath.
It is the same damn thing.

There is nothing that needs reform, and I challenge anyone to actually look at the statistics.
Cops are doing the best they can against an asynchronous element, often better organized, better funded, better armed, and with regional or international reach... With a government that ties their hands and expects them to be choir boys.

This whole thing is purely bullcrap.

I agree ! They are tight-roping this PC environment about as well as can be expected.... except in major liberal cities where they are being overrun with types that would rather hug trees and bow to antifa/BLM than get their hand dirty (especially in leadership roles).

[roamer_1]

I agree ! They are tight-roping this PC environment about as well as can be expected.... except in major liberal cities where they are being overrun with types that would rather hug trees and bow to antifa/BLM than get their hand dirty (especially in leadership roles).

That's right... And what is happening to the cops is the very same thing that happens to the military in theater when political generals tie their hands.

It's a messy business, and awful for most folks to look at. but not as awful as what they are looking at now - which is what you get without enforcement.