BREAKING: Footage shows George Floyd ATTACKING officers before he died

[libertybele]

Will be interesting to hear.  Also, you got to add the concern of Drug OD, or whether he had cervical spinal issues that may have precipitated a severed or cut spinal cord.

OK ... I didn't see this report:

The Hennepin County medical examiner said the combined effects of being restrained, potential intoxicants in the 46-year-old's system and his underlying health issues, including heart disease, likely contributed to his death. It revealed nothing to support strangulation as the cause of death.

Let's hope that the examiner that the family hired is honest and can't be boug

https://www.aljazeera.com/news/2020/05/floyd-family-seeks-independent-autopsy-police-brutality-victim-200531082933250.html

[XenaLee]

OK ... I didn't see this report:

The Hennepin County medical examiner said the combined effects of being restrained, potential intoxicants in the 46-year-old's system and his underlying health issues, including heart disease, likely contributed to his death. It revealed nothing to support strangulation as the cause of death.

Let's hope that the examiner that the family hired is honest and can't be boug

https://www.aljazeera.com/news/2020/05/floyd-family-seeks-independent-autopsy-police-brutality-victim-200531082933250.html

Potential intoxicants = hard core drugs.   

[catfish1957]

OK ... I didn't see this report:

The Hennepin County medical examiner said the combined effects of being restrained, potential intoxicants in the 46-year-old's system and his underlying health issues, including heart disease, likely contributed to his death. It revealed nothing to support strangulation as the cause of death.

Let's hope that the examiner that the family hired is honest and can't be boug

[/url]

The man never lost the ability to speak during the entire sad event.  That pretty much ruled out choking from the get go.

[aligncare]

I want to hear the defense arguments first before I accept as fact that the officer callously murdered George Floyd. Watching police procedures in tense situations can look awfully brutal to bystanders.

At this point, though it’s entirely possible that there were unfortunate pre existing circumstances which lead directly to or contributed to Mr. Floyd’s death.

[Jazzhead]

@Jazzhead

So how are things looking today in the city of Brotherly Love?

   As of now the inmates are running the asylum.   Looting in many areas, not just downtown where the rich folks shop but in the black neighborhoods that burned 50 years ago.   I infuriated a liberal colleague today by refusing to take the trouble to distinguish peaceful protesters from looters.   I won't do so unless and until the "protesters" take the trouble to explain to me how to tell the difference.   

[Absalom]

https://twitter.com/TheBruceMasters/status/1267368091291471873
It doesn't necessarily excuse the cop's actions, but it puts things in a new light, IMO.

---------------------------------------------
So let's evaluate.
Earlier incident reports(?) Lloyd attacking Officers,          Death count: zero.
Later incident shows Officer kneeling on  Lloyd's neck,    Death count:   1
According to the usual suspects, who will rationalize
anything, no matter how asinine, we've got offsetting fouls?
Why of course!!!
 

[skeeter]

   As of now the inmates are running the asylum.   Looting in many areas, not just downtown where the rich folks shop but in the black neighborhoods that burned 50 years ago.   I infuriated a liberal colleague today by refusing to take the trouble to distinguish peaceful protesters from looters.   I won't do so unless and until the "protesters" take the trouble to explain to me how to tell the difference.

The media tendency to go out of their way to speak complimentarily of the 'protestors' is what give the rioters cover.

If I were a cop I would be pretty reticent to go after anyone 'rioting' as long as the media were able to portray them as a saintly protestor.

[libertybele]

The man never lost the ability to speak during the entire sad event.  That pretty much ruled out choking from the get go.

Or you can look at it .... he was able to speak until he was no longer breathing.

Either way ... it doesn't rule out excessive force or being traumatized.  Drug use and heart disease could obviously be a factor, but if he wasn't under the trauma of having a knee to the neck, would he have survived?  Quite possibly yes.

[libertybele]

---------------------------------------------
So let's evaluate.
Earlier incident reports(?) Lloyd attacking Officers,          Death count: zero.
Later incident shows Officer kneeling on  Lloyd's neck,    Death count:   1
According to the usual suspects, who will rationalize
anything, no matter how asinine, we've got offsetting fouls?
Why of course!!!

Absolutely agree. 

[Axeslinger]

Facts (in no particular order and I'll probably forget some):

There has been a conspicuous lack of footage from the moment he's led to the car and the time when he is restrained on the ground.  (Supposition: I highly doubt those LEO's just got a wild hair to throw a compliant arrestee on the ground and forcibly detain him....something happened.  It now appears we know what...he wasn't compliant.)

The kneeling on the neck thing is known and used by every patrol officer, pretty much everywhere.  It's real friggin' hard to get up when you're handcuffed and someone is kneeling on your neck.

Ever watched Cops or LivePD?  The "I can't breathe" thing is uttered by pretty much EVERY arrestee who has to be forcibly detained.  (Supposition:  LEO's don't even hear that anymore...all they hear is blah, blah, blah)

A disproportionate number of the interactions between LEO's and arrestees/detainees  involve African Americans.  They far outpace their percentage of the population.  (Is this because they're committing most of  the crime or because police presence is heavier in their areas.  I have my own thoughts but for sake of this: chicken or the egg....doesn't matter)

According to the preliminary autopsy, Mr Floyd did not die from asphyxiation or strangulation, but rather from previous medical conditions.  (Supposition: if he had a heart attack, it likely was as a result of the stress of the situation and the manner in which he was forcibly detained)
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
Leaving facts, now just thinking out loud:
Had Mr Floyd elected to remain compliant, he would be alive today.  That said, kneeling on a handcuffed subjects neck is utterly ridiculous.  I don't believe those officers (there were three kneeling on him) intended to kill him, but their action's likely directly resulted in his death.  At least one if not two are likely on the hook for  a successful Manslaughter charge.

I would love to actually have a conversation with an intellectually honest broker from the black community.
I'll concede that part of their experience involves things like being stopped from broken taillights (more often) and formerly "stop and frisk", etc. 
I'll concede that really sucks, it would piss me off if my regular interactions with LE were as a result of others' actions.
I'll concede that there seems to be some problems with how some forcible detentions  go down.
I'll concede  that LBJ and the Democrats have absolutely destroyed the woven tapestry of the black family, and that is utterly tragic.
White America did some horrible things to many of their ancestors.
And I'd probably be quite willing to concede lots of other things that are just not coming to mind right now.

Ahhh...but would i get the following concessions:
Their interactions with LE are in large (not total, but large) part due to the lawlessness of a disproportionate number of their population...to the point that to the outsider it APPEARS (!!!) to be something that is embraced by the culture.
Thus, their interactions with LE could be dramatically improved if that cultural viewpoint were to VISIBLY shift towards denouncing lawlessness.
That they have allowed the black family to be destroyed only to be replaced by Uncle Sugar, with all the associated ills of poverty and children born out of wedlock, marriage rates plummeting, etc, etc.
The single greatest problem their community faces right now is that they are killing each other by the hundreds every single week.  How is that my fault?
White America has done more to atone for the sins of our ancestors than ANY other people in the history of humanity. 

Just some thoughts that been rattlin' around in my melon today.

[XenaLee]

The media tendency to go out of their way to speak complimentarily of the 'protestors' is what give the rioters cover.

If I were a cop I would be pretty reticent to go after anyone 'rioting' as long as the media were able to portray them as a saintly protestor.

And that's exactly the end result that the radical left pro-criminal, anti-cop leftists want.

[libertybele]

Facts (in no particular order and I'll probably forget some):

There has been a conspicuous lack of footage from the moment he's led to the car and the time when he is restrained on the ground.  (Supposition: I highly doubt those LEO's just got a wild hair to throw a compliant arrestee on the ground and forcibly detain him....something happened.  It now appears we know what...he wasn't compliant.)

The kneeling on the neck thing is known and used by every patrol officer, pretty much everywhere.  It's real friggin' hard to get up when you're handcuffed and someone is kneeling on your neck.

Ever watched Cops or LivePD?  The "I can't breathe" thing is uttered by pretty much EVERY arrestee who has to be forcibly detained.  (Supposition:  LEO's don't even hear that anymore...all they hear is blah, blah, blah)

A disproportionate number of the interactions between LEO's and arrestees/detainees  involve African Americans.  They far outpace their percentage of the population.  (Is this because they're committing most of  the crime or because police presence is heavier in their areas.  I have my own thoughts but for sake of this: chicken or the egg....doesn't matter)

According to the preliminary autopsy, Mr Floyd did not die from asphyxiation or strangulation, but rather from previous medical conditions.  (Supposition: if he had a heart attack, it likely was as a result of the stress of the situation and the manner in which he was forcibly detained)
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
Leaving facts, now just thinking out loud:
Had Mr Floyd elected to remain compliant, he would be alive today.  That said, kneeling on a handcuffed subjects neck is utterly ridiculous.  I don't believe those officers (there were three kneeling on him) intended to kill him, but their action's likely directly resulted in his death.  At least one if not two are likely on the hook for  a successful Manslaughter charge.

I would love to actually have a conversation with an intellectually honest broker from the black community.
I'll concede that part of their experience involves things like being stopped from broken taillights (more often) and formerly "stop and frisk", etc. 
I'll concede that really sucks, it would piss me off if my regular interactions with LE were as a result of others' actions.
I'll concede that there seems to be some problems with how some forcible detentions  go down.
I'll concede  that LBJ and the Democrats have absolutely destroyed the woven tapestry of the black family, and that is utterly tragic.
White America did some horrible things to many of their ancestors.
And I'd probably be quite willing to concede lots of other things that are just not coming to mind right now.

Ahhh...but would i get the following concessions:
Their interactions with LE are in large (not total, but large) part due to the lawlessness of a disproportionate number of their population...to the point that to the outsider it APPEARS (!!!) to be something that is embraced by the culture.
Thus, their interactions with LE could be dramatically improved if that cultural viewpoint were to VISIBLY shift towards denouncing lawlessness.
That they have allowed the black family to be destroyed only to be replaced by Uncle Sugar, with all the associated ills of poverty and children born out of wedlock, marriage rates plummeting, etc, etc.
The single greatest problem their community faces right now is that they are killing each other by the hundreds every single week.  How is that my fault?
White America has done more to atone for the sins of our ancestors than ANY other people in the history of humanity. 

Just some thoughts that been rattlin' around in my melon today.

Well, .... let's take the race card out of the scenario first of all.  The man's hands were handcuffed BEHIND his back.  He DIED while an officer had his knee on his neck while stating that he couldn't breathe.  It doesn't matter how many cops have used this method before, nor does it matter how many arrested have used the tactic that they can't breathe.  A man died while handcuffed with a cop's knee on his neck.  Doesn't matter why the knee was on the neck; at that point in time that cop wasn't in danger.  The cop had control of the man and used enough force to kill him.  Period.

[skeeter]

Facts (in no particular order and I'll probably forget some):

There has been a conspicuous lack of footage from the moment he's led to the car and the time when he is restrained on the ground.  (Supposition: I highly doubt those LEO's just got a wild hair to throw a compliant arrestee on the ground and forcibly detain him....something happened.  It now appears we know what...he wasn't compliant.)

The kneeling on the neck thing is known and used by every patrol officer, pretty much everywhere.  It's real friggin' hard to get up when you're handcuffed and someone is kneeling on your neck.

Ever watched Cops or LivePD?  The "I can't breathe" thing is uttered by pretty much EVERY arrestee who has to be forcibly detained.  (Supposition:  LEO's don't even hear that anymore...all they hear is blah, blah, blah)

A disproportionate number of the interactions between LEO's and arrestees/detainees  involve African Americans.  They far outpace their percentage of the population.  (Is this because they're committing most of  the crime or because police presence is heavier in their areas.  I have my own thoughts but for sake of this: chicken or the egg....doesn't matter)

According to the preliminary autopsy, Mr Floyd did not die from asphyxiation or strangulation, but rather from previous medical conditions.  (Supposition: if he had a heart attack, it likely was as a result of the stress of the situation and the manner in which he was forcibly detained)
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
Leaving facts, now just thinking out loud:
Had Mr Floyd elected to remain compliant, he would be alive today.  That said, kneeling on a handcuffed subjects neck is utterly ridiculous.  I don't believe those officers (there were three kneeling on him) intended to kill him, but their action's likely directly resulted in his death.  At least one if not two are likely on the hook for  a successful Manslaughter charge.

I would love to actually have a conversation with an intellectually honest broker from the black community.
I'll concede that part of their experience involves things like being stopped from broken taillights (more often) and formerly "stop and frisk", etc. 
I'll concede that really sucks, it would piss me off if my regular interactions with LE were as a result of others' actions.
I'll concede that there seems to be some problems with how some forcible detentions  go down.
I'll concede  that LBJ and the Democrats have absolutely destroyed the woven tapestry of the black family, and that is utterly tragic.
White America did some horrible things to many of their ancestors.
And I'd probably be quite willing to concede lots of other things that are just not coming to mind right now.

Ahhh...but would i get the following concessions:
Their interactions with LE are in large (not total, but large) part due to the lawlessness of a disproportionate number of their population...to the point that to the outsider it APPEARS (!!!) to be something that is embraced by the culture.
Thus, their interactions with LE could be dramatically improved if that cultural viewpoint were to VISIBLY shift towards denouncing lawlessness.
That they have allowed the black family to be destroyed only to be replaced by Uncle Sugar, with all the associated ills of poverty and children born out of wedlock, marriage rates plummeting, etc, etc.
The single greatest problem their community faces right now is that they are killing each other by the hundreds every single week.  How is that my fault?
White America has done more to atone for the sins of our ancestors than ANY other people in the history of humanity. 

Just some thoughts that been rattlin' around in my melon today.

I'll add there has been a conspicuous absence of info on the other officers involved. I'm guessing they may have been a more diverse lot than the media would like.

Maybe there's been more coverage of them on local news, I don't know.

[Right_in_Virginia]

This doesn't mean the officer is off the hook.  It may mean a weakening of "depraved indifference" and another look at the murder 3 charge.  Maybe. 

I'd still like to see the actual training manual for the Minneapolis police department .... the one this officer trained under, any updates and handwritten clarifications.

Again, not to take the officer off the hook, but to help make sure the hook he's hung on is the right one.

[skeeter]

I'll add there has been a conspicuous absence of info on the other officers involved. I'm guessing they may have been a more diverse lot than the media would like.

Maybe there's been more coverage of them on local news, I don't know.

Officers Lane, Thao and Kueng.

And now we know why the media is so uninterested in covering them.

[goatprairie]

This doesn't mean the officer is off the hook.  It may mean a weakening of "depraved indifference" and another look at the murder 3 charge.  Maybe. 

I'd still like to see the actual training manual for the Minneapolis police department .... the one this officer trained under, any updates and handwritten clarifications.

Again, not to take the officer off the hook, but to help make sure the hook he's hung on is the right one.

I am not a lawyer, but my guess is that a charge of murder shows a deliberate attempt to kill someone.
With Floyd resisting arrest, manslaughter might cover this killing.
I agree with your suggestion that Floyd resisting arrest might reduce the charge, but again, I'm not a lawyer.
Although even someone resisting arrest cannot be deliberately killed. I think Chauvin might just be one of those really stupid persons with a Big Man complex. I don't know what was going through his head. You would think if you had your knee on the neck of person for nine minutes who was not struggling, you'd take it off when the struggle ceased.
No matter what different autopsies say, Floyd would most likely not be dead if Chauvin hadn't put his knee on his neck for nine minutes.
Just stupid and senseless.

[aligncare]

I am not a lawyer, but my guess is that a charge of murder shows a deliberate attempt to kill someone.
With Floyd resisting arrest, manslaughter might cover this killing.
I agree with your suggestion that Floyd resisting arrest might reduce the charge, but again, I'm not a lawyer.
Although even someone resisting arrest cannot be deliberately killed. I think Chauvin might just be one of those really stupid persons with a Big Man complex. I don't know what was going through his head. You would think if you had your knee on the neck of person for nine minutes who was not struggling, you'd take it off when the struggle ceased.
No matter what different autopsies say, Floyd would most likely not be dead if Chauvin hadn't put his knee on his neck for nine minutes.
Just stupid and senseless.

That’s the part that’s hard to get past, that he did not or would not recognize Mr. Floyd’s humanity. That’s not how we want our police officers to be. We don’t want robocops patrolling our neighborhoods.

[Cyber Liberty]

I'm a bit of a stickler, but...How do I know the person kicking up the ruckus in the patrol car was actually Mr. Floyd?  I could not see him in the video in the tweet in the original post.

[roamer_1]

In the 8+ minutes that transpired with his face pressed against the ground while four other cops watched, one would think that one of the four could pull a squad car around and place the suspect in the back seat.  That has been SOP any time I have been arrested.

The two cops I interviewed (I understand their bias, interested in the mechanics) said they likely left him there to protect him from doing himself further injury... No more need to tussel till the ambulance got there... They knew he was in need of medical, and subdued him till they came.

[roamer_1]

The same way that a cop with 18 formal complaints is still on the street.  Democrats own this.

Nonsense... All dismissed by IAD. Two official reprimands in his jacket in twenty years. Also two Medals of Valor.

[roamer_1]

Weren't there several cops, all on him at once.

Typical. Has happened to me too.

[libertybele]

The two cops I interviewed (I understand their bias, interested in the mechanics) said they likely left him there to protect him from doing himself further injury... No more need to tussel till the ambulance got there... They knew he was in need of medical, and subdued him till they came.

The independent autopsy has been completed.  Death by asphyxiation.  The results are consistent with what everyone has seen on film.  He was more than subdued.

[roamer_1]

yes, pissed off enough to use excessive force and not let up when he pleaded that he couldn't breathe.

He was not using excessive force.

3 others cops stood by and did nothing.  So that's 4 cops on one man who had his hands handcuffed behind his back. 

That should tell you something.

The fact still remains, he died while handcuffed, on the ground with a knee to his neck.  IMHO it doesn't matter why the knee was to the neck, but it does matter that he did while there was a knee to his neck.  There's no way around that.

No, the knee to his neck was incidental. Failure to render aid is true.

An independent autopsy is being done today by the family.  I find it interesting that the current autopsy report indicates that he didn't die from asphyxiation, ok, then, what did he die from?? Did he have a heart attack?  Did he die from blunt trauma to the neck??

The existing report is a preliminary report.
https://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2020/may/29/george-floyd-died-police-restraint-combined-health/

It found no asphyxiation or strangulation... As I predicted, because that pin hold cannot cut off air, as I know, having had it administered to me with more than average prejudice, more than once.

Preliminary findings from a Tuesday autopsy conducted by the Hennepin County Medical Examiner found “no physical findings that support a diagnosis of traumatic asphyxiation or strangulation,” according to the criminal complaint filed Friday against former officer Derek Michael Chauvin.

“Mr. Floyd had underlying health conditions including coronary artery disease and hypertensive heart disease,” said the complaint from the Hennepin County Attorney. “The combined effects of Mr. Floyd being restrained by police, his underlying health conditions and any potential intoxicants in his system likely contributed to his death.”

[roamer_1]

Will be interesting to hear.  Also, you got to add the concern of Drug OD, or whether he had cervical spinal issues that may have precipitated a severed or cut spinal cord.

THAT would be consistent with excessive force due to that hold.

[roamer_1]

The man never lost the ability to speak during the entire sad event.  That pretty much ruled out choking from the get go.

That's right.