‘Let us work’ protests spread all across the US this weekend; demonstrators labeled as ‘far-right’

[truth_seeker]

Pretty good article.  I agree that herd immunity will not eliminate the virus, but given the highly contagious nature of it, it would come under control a lot sooner if we did not quarantine ourselves.  The only justification for the quarantine is to prevent hospital overcrowding.  That threat only exists in a few places, and now that new treatment protocols have been developed, it appears that hospitalization periods will be dramatically reduced.

Another issue is the governors and their edicts about "essential" and "nonessential" businesses.  There is no reason to close a business that can operate using social distancing.  These governors should have instead closed business based on "safe" or "not safe."  Obviously, restaurants, fitness clubs, beauty salons had to close.  But why close golf courses?  They could easily have adapted with one person per cart and other social distancing practices.  The same with most retail establishments.  There was no reason to shut down shopping malls, department stores, building centers and the like.

The virus is not a crisis of our own making, but the trashed economy is.  A lot of the carnage could have been prevented.

Concerning herd imminity:

See studies from Stanford, concerning Santa Clara County CA, and from USC concerning Los Angeles County.

I don't claim expertice but oth studies indicate more infections and recoveries, than previously estimated.

That indicates more immunity, which in turn may align with the much lower infection/death rates ths far in California.

IOW it may have swept across CA earlier and more extensively than previously estimated, leaving more immune.

More research is needed to verify those types of conclusions. The LA County study indicates periiodic samplings in future, to verify and expand on findings.

Qualifications are routinely made, that we aren'tsure that "immunity" precludes re-infection, how long immunity lasts, etc.

While the infection rate appears much higher, and the death rate is much below previous estimates.

[truth_seeker]

I like your glimmer of optimism; that viruses don't live forever, but keep in mind that the flu is a virus and it reappears every season and has done so for decades.

Consider:

Fact check: Herd immunity would not fully stop the spread of coronavirus

https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/factcheck/2020/04/18/fact-check-herd-immunity-would-not-fully-stop-spread-coronavirus/5156368002/

Herd immunity slows the rate of spreading infecttions, over time.

IOW when enough members of the "herd" are immune, it barely spreads.

[Chosen Daughter]

Whew,  I thought it was just me.   

Its not the fact that he said it, but he said it after he encouraged crowds to form for protest and video shows them not social distancing.  Not wearing masks.  Potentially causing unknown numbers of COVID contact.  The fact that he said it shows that he understands the severity of the problem and the danger that COVID poses  He was right to design a safe plan to reopen the country.  So it is double minded to undermine what is stable and right.  I would have given him praise for following through and getting it done safely.  But he blew it.  He encouraged people to be unsafe just when it seemed they were working together.    Double minded. 

 

James 1:8  King James Version (KJV)
8 A double minded man is unstable in all his ways.

[truth_seeker]

     Double minded. 

 

Many people admit to being of two minds, on this.

Empathetic to both sides. But that doesn't make it go away, or remove the two apparently conflicting viewpoints.

Adults readily admit there are unresolved conglicts, friction.

Political Adults, do Like the Stones say, "You Can't Always Get What You Want."

While doctors nurses work 18 hour days, you seemingly have an unhealthy amount of obsessive time devoted to your TDS.

Since on every thread you start with three posts, to anybody else, it appears you get paid/compensated, by the post.

 

[jmyrlefuller]

With the flu:
  USGS environmental health website

So, of the 16, you get one, and of the 9 you get another, 144 possible combinations. Some infect humans, some don't. Some will kill you some won't. Multiple combinations may be in circulation at any given time.

Spin the wheel, pays your money takes your choice.

The flu keeps "coming back" because of the different variants possible.
Any given year, the "flu shot" is a guess as to what is to be most likely to be circulating that year, infectious, and lethal.

This is an important point, and many of the same issues with the influenza virus also affect coronavirus.

Human coronaviruses (coronaviri?) have been around for a very long time. This particular pathogen is one of many; it just happens to be much slower to infect and to leave than most, which contributes to its infectiousness and difficulty tracking it. Most others are no worse than the common cold. Chances are, a much weaker one will be circulating next year and we won't even notice it.

[mountaineer]

Letter to the editor, Pittsburgh Tribune Review:

Will we get our rights back after covid-19?
Tribune-Review | Tuesday, April 21, 2020 5:00 a.m.


The Centers for Disease Control admits tests for covid-19 sent to states are flawed. The CDC also said the cause of death of those who tested positive for covid-19 is from covid-19 no matter the real cause of death. And that is with a flawed test! Hospitals are being reimbursed for uninsured patients who test positive, so a lot of those patients do test positive for covid-19. Surprise, surprise! Lots of dominoes are falling in our country.

Tyranny hitches a ride on the virus as a way to enter our lives. A young man in California was paddleboarding, not close to anyone, and was arrested for violating the stay-at-home order. Two pastors from Louisiana and Florida were arrested for refusal to cancel church services.

And our own Gov. Tom Wolf: A real wolf in sheep’s clothing. He closed turnpike rest areas but still collected the tolls, only rescinding the order after motorists and truckers protested. Wolf decides — arbitrarily? — what is an essential business to stay open, and makes others apply for waivers.

Dr. Anthony Fauci recommends we could “relax social distancing” once there are “no new cases and no deaths.” Bill Gates says “no large public gatherings” until a vaccine is available to everyone. Gates also proposes a digital certificate for each person who had covid-19 and survived and for those who got the vaccine.

When the virus has finally surrendered, do we get our rights back? To me, the virus lockdown resembles the reasons we are given for bogus wars.

Source    @Applewood

[Smokin Joe]

This is an important point, and many of the same issues with the influenza virus also affect coronavirus.

Human coronaviruses (coronaviri?) have been around for a very long time. This particular pathogen is one of many; it just happens to be much slower to infect and to leave than most, which contributes to its infectiousness and difficulty tracking it. Most others are no worse than the common cold. Chances are, a much weaker one will be circulating next year and we won't even notice it.

Well, now that the COVID-19 virus is here, however it got here, it will inevitably mutate. Some forms will be more dangerous, most will likely be less so or medically insignificant.
What will be different is that we will have more information, for starters, and we may well have a medical regimen that can render the virus relatively insignificant. Our actions, our pharmacology can evolve, also, but pursuing pharmacology (and alternative pharmacologies) effective against the entire class of pathogens might be a preferable course of action. That is the reason we developed antiviral medications in the first place, as opposed to solely relying on a flu vaccine that may or may not be effective against any particular year's emergent strain of influenza..

The more the virus mutates, the more a vaccine is aiming at a moving target.
While there is a fortune to be made in everyone getting a different vaccine every year, that simply may not even be a viable course of action.

[aligncare]

People are angry. They want to go back to work. If Trump facilitates a quick return to normal order (even though deaths from covid might continue to some degree) Trump will have their support and their votes in November.

[Applewood]

Thanks @mountaineer

When I was a little mite back in the 1950s, there were quarantines for different illnesses -- polio was  one of them until the Salk vaccine was developed and I think there were quarantines for smallpox and tuberculosis.  I was too young to really remember.  I just vaguely remember the big orange QUARANTINE sign on my best friend's house.  But back then, when people were told to stay home, they stayed home.  In those days people were more trusting of their leaders  If the president, surgeon general or some state or local official said "stand on your head," you would do it. 

These days, we can't trust our leaders at all.  I've said this before -- I don't trust anything about this outbreak.  Not the number of cases/fatalities, not the preventative measures like staying home, wearing a mask and all the other horse manure foisted upon us in the name of stemming the outbreak of this disease.  Somewhere in all of this, there is  some hidden agenda or political motive.   This is particularly true at this time because we have a presidential election coming up later this year (I hope) and both parties are looking for ways to use this outbreak for political gain.  In the middle are us average shlubs confined to our homes, some of us out of work, unable to pay their bills, unable to see their loved ones, unable to get a haircut or anything else. 

I don't know how long the quarantines of the 1950s lasted or what other restrictions were put in place back in the day, but surely, there has to be an end to all of this somewhere.  Ok, maybe it's not good to throw open the doors of every business and let everyone in just yet.  Maybe a gradual return to normalcy is best.  But we have to start somewhere and the "sometime" is now. 

By the way, I guess you heard Goobernor Wolf extended the stay-at-home order in PA to May 8, but he is going to allow some construction work and vehicular sales to resume.  Dang it, man, open up the hair salons and barber shops.  I need a haircut badly.  Starting to look like a shaggy dog.  LOL

[Smokin Joe]

Road construction crews should be going full steam ahead right now, while traffic is down.

[txradioguy]

Road construction crews should be going full steam ahead right now, while traffic is down.

@Smokin Joe

Not here.  I've driven on roads in Baghdad in 2003 that had less craters in them than what you'll see in Colorado Springs.

[Smokin Joe]

@Smokin Joe

Not here.  I've driven on roads in Baghdad in 2003 that had less craters in them than what you'll see in Colorado Springs.

It's a Front Range thing, I think.
In the hills around Denver, as told to me during the Obama stimulus era, the signs went up and said "This road project funded by the stimulus act" or words to that effect. Those signs were removed later that year. No roadwork was done.

[mountaineer]

By the way, I guess you heard Goobernor Wolf extended the stay-at-home order in PA to May 8, but he is going to allow some construction work and vehicular sales to resume.  Dang it, man, open up the hair salons and barber shops.  I need a haircut badly.  Starting to look like a shaggy dog.  LOL

@Applewood  Gov. Cowpie in my neighboring state says he just can't see opening by May 4. This in a state with under 20 deaths, nearly all at a couple of nursing homes. Yes, we're looking shaggy!

[Applewood]

Road construction crews should be going full steam ahead right now, while traffic is down.

I think that's the kind of "construction" Goobernor Wolf is talking about.  PennDOT (the Pennsylvania Department of Transportation responsible for state roads) is itching to start tearing up our roads again (an annual rite of spring in this state). 

Now if the roof of your house blew off after a recent tornado in this state, well, you likely will have to wait.

[Applewood]

@Applewood  Gov. Cowpie in my neighboring state says he just can't see opening by May 4. This in a state with under 20 deaths, nearly all at a couple of nursing homes. Yes, we're looking shaggy!

 

[EdinVA]

Trump says we would have had millions of deaths if we hadn't shut down. 

https://twitter.com/realdonaldtrump

Mixed messages 

Link please... I cannot find ANY reference to Trump making such a statement.

[Smokin Joe]

I think that's the kind of "construction" Goobernor Wolf is talking about.  PennDOT (the Pennsylvania Department of Transportation responsible for state roads) is itching to start tearing up our roads again (an annual rite of spring in this state). 

Now if the roof of your house blew off after a recent tornado in this state, well, you likely will have to wait.

I keep a couple of large tarps in the garage, just in case...

(Hopefully, the garage would still be there, or I could find them....)

[sneakypete]

Of course they are far right. You don't REALLY expect Dims to protest because they aren't working,do you?