Author Topic: Grapefruit vs. Cactus, regular season?  (Read 1341 times)

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Offline EasyAce

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Grapefruit vs. Cactus, regular season?
« on: April 11, 2020, 07:32:45 pm »
A short regular season out of the spring camps is just one idea. With possibilities.
By Yours Truly
https://throneberryfields.com/2020/04/11/grapefruit-vs-cactus-regular-season/



Imagine there’s no National League or American League, for one season, at least. Imagine, instead, there’s a Cactus League and a Grapefruit League, for just one season. If you take the word of USA Today‘s Bob Nightengale, it could happen this year when baseball’s able to return. If it’s able to return this year.

For just one season I’d be all in. Thanks to a combination of a pestiferous viral pandemic and assorted and sundry responses running the line from ignorant to delayed to scrambling and back, it’ll be a short baseball season if the game can come back. A short season is better than no season.

Nightengale says the Cactus/Grapefruit realignment is just one idea being tossed around the horn for when the stay-at-home/social-distancing orders are lifted. But it’s not a terrible idea at all. That’s the alignment we get watching the spring exhibitions, so it isn’t exactly as though we’d be thrown into the Twilight Zone now.

“The plan would have all 30 teams returning to their spring training sites in Florida and Arizona, playing regular-season games only in those two states and without fans in an effort to reduce travel and minimize risks in the midst of the COVID-19 pandemic,” Nightengale writes. “The divisions would be realigned based on the geography of their spring training homes.”

Under this plan, Nightengale continues, both the Grapefruit and Cactus Leagues would be arranged in three divisions each: North, South, and East for the Florida-based Grapefruit League and Northeast, West, and Northwest for the Arizona-based Cactus League.

And how would the teams be arrayed within those divisions? Nightengale has your answer, too:

Grapefruit League: North—New York Yankees, Philadelphia Phillies, Toronto Blue Jays, Detroit Tigers, Pittsburgh Pirates. South—Boston Red Sox, Minnesota Twins, Atlanta Braves, Tampa Bay Rays, Baltimore Orioles. East—Washington Nationals, Houston Astros, New York Mets, St. Louis Cardinals, Miami Marlins.

Cactus League: Northeast—Chicago Cubs, San Francisco Giants, Arizona Diamondbacks, Colorado Rockies, Oakland Athletics. West—Los Angeles Dodgers, Chicago White Sox, Cincinnati Reds, Cleveland Indians, Los Angeles Angels. Northwest—Milwaukee Brewers, San Diego Padres, Seattle Mariners, Texas Rangers, Kansas City Royals.

OK, the bad news is that the Cactus League would have fewer logistical and distance problems, since the Arizona spring camps are separated by no more than an hour’s drive apiece. The spread in Florida is a lot wider, which Nightengale notes might compel a few tricky maneuvers in the event any team personnel might need to be isolated.

A few traditional rivalries would get temporary short shrift to a certain extent, too. It’ll take a little getting used-to picturing the Yankees and the Red Sox in different divisions, not to mention the Dodgers and the Giants or the Cubs and the Cardinals likewise, with the Cubs and the Cardinals in different leagues in the bargain.

On the other hand, several in-state rivalries remain intact, such as they are. The Reds and the Indians for the honour of Ohio. The Phillies and the Pirates, for Pennsylvania power, never mind how lopsided it now is in the Phillies’ favour. The Dodgers and the Angels for bragging rights to Interstate 5 traffic jams.

How delicious would it be, also, to see even a temporary seasonal rivalry between last year’s World Series combatants—each of whom behaved rudely enough in the other’s house, one of whom won it all in the other’s house, with the winner also out-smarting the other’s flair for espionage even before the other’s exposure as electronic, off-field-based cheaters?

You say it’s theoretically possible that the World Series comes down to the Cardinals vs. the Cubs? Since the Grapefruit/Cactus alignment would keep them apart on what comes of the regular season, how surrealistically bristling would it be to see those two traditional division rivals otherwise in a hammer-and-tongs, few-holds-barred feud for a lease to the Promised Land?

Even if they can’t play the games in St. Louis or Chicago, oh boy will Cardinal and Cub fans go nutsh@t over that.

If there’s one thing baseball’s great for, it’s stirring the imagination. Now we could have one of the greatest imagination stirrers in recorded baseball history. And all it took was a nasty little virus out of a Chinese province that resembles a ball spiked with (depending on the developed image) rubber darts or red broccoli florets to do it.

Except that there are still a few problems. The players themselves would be far less than thrilled to be isolated into playing games strictly in one or the other region. Especially those who happen to be expectant fathers with their anticipated offspring due during the season and their wives expecting them to be there for the deliveries.

No matter how much money they’re paid to play, you can’t blame them for not wishing to be isolated even further from the families away from whom they spend enough time during a normal regular season.

Not to mention that, no matter how often some fans in the stands are bothersome nitwits (reality check: a few such fans are too many, and they’re there, they always have been there), enough players admit it’s just not the same playing in empty ballparks—which could still happen, depending on the extent to which the social distancing orders get lifted.

This much we know: Forget the dollars at stake, they want to play. Bears gotta bear, bees gotta bee, and baseball players gotta baseball. They’ll consider any and just about all alternatives if it means playing ball with the least amount of family encumbrance.

“When you’re trying to get really creative, why say no now?’’ says Hall of Fame manager Tony La Russa—who now works as a senior advisor for Angels baseball operations, and whom Nightengale says was told of the possible Grapefruit/Cactus plan.

“So you have a unique season. I’ve got no problem with that,” La Russa continued. “I’m not sure we’ll be able play in our own cities across the country, so if you split it up like that, it’s a possibility.”

How would they play, then? Nightengale says each league would play twelve games each within their new temporary divisions, six apiece against other teams in the league, at least one doubleheader a night when all the teams are on the schedule because of the fifteen-team leagues.

And, everyone plays with a designated hitter.

Oh, you can hear it now. The “traditionalists” snarling and foaming over further polluting the game. Making those poor National League teams now in temporary league with those sissy American League teams take it like a manperson.

Never mind that last year the National League’s pitchers batted a whopping .133 overall or that all Show pitchers batted a lethal .100 overall. You want to keep wasting a lineup spot on that? Instead of your team putting what amounts to an extra cleanup hitter or an extra leadoff-type hitter in the spot? Instead of having a fifty percent or better shot at putting more runs on the board?

I was in the anti-DH camp for a long enough time. For life, actually. And for the same reason—“tradition.” I don’t dismiss tradition lightly, but there are traditions worth keeping and traditions worth dumping. Baseball’s dumped a few traditions best left to the scrap heap, too. Remember how long it was “traditional” to bar non-white players from “organised” baseball? Or to play strictly day ball?

Sure, it’s a blast (pun intended) when a pitcher hits one into the seats—once in the proverbial blue moon, but it’s just a little self-defeating to sustain some cockeyed idea of “tradition” when you might be adding a little more real run creation/production. “It’s fun to see Max Scherzer slap a single to right field and run it out like he thinks he’s Ty Cobb,” the incomparable Thomas Boswell wrote last year.

But I’ll sacrifice that pleasure to get rid of the thousands of rallies I’ve seen killed when an inning ends with one pitcher working around a competent No. 8 hitter so he can then strike out the other pitcher. When you get in a jam in the AL, you must pitch your way out of it, not ‘pitch around’ your way out of it.

As a result, some weaker pitchers survive in the NL. But survival-of-the-unfittest isn’t good for the evolution of a league. Over time, high-quality hitters migrate to the AL, where they can have longer, richer careers by finishing as a DH. That is the main reason the AL has dominated interleague play in this century.

By the way, the blow that arguably did the most to put the last World Series into the Nationals’ bank? After the same Max Scherzer pitched on less than fumes and somehow managed to keep things no worse than a 2-0 Nats deficit through five innings?

That would be Howie Kendrick, turning on a Will Harris cutter arriving off the middle of the plate, sending it off the Minute Maid Park right field foul pole with a bonk! “It doesn’t add up,” said Astros shortstop Carlos Correa when it was over. “The way [Harris] throws his cutter, it’s one of the nastiest cutters in the game. Down and away, on the black, and [Kendrick] hits it off the foul pole.”

Kendrick was the Nats’ DH on the evening. Do you still want to argue against it sticking around after the coronaball season when baseball goes back to normal next year?
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"The question of who is right is a small one, indeed, beside the question of what is right."---Albert Jay Nock.

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Offline txradioguy

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Re: Grapefruit vs. Cactus, regular season?
« Reply #1 on: April 11, 2020, 07:53:32 pm »
If they do this instead of being rational and having a regular season.  Then any records that get broken this year shouldn't count in the official MLB record books.

Also...enforce the DH rule in both leagues.
« Last Edit: April 11, 2020, 07:54:19 pm by txradioguy »
The libs/dems of today are the Quislings of former years. The cowards who would vote a fraud into office in exchange for handouts from the devil.

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Offline EasyAce

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Re: Grapefruit vs. Cactus, regular season?
« Reply #2 on: April 11, 2020, 07:54:49 pm »
If they do this instead of being rational and having a regular season.  Then any records that get broken this year shouldn't count in the official MLB record books.
@txradioguy

Should have thought of that after the insanity of how they lined things up in 1981. (P.S. This would be a regular season.)


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Offline txradioguy

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Re: Grapefruit vs. Cactus, regular season?
« Reply #3 on: April 11, 2020, 08:02:42 pm »
@txradioguy

Should have thought of that after the insanity of how they lined things up in 1981. (P.S. This would be a regular season.)

I agree.  That was a very weird season the way it was divided up.  I didn't realize it at the time because of my age.  I do remember Fernandomania that year and the Yankees - Dodgers WS.

And I apologize...I missed the part in your article about enforcing the DH.

The libs/dems of today are the Quislings of former years. The cowards who would vote a fraud into office in exchange for handouts from the devil.

Here lies in honored glory an American soldier, known but to God

THE ESTABLISHMENT IS THE PROBLEM...NOT THE SOLUTION

Republicans Don't Need A Back Bench...They Need a BACKBONE!

Offline EasyAce

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Re: Grapefruit vs. Cactus, regular season?
« Reply #4 on: April 11, 2020, 08:08:32 pm »
I agree.  That was a very weird season the way it was divided up.  I didn't realize it at the time because of my age.  I do remember Fernandomania that year and the Yankees - Dodgers WS.
And the two best teams in each NL division not even qualifying for the postseason.  wink777

And I apologize...I missed the part in your article about enforcing the DH.
No harm, no foul! This season's alignment if it goes as I described would be a one-time-only thing, but they should keep the DH in both regular leagues once and for all.


"The question of who is right is a small one, indeed, beside the question of what is right."---Albert Jay Nock.

Fake news---news you don't like or don't want to hear.

Offline txradioguy

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Re: Grapefruit vs. Cactus, regular season?
« Reply #5 on: April 11, 2020, 08:11:38 pm »
And the two best teams in each NL division not even qualifying for the postseason.  wink777

@EasyAce that's a head scratcher how Cinci and St. Louis weren't in the playoffs.


Quote
No harm, no foul! This season's alignment if it goes as I described would be a one-time-only thing, but they should keep the DH in both regular leagues once and for all.

I agree.
The libs/dems of today are the Quislings of former years. The cowards who would vote a fraud into office in exchange for handouts from the devil.

Here lies in honored glory an American soldier, known but to God

THE ESTABLISHMENT IS THE PROBLEM...NOT THE SOLUTION

Republicans Don't Need A Back Bench...They Need a BACKBONE!

Offline Cyber Liberty

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Re: Grapefruit vs. Cactus, regular season?
« Reply #6 on: April 11, 2020, 08:14:23 pm »
 9999hair out0000
For unvaccinated, we are looking at a winter of severe illness and death — if you’re unvaccinated — for themselves, their families, and the hospitals they’ll soon overwhelm. Sloe Joe Biteme 12/16
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Offline EasyAce

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Re: Grapefruit vs. Cactus, regular season?
« Reply #7 on: April 11, 2020, 08:16:57 pm »


"The question of who is right is a small one, indeed, beside the question of what is right."---Albert Jay Nock.

Fake news---news you don't like or don't want to hear.

Offline Cyber Liberty

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Re: Grapefruit vs. Cactus, regular season?
« Reply #8 on: April 11, 2020, 08:32:53 pm »
Need any raw meat?  wink777

Naw.  Talk of forcing the NL to accept the DH is enough for the rest of the month.   happy77
For unvaccinated, we are looking at a winter of severe illness and death — if you’re unvaccinated — for themselves, their families, and the hospitals they’ll soon overwhelm. Sloe Joe Biteme 12/16
I will NOT comply.
 
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Offline txradioguy

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Re: Grapefruit vs. Cactus, regular season?
« Reply #9 on: April 11, 2020, 08:37:02 pm »
Naw.  Talk of forcing the NL to accept the DH is enough for the rest of the month.   happy77

It's about time we drag the NL into the 21st Century.  :tongue2:
The libs/dems of today are the Quislings of former years. The cowards who would vote a fraud into office in exchange for handouts from the devil.

Here lies in honored glory an American soldier, known but to God

THE ESTABLISHMENT IS THE PROBLEM...NOT THE SOLUTION

Republicans Don't Need A Back Bench...They Need a BACKBONE!

Offline Cyber Liberty

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Re: Grapefruit vs. Cactus, regular season?
« Reply #10 on: April 11, 2020, 08:56:22 pm »
It's about time we drag the NL into the 21st Century.  :tongue2:

Must be it...lol.  Couldn't be I don't think Pitchers should be pansies and fear having 90-MPH fastballs zing by their heads.   :cool:
For unvaccinated, we are looking at a winter of severe illness and death — if you’re unvaccinated — for themselves, their families, and the hospitals they’ll soon overwhelm. Sloe Joe Biteme 12/16
I will NOT comply.
 
Castillo del Cyber Autonomous Zone ~~~~~>                          :dontfeed:

Offline EasyAce

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Re: Grapefruit vs. Cactus, regular season?
« Reply #11 on: April 11, 2020, 10:21:27 pm »
Must be it...lol.  Couldn't be I don't think Pitchers should be pansies and fear having 90-MPH fastballs zing by their heads.   :cool:
Well, I don't think it's doing a team any favours to have a lineup slot absolutely reserved for guys who make Mario Mendoza resemble Mickey Mantle at the plate, either.

Want to send a return message to the other pitcher but you've got the DH? Try this one on for size: Send that message a) through the other guys' hottest hitter at the moment, assuming nobody's on base ahead of him (you want to send a return message, not suffer brain damage in the doing); or, b) through the other guys' DH.

p.s. You can look it up: the designated hitter was originally the brainstorm of a National League team.


"The question of who is right is a small one, indeed, beside the question of what is right."---Albert Jay Nock.

Fake news---news you don't like or don't want to hear.

Offline Cyber Liberty

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Re: Grapefruit vs. Cactus, regular season?
« Reply #12 on: April 11, 2020, 11:17:10 pm »
Well, I don't think it's doing a team any favours to have a lineup slot absolutely reserved for guys who make Mario Mendoza resemble Mickey Mantle at the plate, either.

Want to send a return message to the other pitcher but you've got the DH? Try this one on for size: Send that message a) through the other guys' hottest hitter at the moment, assuming nobody's on base ahead of him (you want to send a return message, not suffer brain damage in the doing); or, b) through the other guys' DH.

p.s. You can look it up: the designated hitter was originally the brainstorm of a National League team.

I don't much care who dreamed it up.  A player that doesn't hit, and a player that doesn't field, are players who are only playing half the game.  Sorry, it's the "purist" in me. 

Pick up a bat.  Wear a mitt.  20% of the players on an AL team don't do both, the ones who don't do either are called "Managers."  The only reason half the Baseball fans think that's grand is because their teams have been playing by that rule for decades, doesn't make it right.

This is a philosophical discussion that can take that long..so....
For unvaccinated, we are looking at a winter of severe illness and death — if you’re unvaccinated — for themselves, their families, and the hospitals they’ll soon overwhelm. Sloe Joe Biteme 12/16
I will NOT comply.
 
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Offline txradioguy

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Re: Grapefruit vs. Cactus, regular season?
« Reply #13 on: April 11, 2020, 11:21:12 pm »
I don't much care who dreamed it up.  A player that doesn't hit, and a player that doesn't field, are players who are only playing half the game.  Sorry, it's the "purist" in me. 

Pick up a bat.  Wear a mitt.  20% of the players on an AL team don't do both, the ones who don't do either are called "Managers."  The only reason half the Baseball fans think that's grand is because their teams have been playing by that rule for decades, doesn't make it right.

This is a philosophical discussion that can take that long..so....

There's something to be said for not having a lifetime .050 hitter at the bottom of your lineup too.  :whistle:
The libs/dems of today are the Quislings of former years. The cowards who would vote a fraud into office in exchange for handouts from the devil.

Here lies in honored glory an American soldier, known but to God

THE ESTABLISHMENT IS THE PROBLEM...NOT THE SOLUTION

Republicans Don't Need A Back Bench...They Need a BACKBONE!

Offline EasyAce

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Re: Grapefruit vs. Cactus, regular season?
« Reply #14 on: April 11, 2020, 11:37:52 pm »
I don't much care who dreamed it up.  A player that doesn't hit, and a player that doesn't field, are players who are only playing half the game.  Sorry, it's the "purist" in me.

Pick up a bat.  Wear a mitt.  20% of the players on an AL team don't do both, the ones who don't do either are called "Managers."  The only reason half the Baseball fans think that's grand is because their teams have been playing by that rule for decades, doesn't make it right.

This is a philosophical discussion that can take that long..so....
You might care to know that very few DHs perform that role strictly. More often as not, DH teams rotate their DHs for assorted reasons. CBS Sports' Jonah Keri observed as much a year ago:

Mega-sluggers who can’t play the field like David Ortiz and Edgar Martinez are practically unicorns in today’s game. Instead, teams typically use the DH spot to give position players quasi-rest days or to take pressure off minor, nagging injuries. From a pure labor perspective then, adding a mandatory universal DH merely grants NL teams the same ability to shuffle players across positions, but does not dramatically open up a new source of widespread, high-paying jobs.


"The question of who is right is a small one, indeed, beside the question of what is right."---Albert Jay Nock.

Fake news---news you don't like or don't want to hear.

Offline Cyber Liberty

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Re: Grapefruit vs. Cactus, regular season?
« Reply #15 on: April 11, 2020, 11:43:48 pm »
There's something to be said for not having a lifetime .050 hitter at the bottom of your lineup too.  :whistle:

Asked a different way:  Would you rather have a pitcher who bats .000, or one that sometimes flirts with the Mendoza line?  Ya know, even Randy Johnson, basically a .050 hitter, can hit a Home Run.
For unvaccinated, we are looking at a winter of severe illness and death — if you’re unvaccinated — for themselves, their families, and the hospitals they’ll soon overwhelm. Sloe Joe Biteme 12/16
I will NOT comply.
 
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Offline Cyber Liberty

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Re: Grapefruit vs. Cactus, regular season?
« Reply #16 on: April 11, 2020, 11:44:52 pm »
You might care to know that very few DHs perform that role strictly. More often as not, DH teams rotate their DHs for assorted reasons. CBS Sports' Jonah Keri observed as much a year ago:

Mega-sluggers who can’t play the field like David Ortiz and Edgar Martinez are practically unicorns in today’s game. Instead, teams typically use the DH spot to give position players quasi-rest days or to take pressure off minor, nagging injuries. From a pure labor perspective then, adding a mandatory universal DH merely grants NL teams the same ability to shuffle players across positions, but does not dramatically open up a new source of widespread, high-paying jobs.

I hyperbolated a bit.  Rare is the DH who is nothing but a DH. 
For unvaccinated, we are looking at a winter of severe illness and death — if you’re unvaccinated — for themselves, their families, and the hospitals they’ll soon overwhelm. Sloe Joe Biteme 12/16
I will NOT comply.
 
Castillo del Cyber Autonomous Zone ~~~~~>                          :dontfeed:

Offline EasyAce

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Re: Grapefruit vs. Cactus, regular season?
« Reply #17 on: April 11, 2020, 11:51:05 pm »
Asked a different way:  Would you rather have a pitcher who bats .000, or one that sometimes flirts with the Mendoza line?  Ya know, even Randy Johnson, basically a .050 hitter, can hit a Home Run.
@Cyber Liberty
Indeed he did.

Once.

In 273 lifetime games in which he had to hit and 691 plate appearances. What a hitter!

He hit it 2003, on 19 September, with one out and nobody on in the bottom of the third against the Brewers.

His lifetime slash line as a hitter: .125/.153/.152. (Mario Mendoza's: .215/.245/.262.)

Some flirtation.
« Last Edit: April 11, 2020, 11:52:41 pm by EasyAce »


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Offline Cyber Liberty

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Re: Grapefruit vs. Cactus, regular season?
« Reply #18 on: April 12, 2020, 12:00:30 am »
@Cyber Liberty
Indeed he did.

Once.

In 273 lifetime games in which he had to hit and 691 plate appearances. What a hitter!

He hit it 2003, on 19 September, with one out and nobody on in the bottom of the third against the Brewers.

His lifetime slash line as a hitter: .125/.153/.152. (Mario Mendoza's: .215/.245/.262.)

Some flirtation.

The Big Unit was just an outlying example.  There are pitchers who can actually hit.  The beef I have is, can somebody call themselves a "Baseball player" if they never pick up a bat?  I know, it's silly and there are lots of reasons I'm wrong....
For unvaccinated, we are looking at a winter of severe illness and death — if you’re unvaccinated — for themselves, their families, and the hospitals they’ll soon overwhelm. Sloe Joe Biteme 12/16
I will NOT comply.
 
Castillo del Cyber Autonomous Zone ~~~~~>                          :dontfeed:

Offline EasyAce

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Re: Grapefruit vs. Cactus, regular season?
« Reply #19 on: April 12, 2020, 12:09:08 am »
The Big Unit was just an outlying example.  There are pitchers who can actually hit.
Well, when the pitchers all across the Show hit .100 and the National League's pitchers alone hit .133 last year, I'd say those few pitchers who can hit are outliers, too.


"The question of who is right is a small one, indeed, beside the question of what is right."---Albert Jay Nock.

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Offline txradioguy

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Re: Grapefruit vs. Cactus, regular season?
« Reply #20 on: April 12, 2020, 12:21:29 am »
The Big Unit was just an outlying example.  There are pitchers who can actually hit.  The beef I have is, can somebody call themselves a "Baseball player" if they never pick up a bat?  I know, it's silly and there are lots of reasons I'm wrong....

I can only think of two off the top of my head...Orel Hershiser and Ric Ankiel.  Ankiel's BA only got to the Mendoza line though after he became an outfielder.  :shrug:
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Offline MajorClay

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Re: Grapefruit vs. Cactus, regular season?
« Reply #21 on: April 12, 2020, 03:29:37 am »
Summer is Too hot in Arizona, the games would have to be played at 6:30 in the morning to avoid heat stroke.

Offline EasyAce

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Re: Grapefruit vs. Cactus, regular season?
« Reply #22 on: April 12, 2020, 06:36:16 am »
Summer is Too hot in Arizona, the games would have to be played at 6:30 in the morning to avoid heat stroke.
Which would be great for the broadcasting, since any and everyone would be able to tune in instead of wringing their hands over late night games for a change.


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Offline GrouchoTex

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Re: Grapefruit vs. Cactus, regular season?
« Reply #23 on: April 13, 2020, 09:09:29 pm »
Nolan Ryan hit one of his only 2 home runs during his 1st start as and Astro.

Having seen my favorite team go from the national league to the american league, I wasn't too thrilled about the DH at first.
I got used to it.

Pitching changes were still made to suit the match-ups at the plate,more often than "Oh no! it is 2 to 1, do we remove our starter, etc?"
I fear that may be gone, with the new 3 batter rule.
With pitch counts, they yank starter regardless,  anyway.

The DH didn't hurt anything that I had feared it might.