Horowitz: Is this quarantine or tyranny?

[txradioguy]

I believe the states (not the feds) closed businesses and restricted personal movements during the 1918 Spanish flu epidemic.

So... it's hardly unprecedented.

You're talking about a real pandemic that saw 500 million people infected and 17 million die.

We're not where close to those numbers at this point and I don't think we'll even get close to the numbers from the H11N1 outbreak in 2009.

So yes it is unprescedented.

Restrictions on personal liberties (i.e., freedom of movement)?
Yes, I guess they are.

Are you ok with that?

But... they're necessary and prudent in such times as we are now in.

Why?  What makes this different than H1N1 or any normal flu outbreak we've seen in the last 50 years?

What will demonstrate whether or not we remain a "free society" will be determined AFTER the virus is gone -- as to whether such restrictions are quickly and FULLY rescinded... or not.

As I said this was a test run for future actions by the Left...and we've failed...miserably.

[Bigun]

And that doesn't surprise me one bit!   

BTW: My daughter is an RN working at a 500+ bed hospital in Texas. She reports tonight that the current occupancy at that hospital is 60 patients. Staff is expecting furloughs at any time.

[TomSea]

I believe the states (not the feds) closed businesses and restricted personal movements during the 1918 Spanish flu epidemic.

So... it's hardly unprecedented.

Restrictions on personal liberties (i.e., freedom of movement)?
Yes, I guess they are.

But... they're necessary and prudent in such times as we are now in.

What will demonstrate whether or not we remain a "free society" will be determined AFTER the virus is gone -- as to whether such restrictions are quickly and FULLY rescinded... or not.

 

Absolutely, there is no need to throw caution to the wind.

[roamer_1]

You're talking about a real pandemic that saw 500 million people infected and 17 million die.

We're not where close to those numbers at this point and I don't think we'll even get close to the numbers from the H11N1 outbreak in 2009.

So yes it is unprescedented.

Are you ok with that?

Why?  What makes this different than H1N1 or any normal flu outbreak we've seen in the last 50 years?

As I said this was a test run for future actions by the Left...and we've failed...miserably.

Dang well right - All of it.

[Cyber Liberty]

Dang well right - All of it.

I worked in R&D for a spell, and I learned failures are not complete unless one fails to learn anything from them.  Did we "fail?"  Maybe.  Will we fail over and over?  Maybe not.  Depends.  If nobody gets pissed off enough to learn, then it's safe to kick the heat up a touch while boiling the frog.  Rinse and repeat.

That's how I gauge failure.

[roamer_1]

I worked in R&D for a spell, and I learned failures are not complete unless one fails to learn anything from them.  Did we "fail?"  Maybe.  Will we fail over and over?  Maybe not.  Depends.  If nobody gets pissed off enough to learn, then it's safe to kick the heat up a touch while boiling the frog.  Rinse and repeat.

That's how I gauge failure.

By that rubric, I predict this will be an overall failure of epic proportions. EPIC.

[Cyber Liberty]

By that rubric, I predict this will be an overall failure of epic proportions. EPIC.

I just don't know.  I'll have to wait and see.  This is not something I'm willing to make book on.

A switch just got flicked on over in Castleburg, my little town.  At 5PM the Governor's "Stay-at-Home" order kicked in and we're supposed to stay put in the Castle.  Until last night, I was happy to hole up in my paradise and wait it out.  Making it semi-mandatory (My City Manager is not on-board) changed the equation and my level of copacetic changed with it.  It's one thing to volunteer, it's another to be told to do it.

The folks down by the river are.  Not.  Happy.  At.  All.  The governor did it at the behest of the Mayors of the large cities.

[roamer_1]

I just don't know.  I'll have to wait and see.  This is not something I'm willing to make book on.

A switch just got flicked on over in Castleburg, my little town.  At 5PM the Governor's "Stay-at-Home" order kicked in and we're supposed to stay put in the Castle.  Until last night, I was happy to hole up in my paradise and wait it out.  Making it semi-mandatory (My City Manager is not on-board) changed the equation and my level of copacetic changed with it. It's one thing to volunteer, it's another to be told to do it.

The folks down by the river are.  Not.  Happy.  At.  All.  The governor did it at the behest of the Mayors of the large cities.

There it is. Me too. I'll be damned if I am gonna listen to that crap. And I won't.

[jmyrlefuller]

I believe the states (not the feds) closed businesses and restricted personal movements during the 1918 Spanish flu epidemic.

So... it's hardly unprecedented.

Restrictions on personal liberties (i.e., freedom of movement)?
Yes, I guess they are.

But... they're necessary and prudent in such times as we are now in.

What will demonstrate whether or not we remain a "free society" will be determined AFTER the virus is gone -- as to whether such restrictions are quickly and FULLY rescinded... or not.

I've actually looked into those. The 1918 restrictions lasted only a few weeks, enough for the virus to blow over. Such short-term solutions are wholly unfit for this virus, with longer incubation and infection times.

We are trying to use early-20th century solutions on a 21st-century problem, and the evidence to show it's working is weak. If we're not dramatically improved by late April, someone will have to answer to the American people as to why we had our freedoms stolen in a failed gambit to "flatten the curve" and cover up for a broken public health care system. This scheme not only wages war on a virus but on human nature itself.

[txradioguy]

I've actually looked into those. The 1918 restrictions lasted only a few weeks, enough for the virus to blow over. Such short-term solutions are wholly unfit for this virus, with longer incubation and infection times.

We are trying to use early-20th century solutions on a 21st-century problem, and the evidence to show it's working is weak. If we're not dramatically improved by late April, someone will have to answer to the American people as to why we had our freedoms stolen in a failed gambit to "flatten the curve" and cover up for a broken public health care system. This scheme not only wages war on a virus but on human nature itself.

 

[Chosen Daughter]

Horowitz: Is this quarantine or tyranny?
Daniel Horowitz · March 31, 2020

Everyone agrees that states have broad internal police power to take action to stop the spread of a public health crisis. You know, kind of like the federal government has power to stop the security and health crisis at our border, yet failed to act upon it for over a year. But are there no limits whatsoever to these internal powers? Can any governor or county executive simply flick his pen and shut every business even if it doesn’t create crowds? Can they unilaterally restrict every aspect of the Bill of Rights indefinitely without any oversight, due process, benchmarks, or transparency?

In Jacobson v. Massachusetts (1905), the Supreme Court ruled, “It is within the police power of a State to enact a compulsory vaccination law, and it is for the legislature, and not for the courts, to determine.” It therefore held that the state’s mandatory vaccine against smallpox was within its constitutional authority. This built upon the established concept alluded to in the landmark Gibbons v. Ogden (1824) case that “reasonable regulations established directly by legislative enactment as will protect the public health and the public safety.”

However, that same court made it clear that there is a point where states can enact policies in “such an arbitrary, unreasonable manner, or might go so far beyond what was reasonably required for the safety of the public” that they would be outside constitutional bounds.

https://www.conservativereview.com/news/horowitz-quarantine-tyranny/

[Right_in_Virginia]

Active thread on this article is already posted here:  http://www.gopbriefingroom.com/index.php/topic,396611.0.html?PHPSESSID=qrruppvimuj4l62fk1k31l0dc5

[Chosen Daughter]

Active thread on this article is already posted here:  http://www.gopbriefingroom.com/index.php/topic,396611.0.html?PHPSESSID=qrruppvimuj4l62fk1k31l0dc5

OK, didn't realize.  Everyone should post in the other thread and they should move this or delete it.

[Chosen Daughter]

In a perfect world, Man would intuitively grasp the need to avoid crowding during a plague.
Yet we are not in a perfect world, so persuasion is necessary to sustain the greater good; life itself.
Yet for cranks such as Horowitz, ideology trumps the greater good.

No, this clearly is tyranny.  Is it necessary to cause a small business to go down?  Some businesses only have a few employee's.  They certainly can keep their distance.  They are nearing police state.  In Washington they are not happy because too many people are still on the roads.  When people start turning each other into the police.

No, this isn't right.  Yet no problem to let the criminals out.  No problem that they can release violent criminals and sex offenders out when everything is closed down.  Horrible government response.  And not only that they are closing people down until June.

[Chosen Daughter]

BTW: My daughter is an RN working at a 500+ bed hospital in Texas. She reports tonight that the current occupancy at that hospital is 60 patients. Staff is expecting furloughs at any time.

That's good news.  With the fear they are putting into people they wont want to go near the hospital for many months to come.

[Chosen Daughter]

This isn't a plague...it's really not even a pandemic.

And Horowitz isn't a crank.

I like his podcasts too.

Ep 611 | Courts and Due Process Are Now Only for Illegal Aliens and Criminals
Conservative Review with Daniel Horowitz
News Commentary

We are experiencing the worst mix of anarchy and tyranny. I explain how the very same governments that are locking us up without due process, oversight, transparency, time limits, or even showing evidence it is helping are letting out criminals. Plus, while Americans have no access to judicial review to limit these decisions, illegal aliens continue to get standing to come here and be released.

https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/ep-611-courts-due-process-are-now-only-for-illegal/id1065050908?i=1000469991848

[txradioguy]

I like his podcasts too.

Ep 611 | Courts and Due Process Are Now Only for Illegal Aliens and Criminals
Conservative Review with Daniel Horowitz
News Commentary

We are experiencing the worst mix of anarchy and tyranny. I explain how the very same governments that are locking us up without due process, oversight, transparency, time limits, or even showing evidence it is helping are letting out criminals. Plus, while Americans have no access to judicial review to limit these decisions, illegal aliens continue to get standing to come here and be released.

https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/ep-611-courts-due-process-are-now-only-for-illegal/id1065050908?i=1000469991848

He's also all over the fact that the Administration...DHS and Certain Republican Senators are actively pushing for an expansion of the H-1 visa program while we've got all this Chinese Virus stuff happening and so many people are being laid off from their jobs because of it.

[Chosen Daughter]

He's also all over the fact that the Administration...DHS and Certain Republican Senators are actively pushing for an expansion of the H-1 visa program while we've got all this Chinese Virus stuff happening and so many people are being laid off from their jobs because of it.

He's always on top of it.  That does not make sense.  I don't think of them as Republicans they are RINO.  Reminds me of a tweet I saw on Donald's twitter.  It was about Romney not having COVID.  He said it was good, but he wasn't a good Senator or Presidential candidate.  But he was a RINO and Trump said he liked him a lot.

Another thing that only RINO's would do is let criminals out of jail over this virus.

[TomSea]

This pandemic has now killed more Americans than 9/11. Good luck saying it's not as bad and check out the definition of pandemic. Yes,  it fits.

Fail to prepare.
Prepare to fail.

[txradioguy]

This pandemic has now killed more Americans than 9/11. Good luck saying it's not as bad and check out the definition of pandemic. Yes,  it fits.

Fail to prepare.
Prepare to fail.

Congratulations...you're now repeating left wing media talking points.  The flu gives us a 9/11 death count every month, every year during flu season? Context matters.  The difference in circumstances matter too.  How many unborn babies dies each month Tom?  No 9/11 death toll comparison form you on that one.

No one is talking about how H1N1 death toll was 4 times the amount of people that died in one 5 hour span on 9/11.

The comparisons are sick and so are the people making them. 

You stepped on a couple rakes on this one.

Just sit down.

[TomSea]

It's a no-brainer, more people have died from Coronavirus than 9/11. Only if one is a bot for the Chinse Communists can one say differently, many more will die. You can't have it both ways.

[txradioguy]

It's a no-brainer, more people have died from Coronavirus than 9/11. Only if one is a bot for the Chinse Communists can one say differently, many more will die. You can't have it both ways.

It's a stupid apples versus oranges comparison.  And you're better than that to fall into much less repeat left wing media talking points.

Or at least I thought you were.

It's an intellectually lazy comparison.

Unless you’re prepared to claim China is using this illness as bioterrorism in the same way those Muslim terrorists used airplanes at a terror weapon to weaken the U.S. and world economy and/or impact the US presidential election.

[jmyrlefuller]

It's a no-brainer, more people have died from Coronavirus than 9/11. Only if one is a bot for the Chinse Communists can one say differently, many more will die. You can't have it both ways.

9/11 also was a targeted, short-term attack. By and large, the death toll was over within a couple of hours.

This is a contagious virus.

[Formerly Once-Ler]

------------------------------
So:
1) This ain't a plague. / A falsehood beyond dumb!
2) It not even a pandemic. / Even dumber!!
3) Horowitz ain't a crank./ True; he's an absolute zero!
Hey one out of three ain't bad!!!

I don't want to play on a thread where I have to argue the meaning of "pandemic" with another adult.  900 American's First Amendment rights became irrelevant yesterday.  My President tells me that as many as 100k-200k American's rights will become academic in the next 2 weeks.  Keep up the good posts @Absalom

[txradioguy]

I don't want to play on a thread where I have to argue the meaning of "pandemic" with another adult.  900 American's First Amendment rights became irrelevant yesterday.  My President tells me that as many as 100k-200k American's rights will become academic in the next 2 weeks.  Keep up the good posts @Absalom

The President is wrong.