Coronavirus, comprehensive and updates discussion 2

[txradioguy]

Nope. Shutting down a country? You've got to be kidding me.

@roamer_1 she all for shutting down the country the way the Lockdown Inc people want us to do for as long as they say and she'll try to ridicule and shame you into bending to her way of seeing things.


It's everything wrong with this silliness and ginned up panic over this particular virus.

[roamer_1]

@roamer_1 she all for shutting down the country the way the Lockdown Inc people want us to do for as long as they say and she'll try to ridicule and shame you into bending to her way of seeing things.


It's everything wrong with this silliness and ginned up panic over this particular virus.

Never paid it no mind at all.
locking down the sick and susceptible is 'quarantine'
Locking up everyone is tyranny, and I knew not to comply immediately.,

[txradioguy]

Never paid it no mind at all.
locking down the sick and susceptible is 'quarantine'
Locking up everyone is tyranny, and I knew not to comply immediately.,

Exactly

[txradioguy]

[musiclady]

Leaving this thread for a while with this  fact....

The 1824 Supreme Court case, Gibbons v Ogden states that the individual states have the authority Constitutionally to enact quarantine laws and health laws of every description.

If you boys feel your states are overstepping their Constitutional authority to protect their citizens, then I suggest you either move to a more Conservative state or elect more Conservative state leaders.



I come to this thread occasionally for information, which most posters provide.   But I stay away from it when the conspiracy nonsense starts oozing out.

So for now.....   

[Cyber Liberty]

Is it safe to say I'm worried about the major infringements upon our constitutional rights yet?

[txradioguy]

Leaving this thread for a while with this  fact....

The 1824 Supreme Court case, Gibbons v Ogden states that the individual states have the authority Constitutionally to enact quarantine laws and health laws of every description.

If you boys feel your states are overstepping their Constitutional authority to protect their citizens, then I suggest you either move to a more Conservative state or elect more Conservative state leaders.



I come to this thread occasionally for information, which most posters provide.   But I stay away from it when the conspiracy nonsense starts oozing out.

So for now.....   

Clearly you never actually read Ogden and relied on someone's facebook meme about it.

Ogden states:

Gibbons v. Ogden, 22 U.S. (9 Wheat.) 1 (1824), was a landmark decision in which the Supreme Court of the United States held that the power to regulate interstate commerce, granted to Congress by the Commerce Clause of the United States Constitution, encompassed the power to regulate navigation.[1][2] The case was argued by some of America's most admired and capable attorneys at the time. Exiled Irish patriot Thomas Addis Emmet and Thomas J. Oakley argued for Ogden, while U.S. Attorney General William Wirt and Daniel Webster argued for Gibbons.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gibbons_v._Ogden

No where in Ogden does it say anything about "the states right to quarantine".

Tell me again about who is providing information and who is dawdling in "conspiracy nonsense"?

Here's the courts final ruling from the link above:

The U.S. Supreme Court ruled in favor of Gibbons. Congress had the right to regulate interstate commerce. The sole decided source of Congress's power to promulgate the law at issue was the Commerce Clause. Accordingly, the Court had to answer whether the law regulated "commerce" that was "among the several states." With respect to "commerce," the Court held that commerce is more than mere traffic—that it is the trade of commodities. This broader definition includes navigation. The Court interpreted "among" as "intermingled with."

"If, as has always been understood, the sovereignty of Congress, though limited to specified objects, is plenary as to those objects, the power over commerce with foreign nations and among the several states is vested in Congress as absolutely as it would be in a single government, having in its constitution the same restrictions on the exercise of the power as are found in the Constitution of the United States."

The part of the ruling which stated that any license granted under the Federal Coasting Act of 1793 takes precedence over any similar license granted by a state is also in the spirit of the Supremacy Clause, although the Court did not specifically cite this clause.

The Court did not discuss the argument pressed for Gibbons by U.S. Attorney General Wirt that the federal patent laws preempted New York's patent grant to Fulton and Livingston.[8] That question remained undecided for the next 140 years until the Supreme Court held in Sears, Roebuck & Co. v. Stiffel Co. (1964) that federal patent law preempted similar state laws.

[txradioguy]

Is it safe to say I'm worried about the major infringements upon our constitutional rights yet?

More than safe to say.

[Cyber Liberty]

More than safe to say.

Used to be, anyway....now it's just paranoia.

[musiclady]

Used to be, anyway....now it's just paranoia.

Sometimes it is.  Sometimes being vigilant and aware and educated doesn't mean thinking there's evil lurking around every corner and everyone in the world is out to get you.  Sometimes all you have to do is find the experts you trust who have no ulterior motive and believe that their education and expertise is what informs their advice.

Sometimes wearing a mask to keep other people safe is just that.....

Being caring enough to keep your neighbors safe and educated enough to know what helps.  No sheep.  No goats.  No evil lurking.  No conspiracy.

It's seriously better for one's emotional well being.

Seriously.

[Hoodat]

Leaving this thread for a while with this  fact....

The 1824 Supreme Court case, Gibbons v Ogden states that the individual states have the authority Constitutionally to enact quarantine laws and health laws of every description.

But we're not dealing with quarantine "laws".  We are dealing with edicts and mandates issued by governors with zero legislative backing.

[txradioguy]

But we're not dealing with quarantine "laws".  We are dealing with edicts and mandates issued by governors with zero legislative backing.

@Hoodat she's note ben dealing with "quarantine laws" the case she cited has nothing to do with them.

[roamer_1]

Sometimes it is.  Sometimes being vigilant and aware and educated doesn't mean thinking there's evil lurking around every corner and everyone in the world is out to get you.  Sometimes all you have to do is find the experts you trust who have no ulterior motive and believe that their education and expertise is what informs their advice.

Sometimes wearing a mask to keep other people safe is just that.....

Being caring enough to keep your neighbors safe and educated enough to know what helps.  No sheep.  No goats.  No evil lurking.  No conspiracy.

It's seriously better for one's emotional well being.

Seriously.

Yeah... no.

[Hoodat]

@Hoodat she's note ben dealing with "quarantine laws" the case she cited has nothing to do with them.

Besides, that is already covered under Amendment X.  The problem today is outlaw governors who are violating their own State laws and Constitutions.  The governor of Wisconsin just got smacked down by his own State Supreme Court.  So no, there is nothing in Gibbons that gives governors the right to violate the laws of their own States.

[txradioguy]

Besides, that is already covered under Amendment X.  The problem today is outlaw governors who are violating their own State laws and Constitutions.  The governor of Wisconsin just got smacked down by his own State Supreme Court.  So no, there is nothing in Gibbons that gives governors the right to violate the laws of their own States.

My governor has been getting smacked around pretty good in the 1st Amendment area lately...and rightfully so.  I'm waiting form someone to step in and put a halt to the racism being put on full display by the Michigan Governor.

[roamer_1]

My governor has been getting smacked around pretty good in the 1st Amendment area lately...and rightfully so.  I'm waiting form someone to step in and put a halt to the racism being put on full display by the Michigan Governor.

We got a crat governor too... But he knows better. Besides, nobody is listening to it anymore.

[Smokin Joe]

OK, stop it. This is not even remotely true.

The smell of farts comes from sulfide molecules. The smallest of these, hydrogen sulfide, is two hydrogen atoms and a sulfur atom. No air filter can stop a molecule that small. Only an airtight barrier could stop a fart.

A virus molecule is several orders of magnitude larger than the sulfides and thiols that constitute the smelly part of a fart, especially a virus that has a lipid (complex carbon) outer layer like coronavirus does. Coronavirus molecules are, relatively speaking, HUGE.

So say what you will about whether or not these viruses can be stopped with a mask, in or out, but this argument that "it can't stop a fart" is so grossly unscientific that it must have come from some overseas Facebook troll farm.

If that coronavirus molecule is "huge", keep in mind the pores in an N-95 mask are even larger.

(I have worn respirators that will stop the smell of a fart. They have a limited ability to capture H2S with the right filters. They are not certified as either escape or entry equipment for even STEL/TLV environments, but it is a feature that comes with the acid gas filters. They are a quantum leap above what is being touted as "safe".)

That doesn't even go into portable air filtration units used to provide positive pressure environments, nor SCBA, nor piped in air in full suits, which would be more compliant with BSL-4 protocols.

What is being bandied about as 'safe' is really on the low end of the protective spectrum.

[txradioguy]

We got a crat governor too... But he knows better. Besides, nobody is listening to it anymore.

Same here in Colorado (where I'm stationed not where home is).  Went in Walmart last Saturday and despite the very clearly worded notice stating otherwise...my self and about 70% of the people in the store weren't wearing masks.

And paying attention to those one way direction signs on the floor wasn't even a thought in my mind.

[txradioguy]

If that coronavirus molecule is "huge", keep in mind the pores in an N-95 mask are even larger.

(I have worn respirators that will stop the smell of a fart. They have a limited ability to capture H2S with the right filters. They are not certified as either escape or entry equipment for even STEL/TLV environments, but it is a feature that comes with the acid gas filters. They are a quantum leap above what is being touted as "safe".)

That doesn't even go into portable air filtration units used to provide positive pressure environments, nor SCBA, nor piped in air in full suits, which would be more compliant with BSL-4 protocols.

What is being bandied about as 'safe' is really on the low end of the protective spectrum.

But if it saves one life....  /sarc

[Smokin Joe]

Same here in Colorado (where I'm stationed not where home is).  Went in Walmart last Saturday and despite the very clearly worded notice stating otherwise...my self and about 70% of the people in the store weren't wearing masks.

And paying attention to those one way direction signs on the floor wasn't even a thought in my mind.

I didn't even notice the arrows in a local grocery store until I had gone down most of the aisles the wrong way already. Just lucky I didn't run up on a herd head to head...(the place was fairly empty).

[aligncare]

I think even Fauci himself called the mask wearing, security theater.

I wear one just to get inside a store for provisions.

[Cyber Liberty]

I've been saying we, the people would be willing to give the gummint 4-6 weeks before we start to rebel against "sheltering in place.  After that, it will require force by the gummint to keep people in their place.

True to form, while most states have lifted most restrictions, the Rat-run states are trying to maintain the grip, and in those states we're seeing people starting to fight back.  This will not go well for blue states.

For noting this, I am called paranoid.  Go figger.

Semi-related:  Why do people always leave out the last three words of the 10th Amendment?  The 10th is not just about States Rights.

[Cyber Liberty]

I think even Fauci himself called the mask wearing, security theater.

I wear one just to get inside a store for provisions.

"Security Theater."  I like that.

[txradioguy]

I think even Fauci himself called the mask wearing, security theater.

I wear one just to get inside a store for provisions.

The only reason I do it at all these days is because I don't want the full weight and authority of a Two Star General coming down on me in the last couple months I have as a member of the Green Machine when I want to walk into the PX or the Commissary.

[roamer_1]

Oh lucky me. I have many respirators... Pretty good ones. I have no idea where they are... But I don't own own of those silly ass masks. And I won't wear one.

And I won't have to.