Coronavirus, comprehensive and updates discussion 2

[Formerly Once-Ler]

https://twitter.com/realDonaldTrump/status/1249424452477235200

Donald J. Trump @realDonaldTrump
Just watched Mike Wallace wannabe, Chris Wallace, on @FoxNews . I am now convinced that he is even worse than Sleepy Eyes Chuck Todd of Meet the Press(please!), or the people over at Deface the Nation. What the hell is happening to @FoxNews . It’s a whole new ballgame over there!
2:49 PM · Apr 12, 2020

More laser focus on the virus and economy.  Fight the real power!!! Fight Fox News!!!
It looks like our President had a really sh1tty Easter.

[Smokin Joe]

I'll mourn them 1/4 as hard since they're dying a quarter as fast.

You're a stone cold critic.

Clearly I have offended you by empathizing with the dead.  I'm so sorry this has happened to you.

It isn't that you are (or anyone else is) empathizing with the dead I find offensive, it is that some of you are so conspicuously empathizing with such a small minority of the deceased, while ignoring the multitude who can't be used to make some political point.

It really is all out of proportion. In the meantime, people with noticed and developing possible skin cancers can't get in for a biopsy, and the clock is ticking for them, just to give one example.

For people suffering from the 8 of ten top ten killers in the US today, their more ordinarily lethal conditions take a back seat to one less likely to kill them.

Yet if Trump takes 30 seconds out of his day to swat at some Media horsefly, somehow he is evil.

I guess picking and choosing is okay when you do it.

[Formerly Once-Ler]

It isn't that you are (or anyone else is) empathizing with the dead I find offensive, it is that some of you are so conspicuously empathizing with such a small minority of the deceased, while ignoring the multitude who can't be used to make some political point.

It really is all out of proportion. In the meantime, people with noticed and developing possible skin cancers can't get in for a biopsy, and the clock is ticking for them, just to give one example.

For people suffering from the 8 of ten top ten killers in the US today, their more ordinarily lethal conditions take a back seat to one less likely to kill them.

Yet if Trump takes 30 seconds out of his day to swat at some Media horsefly, somehow he is evil.

I guess picking and choosing is okay when you do it.

I like to think by slowing the COVID-19 virus, it is allowing doctors to deal with other medical problems too.  I never complain when President Trump is focused on reducing the COVID-19 death toll.  I think 20K dead Americans is tragic.

[catfish1957]

https://twitter.com/realDonaldTrump/status/1249506799532867585

You should reassess your priorities in the light of 20k American deaths, with thousands more added daily, Mr President.

We agree 90% of the time or so, but this is a multi-fronted war, and the MSM are absolutely as big of a threat to this country as COVID-19.

[Smokin Joe]

I like to think by slowing the COVID-19 virus, it is allowing doctors to deal with other medical problems too.  I never complain when President Trump is focused on reducing the COVID-19 death toll.  I think 20K dead Americans is tragic.

Actually, slowing this down isn't helping patients with the other conditions.
It's just dragging out all the protocols that now are added to getting treatment for critical conditions, and bumping little things like a skin biopsy to the back of the bus.

In the meantime, people are still dying of all of these (2017 numbers):

    Heart disease: 647,457
    Cancer: 599,108
    Accidents (unintentional injuries): 169,936
    Chronic lower respiratory diseases: 160,201
    Stroke (cerebrovascular diseases): 146,383
    Alzheimer’s disease: 121,404
    Diabetes: 83,564
    Influenza and Pneumonia: 55,672
    Nephritis, nephrotic syndrome and nephrosis: 50,633
    Intentional self-harm (suicide): 47,173
source
and it is likely anyone who dies of the above (in red) will be said to have died of COVID-19 if they test positive, whether they had mild or no symptoms of COVID-19 or not, but note that eight of the top ten causes of death are comorbidity factors in COVID-19.
In this state, 100% of the dead attributed to the virus had one or more of those underlying medical issues.
So, did they die from the virus or just with it? We'll never know.

In an ordinary year, without the virus:
Number of deaths: 2,813,503
Death rate: 863.8 deaths per 100,000 population (same source as above stats).
Ignoring the comorbidity factors, we aren't even at one percent of that ordinary annual total.

[Formerly Once-Ler]

Actually, slowing this down isn't helping patients with the other conditions.
It's just dragging out all the protocols that now are added to getting treatment for critical conditions, and bumping little things like a skin biopsy to the back of the bus.

In the meantime, people are still dying of all of these (2017 numbers):

    Heart disease: 647,457
    Cancer: 599,108
    Accidents (unintentional injuries): 169,936
    Chronic lower respiratory diseases: 160,201
    Stroke (cerebrovascular diseases): 146,383
    Alzheimer’s disease: 121,404
    Diabetes: 83,564
    Influenza and Pneumonia: 55,672
    Nephritis, nephrotic syndrome and nephrosis: 50,633
    Intentional self-harm (suicide): 47,173
source
and it is likely anyone who dies of the above (in red) will be said to have died of COVID-19 if they test positive, whether they had mild or no symptoms of COVID-19 or not, but note that eight of the top ten causes of death are comorbidity factors in COVID-19.
In this state, 100% of the dead attributed to the virus had one or more of those underlying medical issues.
So, did they die from the virus or just with it? We'll never know.

In an ordinary year, without the virus:
Number of deaths: 2,813,503
Death rate: 863.8 deaths per 100,000 population (same source as above stats).
Ignoring the comorbidity factors, we aren't even at one percent of that ordinary annual total.

You make a good argument.  If all COVID-19 deaths end tomorrow I'll admit you have a superior argument.  I don't think we have reached the peak yet.

[Smokin Joe]

You make a good argument.  If all COVID-19 deaths end tomorrow I'll admit you have a superior argument.  I don't think we have reached the peak yet.

I agree we have not reached the peak yet. The question is one of whether the actions of those working against the measures taken to control this will delay that (for political gain in the protracted economic malaise), will cause a longer, higher, or even second wave (again, so they can claim mismanagement of the crisis for political gain), or will delay effective treatment (for political gain and/or profit).

Doubtless, some of those who would have fallen into the eight of the top ten will be credited to the virus, and that is to be expected, but currently there are political and monetary motives to inflate the number of deaths by manipulating cause of death, other statistics, undercutting Public Health measures, or even banning medical treatments which have demonstrated, time and again, great  promise.

While I would hope we can all get behind the effort to defeat the Hun Nazis Communists Virus (and it should be a rallying point of national unity of that order) there are far too many who would have Americans die for purely political reasons. 
Those are people who should be barred from the halls of power in this nation for all time.

[libertybele]

Actually, slowing this down isn't helping patients with the other conditions.

I certainly can attest to that. I went to my cardio -- basically told to come back in a couple of months when the virus had subsided as now is not the time to present with any adverse symptoms!  My appointment that I had for months was cancelled and I had to argue to get in to see him.  Lot of good it did. He got near me and listened to the heart for all of 10 seconds at most -- I had a mask on and gloves and he did as well and set up an appointment in June. I get the precautions, but I feel because I am high risk, I am being tossed aside.

My other doctors are doing appointment only by Telehealth; the insurance will pay if they do a video phone appt.

[Bigun]

The WHO Lied and Created a Global Panic: Second Extensive Study Finds Coronavirus Mortality Rate Is 0.4% Not 3.4% — Similar to Seasonal Flu

[bigheadfred]

This is where I get confused. Italy and the UK are about 13%. Spain at about 10%. The U.S. At 3.4% according to the world infometer. What is the truth?

No doubt China and the WHO lied.

[Right_in_Virginia]

George Stephanopoulos tests positive for coronavirus
Just the News, Apr 13, 2020

Good Morning America" co-host George Stephanopoulous has tested positive for coronavirus, though he is currently asymptomatic and feels fine.

Earlier this month, the ABC host’s wife, actress Ali Wentworth, tested positive for the virus. She experienced the more typically described symptoms of the illness, including body aches, a fever, and a heavy chest.

Stephanopoulous has been self-isolating at home since his wife’s diagnosis.


https://www.theepochtimes.com/trump-reelection-bid-raises-212-million-in-first-quarter_3309698.html

[TomSea]

Navy Sailor Assigned to USS Theodore Roosevelt Dies of COVID-Related Complications

PEARL HARBOR (NNS) -- The Sailor assigned to the USS Theodore Roosevelt (CVN 71) who was admitted to the Intensive Care Unit (ICU) of the U.S. Naval Hospital Guam April 9 (local date) died of COVID-related complications April 13.

The name of the Sailor is being withheld until 24 hours after next-of-kin notification.

The Sailor, tested positive for COVID-19 March 30, was removed from the ship and placed in an isolation house on Naval Base Guam with four other USS Theodore Roosevelt (CVN 71) Sailors. Like other Sailors in isolation, he received medical checks twice daily from Navy medical teams.

[TomSea]

Hospitals still can be heavily burdened by all of this, time to get past the arguments of 12 weeks ago.

Ambulances queuing up in Moscow:


https://www.express.co.uk/news/world/1268087/coronavirus-russia-dead-figures-moscow-Putin-lies-covid-19-hospitals

[Hoodat]

I never complain when President Trump is focused on reducing the COVID-19 death toll.  I think 20K dead Americans is tragic.

If President Trump were able to reduce the death toll to 10K, would that appease you?

[Fishrrman]

Some numbers from CT (from a spreadsheet I put together to see how many new infections there were each day):
Statewide, number of new infections each day is still "jumping around" but not as bad as several days ago.

But... new daily infections in Fairfield County (where most of the CT cases have been up to now) seems to be trending downward.
Will post again after a few days more.

[aligncare]

News reports this morning, Cuomo announced NY deaths reached 10,000. Democrats love to celebrate every milestone.

I’d wager a large number of those deaths were of people who died of their co-morbidity with covid, and even some who died of completely tangential issues unrelated to upper respiratory, cardiac or lung problems.

But, that’s just the cynic in me speaking.

I also suspect that next year an analysis of 2019-20 deaths from seasonal flu and other diseases will show a curious decline in numbers.

[mountaineer]

I also suspect that next year an analysis of 2019-20 deaths from seasonal flu and other diseases will show a curious decline in numbers.

Indubitably.

[TomSea]

Some numbers from CT (from a spreadsheet I put together to see how many new infections there were each day):
Statewide, number of new infections each day is still "jumping around" but not as bad as several days ago.

But... new daily infections in Fairfield County (where most of the CT cases have been up to now) seems to be trending downward.
Will post again after a few days more.

That's useful. People are aware and hopefully, this is helping drive down the numbers.

[jmyrlefuller]

New York positive cases down to 6,000 or so. That's the lowest they've been in a couple of weeks. With the caveat that it is a weekend report and they're generally lower—even factoring that in, that's still 25% less than last weekend's increases. I think we have passed the apex of infections.

I looked at Italy's numbers just for comparison and they're not falling there as fast as they went up. But then again there seems to be more compliance here so there might be reason to suspect it might fall faster here.

[Hoodat]

04-13-2020 | 19:27 GMT

REGION	Recov:Death	Cases:Recov
Global (excluding China & US)	3.572 ↑	3.803 ↓
United States	1.491 ↑	16.715 ↓
China	23.245 ↑	1.058 -

US 14-day Recovery Deficit - 67,882
Recovery Rate after 14 days - 27.6 %  ↓
Recovery Rate after 21 days - 79.3 %  ↑

https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/


Fourteen days may not be an adequate gauge for recoveries.  So a 21-day recovery rate has been added.  Around 80% of all US cases diagnosed March 23 and earlier have recovered.  Reporting still too low.  I seriously doubt that 20% of those cases are in chronic condition after 3 weeks or have died.

[Cyber Liberty]

04-13-2020 | 19:27 GMT

REGION	Recov:Death	Cases:Recov
Global (excluding China & US)	3.572 ↑	3.803 ↓
United States	1.491 ↑	16.715 ↓
China	23.245 ↑	1.058 -

US 14-day Recovery Deficit - 67,882
Recovery Rate after 14 days - 27.6 %  ↓
Recovery Rate after 21 days - 79.3 %  ↑

https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/


Fourteen days may not be an adequate gauge for recoveries.  So a 21-day recovery rate has been added.  Around 80% of all US cases diagnosed March 23 and earlier have recovered.  Reporting still too low.  I seriously doubt that 20% of those cases are in chronic condition after 3 weeks or have died.

Apparently it's a lot easier to catch COVID than it is to get rid of it?

[Hoodat]

Maybe after 12 days or so, they stop calling to find out if someone died, but forget to ask if the person is recovered.

The Global (excluding China & US) recovery rate after 21 days is 113%.  And yes, a number greater than 100% is possible because the recovered includes people who were infected in last 20 days but have already recovered.

[Formerly Once-Ler]

If President Trump were able to reduce the death toll to 10K, would that appease you?

He can't do that, but I have been a very critical NeverTrumper on most issues, except my President's handling of the virus.  So in that matter I'm already appeased.

[Smokin Joe]

Some numbers from CT (from a spreadsheet I put together to see how many new infections there were each day):
Statewide, number of new infections each day is still "jumping around" but not as bad as several days ago.

But... new daily infections in Fairfield County (where most of the CT cases have been up to now) seems to be trending downward.
Will post again after a few days more.

Interesting. I was looking to see if I could see a pattern in your county data. (I didn't)

In North Dakota (statewide, county samples are still too small), I'm seeing a peak in new cases four days after the previous peak, starting with March 27, and again on March 31, April 4, April 8, and April 12.  So far, in my county, the rate is 22.6 confirmed cases per 100,000 people, or about one in 500 in the population of the county is known to have the disease.

[Formerly Once-Ler]

Klaus K @KlausKblog
The consistent low rate of #tobacco smokers among patients with #coronavirus in China is now duplicated in the U.S. by CDC:
Among 7,162 corona patients with medical records 6,901 were never-smokers (96.3%), 165 ex-smokers (2.3%), and only 96 smokers (1.3%)
https://www.cdc.gov/mmwr/volumes/69/wr/mm6913e2.htm

Klaus K @KlausKblog
Studies show consistently that #tobacco smokers are much less likely to be victims of #COVID19 hospitalization:
9.6% smokers hospitalized vs. 31.2% expected (<0.001), based on Chinese smoking prevalence, suggesting smoking may protect against coronavirus.
https://www.qeios.com/read/article/550


      


www.youtube.com/watch?v=k_klOhy-el0