Author Topic: Coronavirus, comprehensive and updates discussion 2  (Read 225606 times)

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Offline Smokin Joe

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Re: Coronavirus, comprehensive and updates discussion 2
« Reply #700 on: April 07, 2020, 12:59:18 am »
Well then it is a terrible title for the study.  I wonder why the authors put their names on it?
Pulling that quote out of context doesn't let me see what the authors are saying when they  make the assertion made in the title.
The quote just shows the results the French had, and those are promising.
Those results were included in contrast to the results from elsewhere which may have supported the conclusion implied in the title. Nasal swabs would be dependent on not being reinfected as well, it is possible isolation issues or contamination could account for differing results. As always, "More study is required".
« Last Edit: April 07, 2020, 01:05:03 am by Smokin Joe »
How God must weep at humans' folly! Stand fast! God knows what he is doing!
Seventeen Techniques for Truth Suppression

Of all tyrannies, a tyranny sincerely exercised for the good of its victims may be the most oppressive. It would be better to live under robber barons than under omnipotent moral busybodies. The robber baron's cruelty may sometimes sleep, his cupidity may at some point be satiated; but those who torment us for our own good will torment us without end for they do so with the approval of their own conscience.

C S Lewis

Offline Polly Ticks

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Re: Coronavirus, comprehensive and updates discussion 2
« Reply #701 on: April 07, 2020, 10:33:27 am »
Walsh: We Have Become A Police State And None Of Us Should Be Okay With That

Quote
Apologists for our newly established police state will tell me that states and localities have the authority to impose restrictions in an emergency. That is true, but the question of how far their authority actually goes is complicated, and in this case made even more complicated by the fact that these stay-at-home orders, in many cases, are based not on a current medical emergency in the respective state, but on models that forecast the possibility of an emergency in the future. For example, Minnesota is under a stay-at-home order despite having only 29 coronavirus deaths among a population of over 5 million. Perhaps the situation will get worse. Perhaps not. The point is that there is no current emergency in Minnesota or many of the other states currently under lockdown. There is, rather, a model that projects an emergency. And if projected emergencies can justify the effective nullification of the Bill of Rights, where is the limit? Haven’t we now granted the government the power to seize near-total control on the basis of any real or phantom threat?

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Offline TomSea

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Re: Coronavirus, comprehensive and updates discussion 2
« Reply #703 on: April 07, 2020, 11:36:28 am »
Very popular twitter account for Conservatives but he says this and this is outright conspiratorial... and I don't buy it that Bill Gates is, in part, at least, behind this whole thing. That is said in some places, too tin foil for me and he loses credibility with me at least.

Quote
Educating Liberals@Education4Libs
Bill Gates & the Cabal thought they could push vaccinations & microchip technology on us after releasing COVID-19 as a bio-weapon.

But that power grab is about to fail.

Soon everybody will know that Big Pharma & the Swamp Rats in DC have been covering up cures for DECADES.



https://twitter.com/Education4Libs/status/1247547453936631808

Offline Polly Ticks

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Re: Coronavirus, comprehensive and updates discussion 2
« Reply #704 on: April 07, 2020, 11:41:42 am »
A truly disturbing article.  Thanx for posting it @Polly Ticks

It is, isn't it.  I had heard some of the examples cited, but not all of them.  It's pretty crazy stuff.
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Offline txradioguy

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Re: Coronavirus, comprehensive and updates discussion 2
« Reply #705 on: April 07, 2020, 11:56:03 am »
It is, isn't it.  I had heard some of the examples cited, but not all of them.  It's pretty crazy stuff.

Don't forget about the ankle monitors Louisville Mayor Greg Fischer is having put on self quarantine violators.
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Offline TomSea

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Re: Coronavirus, comprehensive and updates discussion 2
« Reply #706 on: April 07, 2020, 12:22:44 pm »
Quote
Senator Rand Paul@RandPaul
I appreciate all the best wishes I have received. I have been retested and I am negative. I have started volunteering at a local hospital to assist those in my community who are in need of medical help, including Coronavirus patients. Together we will overcome this!


https://twitter.com/RandPaul/status/1247552136000557059

Offline Formerly Once-Ler

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Re: Coronavirus, comprehensive and updates discussion 2
« Reply #707 on: April 07, 2020, 12:42:55 pm »
Senator Rand Paul@RandPaul
I appreciate all the best wishes I have received. I have been retested and I am negative. I have started volunteering at a local hospital to assist those in my community who are in need of medical help, including Coronavirus patients. Together we will overcome this!

Awesome.  Great to hear Sen Paul is healthy.  Inspiring and uplifting to know Dr Paul is also volunteering at a KY hospital.  999999999999

I'm not braggin' or nuthin' but I prayed for him.

Offline Smokin Joe

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Re: Coronavirus, comprehensive and updates discussion 2
« Reply #708 on: April 07, 2020, 03:13:47 pm »
Walsh: We Have Become A Police State And None Of Us Should Be Okay With That

Thanks for pointing that out. I contacted one such projection website, which showed (solid, not dashed line) 26 coronavirus fatalities in this state over the weekend. There have been 4, total, so far in this outbreak in ND.  The graph, if added up, shows a total of 29 fatalities, over 7 times the actual numbers. We'll see if they clean up the data.


In our State there are no mandatory travel restrictions, No stay at home order, and no restrictions on "nonessential" businesses.
People generally are following social distancing, aren't making unnecessary trips, restaurants and bars are closed.

A little common sense goes a long way.
« Last Edit: April 07, 2020, 03:20:20 pm by Smokin Joe »
How God must weep at humans' folly! Stand fast! God knows what he is doing!
Seventeen Techniques for Truth Suppression

Of all tyrannies, a tyranny sincerely exercised for the good of its victims may be the most oppressive. It would be better to live under robber barons than under omnipotent moral busybodies. The robber baron's cruelty may sometimes sleep, his cupidity may at some point be satiated; but those who torment us for our own good will torment us without end for they do so with the approval of their own conscience.

C S Lewis

Offline txradioguy

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Re: Coronavirus, comprehensive and updates discussion 2
« Reply #709 on: April 07, 2020, 03:18:21 pm »
Thanks for pointing that out. I contacted one such projection website, which showed (solid, not dashed line) 26 coronavirus fatalities in this state over the weekend. There have been 4, total, so far in this outbreak in ND.  The graph, if added up, shows a total of 29 fatalities, over 7 times the actual numbers. We'll see if they clean up the data.

The data will get cleaned up eventually. Long after things have gone back to normal and our short attention spans are focused on the next shiny object.

By then the damage will have been done.
The libs/dems of today are the Quislings of former years. The cowards who would vote a fraud into office in exchange for handouts from the devil.

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Offline Smokin Joe

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Re: Coronavirus, comprehensive and updates discussion 2
« Reply #710 on: April 07, 2020, 03:23:20 pm »
The data will get cleaned up eventually. Long after things have gone back to normal and our short attention spans are focused on the next shiny object.

By then the damage will have been done.
If then, but I am waiting to see if I get a reply.
There's a lot to keep track of on a website that covers all 50 states and the country as a whole, plus foreign countries, and I am hoping it is an honest mistake and not inflating numbers some place where no one might look. I sent them links to my sources (Bismarck Tribune and ND State Health Department Coronavirus website) to help them avoid such errors in the future.
« Last Edit: April 07, 2020, 03:24:53 pm by Smokin Joe »
How God must weep at humans' folly! Stand fast! God knows what he is doing!
Seventeen Techniques for Truth Suppression

Of all tyrannies, a tyranny sincerely exercised for the good of its victims may be the most oppressive. It would be better to live under robber barons than under omnipotent moral busybodies. The robber baron's cruelty may sometimes sleep, his cupidity may at some point be satiated; but those who torment us for our own good will torment us without end for they do so with the approval of their own conscience.

C S Lewis

Offline DB

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Re: Coronavirus, comprehensive and updates discussion 2
« Reply #711 on: April 07, 2020, 03:28:12 pm »
In our State there are no mandatory travel restrictions, No stay at home order, and no restrictions on "nonessential" businesses.
People generally are following social distancing, aren't making unnecessary trips, restaurants and bars are closed.

A little common sense goes a long way.
That's why I think a substantial amount of economic destruction would have happened regardless of whether government mandated "nonessential" businesses close or not. People simply would have done it anyway. So I can't lay all the blame for this destruction on government alone. We just have to work our way through this.

Offline Smokin Joe

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Re: Coronavirus, comprehensive and updates discussion 2
« Reply #712 on: April 07, 2020, 03:34:34 pm »
That's why I think a substantial amount of economic destruction would have happened regardless of whether government mandated "nonessential" businesses close or not. People simply would have done it anyway. So I can't lay all the blame for this destruction on government alone. We just have to work our way through this.
It's one thing when people slow down on their own, that's voluntary, and those businesses find ways to adapt.

But who decides what is "essential" when the four kids staying at home run out of blue crayons?

It is another thing entirely when Government decrees, arbitrarily, what is an essential or nonessential business, and punishes people for keeping their doors open.

It's all back to letting the marketplace decide, and letting people, if they will, responsibly choose their risk.

Yes, people would have limited contact. Might not have gone to a cafe or restaurant if it seemed crowded, and likely would have avoided situations which would involve close contact--and that would have had an economic effect. But shutting down would have been up to the owner, to weigh the cost of keeping the doors open vs the revenue generated and any risk to customers.
How God must weep at humans' folly! Stand fast! God knows what he is doing!
Seventeen Techniques for Truth Suppression

Of all tyrannies, a tyranny sincerely exercised for the good of its victims may be the most oppressive. It would be better to live under robber barons than under omnipotent moral busybodies. The robber baron's cruelty may sometimes sleep, his cupidity may at some point be satiated; but those who torment us for our own good will torment us without end for they do so with the approval of their own conscience.

C S Lewis

Offline DB

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Re: Coronavirus, comprehensive and updates discussion 2
« Reply #713 on: April 07, 2020, 03:47:19 pm »
It's one thing when people slow down on their own, that's voluntary, and those businesses find ways to adapt.

But who decides what is "essential" when the four kids staying at home run out of blue crayons?

It is another thing entirely when Government decrees, arbitrarily, what is an essential or nonessential business, and punishes people for keeping their doors open.

It's all back to letting the marketplace decide, and letting people, if they will, responsibly choose their risk.

Yes, people would have limited contact. Might not have gone to a cafe or restaurant if it seemed crowded, and likely would have avoided situations which would involve close contact--and that would have had an economic effect. But shutting down would have been up to the owner, to weigh the cost of keeping the doors open vs the revenue generated and any risk to customers.

I'm not disagreeing with you. My only argument is the overall economic destruction was coming either way. Here in Arizona lots of places closed in the Phoenix metro area prior to the governor ordering them to. Liability etc.

Offline EdinVA

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Offline Cyber Liberty

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Re: Coronavirus, comprehensive and updates discussion 2
« Reply #715 on: April 07, 2020, 03:55:07 pm »
I'm not disagreeing with you. My only argument is the overall economic destruction was coming either way. Here in Arizona lots of places closed in the Phoenix metro area prior to the governor ordering them to. Liability etc.

I think Ducey's action, done at the behest of big-city Mayors, is stupid as applied here in Mohave County.  My city has exactly one COVID patient.  One.  But all restaurants are closed.
For unvaccinated, we are looking at a winter of severe illness and death — if you’re unvaccinated — for themselves, their families, and the hospitals they’ll soon overwhelm. Sloe Joe Biteme 12/16
I will NOT comply.
 
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Offline Hoodat

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Re: Coronavirus, comprehensive and updates discussion 2
« Reply #716 on: April 07, 2020, 04:31:33 pm »
04-07-2020 | 20:14 GMT

REGIONRecov:Death     Cases:Recov
Global (excluding China & US)  3.090 ↑  4.663 ↓
United States  1.712 ↓ 18.218 ↓
China 23.166 ↑  1.059 ↓

US 14-day Recovery Deficit - 18,838

https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/



New stat added - US 14-day Recovery Deficit = Number of cases 14 days ago minus (total reported deaths and recoveries today).  This is the absolute minimum number of people diagnosed 14 days ago who have neither been listed as dead or recovered.
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Offline musiclady

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Re: Coronavirus, comprehensive and updates discussion 2
« Reply #717 on: April 07, 2020, 04:44:40 pm »
I think Ducey's action, done at the behest of big-city Mayors, is stupid as applied here in Mohave County.  My city has exactly one COVID patient.  One.  But all restaurants are closed.

Gov. DeWine and Mayor Ginther of Columbus shut down the Arnold Classic (Schwartzenegger fitness gathering), March 4, before the first cases were diagnosed on March 9.  There were none here, but epimiologists knew the virus had been seeded in Ohio.

Because of that, 250,000 people from around the world did NOT gather together in the State Capitol, and because of that and social distancing orders - schools, bars, restaurants closed - put in place earlier than any other state, the number of cases in Ohio is significantly lower......... less than 5,000........ rather than any of the projected models.

It may be stupid in Mojave County because of lack of population density (though I doubt it), but those orders are saving thousands of people from suffering and sometimes dying.

Think of it as evacuating before a hurricane, and it makes more sense.  This is a very real storm (naysayers claims notwithstanding), and getting people out of danger is the responsible thing to do.  Because Ohio's leaders thought everything through early on, though I am in the 7th most populous state in the country, I am much, much safer than I would have been without the measures they put in place early on (think Michigan).

This is not a "police state."  This is shelter in a time of storm.  Just like in 1918, when the threat is abating, the rules will be relaxed, and no one's freedom will suffer in the long term, but maybe their lives will be saved.  (In leftist run states, they haven't had freedom before this, so what the goofy Governors are doing there is a non-starter in terms of debate.  They're totalitarian states to begin with).

The closing of the Arnold Classic was a terribly difficult decision, but wise people made that call, and we are safer for it.
Character still matters.  It always matters.

I wear a mask as an exercise in liberty and love for others.  To see it as an infringement of liberty is to entirely miss the point.  Be kind.

"Sometimes I think the Church would be better off if we would call a moratorium on activity for about six weeks and just wait on God to see what He is waiting to do for us. That's what they did before Pentecost."   - A. W. Tozer

Use the time God is giving us to seek His will and feel His presence.

Offline txradioguy

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Re: Coronavirus, comprehensive and updates discussion 2
« Reply #718 on: April 07, 2020, 05:24:17 pm »
Quote
This is not a "police state."  This is shelter in a time of storm.  Just like in 1918, when the threat is abating, the rules will be relaxed, and no one's freedom will suffer in the long term, but maybe their lives will be saved.  (In leftist run states, they haven't had freedom before this, so what the goofy Governors are doing there is a non-starter in terms of debate.  They're totalitarian states to begin with).
 

If you’re staying home because it’s been said it’s mandatory and you’re not doing it voluntarily and you’re not free to leave your house and conduct your daily normal activities it’s a police state.

Like 1918 huh?  So did you behave the same way and advocate for the same things happening right now in 2009?  If you didn’t then why not? I mean the H1N1 pandemic was worse than this.

Hell this years flu season has killed more Americans so far. Would you be advocating for the entire shut down of the country next year during flu season?

The libs/dems of today are the Quislings of former years. The cowards who would vote a fraud into office in exchange for handouts from the devil.

Here lies in honored glory an American soldier, known but to God

THE ESTABLISHMENT IS THE PROBLEM...NOT THE SOLUTION

Republicans Don't Need A Back Bench...They Need a BACKBONE!

Offline TomSea

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Re: Coronavirus, comprehensive and updates discussion 2
« Reply #719 on: April 07, 2020, 05:44:30 pm »
I've got to say, I know what that "Arnold Classic" mentioned above is noteworthy, I use to read "muscle magazines" at one time.

Well, whether those bodybuilders (bbs) are clean or not is not the issue here, it was some sort of big sports festivals.



And read about it here:   https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Arnold_Sports_Festival

There would always be ads in Muscle and Fitness, which I think is one of the leading magazines though, there are a number.

All of that weight lifting, etc. is sort of interesting but I think most of those guys "juice".... except there is even a "natural bodybuilders" magazine out there... so some try to make a fair go of it and there are contests for them too, they probably get tested to make sure they are clean,.
"

Offline Cyber Liberty

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Re: Coronavirus, comprehensive and updates discussion 2
« Reply #720 on: April 07, 2020, 05:50:05 pm »
Gov. DeWine and Mayor Ginther of Columbus shut down the Arnold Classic (Schwartzenegger fitness gathering), March 4, before the first cases were diagnosed on March 9.  There were none here, but epimiologists knew the virus had been seeded in Ohio.

Because of that, 250,000 people from around the world did NOT gather together in the State Capitol, and because of that and social distancing orders - schools, bars, restaurants closed - put in place earlier than any other state, the number of cases in Ohio is significantly lower......... less than 5,000........ rather than any of the projected models.

It may be stupid in Mojave County because of lack of population density (though I doubt it), but those orders are saving thousands of people from suffering and sometimes dying.

Think of it as evacuating before a hurricane, and it makes more sense.  This is a very real storm (naysayers claims notwithstanding), and getting people out of danger is the responsible thing to do.  Because Ohio's leaders thought everything through early on, though I am in the 7th most populous state in the country, I am much, much safer than I would have been without the measures they put in place early on (think Michigan).

This is not a "police state."  This is shelter in a time of storm.  Just like in 1918, when the threat is abating, the rules will be relaxed, and no one's freedom will suffer in the long term, but maybe their lives will be saved.  (In leftist run states, they haven't had freedom before this, so what the goofy Governors are doing there is a non-starter in terms of debate.  They're totalitarian states to begin with).

The closing of the Arnold Classic was a terribly difficult decision, but wise people made that call, and we are safer for it.

"One size fits all" is never a sound strategy.  The "current crisis" is not an exception.  People will simply refuse to comply if they think it's stupid.

What's good for The Peoples Republic of Maricopa and Pima is not good for Mohave, no matter how one chooses to slice it.  The Governor did this because the mayors of Phoenix and Tucson demanded it for everybody else, when nothing was stopping them from doing it to their own jurisdictions.  Classic leftist thinking:  Punish everybody.  If he wasn't term-limited, he'd be out of a job next election.
For unvaccinated, we are looking at a winter of severe illness and death — if you’re unvaccinated — for themselves, their families, and the hospitals they’ll soon overwhelm. Sloe Joe Biteme 12/16
I will NOT comply.
 
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Offline musiclady

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Re: Coronavirus, comprehensive and updates discussion 2
« Reply #721 on: April 07, 2020, 05:51:39 pm »
If you’re staying home because it’s been said it’s mandatory and you’re not doing it voluntarily and you’re not free to leave your house and conduct your daily normal activities it’s a police state.

Like 1918 huh?  So did you behave the same way and advocate for the same things happening right now in 2009?  If you didn’t then why not? I mean the H1N1 pandemic was worse than this.

Hell this years flu season has killed more Americans so far. Would you be advocating for the entire shut down of the country next year during flu season?

Get some new arguments, txradioguy.

This is NOT the flu  It is at least twice as contagious as the flu.   The only comparable pandemic was in 1918.  The cities that mandated social distancing had a significantly smaller death toll than the ones who let things go.

St. Louis is the example given of one of the smart cities in 1918.  Now, I've been to St. Louis a whole mess of times (daughter lives there),  and, let me tell you........ it wasn't a police state, and it won't be a police state after the greatest part of this threat is over in a matter of weeks.

Fear not, my friend.  Life will return to the way you want it to be, with no further freedoms eroded in Texas or Ohio because we had to stay home for a little while.

Stay safe.................. whether you want to or not.  You're an asset to this forum, and I wouldn't want you getting sick from this miserable virus, so take care of yourself.

That's what I'm doing, and I'm feeling good about it.  :beer:

Character still matters.  It always matters.

I wear a mask as an exercise in liberty and love for others.  To see it as an infringement of liberty is to entirely miss the point.  Be kind.

"Sometimes I think the Church would be better off if we would call a moratorium on activity for about six weeks and just wait on God to see what He is waiting to do for us. That's what they did before Pentecost."   - A. W. Tozer

Use the time God is giving us to seek His will and feel His presence.

Offline musiclady

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Re: Coronavirus, comprehensive and updates discussion 2
« Reply #722 on: April 07, 2020, 05:54:37 pm »
"One size fits all" is never a sound strategy.  The "current crisis" is not an exception.  People will simply refuse to comply if they think it's stupid.

What's good for The Peoples Republic of Maricopa and Pima is not good for Mohave, no matter how one chooses to slice it.  The Governor did this because the mayors of Phoenix and Tucson demanded it for everybody else, when nothing was stopping them from doing it to their own jurisdictions.  Classic leftist thinking:  Punish everybody.  If he wasn't term-limited, he'd be out of a job next election.

I don't know what kind of mayor your guy is (is he a leftist?), so I have no idea what his motivation was.  He had the freedom to buck the trend if he wanted to.  His choice was his choice, and if it was stupid, he'll pay the political price for it.

That's the way things work in America.

DeWine will be reelected in a landslide.
Character still matters.  It always matters.

I wear a mask as an exercise in liberty and love for others.  To see it as an infringement of liberty is to entirely miss the point.  Be kind.

"Sometimes I think the Church would be better off if we would call a moratorium on activity for about six weeks and just wait on God to see what He is waiting to do for us. That's what they did before Pentecost."   - A. W. Tozer

Use the time God is giving us to seek His will and feel His presence.

Offline DB

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Re: Coronavirus, comprehensive and updates discussion 2
« Reply #723 on: April 07, 2020, 05:55:09 pm »
"One size fits all" is never a sound strategy.  The "current crisis" is not an exception.  People will simply refuse to comply if they think it's stupid.

What's good for The Peoples Republic of Maricopa and Pima is not good for Mohave, no matter how one chooses to slice it.  The Governor did this because the mayors of Phoenix and Tucson demanded it for everybody else, when nothing was stopping them from doing it to their own jurisdictions.  Classic leftist thinking:  Punish everybody.  If he wasn't term-limited, he'd be out of a job next election.

I agree. If the local hospitals are not overloaded then there's little need for heavy restrictions. The local medical resource utilization ought to drive whatever the local directives need to be to keep things below triage levels. Much lower than triage levels only extends the down time without much long term benefit.

Offline Cyber Liberty

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Re: Coronavirus, comprehensive and updates discussion 2
« Reply #724 on: April 07, 2020, 05:55:22 pm »
Get some new arguments, txradioguy.

This is NOT the flu  It is at least twice as contagious as the flu.   The only comparable pandemic was in 1918.  The cities that mandated social distancing had a significantly smaller death toll than the ones who let things go.

St. Louis is the example given of one of the smart cities in 1918.  Now, I've been to St. Louis a whole mess of times (daughter lives there),  and, let me tell you........ it wasn't a police state, and it won't be a police state after the greatest part of this threat is over in a matter of weeks.

Fear not, my friend.  Life will return to the way you want it to be, with no further freedoms eroded in Texas or Ohio because we had to stay home for a little while.

Stay safe.................. whether you want to or not.  You're an asset to this forum, and I wouldn't want you getting sick from this miserable virus, so take care of yourself.

That's what I'm doing, and I'm feeling good about it.  :beer:

For the record, I don't think we're a "police state" yet.  Ask me again on 5/1....
For unvaccinated, we are looking at a winter of severe illness and death — if you’re unvaccinated — for themselves, their families, and the hospitals they’ll soon overwhelm. Sloe Joe Biteme 12/16
I will NOT comply.
 
Castillo del Cyber Autonomous Zone ~~~~~>                          :dontfeed:

Offline Cyber Liberty

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Re: Coronavirus, comprehensive and updates discussion 2
« Reply #725 on: April 07, 2020, 05:56:20 pm »
I don't know what kind of mayor your guy is (is he a leftist?), so I have no idea what his motivation was.  He had the freedom to buck the trend if he wanted to.  His choice was his choice, and if it was stupid, he'll pay the political price for it.

That's the way things work in America.

DeWine will be reelected in a landslide.

My Mayor is not a leftist, but he had to knuckle under because the Governor usurped his role.  He's pizzed.
For unvaccinated, we are looking at a winter of severe illness and death — if you’re unvaccinated — for themselves, their families, and the hospitals they’ll soon overwhelm. Sloe Joe Biteme 12/16
I will NOT comply.
 
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Offline txradioguy

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Re: Coronavirus, comprehensive and updates discussion 2
« Reply #726 on: April 07, 2020, 05:58:09 pm »
Get some new arguments, txradioguy.

This is NOT the flu  It is at least twice as contagious as the flu.   The only comparable pandemic was in 1918.  The cities that mandated social distancing had a significantly smaller death toll than the ones who let things go.

St. Louis is the example given of one of the smart cities in 1918.  Now, I've been to St. Louis a whole mess of times (daughter lives there),  and, let me tell you........ it wasn't a police state, and it won't be a police state after the greatest part of this threat is over in a matter of weeks.

Fear not, my friend.  Life will return to the way you want it to be, with no further freedoms eroded in Texas or Ohio because we had to stay home for a little while.

Stay safe.................. whether you want to or not.  You're an asset to this forum, and I wouldn't want you getting sick from this miserable virus, so take care of yourself.

That's what I'm doing, and I'm feeling good about it.  :beer:

You keep saying this isn’t like the flu but keep using a flu pandemic from 112 years ago as an example.

Hmmm.

And I notice you keep skipping over a more recent pandemic. The 2009 H1N1

I don’t need new arguments because for one thing you refuse to even engage the arguments presented before you and instead spew out hyperbole and spin. What I’m asking you are questions...ones that seem to make you a bit uncomfortable to either answer or face because you are intentionally ducking them.

Why is that?
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Re: Coronavirus, comprehensive and updates discussion 2
« Reply #727 on: April 07, 2020, 05:59:18 pm »
My Mayor is not a leftist, but he had to knuckle under because the Governor usurped his role.  He's pizzed.

In the Army we call that being “volun-told”.
The libs/dems of today are the Quislings of former years. The cowards who would vote a fraud into office in exchange for handouts from the devil.

Here lies in honored glory an American soldier, known but to God

THE ESTABLISHMENT IS THE PROBLEM...NOT THE SOLUTION

Republicans Don't Need A Back Bench...They Need a BACKBONE!

Offline musiclady

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Re: Coronavirus, comprehensive and updates discussion 2
« Reply #728 on: April 07, 2020, 06:01:34 pm »
I agree. If the local hospitals are not overloaded then there's little need for heavy restrictions. The local medical resource utilization ought to drive whatever the local directives need to be to keep things below triage levels. Much lower than triage levels only extends the down time without much long term benefit.

Exactly.

The motivation here has been to keep the medical resources available for the people most in need, to expand the capacity of hospitals and medical personnel, to get PPE's and ventilators and other supplies needed to care for the sick and dying, and to keep the hospital and nursing home staff healthy and safe.

It is for that reason that we, in Ohio, are staying home.  We're not only keeping ourselves safe, but we're helping our hospitals and medical first responders and healthcare givers from having to deal with what they're having to do in NY.

It's an easy choice, which is why the vast, vast majority of us are willingly complying with the stay and home order.

We get the point.  And we know it will be over sooner because we stayed home.

As far as I know, there's no Constitutional right to sit and eat dinner at Olive Garden, so we're good there too.  happy77
Character still matters.  It always matters.

I wear a mask as an exercise in liberty and love for others.  To see it as an infringement of liberty is to entirely miss the point.  Be kind.

"Sometimes I think the Church would be better off if we would call a moratorium on activity for about six weeks and just wait on God to see what He is waiting to do for us. That's what they did before Pentecost."   - A. W. Tozer

Use the time God is giving us to seek His will and feel His presence.

Offline Formerly Once-Ler

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Re: Coronavirus, comprehensive and updates discussion 2
« Reply #729 on: April 07, 2020, 06:05:00 pm »
Gov. DeWine and Mayor Ginther of Columbus shut down the Arnold Classic (Schwartzenegger fitness gathering), March 4, before the first cases were diagnosed on March 9.  There were none here, but epimiologists knew the virus had been seeded in Ohio.

Because of that, 250,000 people from around the world did NOT gather together in the State Capitol, and because of that and social distancing orders - schools, bars, restaurants closed - put in place earlier than any other state, the number of cases in Ohio is significantly lower......... less than 5,000........ rather than any of the projected models.

It may be stupid in Mojave County because of lack of population density (though I doubt it), but those orders are saving thousands of people from suffering and sometimes dying.

Think of it as evacuating before a hurricane, and it makes more sense.  This is a very real storm (naysayers claims notwithstanding), and getting people out of danger is the responsible thing to do.  Because Ohio's leaders thought everything through early on, though I am in the 7th most populous state in the country, I am much, much safer than I would have been without the measures they put in place early on (think Michigan).

This is not a "police state."  This is shelter in a time of storm.  Just like in 1918, when the threat is abating, the rules will be relaxed, and no one's freedom will suffer in the long term, but maybe their lives will be saved.  (In leftist run states, they haven't had freedom before this, so what the goofy Governors are doing there is a non-starter in terms of debate.  They're totalitarian states to begin with).

The closing of the Arnold Classic was a terribly difficult decision, but wise people made that call, and we are safer for it.
goopo

Offline Smokin Joe

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Re: Coronavirus, comprehensive and updates discussion 2
« Reply #730 on: April 07, 2020, 06:08:07 pm »
You are right. Not the Flu.

Influenza in ND:
12397 cases (all strains) in 2020
18 deaths, likely underreported.
http://www.ndflu.com/
Schools open, all businesses open, no shutdowns for influenza.
No travel restrictions.

COVID-19 in ND:
237 cases
4 deaths.
https://www.health.nd.gov/diseases-conditions/coronavirus/north-dakota-coronavirus-cases

Mandatory shutdowns for schools, bars, restaurants, recreation, and entertainment businesses.

While nonessential travel has been asked to be avoided, it is not mandatory to do so.
Other businesses are open, at the discretion of the owners.

 :shrug:
How God must weep at humans' folly! Stand fast! God knows what he is doing!
Seventeen Techniques for Truth Suppression

Of all tyrannies, a tyranny sincerely exercised for the good of its victims may be the most oppressive. It would be better to live under robber barons than under omnipotent moral busybodies. The robber baron's cruelty may sometimes sleep, his cupidity may at some point be satiated; but those who torment us for our own good will torment us without end for they do so with the approval of their own conscience.

C S Lewis

Offline musiclady

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Re: Coronavirus, comprehensive and updates discussion 2
« Reply #731 on: April 07, 2020, 06:08:28 pm »
You keep saying this isn’t like the flu but keep using a flu pandemic from 112 years ago as an example.

Hmmm.

And I notice you keep skipping over a more recent pandemic. The 2009 H1N1

I don’t need new arguments because for one thing you refuse to even engage the arguments presented before you and instead spew out hyperbole and spin. What I’m asking you are questions...ones that seem to make you a bit uncomfortable to either answer or face because you are intentionally ducking them.

Why is that?

Because I've already responded to the H1N1 situation.  I guess you didn't read it.

We had a moron in the WH and a sycophant press who covered for him.  The casualties were greater then because we had no leadership. 

But I will repeat it because it is the TRUTH.  This is NOT the flu.  This spreads at least twice as fast as the flu, stays alive in a freezer for 2 years, has unknown complications and an unknown future for those who have had it, it had no treatment....... just experimental stuff now, and has no vaccine.  All you have to do is ask ANY healthcare worker in the field, and you'll get that reinforced.  Factually.

NONE of what I have said is hyperbole.
 
You can keep trying to trip me up with your faulty arguments, but you won't win, because the truth of the situation is on my side.  I'm listening to the experts, not going with my gut feelings.

So unless you have a new argument, there's no need to waste bandwidth on this thread going around and around.

We're Americans.  We'll come out on the other side of this just fine............ maybe better.  The vast majority of us are in this together, and we'll beat it together.
« Last Edit: April 07, 2020, 06:10:11 pm by musiclady »
Character still matters.  It always matters.

I wear a mask as an exercise in liberty and love for others.  To see it as an infringement of liberty is to entirely miss the point.  Be kind.

"Sometimes I think the Church would be better off if we would call a moratorium on activity for about six weeks and just wait on God to see what He is waiting to do for us. That's what they did before Pentecost."   - A. W. Tozer

Use the time God is giving us to seek His will and feel His presence.

Offline Formerly Once-Ler

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Re: Coronavirus, comprehensive and updates discussion 2
« Reply #732 on: April 07, 2020, 06:11:13 pm »
"One size fits all" is never a sound strategy.  The "current crisis" is not an exception. 

Consistency in an age of Americans taking fish tank cleaner as a medicine, is a sound policy.  It is too easy to misunderstand what necessary means to 350 million people.  Stay the f*ck home is clear to everyone.

Offline Smokin Joe

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Re: Coronavirus, comprehensive and updates discussion 2
« Reply #733 on: April 07, 2020, 06:14:29 pm »
Consistency in an age of Americans taking fish tank cleaner as a medicine, is a sound policy.  It is too easy to misunderstand what necessary means to 350 million people.  Stay the f*ck home is clear to everyone.
Y'see, if everyone else stays home, there is no one out there to infect me!
How God must weep at humans' folly! Stand fast! God knows what he is doing!
Seventeen Techniques for Truth Suppression

Of all tyrannies, a tyranny sincerely exercised for the good of its victims may be the most oppressive. It would be better to live under robber barons than under omnipotent moral busybodies. The robber baron's cruelty may sometimes sleep, his cupidity may at some point be satiated; but those who torment us for our own good will torment us without end for they do so with the approval of their own conscience.

C S Lewis

Offline Cyber Liberty

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Re: Coronavirus, comprehensive and updates discussion 2
« Reply #734 on: April 07, 2020, 06:23:33 pm »
Consistency in an age of Americans taking fish tank cleaner as a medicine, is a sound policy.  It is too easy to misunderstand what necessary means to 350 million people.  Stay the f*ck home is clear to everyone.

Which is exactly what the good people of my rural County were doing, until the Governor stuck his fat nose into our business.  It's one thing to do the right thing voluntarily, and it's another for the Governor of a State to step on the locals and force them to do what they already were doing.  It fosters more disrespect of Government.

I woke up the day after the Order from Lord God King Ducey and said "We were already doing it by choice!  Now I'm pissed we're doing it because we've been ordered to do it."  I notice it did nothing to bring toilet paper back to the stores.  it never does.
For unvaccinated, we are looking at a winter of severe illness and death — if you’re unvaccinated — for themselves, their families, and the hospitals they’ll soon overwhelm. Sloe Joe Biteme 12/16
I will NOT comply.
 
Castillo del Cyber Autonomous Zone ~~~~~>                          :dontfeed:

Offline musiclady

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Re: Coronavirus, comprehensive and updates discussion 2
« Reply #735 on: April 07, 2020, 06:31:51 pm »
Which is exactly what the good people of my rural County were doing, until the Governor stuck his fat nose into our business.  It's one thing to do the right thing voluntarily, and it's another for the Governor of a State to step on the locals and force them to do what they already were doing.  It fosters more disrespect of Government.

I woke up the day after the Order from Lord God King Ducey and said "We were already doing it by choice!  Now I'm pissed we're doing it because we've been ordered to do it."  I notice it did nothing to bring toilet paper back to the stores.  it never does.

Me ML found TP at Kroger today!  The world as we know it is saved!!  wink777
Character still matters.  It always matters.

I wear a mask as an exercise in liberty and love for others.  To see it as an infringement of liberty is to entirely miss the point.  Be kind.

"Sometimes I think the Church would be better off if we would call a moratorium on activity for about six weeks and just wait on God to see what He is waiting to do for us. That's what they did before Pentecost."   - A. W. Tozer

Use the time God is giving us to seek His will and feel His presence.

Offline Cyber Liberty

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Re: Coronavirus, comprehensive and updates discussion 2
« Reply #736 on: April 07, 2020, 06:33:41 pm »
Me ML found TP at Kroger today!  The world as we know it is saved!!  wink777

 :beer:

I'll be looking for it in about a month. 
For unvaccinated, we are looking at a winter of severe illness and death — if you’re unvaccinated — for themselves, their families, and the hospitals they’ll soon overwhelm. Sloe Joe Biteme 12/16
I will NOT comply.
 
Castillo del Cyber Autonomous Zone ~~~~~>                          :dontfeed:

Offline PeteS in CA

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Re: Coronavirus, comprehensive and updates discussion 2
« Reply #737 on: April 07, 2020, 06:37:18 pm »
Which is exactly what the good people of my rural County were doing, until the Governor stuck his fat nose into our business.  It's one thing to do the right thing voluntarily, and it's another for the Governor of a State to step on the locals and force them to do what they already were doing.  It fosters more disrespect of Government.
...

I've only heard of two Americans who took "fish tank cleaner", that couple in Mesa (= Maricopa County).
I am not and never have been a leftist.

If, as anti-Covid-vaxxers claim, https://www.poynter.org/fact-checking/2021/robert-f-kennedy-jr-said-the-covid-19-vaccine-is-the-deadliest-vaccine-ever-made-thats-not-true/ , https://gospelnewsnetwork.org/2021/11/23/covid-shots-are-the-deadliest-vaccines-in-medical-history/ , The Vaccine is deadly, where in the US have Pfizer and Moderna hidden the millions of bodies of those who died of "vaccine injury"?

Millions now living should have died. Anti-Covid-Vaxxer ghouls hardest hit.

Offline Cyber Liberty

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Re: Coronavirus, comprehensive and updates discussion 2
« Reply #738 on: April 07, 2020, 06:40:53 pm »
I've only heard of two Americans who took "fish tank cleaner", that couple in Mesa (= Maricopa County).

That is highly suspicious.  She took a lot less than he did, and they'd had marital problems for years.  That's a murder, IMHO.  There are murder mysteries where somebody poisoned themselves with "safe" levels of poison, to throw suspicion off themselves.  I really hope the Mesa detectives are digging into this angle, but I don't have a lot of faith they will.  I know them, having lived there.
For unvaccinated, we are looking at a winter of severe illness and death — if you’re unvaccinated — for themselves, their families, and the hospitals they’ll soon overwhelm. Sloe Joe Biteme 12/16
I will NOT comply.
 
Castillo del Cyber Autonomous Zone ~~~~~>                          :dontfeed:

Offline musiclady

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Re: Coronavirus, comprehensive and updates discussion 2
« Reply #739 on: April 07, 2020, 07:44:06 pm »
:beer:

I'll be looking for it in about a month.

You think it will travel in a Conestoga wagon??
Character still matters.  It always matters.

I wear a mask as an exercise in liberty and love for others.  To see it as an infringement of liberty is to entirely miss the point.  Be kind.

"Sometimes I think the Church would be better off if we would call a moratorium on activity for about six weeks and just wait on God to see what He is waiting to do for us. That's what they did before Pentecost."   - A. W. Tozer

Use the time God is giving us to seek His will and feel His presence.

Offline bigheadfred

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Re: Coronavirus, comprehensive and updates discussion 2
« Reply #740 on: April 07, 2020, 07:47:59 pm »
That is highly suspicious.  She took a lot less than he did, and they'd had marital problems for years.  That's a murder, IMHO.  There are murder mysteries where somebody poisoned themselves with "safe" levels of poison, to throw suspicion off themselves.  I really hope the Mesa detectives are digging into this angle, but I don't have a lot of faith they will. I know them, having lived there.

hahaha
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Offline bigheadfred

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Re: Coronavirus, comprehensive and updates discussion 2
« Reply #741 on: April 07, 2020, 07:53:24 pm »
You think it will travel in a Conestoga wagon??

All I know is when a roll of toilet paper costs more than a gallon of gasoline something ain't right.
She asked me name my foe then. I said the need within some men to fight and kill their brothers without thought of Love or God. Ken Hensley

Offline Cyber Liberty

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Re: Coronavirus, comprehensive and updates discussion 2
« Reply #742 on: April 07, 2020, 07:56:36 pm »
You think it will travel in a Conestoga wagon??

It would have to.  People are lining up at the trucks.
For unvaccinated, we are looking at a winter of severe illness and death — if you’re unvaccinated — for themselves, their families, and the hospitals they’ll soon overwhelm. Sloe Joe Biteme 12/16
I will NOT comply.
 
Castillo del Cyber Autonomous Zone ~~~~~>                          :dontfeed:

Offline txradioguy

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Re: Coronavirus, comprehensive and updates discussion 2
« Reply #743 on: April 07, 2020, 10:42:45 pm »
Brit Hume
@brithume
 Â· 3h
Well, Dr. Birx just said it. Anyone in U.S. who dies with Covid 19, regardless of what else may be wrong, is now being recorded as a Covid 19 death.



We will never know the exact numbers...only the exaggerated ones used to fit a particular Bill Gates "model" if this is allowed to stand has the official reporting procedure.
The libs/dems of today are the Quislings of former years. The cowards who would vote a fraud into office in exchange for handouts from the devil.

Here lies in honored glory an American soldier, known but to God

THE ESTABLISHMENT IS THE PROBLEM...NOT THE SOLUTION

Republicans Don't Need A Back Bench...They Need a BACKBONE!

Offline DB

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Re: Coronavirus, comprehensive and updates discussion 2
« Reply #744 on: April 07, 2020, 11:05:22 pm »
Brit Hume
@brithume
 Â· 3h
Well, Dr. Birx just said it. Anyone in U.S. who dies with Covid 19, regardless of what else may be wrong, is now being recorded as a Covid 19 death.



We will never know the exact numbers...only the exaggerated ones used to fit a particular Bill Gates "model" if this is allowed to stand has the official reporting procedure.

And how would you propose determining exactly what killed them? There is no practical way of determining it. Nothing about this is an exact science.

According to Google about 48.5% of the US population has heart disease. If one of those people that has had heart disease for years gets this this virus and dies two weeks later what are you going to attribute their death to? You could legitimately say both. But that person would likely still be alive if they hadn't got the virus. And could well have continued to live many years. Isn't it the thing that pushes you over the edge what "killed you"?


Offline txradioguy

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Re: Coronavirus, comprehensive and updates discussion 2
« Reply #745 on: April 07, 2020, 11:15:10 pm »
And how would you propose determining exactly what killed them? There is no practical way of determining it. Nothing about this is an exact science.

How about we don't claim a person died of corona virus when the actual ailment that killed them wasn't the virus was heart disease or diabetes or a stroke just because they tested positive for the virus doesn't mean that's what killed them.
The libs/dems of today are the Quislings of former years. The cowards who would vote a fraud into office in exchange for handouts from the devil.

Here lies in honored glory an American soldier, known but to God

THE ESTABLISHMENT IS THE PROBLEM...NOT THE SOLUTION

Republicans Don't Need A Back Bench...They Need a BACKBONE!

Offline DB

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Re: Coronavirus, comprehensive and updates discussion 2
« Reply #746 on: April 07, 2020, 11:23:44 pm »
How about we don't claim a person died of corona virus when the actual ailment that killed them wasn't the virus was heart disease or diabetes or a stroke just because they tested positive for the virus doesn't mean that's what killed them.

Again, how do you determine that? An autopsy for every one of them? It isn't that simple.

Offline catfish1957

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Re: Coronavirus, comprehensive and updates discussion 2
« Reply #747 on: April 07, 2020, 11:26:41 pm »
All I know is when a roll of toilet paper costs more than a gallon of gasoline something ain't right.


Tonight, I saw two Charmin Toilet Paper Commericals on TV.

Looked over at my wife, and told her that was the biggest waste of ad dollars in human history.

His hiney might be clean, but in two weeks, mine won't be.   :cool:
« Last Edit: April 07, 2020, 11:30:43 pm by catfish1957 »
I display the Confederate Battle Flag in honor of my great great great grandfathers who spilled blood at Wilson's Creek and Shiloh.  5 others served in the WBTS with honor too.

Offline libertybele

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Re: Coronavirus, comprehensive and updates discussion 2
« Reply #748 on: April 07, 2020, 11:27:25 pm »
Brit Hume
@brithume
 Â· 3h
Well, Dr. Birx just said it. Anyone in U.S. who dies with Covid 19, regardless of what else may be wrong, is now being recorded as a Covid 19 death.



We will never know the exact numbers...only the exaggerated ones used to fit a particular Bill Gates "model" if this is allowed to stand has the official reporting procedure.

Not sure I agree with the exaggeration -- People who are infected with COVID-19 with symptoms severe enough wind up in the hospital.  At that point, pre-existing conditions decrease the chances of survival because of the impact on already compromised health.  Someone who is on blood pressure medication and their blood pressure is under control and then becomes infected with COVID-19 isn't going to go to the hospital because of their blood pressure, they will go to the hospital because of the severity of the COVID-19 symptoms.  Those with pre-existing conditions make COVID-19 more difficult to treat as it has a more severe impact on someone's health that is already compromised.

I can only comment on the reporting in my state. The FL Department of Health lists the number of ALL reported COVID-19 cases and the number of cases that are hospitalized for each county and the number of deaths.  Using my county as an example we have 439 cases, 81 hospitalizations and 14 deaths.  The hospitalizations don't necessarily indicate that those patients are still in the hospital, only that, the figure given is for the number of patients in the county who have been hospitalized because of COVID-19.  So roughly 18% of patients who have the virus are or have been hospitalized.  The fatality rate is 3% for those patients who had confirmed COVID-19.

I don't find any data that would suggest that anyone dying, would automatically be recorded as a COVID-19 death; but logically if someone presents with COVID-19 and has a heart condition and dies from complications, I think it would be assumed that the cause of death would be COVID-19 and not the heart condition -- the virus exacerbated the heart condition, not the other way around. IOW the pre-existing condition is just that.  The virus is an additional negative element added to that condition.

Offline Bigun

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Re: Coronavirus, comprehensive and updates discussion 2
« Reply #749 on: April 07, 2020, 11:38:17 pm »
How about we look at the average number of deaths over the same time period (let's say December thru May) month by month for the previous five years and compare that to this year's numbers and see where we really are?
"I wish it need not have happened in my time," said Frodo.

"So do I," said Gandalf, "and so do all who live to see such times. But that is not for them to decide. All we have to decide is what to do with the time that is given us."
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