Author Topic: Coronavirus, comprehensive and updates discussion 2  (Read 179430 times)

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Offline Smokin Joe

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Re: Coronavirus, comprehensive and updates discussion 2
« Reply #700 on: April 07, 2020, 04:59:18 am »
Well then it is a terrible title for the study.  I wonder why the authors put their names on it?
Pulling that quote out of context doesn't let me see what the authors are saying when they  make the assertion made in the title.
The quote just shows the results the French had, and those are promising.
Those results were included in contrast to the results from elsewhere which may have supported the conclusion implied in the title. Nasal swabs would be dependent on not being reinfected as well, it is possible isolation issues or contamination could account for differing results. As always, "More study is required".
« Last Edit: April 07, 2020, 05:05:03 am by Smokin Joe »
How God must weep at humans' folly! Stand fast! God knows what he is doing!
Seventeen Techniques for Truth Suppression

Of all tyrannies, a tyranny sincerely exercised for the good of its victims may be the most oppressive. It would be better to live under robber barons than under omnipotent moral busybodies. The robber baron's cruelty may sometimes sleep, his cupidity may at some point be satiated; but those who torment us for our own good will torment us without end for they do so with the approval of their own conscience.

C S Lewis

Offline Polly Ticks

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Re: Coronavirus, comprehensive and updates discussion 2
« Reply #701 on: April 07, 2020, 02:33:27 pm »
Walsh: We Have Become A Police State And None Of Us Should Be Okay With That

Quote
Apologists for our newly established police state will tell me that states and localities have the authority to impose restrictions in an emergency. That is true, but the question of how far their authority actually goes is complicated, and in this case made even more complicated by the fact that these stay-at-home orders, in many cases, are based not on a current medical emergency in the respective state, but on models that forecast the possibility of an emergency in the future. For example, Minnesota is under a stay-at-home order despite having only 29 coronavirus deaths among a population of over 5 million. Perhaps the situation will get worse. Perhaps not. The point is that there is no current emergency in Minnesota or many of the other states currently under lockdown. There is, rather, a model that projects an emergency. And if projected emergencies can justify the effective nullification of the Bill of Rights, where is the limit? Haven’t we now granted the government the power to seize near-total control on the basis of any real or phantom threat?

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Offline TomSea

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Re: Coronavirus, comprehensive and updates discussion 2
« Reply #703 on: April 07, 2020, 03:36:28 pm »
Very popular twitter account for Conservatives but he says this and this is outright conspiratorial... and I don't buy it that Bill Gates is, in part, at least, behind this whole thing. That is said in some places, too tin foil for me and he loses credibility with me at least.

Quote
Educating Liberals@Education4Libs
Bill Gates & the Cabal thought they could push vaccinations & microchip technology on us after releasing COVID-19 as a bio-weapon.

But that power grab is about to fail.

Soon everybody will know that Big Pharma & the Swamp Rats in DC have been covering up cures for DECADES.



https://twitter.com/Education4Libs/status/1247547453936631808

Offline Polly Ticks

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Re: Coronavirus, comprehensive and updates discussion 2
« Reply #704 on: April 07, 2020, 03:41:42 pm »
A truly disturbing article.  Thanx for posting it @Polly Ticks

It is, isn't it.  I had heard some of the examples cited, but not all of them.  It's pretty crazy stuff.
Love is the most important thing in the world, but baseball is pretty good, too. -Yogi Berra

Offline txradioguy

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Re: Coronavirus, comprehensive and updates discussion 2
« Reply #705 on: April 07, 2020, 03:56:03 pm »
It is, isn't it.  I had heard some of the examples cited, but not all of them.  It's pretty crazy stuff.

Don't forget about the ankle monitors Louisville Mayor Greg Fischer is having put on self quarantine violators.
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Offline TomSea

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Re: Coronavirus, comprehensive and updates discussion 2
« Reply #706 on: April 07, 2020, 04:22:44 pm »
Quote
Senator Rand Paul@RandPaul
I appreciate all the best wishes I have received. I have been retested and I am negative. I have started volunteering at a local hospital to assist those in my community who are in need of medical help, including Coronavirus patients. Together we will overcome this!


https://twitter.com/RandPaul/status/1247552136000557059

Offline Formerly Once-Ler

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Re: Coronavirus, comprehensive and updates discussion 2
« Reply #707 on: April 07, 2020, 04:42:55 pm »
Senator Rand Paul@RandPaul
I appreciate all the best wishes I have received. I have been retested and I am negative. I have started volunteering at a local hospital to assist those in my community who are in need of medical help, including Coronavirus patients. Together we will overcome this!

Awesome.  Great to hear Sen Paul is healthy.  Inspiring and uplifting to know Dr Paul is also volunteering at a KY hospital.  999999999999

I'm not braggin' or nuthin' but I prayed for him.

Offline Smokin Joe

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Re: Coronavirus, comprehensive and updates discussion 2
« Reply #708 on: April 07, 2020, 07:13:47 pm »
Walsh: We Have Become A Police State And None Of Us Should Be Okay With That

Thanks for pointing that out. I contacted one such projection website, which showed (solid, not dashed line) 26 coronavirus fatalities in this state over the weekend. There have been 4, total, so far in this outbreak in ND.  The graph, if added up, shows a total of 29 fatalities, over 7 times the actual numbers. We'll see if they clean up the data.


In our State there are no mandatory travel restrictions, No stay at home order, and no restrictions on "nonessential" businesses.
People generally are following social distancing, aren't making unnecessary trips, restaurants and bars are closed.

A little common sense goes a long way.
« Last Edit: April 07, 2020, 07:20:20 pm by Smokin Joe »
How God must weep at humans' folly! Stand fast! God knows what he is doing!
Seventeen Techniques for Truth Suppression

Of all tyrannies, a tyranny sincerely exercised for the good of its victims may be the most oppressive. It would be better to live under robber barons than under omnipotent moral busybodies. The robber baron's cruelty may sometimes sleep, his cupidity may at some point be satiated; but those who torment us for our own good will torment us without end for they do so with the approval of their own conscience.

C S Lewis

Offline txradioguy

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Re: Coronavirus, comprehensive and updates discussion 2
« Reply #709 on: April 07, 2020, 07:18:21 pm »
Thanks for pointing that out. I contacted one such projection website, which showed (solid, not dashed line) 26 coronavirus fatalities in this state over the weekend. There have been 4, total, so far in this outbreak in ND.  The graph, if added up, shows a total of 29 fatalities, over 7 times the actual numbers. We'll see if they clean up the data.

The data will get cleaned up eventually. Long after things have gone back to normal and our short attention spans are focused on the next shiny object.

By then the damage will have been done.
The libs/dems of today are the Quislings of former years. The cowards who would vote a fraud into office in exchange for handouts from the devil.

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Offline Smokin Joe

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Re: Coronavirus, comprehensive and updates discussion 2
« Reply #710 on: April 07, 2020, 07:23:20 pm »
The data will get cleaned up eventually. Long after things have gone back to normal and our short attention spans are focused on the next shiny object.

By then the damage will have been done.
If then, but I am waiting to see if I get a reply.
There's a lot to keep track of on a website that covers all 50 states and the country as a whole, plus foreign countries, and I am hoping it is an honest mistake and not inflating numbers some place where no one might look. I sent them links to my sources (Bismarck Tribune and ND State Health Department Coronavirus website) to help them avoid such errors in the future.
« Last Edit: April 07, 2020, 07:24:53 pm by Smokin Joe »
How God must weep at humans' folly! Stand fast! God knows what he is doing!
Seventeen Techniques for Truth Suppression

Of all tyrannies, a tyranny sincerely exercised for the good of its victims may be the most oppressive. It would be better to live under robber barons than under omnipotent moral busybodies. The robber baron's cruelty may sometimes sleep, his cupidity may at some point be satiated; but those who torment us for our own good will torment us without end for they do so with the approval of their own conscience.

C S Lewis

Offline DB

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Re: Coronavirus, comprehensive and updates discussion 2
« Reply #711 on: April 07, 2020, 07:28:12 pm »
In our State there are no mandatory travel restrictions, No stay at home order, and no restrictions on "nonessential" businesses.
People generally are following social distancing, aren't making unnecessary trips, restaurants and bars are closed.

A little common sense goes a long way.
That's why I think a substantial amount of economic destruction would have happened regardless of whether government mandated "nonessential" businesses close or not. People simply would have done it anyway. So I can't lay all the blame for this destruction on government alone. We just have to work our way through this.

Offline Smokin Joe

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Re: Coronavirus, comprehensive and updates discussion 2
« Reply #712 on: April 07, 2020, 07:34:34 pm »
That's why I think a substantial amount of economic destruction would have happened regardless of whether government mandated "nonessential" businesses close or not. People simply would have done it anyway. So I can't lay all the blame for this destruction on government alone. We just have to work our way through this.
It's one thing when people slow down on their own, that's voluntary, and those businesses find ways to adapt.

But who decides what is "essential" when the four kids staying at home run out of blue crayons?

It is another thing entirely when Government decrees, arbitrarily, what is an essential or nonessential business, and punishes people for keeping their doors open.

It's all back to letting the marketplace decide, and letting people, if they will, responsibly choose their risk.

Yes, people would have limited contact. Might not have gone to a cafe or restaurant if it seemed crowded, and likely would have avoided situations which would involve close contact--and that would have had an economic effect. But shutting down would have been up to the owner, to weigh the cost of keeping the doors open vs the revenue generated and any risk to customers.
How God must weep at humans' folly! Stand fast! God knows what he is doing!
Seventeen Techniques for Truth Suppression

Of all tyrannies, a tyranny sincerely exercised for the good of its victims may be the most oppressive. It would be better to live under robber barons than under omnipotent moral busybodies. The robber baron's cruelty may sometimes sleep, his cupidity may at some point be satiated; but those who torment us for our own good will torment us without end for they do so with the approval of their own conscience.

C S Lewis

Offline DB

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Re: Coronavirus, comprehensive and updates discussion 2
« Reply #713 on: April 07, 2020, 07:47:19 pm »
It's one thing when people slow down on their own, that's voluntary, and those businesses find ways to adapt.

But who decides what is "essential" when the four kids staying at home run out of blue crayons?

It is another thing entirely when Government decrees, arbitrarily, what is an essential or nonessential business, and punishes people for keeping their doors open.

It's all back to letting the marketplace decide, and letting people, if they will, responsibly choose their risk.

Yes, people would have limited contact. Might not have gone to a cafe or restaurant if it seemed crowded, and likely would have avoided situations which would involve close contact--and that would have had an economic effect. But shutting down would have been up to the owner, to weigh the cost of keeping the doors open vs the revenue generated and any risk to customers.

I'm not disagreeing with you. My only argument is the overall economic destruction was coming either way. Here in Arizona lots of places closed in the Phoenix metro area prior to the governor ordering them to. Liability etc.

Offline EdinVA

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Re: Coronavirus, comprehensive and updates discussion 2
« Reply #715 on: April 07, 2020, 07:55:07 pm »
I'm not disagreeing with you. My only argument is the overall economic destruction was coming either way. Here in Arizona lots of places closed in the Phoenix metro area prior to the governor ordering them to. Liability etc.

I think Ducey's action, done at the behest of big-city Mayors, is stupid as applied here in Mohave County.  My city has exactly one COVID patient.  One.  But all restaurants are closed.
For unvaccinated, we are looking at a winter of severe illness and death — if you’re unvaccinated — for themselves, their families, and the hospitals they’ll soon overwhelm. Sloe Joe Biteme 12/16
I will NOT comply.
 
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Offline Hoodat

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Re: Coronavirus, comprehensive and updates discussion 2
« Reply #716 on: April 07, 2020, 08:31:33 pm »
04-07-2020 | 20:14 GMT

REGIONRecov:Death     Cases:Recov
Global (excluding China & US)  3.090 ↑  4.663 ↓
United States  1.712 ↓ 18.218 ↓
China 23.166 ↑  1.059 ↓

US 14-day Recovery Deficit - 18,838

https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/



New stat added - US 14-day Recovery Deficit = Number of cases 14 days ago minus (total reported deaths and recoveries today).  This is the absolute minimum number of people diagnosed 14 days ago who have neither been listed as dead or recovered.
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Offline musiclady

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Re: Coronavirus, comprehensive and updates discussion 2
« Reply #717 on: April 07, 2020, 08:44:40 pm »
I think Ducey's action, done at the behest of big-city Mayors, is stupid as applied here in Mohave County.  My city has exactly one COVID patient.  One.  But all restaurants are closed.

Gov. DeWine and Mayor Ginther of Columbus shut down the Arnold Classic (Schwartzenegger fitness gathering), March 4, before the first cases were diagnosed on March 9.  There were none here, but epimiologists knew the virus had been seeded in Ohio.

Because of that, 250,000 people from around the world did NOT gather together in the State Capitol, and because of that and social distancing orders - schools, bars, restaurants closed - put in place earlier than any other state, the number of cases in Ohio is significantly lower......... less than 5,000........ rather than any of the projected models.

It may be stupid in Mojave County because of lack of population density (though I doubt it), but those orders are saving thousands of people from suffering and sometimes dying.

Think of it as evacuating before a hurricane, and it makes more sense.  This is a very real storm (naysayers claims notwithstanding), and getting people out of danger is the responsible thing to do.  Because Ohio's leaders thought everything through early on, though I am in the 7th most populous state in the country, I am much, much safer than I would have been without the measures they put in place early on (think Michigan).

This is not a "police state."  This is shelter in a time of storm.  Just like in 1918, when the threat is abating, the rules will be relaxed, and no one's freedom will suffer in the long term, but maybe their lives will be saved.  (In leftist run states, they haven't had freedom before this, so what the goofy Governors are doing there is a non-starter in terms of debate.  They're totalitarian states to begin with).

The closing of the Arnold Classic was a terribly difficult decision, but wise people made that call, and we are safer for it.
Character still matters.  It always matters.

I wear a mask as an exercise in liberty and love for others.  To see it as an infringement of liberty is to entirely miss the point.  Be kind.

"Sometimes I think the Church would be better off if we would call a moratorium on activity for about six weeks and just wait on God to see what He is waiting to do for us. That's what they did before Pentecost."   - A. W. Tozer

Use the time God is giving us to seek His will and feel His presence.

Offline txradioguy

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Re: Coronavirus, comprehensive and updates discussion 2
« Reply #718 on: April 07, 2020, 09:24:17 pm »
Quote
This is not a "police state."  This is shelter in a time of storm.  Just like in 1918, when the threat is abating, the rules will be relaxed, and no one's freedom will suffer in the long term, but maybe their lives will be saved.  (In leftist run states, they haven't had freedom before this, so what the goofy Governors are doing there is a non-starter in terms of debate.  They're totalitarian states to begin with).
 

If you’re staying home because it’s been said it’s mandatory and you’re not doing it voluntarily and you’re not free to leave your house and conduct your daily normal activities it’s a police state.

Like 1918 huh?  So did you behave the same way and advocate for the same things happening right now in 2009?  If you didn’t then why not? I mean the H1N1 pandemic was worse than this.

Hell this years flu season has killed more Americans so far. Would you be advocating for the entire shut down of the country next year during flu season?

The libs/dems of today are the Quislings of former years. The cowards who would vote a fraud into office in exchange for handouts from the devil.

Here lies in honored glory an American soldier, known but to God

THE ESTABLISHMENT IS THE PROBLEM...NOT THE SOLUTION

Republicans Don't Need A Back Bench...They Need a BACKBONE!

Offline TomSea

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Re: Coronavirus, comprehensive and updates discussion 2
« Reply #719 on: April 07, 2020, 09:44:30 pm »
I've got to say, I know what that "Arnold Classic" mentioned above is noteworthy, I use to read "muscle magazines" at one time.

Well, whether those bodybuilders (bbs) are clean or not is not the issue here, it was some sort of big sports festivals.



And read about it here:   https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Arnold_Sports_Festival

There would always be ads in Muscle and Fitness, which I think is one of the leading magazines though, there are a number.

All of that weight lifting, etc. is sort of interesting but I think most of those guys "juice".... except there is even a "natural bodybuilders" magazine out there... so some try to make a fair go of it and there are contests for them too, they probably get tested to make sure they are clean,.
"

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Re: Coronavirus, comprehensive and updates discussion 2
« Reply #720 on: April 07, 2020, 09:50:05 pm »
Gov. DeWine and Mayor Ginther of Columbus shut down the Arnold Classic (Schwartzenegger fitness gathering), March 4, before the first cases were diagnosed on March 9.  There were none here, but epimiologists knew the virus had been seeded in Ohio.

Because of that, 250,000 people from around the world did NOT gather together in the State Capitol, and because of that and social distancing orders - schools, bars, restaurants closed - put in place earlier than any other state, the number of cases in Ohio is significantly lower......... less than 5,000........ rather than any of the projected models.

It may be stupid in Mojave County because of lack of population density (though I doubt it), but those orders are saving thousands of people from suffering and sometimes dying.

Think of it as evacuating before a hurricane, and it makes more sense.  This is a very real storm (naysayers claims notwithstanding), and getting people out of danger is the responsible thing to do.  Because Ohio's leaders thought everything through early on, though I am in the 7th most populous state in the country, I am much, much safer than I would have been without the measures they put in place early on (think Michigan).

This is not a "police state."  This is shelter in a time of storm.  Just like in 1918, when the threat is abating, the rules will be relaxed, and no one's freedom will suffer in the long term, but maybe their lives will be saved.  (In leftist run states, they haven't had freedom before this, so what the goofy Governors are doing there is a non-starter in terms of debate.  They're totalitarian states to begin with).

The closing of the Arnold Classic was a terribly difficult decision, but wise people made that call, and we are safer for it.

"One size fits all" is never a sound strategy.  The "current crisis" is not an exception.  People will simply refuse to comply if they think it's stupid.

What's good for The Peoples Republic of Maricopa and Pima is not good for Mohave, no matter how one chooses to slice it.  The Governor did this because the mayors of Phoenix and Tucson demanded it for everybody else, when nothing was stopping them from doing it to their own jurisdictions.  Classic leftist thinking:  Punish everybody.  If he wasn't term-limited, he'd be out of a job next election.
For unvaccinated, we are looking at a winter of severe illness and death — if you’re unvaccinated — for themselves, their families, and the hospitals they’ll soon overwhelm. Sloe Joe Biteme 12/16
I will NOT comply.
 
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Offline musiclady

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Re: Coronavirus, comprehensive and updates discussion 2
« Reply #721 on: April 07, 2020, 09:51:39 pm »
If you’re staying home because it’s been said it’s mandatory and you’re not doing it voluntarily and you’re not free to leave your house and conduct your daily normal activities it’s a police state.

Like 1918 huh?  So did you behave the same way and advocate for the same things happening right now in 2009?  If you didn’t then why not? I mean the H1N1 pandemic was worse than this.

Hell this years flu season has killed more Americans so far. Would you be advocating for the entire shut down of the country next year during flu season?

Get some new arguments, txradioguy.

This is NOT the flu  It is at least twice as contagious as the flu.   The only comparable pandemic was in 1918.  The cities that mandated social distancing had a significantly smaller death toll than the ones who let things go.

St. Louis is the example given of one of the smart cities in 1918.  Now, I've been to St. Louis a whole mess of times (daughter lives there),  and, let me tell you........ it wasn't a police state, and it won't be a police state after the greatest part of this threat is over in a matter of weeks.

Fear not, my friend.  Life will return to the way you want it to be, with no further freedoms eroded in Texas or Ohio because we had to stay home for a little while.

Stay safe.................. whether you want to or not.  You're an asset to this forum, and I wouldn't want you getting sick from this miserable virus, so take care of yourself.

That's what I'm doing, and I'm feeling good about it.  :beer:

Character still matters.  It always matters.

I wear a mask as an exercise in liberty and love for others.  To see it as an infringement of liberty is to entirely miss the point.  Be kind.

"Sometimes I think the Church would be better off if we would call a moratorium on activity for about six weeks and just wait on God to see what He is waiting to do for us. That's what they did before Pentecost."   - A. W. Tozer

Use the time God is giving us to seek His will and feel His presence.

Offline musiclady

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Re: Coronavirus, comprehensive and updates discussion 2
« Reply #722 on: April 07, 2020, 09:54:37 pm »
"One size fits all" is never a sound strategy.  The "current crisis" is not an exception.  People will simply refuse to comply if they think it's stupid.

What's good for The Peoples Republic of Maricopa and Pima is not good for Mohave, no matter how one chooses to slice it.  The Governor did this because the mayors of Phoenix and Tucson demanded it for everybody else, when nothing was stopping them from doing it to their own jurisdictions.  Classic leftist thinking:  Punish everybody.  If he wasn't term-limited, he'd be out of a job next election.

I don't know what kind of mayor your guy is (is he a leftist?), so I have no idea what his motivation was.  He had the freedom to buck the trend if he wanted to.  His choice was his choice, and if it was stupid, he'll pay the political price for it.

That's the way things work in America.

DeWine will be reelected in a landslide.
Character still matters.  It always matters.

I wear a mask as an exercise in liberty and love for others.  To see it as an infringement of liberty is to entirely miss the point.  Be kind.

"Sometimes I think the Church would be better off if we would call a moratorium on activity for about six weeks and just wait on God to see what He is waiting to do for us. That's what they did before Pentecost."   - A. W. Tozer

Use the time God is giving us to seek His will and feel His presence.

Offline DB

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Re: Coronavirus, comprehensive and updates discussion 2
« Reply #723 on: April 07, 2020, 09:55:09 pm »
"One size fits all" is never a sound strategy.  The "current crisis" is not an exception.  People will simply refuse to comply if they think it's stupid.

What's good for The Peoples Republic of Maricopa and Pima is not good for Mohave, no matter how one chooses to slice it.  The Governor did this because the mayors of Phoenix and Tucson demanded it for everybody else, when nothing was stopping them from doing it to their own jurisdictions.  Classic leftist thinking:  Punish everybody.  If he wasn't term-limited, he'd be out of a job next election.

I agree. If the local hospitals are not overloaded then there's little need for heavy restrictions. The local medical resource utilization ought to drive whatever the local directives need to be to keep things below triage levels. Much lower than triage levels only extends the down time without much long term benefit.

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Re: Coronavirus, comprehensive and updates discussion 2
« Reply #724 on: April 07, 2020, 09:55:22 pm »
Get some new arguments, txradioguy.

This is NOT the flu  It is at least twice as contagious as the flu.   The only comparable pandemic was in 1918.  The cities that mandated social distancing had a significantly smaller death toll than the ones who let things go.

St. Louis is the example given of one of the smart cities in 1918.  Now, I've been to St. Louis a whole mess of times (daughter lives there),  and, let me tell you........ it wasn't a police state, and it won't be a police state after the greatest part of this threat is over in a matter of weeks.

Fear not, my friend.  Life will return to the way you want it to be, with no further freedoms eroded in Texas or Ohio because we had to stay home for a little while.

Stay safe.................. whether you want to or not.  You're an asset to this forum, and I wouldn't want you getting sick from this miserable virus, so take care of yourself.

That's what I'm doing, and I'm feeling good about it.  :beer:

For the record, I don't think we're a "police state" yet.  Ask me again on 5/1....
For unvaccinated, we are looking at a winter of severe illness and death — if you’re unvaccinated — for themselves, their families, and the hospitals they’ll soon overwhelm. Sloe Joe Biteme 12/16
I will NOT comply.
 
Castillo del Cyber Autonomous Zone ~~~~~>                          :dontfeed: