Poll

Is the economic ruin of millions worth it to save the lives of thousands?  

Yes
4 (22.2%)
No
14 (77.8%)

Total Members Voted: 18

Author Topic: Here's the bottom line  (Read 2860 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Offline jafo2010

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 5,546
  • Dems-greatest existential threat to USA republic!
Re: Here's the bottom line
« Reply #25 on: March 20, 2020, 10:13:18 pm »
In the president's own words, "this is war".  He is right.

And if Gen George Patton was asked about corona virus, he would say we will lose good people in this battle, but we are going to win the war.  We're going to kick the sh*t out of this (*$#@.  There are acceptable casualties in any war.  We have to get past the notion that if one person dies it is too many.

This nation cannot afford to be shut down more than two weeks.  If that happens, we are destroying the lives of the living.  Being practical, we are a nation of 330 million.  The nation can sustain loses far beyond what we are willing to consider.  We need to start that consideration.  210 are dead.  We lose more people by a factor of X times on the road daily versus the daily mortality rate of this virus.

THE NUMBER OF PEOPLE THAT COMMIT SUICIDE FROM DESPAIR BECAUSE THEIR LIFE HAS BEEN DESTROYED WILL BE FAR GREATER THAN THE VIRUS IF WE STAY ON THE PATH WE ARE ON.

The limiting factor is the healthcare system.  They are not prepared to handle the number of people who would be critical with this virus, so they are spreading the impact over time.  I understand that.

In 2014, William Frieden, Head of the CDC predicted 1.2 million deaths with the Ebola outbreak in Africa.  From 2014 to 2016, Africa lost 11,323.  Simply stated, these medical pukes cannot be trusted.  Their methods of calculating casualties are clearly deficient.  The CDC is now calculating 200,000 to 1.7 million deaths in the USA from corona.  I say MAJOR B*LLSH*T!!!  Again, these folks are creating a huge panic that is not necessary.

My wife works for the CDC.  She deals with three bacteria that do not have common names that kill 8,000 per year in the USA.  And guess what, you never heard of these bacteria, and I am not talking MRSA.  Her bacteria are resistant to anti-biotics, you get it, you have a high probability of dying.  And the media says nothing.

And for three years, I have listened to my wife at the dinner table complain about how EVERYONE at the CDC hates Trump.  There is no doubt in my mind these people would pull some stunts to destroy Trump.  And that includes the NIH and FDA.  These people want Trump gone. 

THIS VIRUS IS NOT GOING AWAY.  THE ADVICE TRUMP IS RECEIVING IS INTENDED TO REMOVE HIM FROM OFFICE.  I AM 100% CONVINCED OF THIS.

I do not want to see any more people die, but we are destroying our nation with 210 dead.  This is insanity.  And the media are criminal in their behavior.  In the same period of time, we have had thousands dead from the flu.  In the same period of time, we have lost 2,000 people from the bacteria my wife works on that YOU NEVER HEARD OF!!!

"What do you say to the American people that are scared?"  Some maggot lying f**kstick of a reporter just asked this question to Trump.  Trump is right to take a position of optimism, to encourage the people to have faith and believe we will defeat this nasty virus from China.  YES, the CHINA VIRUS.  THIS IS THE THIRD GLOBAL INFECTION THAT HAS ORIGINATED FROM CHINA IN ROUGHLY 20 YEARS.  The time has come to isolate away from China.  They are not an honest nation of the world.  They are devious and killing people around the globe, and the time has come for them to pay for their criminal behavior.

My wife worked on the Ebola outbreak in Africa for two years.  Hard as it may be to comprehend, even medical workers there did not fully appreciate the NECESSITY of washing hands.  The CDC developed a training program that covered all the reasons to wash your hands properly and demonstrated the proper procedures to follow in Africa for the people. 

Here in the USA, we have been inundated on proper procedures, ie. hand washing, social distancing, etc.  Restaurants do not need to reduce tables because of this virus(heard this suggested today), but we could make it mandatory everyone use hand sanitizer upon entry and exit of restaurants and all establishments.  So if any of us enter a business establishment, and go to press the button for the elevator to go up, we have used hand sanitizer upon entry into the building.

Trump needs to get away from these doctors who would gladly make this a career event, this virus.  Oh yes, these medical folks would gladly make this a decade long effort if you let them.  Doctors in the USA got out of the business of cure and have focused on making everything maintenance oriented.  How do I keep this patient for the rest of their life as a patient paying me money.  That is American medicine today.

Are any of you aware that prior to 1914 when the AMA gained control/influence of Congress, homeopathic medicine was the prevalent form of medicine in the USA?  They had as many of their schools as the AMA type physicians did.  When they gained Congressional influence, they drove the homeopaths out of business.  There is a reason the homeopaths are coming back!!!

And another point important to know, nations across the world are watching what we do here in the USA and they are following our lead....INCLUDING RUSSIA, WHO IS IMPLEMENTING STEP BY STEP EVERYTHING WE ARE DOING, LIKE THEY ARE A KID MIMICKING OUR ACTIONS.

One last thought.  I have been with my wife for 20 years.  When I enter the house, before I touch anything, and this was policy for the past 20 years, I MUST wash my hands thoroughly like I am going into an operating room to conduct surgery.  I am expected to take my shoes off entering the house.  No shoes are worn inside the house.  EVER!!!  If I had to guess, I have been washing my hands 30-40 times a day since married. 

Moving forward, wash your hands thoroughly, keep your distance from others, try not to touch anything that is commonly touched, i.e door knobs, etc.  I use my sleeve to cover a door knob, and did this years before Corona.  Use disinfectants on surfaces, door knobs daily within your home.  Keep your hands away from your face.  The average person touches their face 2-3 times a minute.  Just end that routine now.  Wash your hands when you go to the bathroom.  I can't tell you how many men go into a public bathroom, do their business and walk out not washing their hands.  More than 50%!!!

Study was done a few years ago, and I believe 27% of doctors wash their hands going patient to patient.  Nurses were better with like 45% if I recall.  If you or someone you know is in the hospital, tell them not to permit anyone to approach them without washing their hands right in the room.  And anyone going to a hospital, when you get home, literally wash your hands like you are going into surgery.  Why?  All three of the bacteria my wife works on tend to live and thrive in hospitals.  They are very deadly.

Time will play its role too.  The panic will subside with time.


Offline Smokin Joe

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 56,588
  • I was a "conspiracy theorist". Now I'm just right.
Re: Here's the bottom line
« Reply #26 on: March 20, 2020, 10:31:24 pm »
Same here.  I surprised there isn't more chatter/concern over this aspect of things.


Oh, that is starting up. The concern is there, ammo and guns are flying off the shelves. But some people aren't paying attention past their next meal or roll of TP. I have been out every day, five stores, and have not seen any toilet paper in any of them. Pretty soon, social distancing (and standing up wind from the 'have nots') will be instinctive..
How God must weep at humans' folly! Stand fast! God knows what he is doing!
Seventeen Techniques for Truth Suppression

Of all tyrannies, a tyranny sincerely exercised for the good of its victims may be the most oppressive. It would be better to live under robber barons than under omnipotent moral busybodies. The robber baron's cruelty may sometimes sleep, his cupidity may at some point be satiated; but those who torment us for our own good will torment us without end for they do so with the approval of their own conscience.

C S Lewis

Offline DB

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 13,173
Re: Here's the bottom line
« Reply #27 on: March 20, 2020, 11:05:08 pm »
If you run out of TP there's always the shower... A walk in upside down bidet so to speak...

Offline sneakypete

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 52,958
  • Twitter is for Twits
Re: Here's the bottom line
« Reply #28 on: March 21, 2020, 12:02:18 am »
Same here.  I surprised there isn't more chatter/concern over this aspect of things.



@Polly Ticks

Everybody is too busy jumping through their asses trying to find another truck load of toilet paper to buy.

I saw the ultimate stupidity today when I hauled trash to the local dump. There was a 30's-something couple sitting in a new hatchback that had just dropped a plastic bag of household trash in the dumpster,and there they both sat inside their new car,washing their hands with some sort of anti-bacterial cream. Rubbing for all they were worth,too. They seemed to get pissed when I beeped the horn and hollered at them to get the hell out of the way so I could dump my trash bag.
Anyone who isn't paranoid in 2021 just isn't thinking clearly!

Offline skeeter

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 26,717
  • Gender: Male
Re: Here's the bottom line
« Reply #29 on: March 21, 2020, 12:04:50 am »
If you run out of TP there's always the shower... A walk in upside down bidet so to speak...

Maybe that'll work for you but I haven't been able to do a handstand for years.

Offline sneakypete

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 52,958
  • Twitter is for Twits
Re: Here's the bottom line
« Reply #30 on: March 21, 2020, 12:06:06 am »
Same here.  I surprised there isn't more chatter/concern over this aspect of things.



@skeeter   @Pollyticks

The economic AND the political damage to our system are far more dangerous than this virus,but the typical 'murikan of today doesn't give a damn about anything other than "Me,me,ME,DAMMIT!"

Thus the panic buying and hoarding.

Anyone who isn't paranoid in 2021 just isn't thinking clearly!

Offline TomSea

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 40,432
  • Gender: Male
  • All deserve a trial if accused
Re: Here's the bottom line
« Reply #31 on: March 21, 2020, 12:10:48 am »
Yes and if you have proof that this proposed other way won't be costly as well, please post it.

Your way might see the whole health system crash down and maybe other significant parts of the economy, it's no silver bullet either. I saw long lines at the bank today so, it's not something to take lightly, I gather that.

Offline libertybele

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 57,076
  • Gender: Female
Re: Here's the bottom line
« Reply #32 on: March 21, 2020, 12:33:42 am »
Yes and if you have proof that this proposed other way won't be costly as well, please post it.

Your way might see the whole health system crash down and maybe other significant parts of the economy, it's no silver bullet either. I saw long lines at the bank today so, it's not something to take lightly, I gather that.

When banks lock their doors and only allow a limited transaction at the drive through, it is definitely not a good sign.  Lots of people do on-line banking and pay their bills and make purchases with their debit or credit cards at the stores, so when people are taking their cash out of banks, that says something, especially since accounts are supposed to be FDIC insured.

I was made aware today, that the Feds decided Monday that banks did NOT have to keep cash on hand to cover their assets.  They are allowed to have a limited cash reserve. 
Romans 12:16-21

Live in harmony with one another; do not be haughty, but associate with the lowly, do not claim to be wiser than you are.  Do not repay anyone evil for evil, but take thought for what is noble in the sight of all.  If it is possible, so far as it depends on you, live peaceably with all…do not be overcome by evil, but overcome evil with good.

Offline skeeter

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 26,717
  • Gender: Male
Re: Here's the bottom line
« Reply #33 on: March 21, 2020, 12:35:28 am »
@skeeter   @Pollyticks

The economic AND the political damage to our system are far more dangerous than this virus,but the typical 'murikan of today doesn't give a damn about anything other than "Me,me,ME,DAMMIT!"

Thus the panic buying and hoarding.

If the US suffers lasting economic damage the entire world suffers.

Offline Smokin Joe

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 56,588
  • I was a "conspiracy theorist". Now I'm just right.
Re: Here's the bottom line
« Reply #34 on: March 21, 2020, 12:37:50 am »
If the US suffers lasting economic damage the entire world suffers.
What we call the Great Depression wound it's way around the world, too. That does not prevent another.
How God must weep at humans' folly! Stand fast! God knows what he is doing!
Seventeen Techniques for Truth Suppression

Of all tyrannies, a tyranny sincerely exercised for the good of its victims may be the most oppressive. It would be better to live under robber barons than under omnipotent moral busybodies. The robber baron's cruelty may sometimes sleep, his cupidity may at some point be satiated; but those who torment us for our own good will torment us without end for they do so with the approval of their own conscience.

C S Lewis

Offline DB

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 13,173
Re: Here's the bottom line
« Reply #35 on: March 21, 2020, 02:08:14 am »
Maybe that'll work for you but I haven't been able to do a handstand for years.

That's probably a good thing... The flow direction is all wrong...

Offline skeeter

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 26,717
  • Gender: Male
Re: Here's the bottom line
« Reply #36 on: March 21, 2020, 02:12:39 am »
That's probably a good thing... The flow direction is all wrong...
:3:

Offline sneakypete

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 52,958
  • Twitter is for Twits
Re: Here's the bottom line
« Reply #37 on: March 21, 2020, 04:06:54 am »
If the US suffers lasting economic damage the entire world suffers.

@skeeter

Make no mistake about this,the US is just ONE slice of the cake they are baking. IMHO,this is nothing less than a serious international movement to kick "World Wide Government,Inc" into gear,and any nation that isn't willing to play is going to be hit with a total economic aid embargo as well as any say into what happens.
Anyone who isn't paranoid in 2021 just isn't thinking clearly!

Offline Absalom

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 4,375
Re: Here's the bottom line
« Reply #38 on: March 21, 2020, 05:03:45 am »
Which is more vital in order for Mankind to endure?
Material Betterment or spiritual salvation?
« Last Edit: March 21, 2020, 07:21:49 pm by Absalom »

Offline Smokin Joe

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 56,588
  • I was a "conspiracy theorist". Now I'm just right.
Re: Here's the bottom line
« Reply #39 on: March 21, 2020, 05:43:12 am »
Which is more vital for Mankind to endure?
Material Betterment or spiritual salvation?
False dichotomy, but here goes:

The two walk hand in hand.
 
Without enough economy to eat (not the ostentatious wealth of the uber rich, who often patronize the arts, but enough), the final answer to spiritual salvation ever hovers close.
Both are moot without survival.

As the 20th century has especially taught us abject poverty=>unrest=>violence in the streets=>mob rule, burning the books, and the destruction of both material goods and, with them, often the rejection and/or destruction of the writings of those who have pursued spiritual salvation.
 
Those writings owe their survival to a small minority of faithful who squirreled them away, often undiscovered for centuries.
Mankind, or at least the civilized version, seems subject to such occasional social paroxysms, and either those or outside conquest of the corrupt (or a combination) have marked most major cultural transitions in the last several thousand years. 
Some of the writings of those quests for salvation survived, some did not.

The Dead Sea Scrolls
The libraries of Alexandria. (lost)
The Burning of Rome (?)
The sacking of the Catholic Monastaries in England (what was lost?)
The destruction of Mayan Codices (more lost)
The French Revolution
The Oktober Revolution
etc. etc. etc.
I do not include the American Revolution, which unusually created a secular government and philosophy with deep roots in the spiritual.
But humankind is ready to burn the books again, just waiting for an excuse, and it has been primed for such since learning to live under the penumbra of impending apocalypse during the beginning of the Nuclear Age.
The whole while, there remain those in the wings who will not let a crisis go to waste, even if they have to create it.

Ultimately, their material gain will be moot, as will everyone's great and small.

But despite this false dichotomy of one or the other, can we not have both, some reasonable economy and with it the means to be benevolent?  Even the Widow had a mite.
How God must weep at humans' folly! Stand fast! God knows what he is doing!
Seventeen Techniques for Truth Suppression

Of all tyrannies, a tyranny sincerely exercised for the good of its victims may be the most oppressive. It would be better to live under robber barons than under omnipotent moral busybodies. The robber baron's cruelty may sometimes sleep, his cupidity may at some point be satiated; but those who torment us for our own good will torment us without end for they do so with the approval of their own conscience.

C S Lewis

Offline Absalom

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 4,375
Re: Here's the bottom line
« Reply #40 on: March 21, 2020, 09:02:51 pm »
False dichotomy, but here goes:
The two walk hand in hand.
 Without enough economy to eat (not the ostentatious wealth of the uber rich, who often patronize the arts, but enough), the final answer to spiritual salvation ever hovers close.
Both are moot without survival.
As the 20th century has especially taught us abject poverty=>unrest=>violence in the streets=>mob rule, burning the books, and the destruction of both material goods and, with them, often the rejection and/or destruction of the writings of those who have pursued spiritual salvation.
 Those writings owe their survival to a small minority of faithful who squirreled them away, often undiscovered for centuries.
Mankind, or at least the civilized version, seems subject to such occasional social paroxysms, and either those or outside conquest of the corrupt (or a combination) have marked most major cultural transitions in the last several thousand years. 
Some of the writings of those quests for salvation survived, some did not.
The Dead Sea Scrolls
The libraries of Alexandria. (lost)
The Burning of Rome (?)
The sacking of the Catholic Monastaries in England (what was lost?)
The destruction of Mayan Codices (more lost)
The French Revolution
The Oktober Revolution
etc. etc. etc.
I do not include the American Revolution, which unusually created a secular government and philosophy with deep roots in the spiritual.
But humankind is ready to burn the books again, just waiting for an excuse, and it has been primed for such since learning to live under the penumbra of impending apocalypse during the beginning of the Nuclear Age.
The whole while, there remain those in the wings who will not let a crisis go to waste, even if they have to create it.
Ultimately, their material gain will be moot, as will everyone's great and small.
But despite this false dichotomy of one or the other, can we not have both, some reasonable economy and with it the means to be benevolent?  Even the Widow had a mite.
-----------------------------
As an opinion forum all are entitled yet respectfully but emphatically disagree.
Within all of Creation, Man stands apart for a simple but unique reason,
the existence of a Soul, his source of creativity, individualism and most critically,
spiritualism, which Plato fully understood.
From the Garden of Eden till the French Enlightenment, spanning tens of thousands
of years, the latter trait defined Man more than any other, exemplified by the Art
he created be it in Architecture, in Literature as Drama, Poetry, the Novel,
in Painting, in Music; to name just a few.
Then the Enlightenment, buttressed by the birth of Capitalism, changed Man's
focus asserting that material betterment was Man's higher calling.
Man is certainly not better off for that dynamic change, as his behavior since
the French Revolution affirms.
One has only to glance at the self labeled "Art" of Modern Man to grasp the
impact of the decline of the spiritual on the individual and on life.

Online roamer_1

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 43,662
Re: Here's the bottom line
« Reply #41 on: March 21, 2020, 09:14:30 pm »
-----------------------------
As an opinion forum all are entitled yet respectfully but emphatically disagree.
Within all of Creation, Man stands apart for a simple but unique reason,
the existence of a Soul, his source of creativity, individualism and most critically,
spiritualism, which Plato fully understood.
From the Garden of Eden till the French Enlightenment, spanning tens of thousands
of years, the latter trait defined Man more than any other, exemplified by the Art
he created be it in Architecture, in Literature as Drama, Poetry, the Novel,
in Painting, in Music; to name just a few.
Then the Enlightenment, buttressed by the birth of Capitalism, changed Man's
focus asserting that material betterment was Man's higher calling.
Man is certainly not better off for that dynamic change, as his behavior since
the French Revolution affirms.
One has only to glance at the self labeled "Art" of Modern Man to grasp the
impact of the decline of the spiritual on the individual and on life.

Nearly so...

Nephesh... Soul...
There are 5 kinds of nephesh to match the kinds of creatures.
Everything has a soul. Everything is sentient.
The difference in Man is that his nephesh is fashoned to be an image of YHWH.
Each one a tiny sliver of what it is to be a God.
Finding it in oneself is often even harder than finding it in others.