Doctors Treating Coronavirus Told to Discriminate Against Elderly Patients: They “Will be Left to Di

[Hoodat]

Public approval of healthcare in Scandinavian nations is around 90%. I think in Finland it's almost 94%

Finland’s government collapses over failed health care reform

The 'dark side' of Finland's famous free health care

Why is Finland’s healthcare system failing my family?

Decreasing trends in patient satisfaction, accessibility and continuity of care in Finnish primary health care – a 14-year follow-up questionnaire study

Cheap Finnish Health Care Is Built on the Back of Low-Paid Doctors

[Hoodat]

Oh? In the states poor people suffer and die when they can't afford things like cancer medications/treatment.

With socialist health care, everyone dies when the government refuses to invest in high-cost cancer medications/treatment.

On a personal note, my mother-in-law was living in Canada when she was diagnosed with breast cancer.  She was eligible for the Canadian system, so she went there for treatment.  Her Canadian doctor bluntly told her that if she wanted any chance of survival, she needed to return to the United States.

63,000 Canadians left the country for medical treatment last year: Fraser Institute

Canada’s health-care wait times get failing grade in survey of 11 industrialized countries

Afatinib/ gilotrif currently not avaliable in Canada - Lung cancer

[truth_seeker]

Oh? In the states poor people suffer and die when they can't afford things like cancer medications/treatment. We also still have a lot of homeless veterans with untreated PTSD even though it's apparently a bipartisan desire to help them (yeah, right).

You should provide proof, of your claims.

BTW Vets with PTSD are eligible for full medical treatment of service related conditions.

[DB]

With socialist health care, everyone dies when the government refuses to invest in high-cost cancer medications/treatment.

On a personal note, my mother-in-law was living in Canada when she was diagnosed with breast cancer.  She was eligible for the Canadian system, so she went there for treatment.  Her Canadian doctor bluntly told her that if she wanted any chance of survival, she needed to return to the United States.

63,000 Canadians left the country for medical treatment last year: Fraser Institute

Canada’s health-care wait times get failing grade in survey of 11 industrialized countries

Afatinib/ gilotrif currently not avaliable in Canada - Lung cancer

The US has the best record for cancer treatment in the world with the highest survival rates. It is also where most of the world's medical innovations come from. Other countries benefit from our new treatments without having all the expense of coming up with them.

[Dexter]

https://www.businessinsider.com/healthiest-countries-in-the-world-2017-1

[Dexter]

You should provide proof, of your claims.

BTW Vets with PTSD are eligible for full medical treatment of service related conditions.

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/15932009

Lots of veterans are homeless and receive inadequate healthcare. Why don't they take advantage of our amazing private healthcare system?

[roamer_1]

It's not possible to ensure that right now. Every system has facility and staff limits. If a meteor struck the east coast and millions of people needed emergency aid all at once some people would have to go without care.

Nah. Socialist systems have a finite pie. The beauty of capitalist systems is that they are not without ingenuity.

[Dexter]

Nah. Socialist systems have a finite pie.

You don't think private healthcare has a finite amount of resources?

[roamer_1]

You don't think private healthcare has a finite amount of resources?

No, I do not. Or rather, wherever it becomes finite is an order of magnitude beyond socialist systems...
Particularly because of ingenuity and the ability to change directions quickly.

I recognize than anything can be overwhelmed, but private systems, and capatalist manufacturing picks up the slack pretty quick.

If anything tips us over, I will predict it is JIT manufacturing and a lack of warehoused goods - But that is another debate altogether.

[Cyber Liberty]

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/15932009

Lots of veterans are homeless and receive inadequate healthcare. Why don't they take advantage of our amazing private healthcare system?

Maybe it's because leftist paradises put illegal immigrants in front of Veterans in the line?  Just an observation.

[LMAO]

The US has the best record for cancer treatment in the world with the highest survival rates. It is also where most of the world's medical innovations come from. Other countries benefit from our new treatments without having all the expense of coming up with them.

That’s why our healthcare costs and pharmaceuticals are so costly. In essence, we are subsidizing the world

When the profit motive is taken away, innovation goes with it. It’s just human nature ingrained


Most people who support universal healthcare and specifically Medicare for all have no understanding how the systems actually work. They just keep repeating and regurgitating “but 94%, but 94%”

My wife does a lot of billing for Medicare and Medicaid and insurance in her job and I’ve had a short blip of it and let me tell you if you do not have private supplemental insurance to go with your Medicare plan, you’re screwed

I’ve also said that if these plans were so great, why do people also carry private insurance?

[Hoodat]

You don't think private healthcare has a finite amount of resources?

In a free market, the quantity of goods is set by price - satisfied by a host of sellers/providers.  In a monopoly, the quantity of goods is set solely by the monopolist.

Take MRI machines for example.  The incentive for someone to invest in an MRI machine is because at $600 each, there is a sizeable market of MRI buyers that they can satisfy and realize a profit.  And because this incentive exists, there are thousands of entities willing to purchase MRI machines to satisfy that demand.  But lets say that the market price had to drop to $300 in order to provide enough demand to justify a purchase.  In that case, there would be less entities investing in MRI machines.

Now look at the government monopoly who sets the consumer price for MRIs at $0.  So essentially, there is zero incentive for that monopoly to invest in MRI machines which naturally creates a shortage during NORMAL times.

[DB]

https://www.businessinsider.com/healthiest-countries-in-the-world-2017-1

That isn't a measure of healthcare. Many factors go into longevity not just healthcare. We have more people on drugs, more violence in the inner cities, more people with third world diseases crossing our borders unrestrained. What we eat also is a substantial factor. Many Americans also have desk jobs and don't get enough physical activity.

The US has the highest survival rate for cancer in the world. That is a direct result of our quality of healthcare. The US is the primary driver of medical innovation that the rest of the world benefits from.

[DB]

You don't think private healthcare has a finite amount of resources?

The CT, MRI and PET scanners where all invented by Americans in America. None working directly for government. These are the primary imaging tools used around the world and are crucial to modern medicine. The list is long of these types of innovations by Americans. That isn't a coincidence.

[LMAO]

That isn't a measure of healthcare. Many factors go into longevity not just healthcare. We have more people on drugs, more violence in the inner cities, more people with third world diseases crossing our borders unrestrained. What we eat also is a substantial factor. Many Americans also have desk jobs and don't get enough physical activity.

The US has the highest survival rate for cancer in the world. That is a direct result of our quality of healthcare. The US is the primary driver of medical innovation that the rest of the world benefits from.

 What you outlined is one of the follies of comparing Sweden, for example, to America



 To get an accurate comparison,  the entities that you’re comparing have to share a lot of similarities

 It’s like the infant mortality issue. People were comparing the United States to other countries but many other countries have different standards of what they consider infant mortality

[Dexter]

Maybe it's because leftist paradises put illegal immigrants in front of Veterans in the line?  Just an observation.

Right wing politicians don't give a damn about soldiers any more than left wing ones. That's why we still have so many homeless/suffering vets that need help.

[Dexter]

In a free market, the quantity of goods is set by price - satisfied by a host of sellers/providers.  In a monopoly, the quantity of goods is set solely by the monopolist.

Take MRI machines for example.  The incentive for someone to invest in an MRI machine is because at $600 each, there is a sizeable market of MRI buyers that they can satisfy and realize a profit.  And because this incentive exists, there are thousands of entities willing to purchase MRI machines to satisfy that demand.  But lets say that the market price had to drop to $300 in order to provide enough demand to justify a purchase.  In that case, there would be less entities investing in MRI machines.

Now look at the government monopoly who sets the consumer price for MRIs at $0.  So essentially, there is zero incentive for that monopoly to invest in MRI machines which naturally creates a shortage during NORMAL times.

So are other countries with high public approval of their healthcare system just ignorant? They don't know how bad they have it and how good we do? After your demonstration of how horrifying the healthcare systems are in other countries you'd think they'd have to know how awful it is. The French protest all the time. Are there any chants of "No more national healthcare system!" while they block up roads and bridges? Or maybe they're screaming "No more public university!"

When I was in Sweden I talked a lot of politics with locals (an anecdote I know) and every last one of them had nothing but good things to say about their healthcare system. They actually laughed at the ignorance of some Americans that think Sweden is falling apart and has awful healthcare.

[Cyber Liberty]

Right wing politicians don't give a damn about soldiers any more than left wing ones. That's why we still have so many homeless/suffering vets that need help.

Now you are just spewing.  Flailing about is a bad look for you. 

[Dexter]

Now you are just spewing.  Flailing about is a bad look for you.

Why else would a "bipartisan" issue never get any traction? It's because nobody in the government cares. They don't care about you either. What kinds of people do you think become politicians? Power driven and manipulative people, a lot of them lawyers unsurprisingly. They pay you and the rest of the public lip service so you'll vote for them and then follow through on as little of that lip service as possible. Why do they not care? Because you're not giving them a shitload of the ONE thing they care about, which is money. Be thankful for Trump who actually tries to keep his word. Please put more people like him into the Republican party.

[skeeter]

Why else would a "bipartisan" issue never get any traction? It's because nobody in the government cares. They don't care about you either. What kinds of people do you think become politicians? Power driven and manipulative people, a lot of them lawyers unsurprisingly. They pay you and the rest of the public lip service so you'll vote for them and then follow through on as little of that lip service as possible. Why do they not care? Because you're not giving them a shitload of the ONE thing they care about, which is money. Be thankful for Trump who actually tries to keep his word. Please put more people like him into the Republican party.

Dunno if I should read sarcasm into this post but it makes the most sense of anything you've said to date.

Although I do believe there are a few more honest politicians than you let on, they are pitifully few. And I cannot think of a single one on the left, not even The Bern.

[roamer_1]

Why else would a "bipartisan" issue never get any traction?

You're kidding right? Obamacare just got shoved down our throats with a great deal of Republican complicity. A perfect example of the crappy job the government is bound to preform if that ever comes to a head again. What a mess that was. And notice: The cost of healthcare went UP.

[Dexter]

You're kidding right? Obamacare just got shoved down our throats with a great deal of Republican complicity. A perfect example of the crappy job the government is bound to preform if that ever comes to a head again. What a mess that was. And notice: The cost of healthcare went UP.

Do you think anything more than an extreme minority of right wing politicians actually care about our troops?

McCain was one of the few.

[roamer_1]

Do you think anything more than an extreme minority of right wing politicians actually care about our troops?

McCain was one of the few.

No, I think you'll find a lot on the right that are military men. Certainly used to be so when Conservatives voted like conservatives - It was pretty much a prerequisite that a candidate serve military time.

And McCain't was a POS.

[Dexter]

And McCain't was a POS.

McCain was a good and honorable man regardless of any decisions of his you disagree with.

[roamer_1]

McCain was a good and honorable man regardless of any decisions of his you disagree with.

Absolutely disagree.