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Author Topic: Doctors Treating Coronavirus Told to Discriminate Against Elderly Patients: They “Will be Left to Di  (Read 7329 times)

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Offline musiclady

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Re: Doctors Treating Coronavirus Told to Discriminate Against Elderly Patients: They “Will be Left t
« Reply #25 on: March 13, 2020, 06:44:05 pm »
Quote from: Dexter on March 13, 2020, 06:34:03 pm
I asked you a question. If there is no choice but to let somebody go without care so we can save others, how do we go about making that decision?

As in every aspect of actual healthcare (not the nationalized ghoulish practices you advocate), if those decisions ever have to be made (which hasn’t happened), the decisions should be made on an individual basis, based on the individual medical condition and not on the vile leftist policy that says, “You’ve lived long enough and don’t contribute to the Fatherland, so you must die.”

You need to study your history and try to understand the radical anti life positions of the policies you so glibly and ignorantly support.
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Character still matters.  It always matters.

I wear a mask as an exercise in liberty and love for others.  To see it as an infringement of liberty is to entirely miss the point.  Be kind.

"Sometimes I think the Church would be better off if we would call a moratorium on activity for about six weeks and just wait on God to see what He is waiting to do for us. That's what they did before Pentecost."   - A. W. Tozer

Use the time God is giving us to seek His will and feel His presence.

Offline Cyber Liberty

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Re: Doctors Treating Coronavirus Told to Discriminate Against Elderly Patients: They “Will be Left t
« Reply #26 on: March 13, 2020, 07:01:50 pm »
Quote from: Dexter on March 13, 2020, 06:28:24 pm
If somebody must be left to die who should it be? Do we flip a coin? Pull straws? There isn't a pretty answer.

That's right!  If you are going to make an omelet you have to break a few eggs.
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For unvaccinated, we are looking at a winter of severe illness and death — if you’re unvaccinated — for themselves, their families, and the hospitals they’ll soon overwhelm. Sloe Joe Biteme 12/16
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Offline Formerly Once-Ler

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Re: Doctors Treating Coronavirus Told to Discriminate Against Elderly Patients: They “Will be Left t
« Reply #27 on: March 13, 2020, 07:51:41 pm »
Quote from: Cyber Liberty on March 13, 2020, 03:25:40 pm
Your deep concern for the elderly of Italy is noted.   *****rollingeyes*****
You sound angry about it too.
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Offline Cyber Liberty

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Re: Doctors Treating Coronavirus Told to Discriminate Against Elderly Patients: They “Will be Left t
« Reply #28 on: March 13, 2020, 08:00:15 pm »
Quote from: Once-Ler on March 13, 2020, 07:51:41 pm
You sound angry about it too.

I'm feeling pretty positive, actually. 
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For unvaccinated, we are looking at a winter of severe illness and death — if you’re unvaccinated — for themselves, their families, and the hospitals they’ll soon overwhelm. Sloe Joe Biteme 12/16
I will NOT comply.
 
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Offline Dexter

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Re: Doctors Treating Coronavirus Told to Discriminate Against Elderly Patients: They “Will be Left t
« Reply #29 on: March 13, 2020, 08:49:14 pm »
Quote from: musiclady on March 13, 2020, 06:44:05 pm
based on the individual medical condition

Is age relevant when diagnosing somebody's individual medical condition?
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Offline Hoodat

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Re: Doctors Treating Coronavirus Told to Discriminate Against Elderly Patients: They “Will be Left t
« Reply #30 on: March 13, 2020, 08:56:01 pm »
Quote from: Dexter on March 13, 2020, 08:49:14 pm
Is age relevant when diagnosing somebody's individual medical condition?

According to the Netherlands - a country with socialized medicine that you seem to favor - yes.

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3846917/
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Offline Dexter

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Re: Doctors Treating Coronavirus Told to Discriminate Against Elderly Patients: They “Will be Left t
« Reply #31 on: March 13, 2020, 08:58:16 pm »
Quote from: Hoodat on March 13, 2020, 08:56:01 pm
According to the Netherlands - a country with socialized medicine that you seem to favor - yes.

And what about according to you? Is age relevant when diagnosing an individual's medical condition?
« Last Edit: March 13, 2020, 09:06:16 pm by Dexter »
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Offline Hoodat

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Re: Doctors Treating Coronavirus Told to Discriminate Against Elderly Patients: They “Will be Left t
« Reply #32 on: March 13, 2020, 09:03:32 pm »
Quote from: Dexter on March 13, 2020, 08:58:16 pm
And what about according to you? Is age relevant when diagnosing an in individual's medical condition?

Daffodils
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If a political party does not have its foundation in the determination to advance a cause that is right and that is moral, then it is not a political party; it is merely a conspiracy to seize power.

-Dwight Eisenhower-


"The [U.S.] Constitution is a limitation on the government, not on private individuals ... it does not prescribe the conduct of private individuals, only the conduct of the government ... it is not a charter for government power, but a charter of the citizen's protection against the government."

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Offline GrouchoTex

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Re: Doctors Treating Coronavirus Told to Discriminate Against Elderly Patients: They “Will be Left t
« Reply #33 on: March 13, 2020, 09:05:12 pm »
This discussion always sucks.

The real issue with the high cost of health care and the lack of health services in some areas is the same as it has always been.
Our Governments involvement in it.

When there was not a Department of Health, there were house calls.
Tort reform has helped some, here in Texas, but the government is still way too involved.

No one should care if a 99 year old doesn't want the plug pulled on them.

Some may think it is selfish, but that person has the right to stay alive, if they want to.

It's nobody else's business.


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Offline musiclady

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Re: Doctors Treating Coronavirus Told to Discriminate Against Elderly Patients: They “Will be Left t
« Reply #34 on: March 13, 2020, 09:06:22 pm »
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Character still matters.  It always matters.

I wear a mask as an exercise in liberty and love for others.  To see it as an infringement of liberty is to entirely miss the point.  Be kind.

"Sometimes I think the Church would be better off if we would call a moratorium on activity for about six weeks and just wait on God to see what He is waiting to do for us. That's what they did before Pentecost."   - A. W. Tozer

Use the time God is giving us to seek His will and feel His presence.

Offline Hoodat

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Re: Doctors Treating Coronavirus Told to Discriminate Against Elderly Patients: They “Will be Left t
« Reply #35 on: March 13, 2020, 09:06:59 pm »
Quote from: GrouchoTex on March 13, 2020, 09:05:12 pm
This discussion always sucks.

The real issue with the high cost of health care and the lack of health services in some areas is the same as it has always been.
Our Governments involvement in it.

Ditto, ditto, and ditto again.  Get the federal government the hell out of the way!
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If a political party does not have its foundation in the determination to advance a cause that is right and that is moral, then it is not a political party; it is merely a conspiracy to seize power.

-Dwight Eisenhower-


"The [U.S.] Constitution is a limitation on the government, not on private individuals ... it does not prescribe the conduct of private individuals, only the conduct of the government ... it is not a charter for government power, but a charter of the citizen's protection against the government."

-Ayn Rand-

Offline Dexter

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Re: Doctors Treating Coronavirus Told to Discriminate Against Elderly Patients: They “Will be Left t
« Reply #36 on: March 13, 2020, 09:08:10 pm »
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Offline Cyber Liberty

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Re: Doctors Treating Coronavirus Told to Discriminate Against Elderly Patients: They “Will be Left t
« Reply #37 on: March 13, 2020, 09:14:06 pm »
Quote from: Dexter on March 13, 2020, 08:58:16 pm
And what about according to you? Is age relevant when diagnosing an individual's medical condition?

Why should I car what @Hoodat thinks?  He's a good friend, but I don't look to him for medical advice.
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For unvaccinated, we are looking at a winter of severe illness and death — if you’re unvaccinated — for themselves, their families, and the hospitals they’ll soon overwhelm. Sloe Joe Biteme 12/16
I will NOT comply.
 
Castillo del Cyber Autonomous Zone ~~~~~>                          :dontfeed:

Offline musiclady

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Re: Doctors Treating Coronavirus Told to Discriminate Against Elderly Patients: They “Will be Left t
« Reply #38 on: March 13, 2020, 09:21:27 pm »
Quote from: Cyber Liberty on March 13, 2020, 09:14:06 pm
Why should I car what @Hoodat thinks?  He's a good friend, but I don't look to him for medical advice.

Which of course is why doctors and not the government....... especially a leftist government that practices eugenics....... should make decisions about their patients as individuals.

The problem with the radical left (like Dex here) is that they want to impose their values, or lack thereof, on the best, brightest medical community in the world.
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Character still matters.  It always matters.

I wear a mask as an exercise in liberty and love for others.  To see it as an infringement of liberty is to entirely miss the point.  Be kind.

"Sometimes I think the Church would be better off if we would call a moratorium on activity for about six weeks and just wait on God to see what He is waiting to do for us. That's what they did before Pentecost."   - A. W. Tozer

Use the time God is giving us to seek His will and feel His presence.

Offline XenaLee

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Re: Doctors Treating Coronavirus Told to Discriminate Against Elderly Patients: They “Will be Left t
« Reply #39 on: March 13, 2020, 09:33:13 pm »
Quote from: Dexter on March 13, 2020, 06:28:24 pm
If somebody must be left to die who should it be? Do we flip a coin? Pull straws? There isn't a pretty answer.

Do what the ERs do (or are supposed to do).   Give critical care to those most in need of critical care and/or those that are the most vulnerable ....and let the younger, healthier patients, whose immune systems are stronger, wait for care at a later time, if still needed.

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Offline libertybele

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Re: Doctors Treating Coronavirus Told to Discriminate Against Elderly Patients: They “Will be Left t
« Reply #40 on: March 13, 2020, 09:45:55 pm »
Quote from: XenaLee on March 13, 2020, 09:33:13 pm
Do what the ERs do (or are supposed to do).   Give critical care to those most in need of critical care and/or those that are the most vulnerable ....and let the younger, healthier patients, whose immune systems are stronger, wait for care at a later time, if still needed.

 888high58888
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Romans 12:16-21

Live in harmony with one another; do not be haughty, but associate with the lowly, do not claim to be wiser than you are.  Do not repay anyone evil for evil, but take thought for what is noble in the sight of all.  If it is possible, so far as it depends on you, live peaceably with all…do not be overcome by evil, but overcome evil with good.

Offline Hoodat

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Re: Doctors Treating Coronavirus Told to Discriminate Against Elderly Patients: They “Will be Left t
« Reply #41 on: March 13, 2020, 10:08:01 pm »
Quote from: Cyber Liberty on March 13, 2020, 09:14:06 pm
Why should I car what @Hoodat thinks?  He's a good friend, but I don't look to him for medical advice.

Nor should you.  I would have told you to put Windex on it.

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If a political party does not have its foundation in the determination to advance a cause that is right and that is moral, then it is not a political party; it is merely a conspiracy to seize power.

-Dwight Eisenhower-


"The [U.S.] Constitution is a limitation on the government, not on private individuals ... it does not prescribe the conduct of private individuals, only the conduct of the government ... it is not a charter for government power, but a charter of the citizen's protection against the government."

-Ayn Rand-

Offline skeeter

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Re: Doctors Treating Coronavirus Told to Discriminate Against Elderly Patients: They “Will be Left t
« Reply #42 on: March 13, 2020, 10:08:41 pm »
Quote from: GrouchoTex on March 13, 2020, 09:05:12 pm
This discussion always sucks.

The real issue with the high cost of health care and the lack of health services in some areas is the same as it has always been.
Our Governments involvement in it.

When there was not a Department of Health, there were house calls.
Tort reform has helped some, here in Texas, but the government is still way too involved.

No one should care if a 99 year old doesn't want the plug pulled on them.

Some may think it is selfish, but that person has the right to stay alive, if they want to.

It's nobody else's business.

Its always those who aren't elderly who think questions such as 'should elderly receive treatment' even be asked.

Maybe it'd be useful for them to erase 'elderly' and imagine another adjective in its place.
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Offline musiclady

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Re: Doctors Treating Coronavirus Told to Discriminate Against Elderly Patients: They “Will be Left t
« Reply #43 on: March 13, 2020, 10:13:27 pm »
Quote from: XenaLee on March 13, 2020, 09:33:13 pm
Do what the ERs do (or are supposed to do).   Give critical care to those most in need of critical care and/or those that are the most vulnerable ....and let the younger, healthier patients, whose immune systems are stronger, wait for care at a later time, if still needed.

Yes!!!

Which is exactly the opposite of what Italy is doing and what the eugenicist American left wants to do.
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Character still matters.  It always matters.

I wear a mask as an exercise in liberty and love for others.  To see it as an infringement of liberty is to entirely miss the point.  Be kind.

"Sometimes I think the Church would be better off if we would call a moratorium on activity for about six weeks and just wait on God to see what He is waiting to do for us. That's what they did before Pentecost."   - A. W. Tozer

Use the time God is giving us to seek His will and feel His presence.

Offline Dexter

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Re: Doctors Treating Coronavirus Told to Discriminate Against Elderly Patients: They “Will be Left t
« Reply #44 on: March 13, 2020, 10:15:52 pm »
Quote from: XenaLee on March 13, 2020, 09:33:13 pm
Do what the ERs do (or are supposed to do).   Give critical care to those most in need of critical care and/or those that are the most vulnerable ....and let the younger, healthier patients, whose immune systems are stronger, wait for care at a later time, if still needed.

Hopefully when disaster strikes it's all that simple and goes according to plan. ;)
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Offline Hoodat

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Re: Doctors Treating Coronavirus Told to Discriminate Against Elderly Patients: They “Will be Left t
« Reply #45 on: March 13, 2020, 10:16:34 pm »
Quote from: Dexter on March 13, 2020, 05:23:59 pm
If there's more need than availability of care during a disaster somebody is going to get screwed. It happens in war sometimes. Some horrifying shit goes down and limited medical personnel have to make heartbreaking decisions about who is worth trying to save and who should be left to die.

With socialized medicine, this doesn't just "happen in war sometimes".  It happens all the time.  Socialized medicine and price fixing creates a shortage.  Instead of supply meeting demand, demand always outpaces supply.  Always.  Which is why patients have to wait 10 months for an MRI.  Because the supply simply isn't there.

So, here's the question back at you.  When 3,000 patients get in line for the use of one MRI machine, who gets to make the heartbreaking decision about who is worth trying to save and who should not?

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If a political party does not have its foundation in the determination to advance a cause that is right and that is moral, then it is not a political party; it is merely a conspiracy to seize power.

-Dwight Eisenhower-


"The [U.S.] Constitution is a limitation on the government, not on private individuals ... it does not prescribe the conduct of private individuals, only the conduct of the government ... it is not a charter for government power, but a charter of the citizen's protection against the government."

-Ayn Rand-

Offline Hoodat

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Re: Doctors Treating Coronavirus Told to Discriminate Against Elderly Patients: They “Will be Left t
« Reply #46 on: March 13, 2020, 10:19:30 pm »
Quote from: Dexter on March 13, 2020, 10:15:52 pm
Hopefully when disaster strikes it's all that simple and goes according to plan. ;)

Your concern regarding this disaster scenario is remarkable when considering that under the system you advocate, the disaster scenario become the norm.
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If a political party does not have its foundation in the determination to advance a cause that is right and that is moral, then it is not a political party; it is merely a conspiracy to seize power.

-Dwight Eisenhower-


"The [U.S.] Constitution is a limitation on the government, not on private individuals ... it does not prescribe the conduct of private individuals, only the conduct of the government ... it is not a charter for government power, but a charter of the citizen's protection against the government."

-Ayn Rand-

Offline Dexter

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Re: Doctors Treating Coronavirus Told to Discriminate Against Elderly Patients: They “Will be Left t
« Reply #47 on: March 13, 2020, 10:31:22 pm »
Quote from: Hoodat on March 13, 2020, 10:19:30 pm
Your concern regarding this disaster scenario is remarkable when considering that under the system you advocate, the disaster scenario become the norm.

Can you link me to some stats or studies from Europe that show this as being the norm?
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Offline Hoodat

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Re: Doctors Treating Coronavirus Told to Discriminate Against Elderly Patients: They “Will be Left t
« Reply #48 on: March 13, 2020, 10:47:24 pm »
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If a political party does not have its foundation in the determination to advance a cause that is right and that is moral, then it is not a political party; it is merely a conspiracy to seize power.

-Dwight Eisenhower-


"The [U.S.] Constitution is a limitation on the government, not on private individuals ... it does not prescribe the conduct of private individuals, only the conduct of the government ... it is not a charter for government power, but a charter of the citizen's protection against the government."

-Ayn Rand-

Offline Dexter

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Re: Doctors Treating Coronavirus Told to Discriminate Against Elderly Patients: They “Will be Left t
« Reply #49 on: March 13, 2020, 10:55:16 pm »
Quote from: Hoodat on March 13, 2020, 10:47:24 pm
Does this mean you are finally abandoning the Bernie Sanders model?  Because we already showed you plenty of examples of that shortage.  But if you want Europe, here you go.

Socialized Healthcare Cruelty: UK Government Rations Eye Surgeries, Leaving 'Thousands' to Go Blind

Rationing care is a fact of life for the NHS

NHS rationing 'is denying patients care' as cash crisis deepens

NHS surgery rationing on the rise as thousands rejected for cataract surgery, investigation finds

Obese patients and smokers banned from routine surgery  in 'most severe ever' rationing in the NHS

The cost of NHS health care: Deciding who lives and who dies


Seems like the UK has some work to do. Public approval is still high though. I wouldn't say you've established a norm with stats and studies like I asked. Got anything from Germany? Israel? Scandinavia?

It'd be cool if you could limit far right websites that will have an obvious objective bias too.
« Last Edit: March 13, 2020, 10:59:05 pm by Dexter »
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