Bernie: Real Socialism Has Never Been Tried

[Dexter]

There is a huge difference between those of us who debate issues of Conservatism and you, who are here advocating a government takeover of healthcare and boasting about the benefits of socialism.

To put us in the same category is at the very least disingenuous.

The fact that the DNC doesn’t want to openly run a Communist is neither here nor there.

My point is you're not accomplishing anything here either. And actually now that I think about it I have gained things from this place. My perspective has become much more nuanced than it was 10 years ago, and this forum is part of that. You might not see what I have learned from you, but that doesn't mean I haven't. I'll never be like you. I can still benefit from our discussions though.

[Dexter]

or.....

"Better Red, than Dead."

I love my life. I have a son and a girlfriend that loves me. I have a good job and get to travel all over the world whenever the hell I want. I'm not going to put my life at risk unnecessarily. To some extent I suppose what you've said is accurate, but it's not that cut and dry. I can still enjoy my life regardless of how this goes down. I refuse to fight.

[Dexter]

Don't expect the majority of us in here to ever be convinced

Never have and never will. It seems more like some of y'all are salty that you're not having any success changing my mind either. I'm good with it. Are you?

[Dexter]

Nah... I don't buy it. 

So what's my angle Roamer? You tell me.

[Dexter]

@Dexter
Just meeting your grandkids is not enough, it is what you leave them.
Anyone can make babies, it is more important to leave them a country that they can give to their kids.

My grandkids will live in a world with technological marvels beyond my comprehension.

[Dexter]

Possibly the most gutless post of the thread.

Sorry to disappoint you.

[Cyber Liberty]

Sorry to disappoint you.

I'm not disappointed in the least.  Nope.  I suppose I would be if you pretended to be anything other than a left-winged socialist.

[Hoodat]

I'm not disappointed in the least.  Nope.  I suppose I would be if you pretended to be anything other than a left-winged socialist.

Not just a left-winged socialist, but a left-winged socialist that doesn't know (nor want to know) what Bernie Sanders stands for.

[Dexter]

a left-winged socialist.

One that would vote for Donald Trump or Ron/Rand Paul. 

How many socialists do you know that would do that?

[Cyber Liberty]

One that would vote for Donald Trump or Ron/Rand Paul. 

So you say. 

[Dexter]

So you say.

What exactly would I have to gain by lying? You've seen me make strong arguments in support of them; I mean it. Maybe I'm just not like the partisan clowns you're used to engaging with.

[libertybele]

I love my life. I have a son and a girlfriend that loves me. I have a good job and get to travel all over the world whenever the hell I want. I'm not going to put my life at risk unnecessarily. To some extent I suppose what you've said is accurate, but it's not that cut and dry. I can still enjoy my life regardless of how this goes down. I refuse to fight.

Obviously you feel that socialism won't have a negative impact on your life.  For some of us, it is watching the America that we hold dear becoming an America whose decline is detrimental; not only to our country but to the world.

Great movie I recommend for you to see, if you haven't already:

"America: Imagine the World Without Her".

[Hoodat]

What exactly would I have to gain by lying?

Safety.  It protects you from having to actually think.  Your emotions can remain intact as long as your beliefs remain unchallenged by truth.

As an example, take a look at your whole Bernie Sanders love crush.  You embraced Sanders as an advocate of Scandinavian socialism.  Yet after half a dozen contrasts were repeatedly pointed out to you between Sanders position and the Scandinavian model, you still could not bring yourself to acknowledge those discrepancies, admit the shortcomings of your argument, and reassess your position.  That in itself reflects a substantial degree of dishonesty.

Of course you could correct all that now by taking the steps above.  But I suspect you are incapable of doing so, lest your emotional stances be altered.  We'll see how you respond.  Maybe you will surprise us, but I am not holding my breath.

[Dexter]

Obviously you feel that socialism won't have a negative impact on your life.

I want to complain about the way y'all are debating for a moment.

I have expressed probably half a dozen times now that I don't actually think socialism is possible in the year 2020. It probably won't be possible in the year 2040 either. What I did say is that I believe given enough time we will be bottle-necked into it by a combination of technology and government. What's the timeline? I don't know. It's just my prediction for the future. I also said I have disagreements with Bernie Sanders.

However y'all have repeatedly talked to me as if I am some communist Bernie acolyte simply because I don't disagree with everything he says and don't think he's a bad man. It feels petty, like you just want to take that shot knowing I'm not going to like it. I'm not trying to provoke any of you, yet you deliberately disparage me with inaccurate and unfair labels. God forbid I not be wholly on one side or the other.

[Dexter]

Safety.  It protects you from having to actually think.  Your emotions can remain intact as long as your beliefs remain unchallenged by truth.

As an example, take a look at your whole Bernie Sanders love crush.  You embraced Sanders as an advocate of Scandinavian socialism.  Yet after half a dozen contrasts were repeatedly pointed out to you between Sanders position and the Scandinavian model, you still could not bring yourself to acknowledge those discrepancies, admit the shortcomings of your argument, and reassess your position.  That in itself reflects a substantial degree of dishonesty.

Of course you could correct all that now by taking the steps above.  But I suspect you are incapable of doing so, lest your emotional stances be altered.  We'll see how you respond.  Maybe you will surprise us, but I am not holding my breath.

I think you're ignorant about some things and that you're refusing to debate fairly/honestly. I already told you we'll never see eye to eye on the point you're obsessed with driving home. I'm not interested anymore. You win Hoodat. You're not going to pull me back in. I'm bored. If you've got a different angle you're interested in tossing my way I'll reevaluate whether or not I'm interested in debating with you.

[Hoodat]

However y'all have repeatedly talked to me as if I am some communist Bernie acolyte simply because I don't disagree with everything he says and don't think he's a bad man.

Again, my issue is that you came here advocating Bernie Sanders for proposing Scandinavian socialism when the fact is that he does no such thing.  Your refusal to acknowledge that simple truth is a huge stumbling block for me.  I really don't care about how you 'feel'.  All I care about is 'truth'.  Because without it, there is no standard for discussion.

[Dexter]

Again, my issue is that you came here advocating Bernie Sanders for proposing Scandinavian socialism when the fact is that he does no such thing.  Your refusal to acknowledge that simple truth is a huge stumbling block for me.  I really don't care about how you 'feel'.  All I care about is 'truth'.  Because without it, there is no standard for discussion.

If you honestly in your heart see no connection between Bernie's philosophy and that of Europe/Scandinavia then we have nothing more to talk about. You're having trouble letting go and accepting that we can't resolve that disagreement. I have moved on.

[Hoodat]

I think you're ignorant about a lot of things and that you're refusing to debate fairly/honestly. I already told you we'll never see eye to eye on the point you're obsessed with driving home. I'm not interested anymore. You win Hoodat. You're not going to pull me back in. I'm bored. If you've got a different angle you're interested in tossing my way I'll reevaluate whether or not I'm interested in debating with you.

Really?  Let's review, shall we?  On more than one occasion, you have claimed to have statistics that back up your assertion that socialized medicine is better.  Yet I have asked you to provide these statistics multiple times, all of which have been ignored.  And now you question my honesty and fairness?  Please.
 

I already told you we'll never see eye to eye on the point you're obsessed with driving home.

I am not asking you to see eye to eye.  I am only asking you to accept the obvious truth that Sanders wants to eliminate private insurance which goes against the Scandinavian model.  You can embrace Sanders' position or you can reject it.  I really don't care which one you choose.  All I ask is that you stop lying about it and accept it for what it is.

You win Hoodat.

No.  Truth wins.  Critical thought wins.  Being able to back up your position with actual facts wins.  All three of which you have failed to do. 

I'm bored.

If you are really bored, then rise to the challenge.  Use your brain.  Apply critical thought.  Back up your position with facts rather than emotion.  It can be quite invigorating for you.  But you're not bored.  You are simply afraid.

If you've got a different angle you're interested in tossing my way I'll reevaluate whether or not I'm interested in debating with you.

I already did.  You completely ignored it.  Repeatedly.

[Dexter]

Really?  Let's review, shall we?  On more than one occasion, you have claimed to have statistics that back up your assertion that socialized medicine is better.  Yet I have asked you to provide these statistics multiple times, all of which have been ignored.  And now you question my honesty and fairness?  Please.
 

I am not asking you to see eye to eye.  I am only asking you to accept the obvious truth that Sanders wants to eliminate private insurance which goes against the Scandinavian model.  You can embrace Sanders' position or you can reject it.  I really don't care which one you choose.  All I ask is that you stop lying about it and accept it for what it is.


No.  Truth wins.  Critical thought wins.  Being able to back up your position with actual facts wins.  All three of which you have failed to do. 


If you are really bored, then rise to the challenge.  Use your brain.  Apply critical thought.  Back up your position with facts rather than emotion.  It can be quite invigorating for you.  But you're not bored.  You are simply afraid.


I already did.  You completely ignored it.  Repeatedly.

Okay. Are we done now?

[Hoodat]

If you honestly in your heart see no connection between Bernie's philosophy and that of Europe/Scandinavia then we have nothing more to talk about.

If you honestly in your brain see no contrast with Scandinavian private insurance and Bernie Sanders position to eliminate private insurance, then there is nothing honest about your brain.  Which explains why your feelings trump 'truth'.

[Dexter]

If you honestly in your brain see no contrast with Scandinavian private insurance and Bernie Sanders position to eliminate private insurance, then there is nothing honest about your brain.  Which explains why your feelings trump 'truth'.

 

[Hoodat]

Okay. Are we done now?

We were done back when you first show up lying about what Bernie Sanders stood for.  My only curiosity at this point is whether you still support Sanders' position or instead reject his position in favor of what Scandinavia does.  But I seriously doubt that you possess the integrity to draw that contrast and formulate a truthful answer.

[Dexter]

We were done back when you first show up lying about what Bernie Sanders stood for.  My only curiosity at this point is whether you still support Sanders' position or instead reject his position in favor of what Scandinavia does.  But I seriously doubt that you possess the integrity to draw that contrast and formulate a truthful answer.

Okay. You've had the last debate words like 3 times now. I'm not interested anymore.

Congratulations on your victory.

[Hoodat]

Like I said, lack the integrity.

[truth_seeker]

I love my life. I have a son and a girlfriend that loves me. I have a good job and get to travel all over the world whenever the hell I want. I'm not going to put my life at risk unnecessarily. To some extent I suppose what you've said is accurate, but it's not that cut and dry. I can still enjoy my life regardless of how this goes down. I refuse to fight.

Commie-pinko Bernie operative. From Russian troll-factory?