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Life Discovered in Flammable Ice
sneakypete:
--- Quote from: thackney on February 11, 2020, 03:16:22 pm ---The water does not separate into hydrogen and oxygen under these conditions. The chemical bond of the water molecule is fairly strong. It changes state, melting then evaporating, but it remains H2O.
As the ice melts, the methane burns, which melts more ice, which releases more methane....
Also keep in mind, the methane is not trapped in a chemical bond with the water. It is physically trapped with a few ice molecules. Held in place but not chemically bonded.
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@thackney
Ok,thanks. I THINK I now have an inkling. No small accomplishment,trust me on this.
Cyber Liberty:
@sneakypete
Solids are not the only form of matter that can be dissolved in water. Gasses can be dissolved in water just like table salt or sugar. Clorox bleach, for example, is essentially water with Chlorine dissolved in it. It reverts to water if you leave the cap off the jug. IIRC, HydroChloric acid is like that, too, because HCl is a gas at room temperature. Long, long time since college chemistry.
It comes as no surprise ice exists with methane dissolved in water, and will be released as the water changes from ice to liquid to gas. Voila! Ice that burns a fire that feeds itself by creating enough heat to melt more ice and release more methane.
ChemEngrMBA:
--- Quote from: Cyber Liberty on February 11, 2020, 09:12:01 pm ---@sneakypete
Solids are not the only form of matter that can be dissolved in water. Gasses can be dissolved in water just like table salt or sugar. Clorox bleach, for example, is essentially water with Chlorine dissolved in it. It reverts to water if you leave the cap off the jug. IIRC, HydroChloric acid is like that, too, because HCl is a gas at room temperature. Long, long time since college chemistry.
It comes as no surprise ice exists with methane dissolved in water, and will be released as the water changes from ice to liquid to gas. Voila! Ice that burns a fire that feeds itself by creating enough heat to melt more ice and release more methane.
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CL, the solubility of methane in water (1 atm and 12 C) is a paltry 27 milligrams per liter. This equals 0.009524 of an ounce. The heat of fusion of water is extremely high, 80 times the specific heat of water, and .0009524 of an ounce PER LITER won't cut it.
Liquids also dissolve in water, many of them called "miscible." Alcohol is a good example. You can disperse a drop of alcohol in a liter of water and vice versa. You can mix them 50/50 or in any other proportion.
Elderberry:
Methane clathrate
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Methane_clathrate
--- Quote ---Methane clathrate (CH4·5.75H2O) or (4CH4·23H2O), also called methane hydrate, hydromethane, methane ice, fire ice, natural gas hydrate, or gas hydrate, is a solid clathrate compound (more specifically, a clathrate hydrate) in which a large amount of methane is trapped within a crystal structure of water, forming a solid similar to ice.[1][2][3] Originally thought to occur only in the outer regions of the Solar System, where temperatures are low and water ice is common, significant deposits of methane clathrate have been found under sediments on the ocean floors of the Earth.[4]
Methane clathrates are common constituents of the shallow marine geosphere and they occur in deep sedimentary structures and form outcrops on the ocean floor. Methane hydrates are believed to form by the precipitation or crystallisation of methane migrating from deep along geological faults. Precipitation occurs when the methane comes in contact with water within the sea bed subject to temperature and pressure. In 2008, research on Antarctic Vostok and EPICA Dome C ice cores revealed that methane clathrates were also present in deep Antarctic ice cores and record a history of atmospheric methane concentrations, dating to 800,000 years ago.[5] The ice-core methane clathrate record is a primary source of data for global warming research, along with oxygen and carbon dioxide.
Structure and composition
The nominal methane clathrate hydrate composition is (CH4)4(H2O)23, or 1 mole of methane for every 5.75 moles of water, corresponding to 13.4% methane by mass, although the actual composition is dependent on how many methane molecules fit into the various cage structures of the water lattice. The observed density is around 0.9 g/cm3, which means that methane hydrate will float to the surface of the sea or of a lake unless it is bound in place by being formed in or anchored to sediment.[7] One litre of fully saturated methane clathrate solid would therefore contain about 120 grams of methane (or around 169 litres of methane gas at 0 °C and 1 atm),[nb 1] or one cubic metre of methane clathrate releases about 160 cubic metres of gas.[6]
Methane forms a structure I hydrate with two dodecahedral (12 vertices, thus 12 water molecules) and six tetradecahedral (14 water molecules) water cages per unit cell. (Because of sharing of water molecules between cages, there are only 46 water molecules per unit cell.) This compares with a hydration number of 20 for methane in aqueous solution.[8] A methane clathrate MAS NMR spectrum recorded at 275 K and 3.1 MPa shows a peak for each cage type and a separate peak for gas phase methane.[citation needed] In 2003, a clay-methane hydrate intercalate was synthesized in which a methane hydrate complex was introduced at the interlayer of a sodium-rich montmorillonite clay. The upper temperature stability of this phase is similar to that of structure I hydrate.[9]
More at link.
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EdinVA:
We treat methane gas as a waste by product.All of the landfills burn off the methane..Oil refineries burn off methaneMethane gas is the largest pollutant today and the climate "warriors" are yelling about it...
So why are we spending hundreds of millions of dollars to do this research?
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