Author Topic: Live Thread: Impeachment Acquital  (Read 9844 times)

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Offline Bigun

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Re: Live Thread: Impeachment Acquital
« Reply #325 on: February 09, 2020, 06:03:50 pm »
The architects of that abomination repeatedly countered the claims of taxing people for merely being alive with the mantra that it was a penalty and not a tax.

I heard Bernie today on the radio harping that millions were without health insurance.

Well, who in the >bleep< does he think made it that way? I HAD health insurance before the Damnedocrats started messing with it.

The left will not stand for people who do not need them living in this country!  They simply cannot allow that.
"I wish it need not have happened in my time," said Frodo.

"So do I," said Gandalf, "and so do all who live to see such times. But that is not for them to decide. All we have to decide is what to do with the time that is given us."
- J. R. R. Tolkien

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Re: Live Thread: Impeachment Acquital
« Reply #326 on: February 09, 2020, 06:05:35 pm »
:yowsa: Exactly right @Cyber Liberty

The key part of that is, Roberts changed the argument, without giving anybody a chance to refute it.  That's dirty pool.
For unvaccinated, we are looking at a winter of severe illness and death — if you’re unvaccinated — for themselves, their families, and the hospitals they’ll soon overwhelm. Sloe Joe Biteme 12/16
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Offline roamer_1

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Re: Live Thread: Impeachment Acquital
« Reply #327 on: February 09, 2020, 06:07:27 pm »

Only for that reason can I see that transition of lesser evils, so long as each is less than that previous, before finally breaking through into the light.

Would I eminently prefer a wave of epiphany sweep over the collective American psyche and the demand shift to Liberty, not slavery? Oh, dear Jesus, yes!
But short of Divine intervention, I do not believe it will happen that way.
Still, The Almighty uses what tools He will, imperfect people to do great things, and by their fruits shall we know them.

Ever strive for better, but we fight with the army we have.

I will disagree - which is rare with you, Joe.

Lesser evil has consistently proven to move us the other way - Not toward liberty, but always away from it... It is definitively the shedding of principle things. That which is not insisted upon will not be defended in the next election. And so it goes. Soon it is all nothing but lip service.

And the mechanism of that is indeed mechanical. Lesser is the excuse, but it removes all consequence for no performance.  We all 'know' somehow we'd have been worse off if (x)... Which is not necessarily true because it is actually unknown.

To me it is the ultimate cop out. The easy way. And we know where the wide road goes.

In the end it is not winning. Because what we are supposedly defending will be all gone.

Offline Bigun

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Re: Live Thread: Impeachment Acquital
« Reply #328 on: February 09, 2020, 06:18:27 pm »
The key part of that is, Roberts changed the argument, without giving anybody a chance to refute it.  That's dirty pool.

Not only did he rewrite the law, he rewrote the arguments as well.  :crying: **nononono*
"I wish it need not have happened in my time," said Frodo.

"So do I," said Gandalf, "and so do all who live to see such times. But that is not for them to decide. All we have to decide is what to do with the time that is given us."
- J. R. R. Tolkien

Offline Bigun

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Re: Live Thread: Impeachment Acquital
« Reply #329 on: February 09, 2020, 06:20:12 pm »
I will disagree - which is rare with you, Joe.

Lesser evil has consistently proven to move us the other way - Not toward liberty, but always away from it... It is definitively the shedding of principle things. That which is not insisted upon will not be defended in the next election. And so it goes. Soon it is all nothing but lip service.

And the mechanism of that is indeed mechanical. Lesser is the excuse, but it removes all consequence for no performance.  We all 'know' somehow we'd have been worse off if (x)... Which is not necessarily true because it is actually unknown.

To me it is the ultimate cop out. The easy way. And we know where the wide road goes.

In the end it is not winning. Because what we are supposedly defending will be all gone.

And I will agree with @Smokin Joe on this. But you already knew that didn't you @roamer_1
"I wish it need not have happened in my time," said Frodo.

"So do I," said Gandalf, "and so do all who live to see such times. But that is not for them to decide. All we have to decide is what to do with the time that is given us."
- J. R. R. Tolkien

Offline Smokin Joe

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Re: Live Thread: Impeachment Acquital
« Reply #330 on: February 09, 2020, 06:21:26 pm »
I will disagree - which is rare with you, Joe.

Lesser evil has consistently proven to move us the other way - Not toward liberty, but always away from it... It is definitively the shedding of principle things. That which is not insisted upon will not be defended in the next election. And so it goes. Soon it is all nothing but lip service.

And the mechanism of that is indeed mechanical. Lesser is the excuse, but it removes all consequence for no performance.  We all 'know' somehow we'd have been worse off if (x)... Which is not necessarily true because it is actually unknown.

To me it is the ultimate cop out. The easy way. And we know where the wide road goes.

In the end it is not winning. Because what we are supposedly defending will be all gone.
Permit me to explain, by "lesser evil" I mean less evil than what we have now, today. NOT merely less evil than the obviously more evil alternatives proffered by the opposition.
 
People are going to have to be eased into being free, unless they are mad enough to fight for it.
Few have that fire in their bellies.
The concept of making their own decisions, being responsible for outcomes which are not guaranteed, having to do on their own, for themselves (or even getting to know and trust those in their community to work with them to make things happen) terrifies most in this day and age.
One hundred sixty plus years of becoming increasingly removed from the concepts of this Republic will not be reversed peacefully overnight.
How God must weep at humans' folly! Stand fast! God knows what he is doing!
Seventeen Techniques for Truth Suppression

Of all tyrannies, a tyranny sincerely exercised for the good of its victims may be the most oppressive. It would be better to live under robber barons than under omnipotent moral busybodies. The robber baron's cruelty may sometimes sleep, his cupidity may at some point be satiated; but those who torment us for our own good will torment us without end for they do so with the approval of their own conscience.

C S Lewis

Offline roamer_1

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Re: Live Thread: Impeachment Acquital
« Reply #331 on: February 09, 2020, 06:29:02 pm »
Permit me to explain, by "lesser evil" I mean less evil than what we have now, today. NOT merely less evil than the obviously more evil alternatives proffered by the opposition.
 
People are going to have to be eased into being free, unless they are mad enough to fight for it.
Few have that fire in their bellies.
The concept of making their own decisions, being responsible for outcomes which are not guaranteed, having to do on their own, for themselves (or even getting to know and trust those in their community to work with them to make things happen) terrifies most in this day and age.
One hundred sixty plus years of becoming increasingly removed from the concepts of this Republic will not be reversed peacefully overnight.

I see. A managed ascent as it were - different in kind from voting for the lesser evil...

Your kind heart is noted... But I can think of no instance in all of history where that has been accomplished.  :shrug:

In the end, it is tyrants or the blood of patriots and tyrants. Liberty always comes the hard way.

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Re: Live Thread: Impeachment Acquital
« Reply #332 on: February 09, 2020, 06:29:20 pm »
Permit me to explain, by "lesser evil" I mean less evil than what we have now, today. NOT merely less evil than the obviously more evil alternatives proffered by the opposition.
 
People are going to have to be eased into being free, unless they are mad enough to fight for it.
Few have that fire in their bellies.
The concept of making their own decisions, being responsible for outcomes which are not guaranteed, having to do on their own, for themselves (or even getting to know and trust those in their community to work with them to make things happen) terrifies most in this day and age.
One hundred sixty plus years of becoming increasingly removed from the concepts of this Republic will not be reversed peacefully overnight.

"America is at that awkward stage. It's too late to work within the system, but too early to shoot the bastards."

--Claire Wolfe
For unvaccinated, we are looking at a winter of severe illness and death — if you’re unvaccinated — for themselves, their families, and the hospitals they’ll soon overwhelm. Sloe Joe Biteme 12/16
I will NOT comply.
 
Castillo del Cyber Autonomous Zone ~~~~~>                          :dontfeed:

Offline EdinVA

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Re: Live Thread: Impeachment Acquital
« Reply #333 on: February 09, 2020, 06:36:29 pm »
"America is at that awkward stage. It's too late to work within the system, but too early to shoot the bastards."

--Claire Wolfe

I like that.... True

Offline roamer_1

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Re: Live Thread: Impeachment Acquital
« Reply #334 on: February 09, 2020, 06:38:47 pm »
"America is at that awkward stage. It's too late to work within the system, but too early to shoot the bastards."

--Claire Wolfe

That's just about exactly where I am.

Offline Smokin Joe

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Re: Live Thread: Impeachment Acquital
« Reply #335 on: February 09, 2020, 06:42:10 pm »
I see. A managed ascent as it were - different in kind from voting for the lesser evil...

Your kind heart is noted... But I can think of no instance in all of history where that has been accomplished.  :shrug:

In the end, it is tyrants or the blood of patriots and tyrants. Liberty always comes the hard way.
We have accomplished what was not accomplished before as a people, So I won't rule it out.
What we do need to do is stress the beauty of freedom, something many fear, instead of crave.
Why else would they endure the increasingly totalitarian environment in which we live? At some point those chains are no longer a convenience and can't be marketed as such.

Maybe it will have to reach the point where, once again, the slaves revolt, but such is increasingly difficult to do. We still have to halt the slide before we can ascend the slippery slope...

How God must weep at humans' folly! Stand fast! God knows what he is doing!
Seventeen Techniques for Truth Suppression

Of all tyrannies, a tyranny sincerely exercised for the good of its victims may be the most oppressive. It would be better to live under robber barons than under omnipotent moral busybodies. The robber baron's cruelty may sometimes sleep, his cupidity may at some point be satiated; but those who torment us for our own good will torment us without end for they do so with the approval of their own conscience.

C S Lewis

Offline Smokin Joe

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Re: Live Thread: Impeachment Acquital
« Reply #336 on: February 09, 2020, 06:43:16 pm »
"America is at that awkward stage. It's too late to work within the system, but too early to shoot the bastards."

--Claire Wolfe
:beer: Great quote.
How God must weep at humans' folly! Stand fast! God knows what he is doing!
Seventeen Techniques for Truth Suppression

Of all tyrannies, a tyranny sincerely exercised for the good of its victims may be the most oppressive. It would be better to live under robber barons than under omnipotent moral busybodies. The robber baron's cruelty may sometimes sleep, his cupidity may at some point be satiated; but those who torment us for our own good will torment us without end for they do so with the approval of their own conscience.

C S Lewis

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Re: Live Thread: Impeachment Acquital
« Reply #337 on: February 09, 2020, 06:46:44 pm »
I knew I could find a way to get y'all to agree on something important! wink777
For unvaccinated, we are looking at a winter of severe illness and death — if you’re unvaccinated — for themselves, their families, and the hospitals they’ll soon overwhelm. Sloe Joe Biteme 12/16
I will NOT comply.
 
Castillo del Cyber Autonomous Zone ~~~~~>                          :dontfeed:

Offline roamer_1

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Re: Live Thread: Impeachment Acquital
« Reply #338 on: February 09, 2020, 06:57:58 pm »
We have accomplished what was not accomplished before as a people, So I won't rule it out.
What we do need to do is stress the beauty of freedom, something many fear, instead of crave.
Why else would they endure the increasingly totalitarian environment in which we live? At some point those chains are no longer a convenience and can't be marketed as such.

Maybe it will have to reach the point where, once again, the slaves revolt, but such is increasingly difficult to do. We still have to halt the slide before we can ascend the slippery slope...

That requires a line in the sand. "This far and no further". Standing firm on principle .
That is not what is happening now.

Anything else is liberty slipping away.

Offline Bigun

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Re: Live Thread: Impeachment Acquital
« Reply #339 on: February 09, 2020, 07:01:02 pm »
Permit me to explain, by "lesser evil" I mean less evil than what we have now, today. NOT merely less evil than the obviously more evil alternatives proffered by the opposition.
 
People are going to have to be eased into being free, unless they are mad enough to fight for it.
Few have that fire in their bellies.
The concept of making their own decisions, being responsible for outcomes which are not guaranteed, having to do on their own, for themselves (or even getting to know and trust those in their community to work with them to make things happen) terrifies most in this day and age.
One hundred sixty plus years of becoming increasingly removed from the concepts of this Republic will not be reversed peacefully overnight.

No sooner than you get the cyber words out of your mouth than proof emerges @Smokin Joe.

New High of 90% of Americans Satisfied With Personal Life
"I wish it need not have happened in my time," said Frodo.

"So do I," said Gandalf, "and so do all who live to see such times. But that is not for them to decide. All we have to decide is what to do with the time that is given us."
- J. R. R. Tolkien

Offline sneakypete

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Re: Live Thread: Impeachment Acquital
« Reply #340 on: February 09, 2020, 07:01:23 pm »
Listen to yourself! 

Hey! What are you doing reading my posts? Didn't you complain about me posting to you?

Besides,today is Sunday. Shouldn't you be on your knees in a pile of gravel all day contemplating your sins?
Anyone who isn't paranoid in 2021 just isn't thinking clearly!

Offline Smokin Joe

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Re: Live Thread: Impeachment Acquital
« Reply #341 on: February 09, 2020, 07:01:43 pm »
That requires a line in the sand. "This far and no further". Standing firm on principle .
That is not what is happening now.

Anything else is liberty slipping away.
We may have reached it in Virginia. The RKBA is that line, despite the raw encumbrances and infringements it has suffered. The threat is no longer just affecting a small minority of gun owners, but millions, and it has been clearly stated, repeatedly what the objective of the totalitarians is. Even so, It will take a new legislature and governor a full term to repeal all the crap and establish amnesties for those who otherwise were law abiding.

We will see what happens.
How God must weep at humans' folly! Stand fast! God knows what he is doing!
Seventeen Techniques for Truth Suppression

Of all tyrannies, a tyranny sincerely exercised for the good of its victims may be the most oppressive. It would be better to live under robber barons than under omnipotent moral busybodies. The robber baron's cruelty may sometimes sleep, his cupidity may at some point be satiated; but those who torment us for our own good will torment us without end for they do so with the approval of their own conscience.

C S Lewis

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Re: Live Thread: Impeachment Acquital
« Reply #342 on: February 09, 2020, 07:02:23 pm »
Hey! What are you doing reading my posts? Didn't you complain about me posting to you?

Besides,today is Sunday. Shouldn't you be on your knees in a pile of gravel all day contemplating your sins?

Ahem!   :chairbang:
For unvaccinated, we are looking at a winter of severe illness and death — if you’re unvaccinated — for themselves, their families, and the hospitals they’ll soon overwhelm. Sloe Joe Biteme 12/16
I will NOT comply.
 
Castillo del Cyber Autonomous Zone ~~~~~>                          :dontfeed:

Online Lando Lincoln

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Re: Live Thread: Impeachment Acquital
« Reply #343 on: February 09, 2020, 07:04:09 pm »
Ahem!   :chairbang:

It made me laugh.  Does that make me a bad person? 
There are some among us who live in rooms of experience we can never enter.
John Steinbeck

Offline roamer_1

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Re: Live Thread: Impeachment Acquital
« Reply #344 on: February 09, 2020, 07:11:09 pm »
We may have reached it in Virginia. The RKBA is that line, despite the raw encumbrances and infringements it has suffered. The threat is no longer just affecting a small minority of gun owners, but millions, and it has been clearly stated, repeatedly what the objective of the totalitarians is. Even so, It will take a new legislature and governor a full term to repeal all the crap and establish amnesties for those who otherwise were law abiding.

We will see what happens.

That's right. This could be a opportunity, if Virginians are worth their salt, which I dearly hope is true.
 :0001:

Offline berdie

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Re: Live Thread: Impeachment Acquital
« Reply #345 on: February 09, 2020, 07:14:42 pm »
"America is at that awkward stage. It's too late to work within the system, but too early to shoot the bastards."

--Claire Wolfe



That is a great and on the mark quote.

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Re: Live Thread: Impeachment Acquital
« Reply #346 on: February 09, 2020, 07:22:48 pm »
It made me laugh.  Does that make me a bad person?

I laughed too.  Right before I picked up the chair...  888mouth
For unvaccinated, we are looking at a winter of severe illness and death — if you’re unvaccinated — for themselves, their families, and the hospitals they’ll soon overwhelm. Sloe Joe Biteme 12/16
I will NOT comply.
 
Castillo del Cyber Autonomous Zone ~~~~~>                          :dontfeed:

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Re: Live Thread: Impeachment Acquital
« Reply #347 on: February 09, 2020, 07:24:32 pm »


That is a great and on the mark quote.

The argument isn't really about left vs right, or Dem vs Rep, but...is it too late to work within the system?
For unvaccinated, we are looking at a winter of severe illness and death — if you’re unvaccinated — for themselves, their families, and the hospitals they’ll soon overwhelm. Sloe Joe Biteme 12/16
I will NOT comply.
 
Castillo del Cyber Autonomous Zone ~~~~~>                          :dontfeed:

Offline roamer_1

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Re: Live Thread: Impeachment Acquital
« Reply #348 on: February 09, 2020, 07:57:22 pm »
The argument isn't really about left vs right, or Dem vs Rep, but...is it too late to work within the system?

Probably. Unless the Right actually stands for what it believes in.

Offline berdie

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Re: Live Thread: Impeachment Acquital
« Reply #349 on: February 09, 2020, 08:01:43 pm »
The argument isn't really about left vs right, or Dem vs Rep, but...is it too late to work within the system?




I don't know. I hope we can still work within the system. It's a good system that has led to the success of our country.

But the acrimony is a little unsettling. I fear there is no return at this point.