Author Topic: Live Thread: Impeachment Trial Day 10  (Read 6998 times)

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Online mystery-ak

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Live Thread: Impeachment Trial Day 10
« on: January 31, 2020, 01:44:19 pm »
Hopefully this ends today
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Offline Cyber Liberty

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Re: Live Thread: Impeachment Trial Day 10
« Reply #1 on: January 31, 2020, 03:07:14 pm »
 :2popcorn:
For unvaccinated, we are looking at a winter of severe illness and death — if you’re unvaccinated — for themselves, their families, and the hospitals they’ll soon overwhelm. Sloe Joe Biteme 12/16
I will NOT comply.
 
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Offline Snarknado

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Re: Live Thread: Impeachment Trial Day 10
« Reply #2 on: January 31, 2020, 03:17:00 pm »
I'm still nervous - I don't see how everyone can be so sure Roberts won't break a tie on witnesses? I get that he'd like to avoid taking sides, but if the witness vote is in his hands, how does abstaining get him off the hook? The media will certainly characterize it as siding with repubs.
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Offline Bigun

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Re: Live Thread: Impeachment Trial Day 10
« Reply #3 on: January 31, 2020, 03:22:22 pm »
Hopefully this ends today

 :yowsa:  :amen:

In a sane world it would!
"I wish it need not have happened in my time," said Frodo.

"So do I," said Gandalf, "and so do all who live to see such times. But that is not for them to decide. All we have to decide is what to do with the time that is given us."
- J. R. R. Tolkien

Offline Bigun

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Re: Live Thread: Impeachment Trial Day 10
« Reply #4 on: January 31, 2020, 03:24:02 pm »
I'm still nervous - I don't see how everyone can be so sure Roberts won't break a tie on witnesses? I get that he'd like to avoid taking sides, but if the witness vote is in his hands, how does abstaining get him off the hook? The media will certainly characterize it as siding with repubs.

The CJ has no standing to vote on anything in the Senate. It's a separation of powers thing!
"I wish it need not have happened in my time," said Frodo.

"So do I," said Gandalf, "and so do all who live to see such times. But that is not for them to decide. All we have to decide is what to do with the time that is given us."
- J. R. R. Tolkien

Offline Cyber Liberty

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Re: Live Thread: Impeachment Trial Day 10
« Reply #5 on: January 31, 2020, 03:31:47 pm »
The CJ has no standing to vote on anything in the Senate. It's a separation of powers thing!

It's not necessary to have a tie breaker on a Motion.  If it's 50/50 the Motion fails as surely as if the count was 40/60.  Roberts will not be asked to break a tie today.
For unvaccinated, we are looking at a winter of severe illness and death — if you’re unvaccinated — for themselves, their families, and the hospitals they’ll soon overwhelm. Sloe Joe Biteme 12/16
I will NOT comply.
 
Castillo del Cyber Autonomous Zone ~~~~~>                          :dontfeed:

Offline Bigun

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Re: Live Thread: Impeachment Trial Day 10
« Reply #6 on: January 31, 2020, 03:37:26 pm »
It's not necessary to have a tie breaker on a Motion.  If it's 50/50 the Motion fails as surely as if the count was 40/60.  Roberts will not be asked to break a tie today.

 :thumbsup: :thumbsup: :thumbsup:
"I wish it need not have happened in my time," said Frodo.

"So do I," said Gandalf, "and so do all who live to see such times. But that is not for them to decide. All we have to decide is what to do with the time that is given us."
- J. R. R. Tolkien

Offline tarheelboy

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Re: Live Thread: Impeachment Trial Day 10
« Reply #7 on: January 31, 2020, 03:42:30 pm »
Wonder if Nadler is a) in attendance today and b) be allowed to speak if he is there.

Offline Cyber Liberty

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Re: Live Thread: Impeachment Trial Day 10
« Reply #8 on: January 31, 2020, 03:50:33 pm »
Wonder if Nadler is a) in attendance today and b) be allowed to speak if he is there.

Welcome to TBR, @tarheelboy

I wonder about Waddler, too.  Apparently seating him toward the end of the table didn't keep him from outrunning Schitt to the podium, proving once again the most dangerous place in the world is between a Rat and a microphone.
For unvaccinated, we are looking at a winter of severe illness and death — if you’re unvaccinated — for themselves, their families, and the hospitals they’ll soon overwhelm. Sloe Joe Biteme 12/16
I will NOT comply.
 
Castillo del Cyber Autonomous Zone ~~~~~>                          :dontfeed:

Online mystery-ak

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Re: Live Thread: Impeachment Trial Day 10
« Reply #9 on: January 31, 2020, 03:52:14 pm »
Wonder if Nadler is a) in attendance today and b) be allowed to speak if he is there.

@tarheel
We'll find out at 1pm...this all could have been over by now if they would start in the morning..can't they work before 1 in the afternoon....

btw Welcome to TBR
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Offline tarheelboy

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Re: Live Thread: Impeachment Trial Day 10
« Reply #10 on: January 31, 2020, 03:56:32 pm »
Glad to be here!

Offline Snarknado

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Re: Live Thread: Impeachment Trial Day 10
« Reply #11 on: January 31, 2020, 03:59:54 pm »
The CJ has no standing to vote on anything in the Senate. It's a separation of powers thing!

The constitution doesn't say outright one way or the other, but the CJ did cast tie breaking votes in Johnson's trial. There is of course no tie on conviction - it takes 2/3 of the senators present. Common sense suggests that the constitution's use of the term "presides" include the tie breaking vote the VP has in presiding over other Senate business.
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Offline don-o

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Re: Live Thread: Impeachment Trial Day 10
« Reply #12 on: January 31, 2020, 04:16:35 pm »
I'm still nervous - I don't see how everyone can be so sure Roberts won't break a tie on witnesses? I get that he'd like to avoid taking sides, but if the witness vote is in his hands, how does abstaining get him off the hook? The media will certainly characterize it as siding with repubs.

I dunno. But, the obvious move for the Pubs would be motion for mistrial.

Offline Maj. Bill Martin

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Re: Live Thread: Impeachment Trial Day 10
« Reply #13 on: January 31, 2020, 04:41:32 pm »
The constitution doesn't say outright one way or the other, but the CJ did cast tie breaking votes in Johnson's trial. There is of course no tie on conviction - it takes 2/3 of the senators present. Common sense suggests that the constitution's use of the term "presides" include the tie breaking vote the VP has in presiding over other Senate business.

I actually agree with this.  If the CJ's role was to be purely ministerial, without any independent exercise of judgment or authority, then why didn't the Constitution just let the Majority Leader run things?  Why bring in the Chief Justice if he's not supposed to exercise some independent judgement?

I'm not saying that I want him to do that -- I hope he doesn't.  I'm just saying that from a purely objective legal perspective, he probably should.

I suppose the argument on the flip side is that "the Senate" is supposed to decide the rules for impeachment, and Robert's Rules are part of the the Senate's standing rules.  And under Robert's Rules, a tie vote fails.  That particular rule would not be necessary if all ties had to be broken.  Therefore, you could argue that ties should not be broken unless specifically stated elsewhere, and there isn't anything saying that the CJ should cast tiebreaking votes.

Maybe I've just argued myself into the opposite opinion....

Crap.

Offline don-o

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Re: Live Thread: Impeachment Trial Day 10
« Reply #14 on: January 31, 2020, 04:58:13 pm »


Maybe I've just argued myself into the opposite opinion....

Crap.

Thinking a thing all the way through can take us there. Yes? I say that Robert's Rules is the governing authority here.

Offline Cyber Liberty

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Re: Live Thread: Impeachment Trial Day 10
« Reply #15 on: January 31, 2020, 05:02:24 pm »
Thinking a thing all the way through can take us there. Yes? I say that Robert's Rules is the governing authority here.

There isn't a Parliamentary Rule anywhere that says a tied vote is a vote in the affirmative.  A Motion made has the burden of the majority, and a tie vote clearly falls short.  There will be no ties requiring breaking today, or tomorrow. 
For unvaccinated, we are looking at a winter of severe illness and death — if you’re unvaccinated — for themselves, their families, and the hospitals they’ll soon overwhelm. Sloe Joe Biteme 12/16
I will NOT comply.
 
Castillo del Cyber Autonomous Zone ~~~~~>                          :dontfeed:

Offline Snarknado

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Re: Live Thread: Impeachment Trial Day 10
« Reply #16 on: January 31, 2020, 05:07:54 pm »
Thinking a thing all the way through can take us there. Yes? I say that Robert's Rules is the governing authority here.

I would think the same basic set of Senate rules would apply to impeachment as any other Senate business unless specific exceptions are passed, just with the CJ filling in for the VP. Keep in mind that a non-POTUS impeachment is presided over by the VP exactly as any other business.

Much as I hope you guys are right, I'm far from convinced.
« Last Edit: January 31, 2020, 05:09:36 pm by Snarknado »
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Online mystery-ak

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Re: Live Thread: Impeachment Trial Day 10
« Reply #17 on: January 31, 2020, 05:08:20 pm »
Bo Snerdley
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·
1h
Romney to vote in favor of impeachment witnesses
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Re: Live Thread: Impeachment Trial Day 10
« Reply #18 on: January 31, 2020, 05:09:10 pm »
Victoria Toensing
@VicToensing
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22m
You can’t make this up. Dem House Manager Hakeem Jeffries claimed Thurs  that @HRC
 paying former British spy to get dirt from Russians to frame @realDonaldTrump
 in the dossier was ok because she “paid” for it.  Can POTUS write a check to Zelensky?
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Re: Live Thread: Impeachment Trial Day 10
« Reply #19 on: January 31, 2020, 05:09:37 pm »
Elizabeth Harrington
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2h
This is ridiculous

Joe Biden claims this was "not a partisan impeachment"

"Even if it's a party line vote"

This impeachment was so partisan, you lost a member of your own party!
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Re: Live Thread: Impeachment Trial Day 10
« Reply #20 on: January 31, 2020, 05:10:40 pm »
Nothing to do with impeachment but..

Quote
Daily Caller
@DailyCaller
·
35m
Failed Georgia gubernatorial candidate Stacey Abrams says she plans to be elected President in the future
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Re: Live Thread: Impeachment Trial Day 10
« Reply #21 on: January 31, 2020, 05:11:12 pm »
Sen. Marsha Blackburn
@MarshaBlackburn
·
2h
We’ve already heard from more than a dozen different witnesses in 192 videos and reviewed more than 28,000 pages of documents.
 
It’s time to put impeachment behind us.
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Re: Live Thread: Impeachment Trial Day 10
« Reply #22 on: January 31, 2020, 05:11:41 pm »
Steve Guest
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3h
Democrat Senator Mazie Hirono who has a textbook case of Trump Derangement Syndrom on the White House case against impeachment: "I don't care what kind of nice, little, legal, constitutional defenses that they came up with"
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Re: Live Thread: Impeachment Trial Day 10
« Reply #23 on: January 31, 2020, 05:12:05 pm »
Daily Caller
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·
59m
Chuck Schumer:

"If my Republican colleagues refused to even consider witnesses and documents in this trial, this country is headed toward the greatest cover-up since Watergate."
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Re: Live Thread: Impeachment Trial Day 10
« Reply #24 on: January 31, 2020, 05:13:19 pm »
Steven Portnoy
@stevenportnoy
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46m
WHAT'S SCHUMER'S PLAN?

He says he has to discuss it with his caucus, but Schumer says he will do what he can to ensure that "the American people ... hear what every senator thinks and why they're voting the way they're voting."
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