Author Topic: Our Nation Is Paying for Trump’s Refusal to Be Presidential  (Read 1964 times)

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Offline Wingnut

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Re: Our Nation Is Paying for Trump’s Refusal to Be Presidential
« Reply #25 on: January 23, 2020, 06:30:55 pm »
Really, must I choose?  :pondering:

I choose neither, thanks.

If you choose not to decide
You still have made a choice.

And you chose poorly.
I am just a Technicolor Dream Cat riding this kaleidoscope of life.

Offline Cyber Liberty

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Re: Our Nation Is Paying for Trump’s Refusal to Be Presidential
« Reply #26 on: January 23, 2020, 06:33:20 pm »
[H]owever much it may fall in with the political theories of certain statesmen and jurists, to deny the existence of a common law belonging to, and applicable to the nation in ordinary cases, no one has as yet been bold enough to assert, that the power of impeachment is limited to offences positively defined in the statute book of the Union, as impeachable high crimes and misdemeanours.

---Justice Joseph Story, from Commentaries on the Constitution, 1833.

I believe "Maladministration" was discussed and rejected in the framing of the Constitution, because it could literally mean "We don't like his policies."
For unvaccinated, we are looking at a winter of severe illness and death — if you’re unvaccinated — for themselves, their families, and the hospitals they’ll soon overwhelm. Sloe Joe Biteme 12/16
I will NOT comply.
 
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Online roamer_1

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Re: Our Nation Is Paying for Trump’s Refusal to Be Presidential
« Reply #27 on: January 23, 2020, 06:38:26 pm »
If you choose not to decide
You still have made a choice.

And you chose poorly.

No, I chose well. I have no dog in this hunt.

Offline Cyber Liberty

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Re: Our Nation Is Paying for Trump’s Refusal to Be Presidential
« Reply #28 on: January 23, 2020, 06:39:39 pm »
No, I chose well. I have no dog in this hunt.

"You may not be interested in the government, but the government is interested in you."
For unvaccinated, we are looking at a winter of severe illness and death — if you’re unvaccinated — for themselves, their families, and the hospitals they’ll soon overwhelm. Sloe Joe Biteme 12/16
I will NOT comply.
 
Castillo del Cyber Autonomous Zone ~~~~~>                          :dontfeed:

Offline aligncare

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Re: Our Nation Is Paying for Trump’s Refusal to Be Presidential
« Reply #29 on: January 23, 2020, 06:48:35 pm »
ap·a·thy
/ˈapəTHē/
noun
1. lack of interest, enthusiasm, or concern.

The main symptom of apathy is a lack of motivation to do, complete, or accomplish anything. You may also experience low energy levels. You may have diminished emotions, motivation, and willingness to act. ... You may exhibit a lack of effort, planning, and emotional response.Nov 1, 2016

https://www.healthline.com

Online roamer_1

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Re: Our Nation Is Paying for Trump’s Refusal to Be Presidential
« Reply #30 on: January 23, 2020, 06:49:30 pm »
"You may not be interested in the government, but the government is interested in you."

How is that any different than ever?

Online roamer_1

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Re: Our Nation Is Paying for Trump’s Refusal to Be Presidential
« Reply #31 on: January 23, 2020, 06:51:10 pm »
ap·a·thy
/ˈapəTHē/
noun
1. lack of interest, enthusiasm, or concern.

The main symptom of apathy is a lack of motivation to do, complete, or accomplish anything. You may also experience low energy levels. You may have diminished emotions, motivation, and willingness to act. ... You may exhibit a lack of effort, planning, and emotional response.Nov 1, 2016

https://www.healthline.com

Refusing to support that which is counter to one's principles is not apathy.

Offline Cyber Liberty

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Re: Our Nation Is Paying for Trump’s Refusal to Be Presidential
« Reply #32 on: January 23, 2020, 06:53:30 pm »
How is that any different than ever?

Never, in the short time I've been around.   :shrug:

I guess what I was thinking of was, "can anybody just wash their hands of it?" 
For unvaccinated, we are looking at a winter of severe illness and death — if you’re unvaccinated — for themselves, their families, and the hospitals they’ll soon overwhelm. Sloe Joe Biteme 12/16
I will NOT comply.
 
Castillo del Cyber Autonomous Zone ~~~~~>                          :dontfeed:

Online roamer_1

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Re: Our Nation Is Paying for Trump’s Refusal to Be Presidential
« Reply #33 on: January 23, 2020, 06:55:00 pm »
Never, in the short time I've been around.   :shrug:

I guess what I was thinking of was, "can anybody just wash their hands of it?"

How can one not? It's a sh*t-show, no matter which way.

Offline Cyber Liberty

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Re: Our Nation Is Paying for Trump’s Refusal to Be Presidential
« Reply #34 on: January 23, 2020, 06:56:40 pm »
How can one not? It's a sh*t-show, no matter which way.

That may be, but I'll still sell a lot of popcorn.  Sh*t shows still sell.  :2popcorn:
For unvaccinated, we are looking at a winter of severe illness and death — if you’re unvaccinated — for themselves, their families, and the hospitals they’ll soon overwhelm. Sloe Joe Biteme 12/16
I will NOT comply.
 
Castillo del Cyber Autonomous Zone ~~~~~>                          :dontfeed:

Online roamer_1

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Re: Our Nation Is Paying for Trump’s Refusal to Be Presidential
« Reply #35 on: January 23, 2020, 06:57:29 pm »
That may be, but I'll still sell a lot of popcorn.  Sh*t shows still sell.  :2popcorn:

Sure. But they sure as hell don't govern worth a crap.

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Re: Our Nation Is Paying for Trump’s Refusal to Be Presidential
« Reply #36 on: January 23, 2020, 07:15:07 pm »
I suppose that Bubba Clinton, the Liberal God figure, 'acted Presidentially'. Was the anti-American, pro-Islam, Christian hater, Obama presidential?

What the Liberals are upset about of course, is that the don't have the drunk criminal felon Hillary who of course is very Presidential, in their minds.

If a Republican must be President, then it should be a George Bush/Jeb Bush type who the Liberals can kick around like a soccer ball with no push back and with impunity. They want a milquetoast whipping boy who will take his daily media beating and stay silent about it.

Democrats are not used to Republicans pushing back and they don't know how to deal with it. Liberals don't have any Defense plays in their playbook because they have never needed them before Trump. They only know Offense, all day, everyday, all the time.
You cannot "COEXIST" with people who want to kill you.
If they kill their own with no conscience, there is nothing to stop them from killing you.
Rational fear and anger at vicious murderous Islamic terrorists is the same as irrational antisemitism, according to the Leftists.

Offline Maj. Bill Martin

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Re: Our Nation Is Paying for Trump’s Refusal to Be Presidential
« Reply #37 on: January 23, 2020, 07:15:40 pm »
If you choose not to decide
You still have made a choice.

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Offline EasyAce

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Re: Our Nation Is Paying for Trump’s Refusal to Be Presidential
« Reply #38 on: January 23, 2020, 07:17:21 pm »
I believe "Maladministration" was discussed and rejected in the framing of the Constitution, because it could literally mean "We don't like his policies."
"Maladministration" seems to have been rejected not because it could mean (literally or otherwise), "We don't like his policies," but because James Madison thought it too vague. It was George Mason who took that objection and then suggested "high crimes and misdemeanors against the state" in its stead, modified to "high crimes and misdemeanors."

Says the Constitutional Rights Foundation from there:

Most of the framers knew the phrase well. Since 1386, the English parliament had used “high crimes and misdemeanors” as one of the grounds to impeach officials of the crown. Officials accused of “high crimes and misdemeanors” were accused of offenses as varied as misappropriating government funds, appointing unfit subordinates, not prosecuting cases, not spending money allocated by Parliament, promoting themselves ahead of more deserving candidates, threatening a grand jury, disobeying an order from Parliament, arresting a man to keep him from running for Parliament, losing a ship by neglecting to moor it, helping “suppress petitions to the King to call a Parliament,” granting warrants without cause, and bribery. Some of these charges were crimes. Others were not. The one common denominator in all these accusations was that the official had somehow abused the power of his office and was unfit to serve.

(Emphasis added--EA.)

Two Congressional Research Service attorneys (Jared P. Cole, Todd Garvey), wrote this in 2015:

Impeachable conduct does not appear to be limited to criminal behavior. Congress has identified three general types of conduct that constitute grounds for impeachment, although these categories should not be understood as exhaustive: (1) improperly exceeding or abusing the powers of the office; (2) behavior incompatible with the function and purpose of the office; and (3) misusing the office for an improper purpose or for personal gain . . .

. . . Is Impeachment Limited to Criminal Acts?

The Constitution describes the grounds of impeachment as“treason, bribery, or other high Crimes and Misdemeanors.” While treason and bribery are relatively well-defined terms, the meaning of “high Crimes and Misdemeanors” is not defined in the Constitution or in statute and remains somewhat opaque. It was adopted from the English practice of parliamentary impeachments, which appears to have been directed against individuals accused of crimes against the state and encompassed offenses beyond traditional criminal law. Some have argued that only criminal acts are impeachable offenses under the United States Constitution; impeachment is therefore inappropriate for non-criminal activity. In support of this assertion, one might note that the debate on impeachable offenses during the Constitutional Convention in 1787 indicates that criminal conduct was encompassed in the “high crimes and misdemeanors” standard. The notion that only criminal conduct can constitute sufficient grounds for impeachment does not, however, comport with historical practice. Alexander Hamilton, in justifying placement of the power to try impeachments in the Senate, described impeachable offenses as arising from “the misconduct of public men, or in other words from the abuse or violation of some public trust."

Such offenses were “political, as they relate chiefly to injuries done immediately to the society itself.” According to this reasoning, impeachable conduct could include behavior that violates an official’s duty to the country, even if such conduct is not necessarily a prosecutable offense. Indeed, in the past both houses of Congress have given the phrase “high Crimes and Misdemeanors” a broad reading, “finding that impeachable offenses need not be limited to criminal conduct.”

(Emphases added--EA.)

Wrote Erick Trickey in Smithsonian Magazine in October 2017:

Americans have debated the meaning of this decidedly open-ended phrase ever since. But its inclusion, as well as the guidance the Founders left regarding its interpretation, offers more protection against a dangerous executive power than many realize.

Of all the Founders who debated impeachment, three Virginians—[George] Mason,[James] Madison and delegate Edmund Randolph—did the most to set down a vision of when Congress should remove a president from office. Though the men had very different positions on the Constitution, their debates in Philadelphia and at Virginia’s ratifying convention in Richmond produced crucial definitions of an impeachable offense. And their ultimate agreement—that a president should be impeached for abuses of power that subvert the Constitution, the integrity of government, or the rule of law—remains essential to the debates we’re having today, 230 years later.

. . . “Shall any man be above justice?” Mason asked. “Shall that man be above it who can commit the most extensive injustice?” A presidential candidate might bribe the electors to gain the presidency, Mason suggested. “Shall the man who has practiced corruption, and by that means procured his appointment in the first instance, be suffered to escape punishment by repeating his guilt?”

Madison argued that the Constitution needed a provision “for defending the community against the incapacity, negligence, or perfidy of the Chief Magistrate.” Waiting to vote him out of office in a general election wasn’t good enough. “He might pervert his administration into a scheme of peculation”— embezzlement—“or oppression,” Madison warned. “He might betray his trust to foreign powers.”

Randolph agreed on both these fronts. “The Executive will have great opportunities of abusing his power,” he warned, “particularly in time of war, when the military force, and in some respects the public money, will be in his hands.” The delegates voted, 8 states to 2, to make the executive removable by impeachment.

. . . Unfortunately for everyone who’s argued since about what an impeachable offense is, the convention’s Committee on Style and Revision, which was supposed to improve the draft Constitution’s language without changing its meaning, deleted (from the "high crimes and misdemeanors" clause) the phrase “against the United States.” Without that phrase, which explained what constitutes “high crimes,” many Americans came to believe that “high crimes” literally meant only crimes identified in criminal law.
« Last Edit: January 23, 2020, 07:18:40 pm by EasyAce »


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Offline Maj. Bill Martin

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Re: Our Nation Is Paying for Trump’s Refusal to Be Presidential
« Reply #39 on: January 23, 2020, 07:21:21 pm »
Really, must I choose?  :pondering:

I choose neither, thanks.

That works for you because you're not a professional writer.  But if you are a professional writer, and are going to write an article about one or the other, you have to make a choice by definition.  And Goldberg made his.

Offline sneakypete

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Re: Our Nation Is Paying for Trump’s Refusal to Be Presidential
« Reply #40 on: January 23, 2020, 07:21:28 pm »
What EXACTLY has Trump done that could be voiced or written as a CHARGEABLE CRIME?  Did he wipe himself in the wrong direction?  :silly:

@conservativevoter

That's easy. His feet stink and he doan luv Jesus enough!
Anyone who isn't paranoid in 2021 just isn't thinking clearly!

Online roamer_1

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Re: Our Nation Is Paying for Trump’s Refusal to Be Presidential
« Reply #41 on: January 23, 2020, 07:23:36 pm »
That works for you because you're not a professional writer.  But if you are a professional writer, and are going to write an article about one or the other, you have to make a choice by definition.

I don't think that is true.

Offline sneakypete

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Re: Our Nation Is Paying for Trump’s Refusal to Be Presidential
« Reply #42 on: January 23, 2020, 07:24:15 pm »
No, I chose well. I have no dog in this hunt.

@roamer_1

So,nothing that happens to America is of any concern to you because you don't like the President.

Good to know.
Anyone who isn't paranoid in 2021 just isn't thinking clearly!

Online roamer_1

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Re: Our Nation Is Paying for Trump’s Refusal to Be Presidential
« Reply #43 on: January 23, 2020, 07:25:53 pm »
@roamer_1

So,nothing that happens to America is of any concern to you because you don't like the President.

Good to know.

@sneakypete

Of course many things concern me.
And you omitted that I don't like the Dems either.

Offline Maj. Bill Martin

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Re: Our Nation Is Paying for Trump’s Refusal to Be Presidential
« Reply #44 on: January 23, 2020, 07:26:14 pm »
I don't think that is true.

Okay, I do.  If you're writing an article, you have to pick a topic.

Feel free to disagree.

Offline Wingnut

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Re: Our Nation Is Paying for Trump’s Refusal to Be Presidential
« Reply #45 on: January 23, 2020, 07:26:52 pm »
@conservativevoter

That's easy. His feet stink and he doan luv Jesus enough!

I thought was because his mother was a hamster and his father smelt of elderberries?
I am just a Technicolor Dream Cat riding this kaleidoscope of life.

Offline Absalom

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Re: Our Nation Is Paying for Trump’s Refusal to Be Presidential
« Reply #46 on: January 23, 2020, 07:27:00 pm »
A refusal implies a choice is available and one knows the difference.
Given his behavior since toddler days what makes anyone believe
that Trump knows what "Presidential Behavior" is???

Online roamer_1

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Re: Our Nation Is Paying for Trump’s Refusal to Be Presidential
« Reply #47 on: January 23, 2020, 07:28:48 pm »
Okay, I do.  If you're writing an article, you have to pick a topic.

Feel free to disagree.

Certainly you have to pick a topic. But the very heart of true journalism is to set your feelings aside and report the facts. Not that I am saying that occurred this time (the OP), but I think it not only possible, but necessary to resurrect.


Offline sneakypete

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Re: Our Nation Is Paying for Trump’s Refusal to Be Presidential
« Reply #48 on: January 23, 2020, 07:38:09 pm »
I thought was because his mother was a hamster and his father smelt of elderberries?

@Wingnut

I am fairly certain those would be seen as positives by the Dims.
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Re: Our Nation Is Paying for Trump’s Refusal to Be Presidential
« Reply #49 on: January 23, 2020, 07:55:52 pm »
A refusal implies a choice is available and one knows the difference.
Given his behavior since toddler days what makes anyone believe
that Trump knows what "Presidential Behavior" is???
No one knows the difference. Who knows what 'Presidential Behavior' is?
Look at past Democrat Presidents over the last fifty years and name one who was 'Presidential'.
You cannot "COEXIST" with people who want to kill you.
If they kill their own with no conscience, there is nothing to stop them from killing you.
Rational fear and anger at vicious murderous Islamic terrorists is the same as irrational antisemitism, according to the Leftists.