Author Topic: Doug Collins: House Democratic leader's remark about letting Trump 'prove innocence' should alarm Am  (Read 1142 times)

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Offline roamer_1

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So why the claim that this is not a disregard for due process?


Because the grand jury phase leans toward the prosecutor, and is seldom about the same evidence required in court.

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Do you even realize a lot of the 'due process' we have cemented within our Constitution is not about a trial?  Yet you give short shrift to any of that.

Because topically, our discussion is about procedural due process. And because the rest is incidental. If he feels he has been harmed, he is welcome to sue, just like anyone else.

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Naw, what is amazing to me is your nonchalant attitude in what is happening to the systematic destruction of this country by not standing up against those who wish to destroy it.

Standing up to what? for what?

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You have already made it clear you believe the war is lost.  You have said that many times.

Everything you say has that as a statement that you intend to do nothing to help this republic.

No, I will happily die for this Republic.  But I will not fight at all against the communists in favor of the globalists. I've no dog in that hunt. When you're done bitch-slappin and screaming at eachother and this whole catfight is over, come wake me up and we'll figger out what's next.

If I am lucky, they'll cancel each other out.

Online IsailedawayfromFR

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Because the grand jury phase leans toward the prosecutor, and is seldom about the same evidence required in court.
Wrong.

Hoyer made the comments during the indictment phase and says the accused must be proving himself not guilty.

Everybody in America should be aghast at that.
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Standing up to what? for what?
  That should be your tagline, shouldn't it?  Accurate description of your beliefs.

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No, I will happily die for this Republic.  But I will not fight at all against the communists in favor of the globalists. I've no dog in that hunt. When you're done bitch-slappin and screaming at eachother and this whole catfight is over, come wake me up and we'll figger out what's next.

If I am lucky, they'll cancel each other out.
So you are one of the 'woke' people.

And there just may not be an America to wake up after you sleep it off.

I do not depend upon luck like you do apparently.
No punishment, in my opinion, is too great, for the man who can build his greatness upon his country's ruin~  George Washington

Offline Smokin Joe

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Wrong.

Hoyer made the comments during the indictment phase and says the accused must be proving himself not guilty.

Everybody in America should be aghast at that.  That should be your tagline, shouldn't it?  Accurate description of your beliefs.
So you are one of the 'woke' people.

And there just may not be an America to wake up after you sleep it off.

I do not depend upon luck like you do apparently.
Hoyer and others have made comments which would turn American concepts of jurisprudence on their heads. They're wrong, and it has been pointed out, but the only trial which has happened is in the court of public opinion, and the Dems are already losing that, even among their own. It took threats of withholding DNC support for reelection to herd those cat in line this time. Think about that.

As for @roamer_1 and others like us who can't see what to stand for aside from principle right now, we're here, we're making our opinions known. That, at least gives people a mark to shoot for, and the awareness that we want to be free of any human masters, no matter what Party they belong to, no matter what their vision of world domination, be it corporate or communistic or Islamist. None of those appeal, and if voices crying forth from the wilderness about Liberty aren't enough to remind you that being beholden to any master except Our Creator is slavery, by degrees and varying benevolence, but nonetheless bondage, then you aren't seeing that those reminders are a contribution to the fight.

It boils down to what goal you are fighting for, and while principle gives a clear mark, fighting solely for one Party over another is just changing the fit of your chains, at least as it stands.
No one here said they would not fight, it is only a question of for whom and for what.

As for Hoyer, he is another marginal Liberal looking for relevance, trying to control the same optics the rest of the Dems are, and falling short in principle. Enough Americans should know he's wrong, and folks like @roamer_1 and, for that matter, most of us here, will remind anyone that the presumption of innocence is a paramount principle of American Jurisprudence. Beyond that, pass the popcorn.
How God must weep at humans' folly! Stand fast! God knows what he is doing!
Seventeen Techniques for Truth Suppression

Of all tyrannies, a tyranny sincerely exercised for the good of its victims may be the most oppressive. It would be better to live under robber barons than under omnipotent moral busybodies. The robber baron's cruelty may sometimes sleep, his cupidity may at some point be satiated; but those who torment us for our own good will torment us without end for they do so with the approval of their own conscience.

C S Lewis

Offline roamer_1

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Hoyer made the comments during the indictment phase and says the accused must be proving himself not guilty.

Everybody in America should be aghast at that.


Yes, I am aghast that some moron making words has you so verklempt. Does that count?

I'll agree with your point on that, but not with your emphasis.

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That should be your tagline, shouldn't it?  Accurate description of your beliefs.


Ooh, saucy! Almost as good as 'I know you are but what am I?'

Sorry... 'Because Murica!' ...while you reach in the back of your pants to throw more poo at the monkey house is not a convincing argument.

If you'd care to express a coherent thought, try again... Perhaps you'll be able to convince me of the rectitude of your cause.

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So you are one of the 'woke' people.

LOL! In the context, I would be a 'going back to sleep' people... Don't quit your day job.

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And there just may not be an America to wake up after you sleep it off.

I do not depend upon luck like you do apparently.

Speak to me of principle things... Raise a banner over timeless truths... Then I will hear the clarion call.

That your angry buffoon of a president got impeached for 'being a meanie' by sh*t-for-brains liberals doesn't even come close. The 'Rodney Dangerfield Goes to Washington' humor of it is simply sophomoric, and ALL THE DRAMA!!! Like an angst driven teenage emo girl... Sorry! It just doesn't qualify.

I don't see fervent patriotism wrapped in Old Glory.
I see a cat fight between two drunk chicks behind a bar.
Meh.

Offline roamer_1

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Hoyer and others have made comments which would turn American concepts of jurisprudence on their heads. They're wrong, and it has been pointed out, but the only trial which has happened is in the court of public opinion, and the Dems are already losing that, even among their own. It took threats of withholding DNC support for reelection to herd those cat in line this time. Think about that.

That's right. Much ado about nothing. Whining and crying and throwing dirt in the air.
The trial will come. His time for defense with it... With as certain an acquittal as can be predicted.
Ho-hum.

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As for @roamer_1 and others like us who can't see what to stand for aside from principle right now, we're here, we're making our opinions known. That, at least gives people a mark to shoot for, and the awareness that we want to be free of any human masters, no matter what Party they belong to, no matter what their vision of world domination, be it corporate or communistic or Islamist. None of those appeal, and if voices crying forth from the wilderness about Liberty aren't enough to remind you that being beholden to any master except Our Creator is slavery, by degrees and varying benevolence, but nonetheless bondage, then you aren't seeing that those reminders are a contribution to the fight.


Absolutely right. And brilliantly stated. Thank you @Smokin Joe  :beer:

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It boils down to what goal you are fighting for, and while principle gives a clear mark, fighting solely for one Party over another is just changing the fit of your chains, at least as it stands.
No one here said they would not fight, it is only a question of for whom and for what.

There it is. Most of this subject is bullcrap - Partisan beard-pulling with little in the cornbox, and even less to gain... And somehow, I am an heretic or a traitor, because I refuse to join in - Join a team I am not even a member of, purposefully, BECAUSE of useless shenanigans just like these...

It  has naught to do with liberty. It has naught to do with anything. I have honestly found no purpose in any of it.  :shrug:

Drama for drama's sake.

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As for Hoyer, he is another marginal Liberal looking for relevance, trying to control the same optics the rest of the Dems are, and falling short in principle. Enough Americans should know he's wrong, and folks like @roamer_1 and, for that matter, most of us here, will remind anyone that the presumption of innocence is a paramount principle of American Jurisprudence. Beyond that, pass the popcorn.

Without a doubt. Hoyer is an idiot, full of sound and fury, signifying nothing... But then, that seems to be going around.

 :beer: :patriot: :seeya:

Offline sneakypete

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One of the reasons for a public education system was to make sure people knew how their government was supposed to work. That was before the Leftists hijacked the same system to preach Marx.

@Smokin Joe

It's WHY the Soviet agents in the US had "take over the public school and university system" as their number 1 goal in the 1930's.
Anyone who isn't paranoid in 2021 just isn't thinking clearly!

Offline Absalom

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What is amazing is how all y'all get your panties in a wad over all this cockamamie drama.
Seriously... It's really soap opera worthy nonsense.
I remain comfortably numb to it all, and I would suppose the same from most of America.
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roamer, on the mark per usual.

When a Farce is being staged, the necessary ingredient for success is gales of laughter.
Instead we have mournful accusers confronting mystified defenders with an audience asleep.
Where are Oliver Hardy and Stan Laurel when they are truly needed???
Predict the curtain goes down on this dirge about 11 second after it rises!!!

Offline roamer_1

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roamer, on the mark per usual.

When a Farce is being staged, the necessary ingredient for success is gales of laughter.
Instead we have mournful accusers confronting mystified defenders with an audience asleep.
Where are Oliver Hardy and Stan Laurel when they are truly needed???
Predict the curtain goes down on this dirge about 11 second after it rises!!!

Thanks for that, @Absalom ... I am glad to know I am not the only one to find the whole tawdry show to be pedestrian.  :beer:

Online IsailedawayfromFR

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Hoyer and others have made comments which would turn American concepts of jurisprudence on their heads. They're wrong, and it has been pointed out, but the only trial which has happened is in the court of public opinion, and the Dems are already losing that, even among their own. It took threats of withholding DNC support for reelection to herd those cat in line this time. Think about that.
Hoyer made comments and you seem to dismiss them as somewhat wrong but irrelevant.  As the second in position in the House, his comments wield an inordinate amount of power.  As Doug Collins correctly points out, what he said should send shudders down the spine of all Americans.  The fact that Hoyer takes no rebuke for his statement speaks volumes about the power he has, and people should think about that.
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As for @roamer_1 and others like us who can't see what to stand for aside from principle right now, we're here, we're making our opinions known. That, at least gives people a mark to shoot for, and the awareness that we want to be free of any human masters, no matter what Party they belong to, no matter what their vision of world domination, be it corporate or communistic or Islamist. None of those appeal, and if voices crying forth from the wilderness about Liberty aren't enough to remind you that being beholden to any master except Our Creator is slavery, by degrees and varying benevolence, but nonetheless bondage, then you aren't seeing that those reminders are a contribution to the fight.
Of course all on this board wish to be free of human masters save a few obvious trolls.  That goes without saying those are principles we both agree on.

The member you speak of has already declared on many occasions his opinions that 'The War is Lost' and wishes to hide out in his secluded enclave to let others flesh out this country's problems.  Is that a sensible way to preserve this country?  I think not.  Pontificating opinions without actionable followups will not preserve us.  Leading and convincing others, even by small increments, is far better.

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It boils down to what goal you are fighting for, and while principle gives a clear mark, fighting solely for one Party over another is just changing the fit of your chains, at least as it stands.
No one here said they would not fight, it is only a question of for whom and for what.
It is never a party one should ever be fighting for, it is for principle and country.  If one party or person embraces patriotism and freedom as core principles, they or he should be supported. 

We have most of our problems in this land initiated by Democrats but tacitly supported by others by non-confrontation for the most part.  To continue this will destroy the country.

I will never look kindly on any who decide to sit on the sidelines watching instead of at least attempting to alter the landscape back to the original concepts laid down for our government and its relationship with the American people.

Nobody said it would be easy, as Benjamin Franklin said at the close of the Constitutional Convention "A Republic, if you can keep it".

As for fighting, I believe it is not for what as much as it is how.
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As for Hoyer, he is another marginal Liberal looking for relevance, trying to control the same optics the rest of the Dems are, and falling short in principle. Enough Americans should know he's wrong, and folks like @roamer_1 and, for that matter, most of us here, will remind anyone that the presumption of innocence is a paramount principle of American Jurisprudence. Beyond that, pass the popcorn.
As I had said, Hoyer is not just another marginal liberal.  He is second in the House and dictates policy for the majority there.

I do not cavalierly dismiss this seed he plants to erode our system of justice in this country, especially as the media, which can court public opinion far better than any other way, will distort this to Hoyer's benefit.
No punishment, in my opinion, is too great, for the man who can build his greatness upon his country's ruin~  George Washington