Coronavirus, comprehensive and updates discussion

[Bigun]

Throwing this out there

I want to know why Italy seems worse off than other countries...

1. Hundreds of thousands of imported Chinese workers and the attendant constant flights in and out of China.

2. Government-run healthcare system

3. higher average age than others.

For starters @mystery-ak

[Smokin Joe]

Throwing this out there

I want to know why Italy seems worse off than other countries...

High cholesterol is common. Similarly, High Blood Pressure, heart disease, and diabetes were present (one or more) in 99% of the population affected who died. Those are identifiable risk factors.

In addition, the average age of those who died in Italy was 79.5 years old, by the last data I have seen.

With that in mind, we see that it appears that:
 
High Blood Pressure
Coronary disease
Diabetes
Elevated Age (60+)
 
are all factors which make mortality far more likely. 
Note: That isn't saying that risk is solely confined to people who fall into those categories, but that mortality seems to be associated with one or more underlying medical conditions.
If you will note,virtually every death we heard about earlier on mentioned "preexisting medical conditions". 

What we have not heard about (although in some cases that data is absent) is many people dying who had no preexisting conditions, and some of those may have simply been undiagnosed.
Also absent are the numbers which might indicate asymptomatic or mild cases of the disease, numbers which would drive mortality rates down. That is because testing is limited to those who present symptoms, and not done on the general population as a whole. So, while the disease has the characteristics of something highly contagious we really don't know howmany people are inherently resistant to catching it, nor what factors may enhance resistance.

[mystery-ak]

The Italian healthcare system has an inadequate numbers of ICUs compared with the U.S.. Because of this and the large population of elderly, a socialized medical system, and the larger number of Chinese in Milan working in the garment industry, I doubt the U.S. will ever see the same numbers of per capita deaths experienced in Italy.

thanks

[aligncare]

1. Hundreds of thousands of imported Chinese workers and the attendant constant flights in and out of China.

2. Government-run healthcare system

3. higher average age than others.

For starters @mystery-ak

Exactly. It’s foolish to make direct comparisons with Italy or China for that matter.

[TomSea]

All one has to do is compare the reaction to this virus to the response to prior viral outbreaks of even more deadly viruses like the seasonal flu.

Something is different today and it’s not just the particular strain of virus involved. I believe it’s politics, ala never let a good crisis go to waste, and the DNC and media are fully on board with this “crisis.”

I'm not sure if you have never been to Italy, I have, not Northern Italy where Milan and Venice are. Don't  you think some of alarm is simply because we have seen it in other countries, they are having a tough time. I'm not sure, I believe President Trump said something like "We stand with the Brave people of Italy".  I think some of this too, is just alarm at the possibilities of what we see in other places.

Hey, I've already seen the masks out for past flu seasons, forget this one.

Italy too, where we are talking about them having a tough time, is Northern Italy, so one hears 475 dead the other day in Italy, they are mostly from the North.  Are we just shrugging this off? Do we even know this?

Italy coronavirus deaths rise by record 475 in a day
    18 March 2020

The number of people dying from coronavirus in Italy has risen by 475 in one day to nearly 3,000 - the biggest increase since the outbreak.

There are a total of 35,713 confirmed cases in the country, with more than 4,000 having successfully recovered.

Lombardy, the worst-hit region, recorded 319 deaths in one day.

Read more at:  https://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-51952712

Yes, mainstream media, some outlets are attacking the president over this... but a lot of this information is just straight.

[roamer_1]

Exactly. It’s foolish to make direct comparisons with Italy or China for that matter.

That's right - If things go well on this chloroquin play, The difference between US and Italian response will go down in history in vast favor of the free market.

[Bigun]

I'm not sure if you have never been to Italy, I have, not Northern Italy where Milan and Venice are. Don't  you think some of alarm is simply because we have seen it in other countries, they are having a tough time. I'm not sure, I believe President Trump said something like "We stand with the Brave people of Italy".  I think some of this too, is just alarm at the possibilities of what we see in other places.

Hey, I've already seen the masks out for past flu seasons, forget this one.

Italy too, where we are talking about them having a tough time, is Northern Italy, so one hears 475 dead the other day in Italy, they are mostly from the North.  Are we just shrugging this off? Do we even know this?



Yes, mainstream media, some outlets are attacking the president over this... but a lot of this information is just straight.

I have been around/worked with Italians for months on end and love them but their very lifestyle, as well as their genetic makeup, MAY very well make them more susceptible to this particular virus.   Who knows? 

[roamer_1]

I have been around/worked with Italians for months on end and love them but their very lifestyle, as well as their genetic makeup, MAY very well make them more susceptible to this particular virus.   Who knows? 

I am banking on a bloated socialized medical system, too calcified and top heavy to move with agility.

[IsailedawayfromFR]

1. Hundreds of thousands of imported Chinese workers and the attendant constant flights in and out of China.

2. Government-run healthcare system

3. higher average age than others.

For starters @mystery-ak

These include direct flights to Wuhan.

[TomSea]

Again, reports have been out there, posted the other day,  you can count deaths, are we getting the figures for hospital beds? Youths are still having to ICU, probably use meds, nurses, doctors, may use defibrillators and respirators.

Italy:

She also said COVID-19 -- which has infected at least 210,000 people, leaving more than 8,800 people dead worldwide -- could hit younger people harder than believed, noting reports from France and Italy of serious cases even among 20 and 30-somethings.

https://news.yahoo.com/youth-warned-against-fever-dream-coronavirus-invicibility-055907018.html

A lot of people must be online, slow loading but even from that little snippet above, coronavirus is hardly targetting weak elderly patients and an article was posted too, that some, vapers and smokers, may get lung damage from this.

I believe, even if it was sought to be hushed up, that another article seemed to show 17 under-50s had died and they, like the elderly vast majority, appeared to have some pre-existing conditions.

[Formerly Once-Ler]

We all have perspective here and understand that people die in all sorts of ways. It’s irrelevant to this thread.

I know that five or six of you are trying to dismiss the severity of this very different situation we are all in, but maybe you can all start your own thread with all the scoffing you feel like doing, and let the rest of us get information here about a serious healthcare crisis that is scientifically and medically being dealt with by serious people.

And make sure, in spite of your cynicism, that you do the things necessary to keep yourself and your families healthy.

Btw, people don’t usually die in 9 days from a family reunion.

The callousness it takes to summarily disregard that is breathtaking.

@musiclady

President Trump is now providing steady leadership to combat the virus.  His actions have been fast, dramatic, and consistent for seven days now.  He has shown remarkable focus on the problem in the daily press briefings.  Today he announced FDA approval of some medical treatments and even more medicine trials, and even though he couldn't pronounce them, I found that reassuring.  He continues to call for unity, bi-partianship, and remembers to also praise others when he pats himself on the back.  I can see he is really trying hard even though he feels bitter about being unfairly blamed for this pandemic.

My President has picked a direction, and laid out a 15 day guideline. I am willing to put aside my mistrust in him, and give my President the benefit of the doubt, that he has assembled the data and believe his direction is necessary to save lives.

The good news is maybe it will work.  Death will be minimized. 
I also hope when this is all done the "five or six" you mention can point and laugh at my stupidity, because it was no big deal. 
I would hate to loses even one Briefer, especially one I made feel badly in the pursuit of a joke.
I really want my President to succeed


plus I'm getting a check /sarc   

[EdinVA]

@musiclady

President Trump is now providing steady leadership to combat the virus.  His actions have been fast, dramatic, and consistent for seven days now.  He has shown remarkable focus on the problem in the daily press briefings.  Today he announced FDA approval of some medical treatments and even more medicine trials, and even though he couldn't pronounce them, I found that reassuring.  He continues to call for unity, bi-partianship, and remembers to also praise others when he pats himself on the back.  I can see he is really trying hard even though he feels bitter about being unfairly blamed for this pandemic.

My President has picked a direction, and laid out a 15 day guideline. I am willing to put aside my mistrust in him, and give my President the benefit of the doubt, that he has assembled the data and believe his direction is necessary to save lives.

The good news is maybe it will work.  Death will be minimized. 
I also hope when this is all done the "five or six" you mention can point and laugh at my stupidity, because it was no big deal. 
I would hate to loses even one Briefer, especially one I made feel badly in the pursuit of a joke.
I really want my President to succeed


plus I'm getting a check /sarc

@Once-Ler
Well said... my view as well.

[Gefn]

Is anyone else feeling overwhelmed by this? And depressed?

[DB]

I am a scientist. Call me callous as you please, I really don't care.
That won't change the cold, hard, facts.

Those people didn't "die in 9 days from a family reunion", this wasn't some inner-city gathering in a drive-by shooting.

They died of a virus, and I'll bet if you had all the facts, you would find that these genetically related people had one or more of the conditions which enhance their probability of succumbing to the disease.  Not to mention that in any family reunion, the family elders are usually present.  All the high risk factors may be present.
But we are dealing with panic induced by cherry picked and omitted data and that is poor, thin, gruel to base decisions upon.

If rationality seems cold and unfeeling, then you are correct, but it is rational, not emotional, as so much of what I am seeing here is. If you think policy is best served by feelings, then you are barking up the wrong tree. Emotionally based decisions are Democrat fare.

Lots of us are genetically challenged. You make it sound like those people are throwaway people because they have some defect. They didn't cross the street. They didn't gather in gang land. They minded their own business and had a seriously bad outcome because at least one of them came into contact with someone infected with the Chinese coronavirus. None of us know how well or badly our bodies will respond to this virus. There's legitimate concern about going bankrupt from being in intensive care or losing a family member that isn't in awesome health. The cities are much different than the rural areas as far as risk goes.

[musiclady]

I'm glad Governor Abbott of Texas is taking this pandemic, health emergency seriously and putting safety measures in effect.  Saving lives.....

https://gov.texas.gov/news/post/governor-abbott-issues-executive-orders-in-accordance-with-federal-guidelines-to-mitigate-spread-of-covid-19-in-texas

The following orders have been issued by Governor Abbott:

Order No. 1: In accordance with the Guidelines from the President and the CDC, every person in Texas shall avoid social gatherings in groups of more than 10 people.

Order No. 2: In accordance with the Guidelines from the President and the CDC, people shall avoid eating or drinking at bars, restaurants, and food courts, or visiting gyms or massage parlors; provided, however, that the use of drive-thru, pickup, or delivery options is allowed and highly encouraged throughout the limited duration of this executive order.

Order No. 3: In accordance with the Guidelines from the President and the CDC, people shall not visit nursing homes or retirement or long-term care facilities unless to provide critical assistance.

Order No. 4: In accordance with the Guidelines from the President and the CDC, schools shall temporarily close.
These orders will be effective on a statewide basis starting at 11:59 PM on March 20, 2020 and will end at 11:59 PM on April 3, 2020, subject to extension thereafter based on the status of COVID-19 in Texas and the recommendations of the CDC.

[EdinVA]

Is anyone else feeling overwhelmed by this? And depressed?

@Gefn
It is easy to get overwhelmed between the non-stop yammering by the media and our own concerns for family and friends.
I had to turn off the news and leave the TV on the old westerns and just get my information from TBR... It is more varied anyway and I can walk away when I have had enough.
I take time and go for a walk thru the park with my grandson... the parks are empty so no risk of getting close to anyone..

[Neverdul]

Lots of us are genetically challenged. You make it sound like those people are throwaway people because they have some defect. They didn't cross the street. They didn't gather in gang land. They minded their own business and had a seriously bad outcome because at least one of them came into contact with someone infected with the Chinese coronavirus. None of us know how well or badly our bodies will respond to this virus. There's legitimate concern about going bankrupt from being in intensive care or losing a family member that isn't in awesome health. The cities are much different than the rural areas as far as risk goes.

“If they would rather die, they had better do it, and decrease the surplus population and so we can get the Olive Garden back open.”

[musiclady]

@musiclady

President Trump is now providing steady leadership to combat the virus.  His actions have been fast, dramatic, and consistent for seven days now.  He has shown remarkable focus on the problem in the daily press briefings.  Today he announced FDA approval of some medical treatments and even more medicine trials, and even though he couldn't pronounce them, I found that reassuring.  He continues to call for unity, bi-partianship, and remembers to also praise others when he pats himself on the back.  I can see he is really trying hard even though he feels bitter about being unfairly blamed for this pandemic.

My President has picked a direction, and laid out a 15 day guideline. I am willing to put aside my mistrust in him, and give my President the benefit of the doubt, that he has assembled the data and believe his direction is necessary to save lives.

The good news is maybe it will work.  Death will be minimized. 
I also hope when this is all done the "five or six" you mention can point and laugh at my stupidity, because it was no big deal. 
I would hate to loses even one Briefer, especially one I made feel badly in the pursuit of a joke.
I really want my President to succeed


plus I'm getting a check /sarc

I completely agree.

My respect for President Trump has gone up tremendously because of the actions he's taken to protect the American people from this viral invasion.

It is his duty......... as it is the duty of all responsible state leaders like Gov. DeWine (who has led amazingly), other Governors, and now Gov. Abbott of the GREAT state of Texas.

Kudos to them for taking charge.

I wish everyone here well, no matter how seriously or not they are taking this VERY REAL HEALTH CRISIS.

And I am praying for the well being of each Briefer and each family member of each.

We are in this together, and I pray that God is honored once again in this nation, perhaps because of this, and that we come out even stronger TOGETHER.



(But I don't want the check.  )

[musiclady]

Lots of us are genetically challenged. You make it sound like those people are throwaway people because they have some defect. They didn't cross the street. They didn't gather in gang land. They minded their own business and had a seriously bad outcome because at least one of them came into contact with someone infected with the Chinese coronavirus. None of us know how well or badly our bodies will respond to this virus. There's legitimate concern about going bankrupt from being in intensive care or losing a family member that isn't in awesome health. The cities are much different than the rural areas as far as risk goes.

I don't like the idea of expendable people, no matter if it comes from the left or the right.

People should NOT die in a week and a half because they went to a family reunion and hugged each other.

For heaven's sake............. let's be bigger than that, shall we??

[Gefn]

I just got an alert from the NY Post. Don’t know where this happened but so dang young

20-year-old coronavirus victim was told ‘no need to worry’ by doctors

The tragic 20-year-old soccer coach who is one of the youngest known coronavirus victims had been sent home twice while seeking help — told by his doctor that there was “no need to worry,” according to his family.

Spanish youth coach Francisco Garcia — who would have turned 21 in October — initially thought he had a common cold when he fell ill on March 6, his stepfather, Juan Fernandez, told the Sun.

“He had a sore throat but he didn’t have a temperature,” Fernandez said, with his stepson seeing his doctor in Malaga three days later.

“His doctor told him to take paracetamol [acetaminophen] and sent him home and said there was no need to worry.”

https://nypost.com/2020/03/19/20-year-old-coronavirus-victim-was-told-no-need-to-worry-by-doctors/

[Gefn]

I posted this in the NJ thread, but I’m double posting here.

Fourth person in NJ family has died from the coronavirus

A New Jersey family has lost a fourth member to the coronavirus, according to a report Thursday.

Vincent Fusco died at CentraState Medical Center in Freehold, cousin and Fusco family lawyer Roseann Paradiso Fodera told nj.com.

Fusco was among four siblings being treated for the disease at the hospital, where his mom, Grace Fusco, 73, died Wednesday night.

Another of Grace’s 11 offspring, Carmine Fusco, died earlier Wednesday in Pennsylvania, following last week’s death of his sister, Rita Fusco-Jackson.

https://nypost.com/2020/03/19/fourth-person-in-nj-family-has-died-from-the-coronavirus/

[musiclady]

I posted this in the NJ thread, but I’m double posting here.

Fourth person in NJ family has died from the coronavirus

https://nypost.com/2020/03/19/fourth-person-in-nj-family-has-died-from-the-coronavirus/

This is truly tragic.   

[Gefn]

@Gefn
It is easy to get overwhelmed between the non-stop yammering by the media and our own concerns for family and friends.
I had to turn off the news and leave the TV on the old westerns and just get my information from TBR... It is more varied anyway and I can walk away when I have had enough.
I take time and go for a walk thru the park with my grandson... the parks are empty so no risk of getting close to anyone..

Thank you @EdinVA

Much appreciated. ❤️

[Formerly Once-Ler]

Is anyone else feeling overwhelmed by this? And depressed?

Of course @Gefn .  Most of us in fact. 

[libertybele]

I completely agree.

My respect for President Trump has gone up tremendously because of the actions he's taken to protect the American people from this viral invasion.

It is his duty......... as it is the duty of all responsible state leaders like Gov. DeWine (who has led amazingly), other Governors, and now Gov. Abbott of the GREAT state of Texas.

Kudos to them for taking charge.

I wish everyone here well, no matter how seriously or not they are taking this VERY REAL HEALTH CRISIS.

And I am praying for the well being of each Briefer and each family member of each.

We are in this together, and I pray that God is honored once again in this nation, perhaps because of this, and that we come out even stronger TOGETHER.



(But I don't want the check.  )

Amen!!! I pray for this country and our President and his family.

As for the check -- well you could always donate what you get to your favorite charity, food pantry, or church?