Trump responds to Christianity Today: No president has done what I’ve done for religion itself

[roamer_1]

He's My President, Not My Pastor

What a lie that is.

And how. 

[Chosen Daughter]

The Lesser of Two Evils
Bill Fortenberry

http://www.increasinglearning.com/the-lesser-of-two-evils.html

Good.

[Chosen Daughter]

So David was not suitable to be God's appointee as he killed a man to have his wife?

Better think that one through.  God is listening.

Doesn't take much thinking.  Trump is not a King David.  And David was punished by God.

[IsailedawayfromFR]

Doesn't take much thinking.  Trump is not a King David.  And David was punished by God.

So we all will be for our transgressions.

So why the high horse for Trump but not for David, an obviously much more important leader?

[roamer_1]

What specifics are you alluding to?

@IsailedawayfromFR
All of it is nonsense. Every bit. From framing the fathers as secular all the way around.
It's bullcrap.

What manner of thinking EXCUSES poor character by framing the idea that only pastors must necessarily be moral?
It is absurdity.

Good character is something EVERYONE should strive for, and it forms that basis of every - hear me - EVERY social institution, from verbal contracts all the way up.

Would you be wise to seek out men of good character to guide you in your life? Of course!
Would you be wise to seek out men of good character in your business dealings? Of course!
There is not a single corner of your life that does not necessitate seeking out good character.

Be very careful justifying that bathwater you are throwing out. There is a baby in it.

[Chosen Daughter]

In the same light, the Bible does touch upon Separation of Church and State.

Romans 13:1-7 ESV

Let every person be subject to the governing authorities. For there is no authority except from God, and those that exist have been instituted by God. Therefore whoever resists the authorities resists what God has appointed, and those who resist will incur judgment. For rulers are not a terror to good conduct, but to bad. Would you have no fear of the one who is in authority? Then do what is good, and you will receive his approval, for he is God's servant for your good. But if you do wrong, be afraid, for he does not bear the sword in vain. For he is the servant of God, an avenger who carries out God's wrath on the wrongdoer. Therefore one must be in subjection, not only to avoid God's wrath but also for the sake of conscience.

And remember that the Jews wanted Jesus to be a conquering King and fight the Romans.  His battles are spiritual.  He made it very clear to accept the laws of the authority of the land.  Give to Caesar....etc.  That doesn't mean that there won't be evil leaders and we know there are, and have been.  God also allows bad government to fulfill His purposes.  Our government is made up of separate powers and levels of government, nd laws of which we must obey.  That is simple and true.  We must obey the law.

This is the reason that we vote for good leaders also.  Because it is pleasing to God and he blesses those who live according to his Will.  God never is involved in evil.  He allows it for His own purpose.  The Bible is full of examples of how authority made wrong choices and suffered.

Some commentary on Romans 13

https://enduringword.com/bible-commentary/Romans-13/

[libertybele]

And remember that the Jews wanted Jesus to be a conquering King and fight the Romans.  His battles are spiritual.  He made it very clear to accept the laws of the authority of the land.  Give to Caesar....etc.  That doesn't mean that there won't be evil leaders and we know there are, and have been.  God also allows bad government to fulfill His purposes.  Our government is made up of separate powers and levels of government, nd laws of which we must obey.  That is simple and true.  We must obey the law.

This is the reason that we vote for good leaders also.  Because it is pleasing to God and he blesses those who live according to his Will.  God never is involved in evil.  He allows it for His own purpose.  The Bible is full of examples of how authority made wrong choices and suffered.

Some commentary on Romans 13

https://enduringword.com/bible-commentary/Romans-13/

Thank you for the commentary. 

[XenaLee]

We are to judge everything pertaining to this Earth...  Including whether our President is a good Christian or not. We are to judge "rightly" with "fruits" (actions including quotes like you provided) are prime gifts in which to judge rightly.

Seems nobody has a problem with us judging whether Obama was a good Christian or not... Could we just say that the Germans were fine during WWII because how dare they judge their leader as a power hungry godless idiot...but don't dare point out their darlin Trump for cheating on all his wives and hiring a stripper... Character doesn't matter then... something the article (O.P) was right about...

 I don't agree with the article over matters pertaining to trying to get dirt on Biden... Biden and the democrats opened that can of worms and where it lead to is their own fault. But point out that Trump has defended his pro-abortion positions more than once and goes straight to spin doctor this and that... People say "you know he has changed"... like he changed positions between debates on Planned Parenthood... (stop funding PP, next it does great things).... we look at "fruits" like how some countries got some PP money stopped due to their abortion positions (which they just juggled around and got the money again eventually)... look at the budgets Trump has signed (and lobbied Congress for) ... all the PP money got approved.

Durn right we judge... and Lord help us to judge "rightly"... the only living things that don't judge are usually in the plant kingdom or so simple they lack the ability to judge. But it doesn't take a rocket scientist to see that Trump plays the simple Christians for fools... and that some that claim the banner of Christian have other gods (politics) before Jesus.

Ahem..... yes, we all do "judge" and make judgments on others.

But.....to judge "rightly" is not at all what is occurring among the Trump-hating left, however.   About as far from "rightly" as it could possibly get. 

And btw, since you're so into judging others....
and essentially calling Christians that support Trump "simple" and "fools" (for having been played) that is in my humble opinion also about as far from being a good Christian and is about as "unjust" and "unright" as you could possibly be.

So yeah, ok.   I'll do some "judging" here, too.   Happy now?

Jesus said:

Judge not lest ye be judged...
2For with what judgment ye judge, ye shall be judged: and with what measure ye mete, it shall be measured to you again. 3And why beholdest thou the mote that is in thy brother's eye, but considerest not the beam that is in thine own eye? 4Or how wilt thou say to thy brother, Let me pull out the mote out of thine eye; and, behold, a beam is in thine own eye?

https://www.kingjamesbibleonline.org/Matthew-7-1/

[roamer_1]

And remember that the Jews wanted Jesus to be a conquering King and fight the Romans.  His battles are spiritual.  He made it very clear to accept the laws of the authority of the land.  Give to Caesar....etc.  That doesn't mean that there won't be evil leaders and we know there are, and have been.  God also allows bad government to fulfill His purposes.  Our government is made up of separate powers and levels of government, nd laws of which we must obey.  That is simple and true.  We must obey the law.

... As far as it goes. There is a time to disobey what ain't right, and that too is in the Bible.

To everything there is a season, and a time for every purpose under heaven.

[Chosen Daughter]

... As far as it goes. There is a time to disobey what ain't right, and that too is in the Bible.

To everything there is a season, and a time for every purpose under heaven.

In that commentary it mentions that also.  What is right according to man or God?  You are right.  There is a season.  People need to take the Bible as a whole.  I think you may like this:

The Limits of Submission to Man

Resource by John Piper
 
Topic: Government
I have a vision of the church as a people who are sojourners, strangers, exiles, refugees in this world (Hebrews 11:13; 1 Peter 2:11; Philippians 3:20). A happy, peaceful, loving people who swear allegiance to a foreign king, Jesus Christ, and to no other. A people who reside in every nation but whose all-determining citizenship is in heaven, from which we await our King and Savior, the Lord Jesus Christ. I have a vision of the church as the freest of all peoples in the world. Free from fear and greed because the kingdom to which we belong cannot be shaken (Hebrews 12:28), and because our true fatherland is heaven (Hebrews 11:16), and the city of our destiny has God for its builder and maker (Hebrews 11:10). I see the church as a free people because our minds are not conformed to this age but are transformed by the mercies of God, so that we are not enslaved by fashion or fad or any other form of covetousness. I have a vision of the church with strong desires not shaped by the persuaders of this world but shaped by the messages coming from the fatherland. O for a church with a single and radical allegiance to the king who said, "My kingdom is not of this world" (John 18:36). ……

Continue reading:

https://www.desiringgod.org/messages/the-limits-of-submission-to-man

[Chosen Daughter]

Thank you for the commentary.

Your welcome.

Merry Christmas @libertybele

[libertybele]

Your welcome.

Merry Christmas @libertybele

Merry Christmas @Chosen Daughter     

[roamer_1]

In that commentary it mentions that also.  What is right according to man or God?  You are right.  There is a season.  People need to take the Bible as a whole.  I think you may like this:

The Limits of Submission to Man

Resource by John Piper

@Chosen Daughter
Piper is always a good read, and that was a good dissection of the issue. In the end, serve God not man. Do right.
 

[IsailedawayfromFR]

@IsailedawayfromFR
All of it is nonsense. Every bit. From framing the fathers as secular all the way around.
It's bullcrap.

What manner of thinking EXCUSES poor character by framing the idea that only pastors must necessarily be moral?
It is absurdity.

Good character is something EVERYONE should strive for, and it forms that basis of every - hear me - EVERY social institution, from verbal contracts all the way up.

Would you be wise to seek out men of good character to guide you in your life? Of course!
Would you be wise to seek out men of good character in your business dealings? Of course!
There is not a single corner of your life that does not necessitate seeking out good character.

Be very careful justifying that bathwater you are throwing out. There is a baby in it.

All of it?

So you reject the suggestion to pray for the man?

Why would you do that?

[roamer_1]

All of it?

So you reject the suggestion to pray for the man?

Why would you do that?

LOL! Meh. You know what I mean. 

[Chosen Daughter]

@Chosen Daughter
Piper is always a good read, and that was a good dissection of the issue. In the end, serve God not man. Do right.
 

And he had several articles on there appropriate to viewing a Christians perspective on voting, leadership and government.  That is what I was looking for when I found it.  I am going to go back and read them all.  That actually was the first time that I have ever read Piper.  I wouldn't have posted it if I didn't think that it was good.  And since you know his writings I know its good.



For you @roamer_1 .  I can't be responsible if others look at it too.

https://www.desiringgod.org/articles/how-to-live-under-an-unqualified-president

[dancer]

In a letter sent to Timothy Dalrymple, the president of Christianity Today, on Sunday, nearly 200 evangelical faith leaders condemned both its editorial calling for the removal of President Donald Trump from office and its editor-in-chief, Mark Galli, for dismissing evangelicals who oppose his views on the matter as being “far right.”

https://blackchristiannews.com/2019/12/nearly-200-evangelical-leaders-condemn-christianity-today-for-questioning-their-spiritual-integrity-and-christian-witness/

[Chosen Daughter]

In a letter sent to Timothy Dalrymple, the president of Christianity Today, on Sunday, nearly 200 evangelical faith leaders condemned both its editorial calling for the removal of President Donald Trump from office and its editor-in-chief, Mark Galli, for dismissing evangelicals who oppose his views on the matter as being “far right.”

https://blackchristiannews.com/2019/12/nearly-200-evangelical-leaders-condemn-christianity-today-for-questioning-their-spiritual-integrity-and-christian-witness/

Likewise the magazine is receiving thanks for posting the article.

[Emjay]

IMPOTUS said, "I have never asked God for forgiveness because I've never done anything wrong."  He is amoral - "Lacking a moral sense; unconcerned with the rightness or wrongness of something."

One:  He was joking and,


Just leave it at One @Emjay you know better.

[Chosen Daughter]

One:  He was joking and,


Just leave it at One @Emjay you know better.

Welcome back @Emjay!

Question how do you know he is joking?  Do you own property in Trumps head?  Sounded serious to me.

[Wingnut]

One:  He was joking and,


Just leave it at One @Emjay you know better.

But ....
Two was equally accurate..

[Sighlass]

Ahem..... yes, we all do "judge" and make judgments on others.

Judge not lest ye be judged...
2For with what judgment ye judge, ye shall be judged: and with what measure ye mete, it shall be measured to you again. 3And why beholdest thou the mote that is in thy brother's eye, but considerest not the beam that is in thine own eye? 4Or how wilt thou say to thy brother, Let me pull out the mote out of thine eye; and, behold, a beam is in thine own eye?

https://www.kingjamesbibleonline.org/Matthew-7-1/

@XenaLee

Why did you leave off the next part of the verse? Who is not to judge? A Hypocrite....

Ye hypocrite, first take the plank out of your own eye, and then you will see clearly to remove the speck from your brother’s eye. -Mathew 7:5

Now not only is a hypocrite (someone doing the same thing as they are accusing others of doing) not to judge... but the verse you see goes on to instruct such hypocrites how to clean up their act and start judging "rightly".

Funny you stopped one verse short of getting the big picture... seems a lot of folks do that for some reason...

[XenaLee]

@XenaLee

Why did you leave off the next part of the verse? Who is not to judge? A Hypocrite....

Ye hypocrite, first take the plank out of your own eye, and then you will see clearly to remove the speck from your brother’s eye. -Mathew 7:5

Now not only is a hypocrite (someone doing the same thing as they are accusing others of doing) not to judge... but the verse you see goes on to instruct such hypocrites how to clean up their act and start judging "rightly".

Funny you stopped one verse short of getting the big picture... seems a lot of folks do that for some reason...

Ah, but... commenting on someone that is judging Trump unjustly is not being a hypocrite. It is merely pointing out the hypocrisy in those doing the judging. But nice try.

Why did you skip over the part about judging "rightly"? (rhetorical question since I'm pretty sure I know why)

[libertybele]

CT is one publication.  Many evangelical leaders still back President Trump.  Lots of critics; but would anyone of them step up to the plate to challenge the President to fill his set and to fill his shoes and could anyone of them do any better?  No.  No one has stepped up to the plate and when and if they do, they better prepare themselves to be criticized as much as he has.

[Sighlass]

Ah, but... commenting on someone that is judging Trump unjustly is not being a hypocrite. It is merely pointing out the hypocrisy in those doing the judging. But nice try.

Well I agree if I understand you correctly... (I think you were talking about the left judging Trump wrongly)...... Progressive lefties can't even judge a boy a boy, much less anything else. 
But if someone points out that Trump gave his permission to Bruce Jenner to use the women's restrooms at Trump towers with a camera crew to document it during the elections, why were they vilified? I know they were vilified, because my pointing it out had me thrown out of Free Republic and called names (asshat and more) for pointing it out. I was told by Jim if I couldn't get with the program to sit it out. I was added to a list and gleefully jeered.

All I can say, if you think me or someone else is judging wrong, point it out... but don't expect some of us to say wrong is right and vice versa. I personally know I am a flawed person, but dang if I am expecting perfection in some elected flawed human. But good grief, it is hard to grasp hold of the jello of what we got. I try to point out the few solid fruit pieces, but don't expect some of us to ignore the rest of the drippings.