Christianity Today, influential evangelical magazine, says Trump 'should be removed from office'

[jmyrlefuller]

What would Jesus do @Chosen Daughter? 

Would He say: "Use My Name to surrender to the destroyers of the last best hope of all on Earth"  --- or would He say: "I have made this flawed man available to lead your fight at a time such as this"

I think Jesus would remind us not to fall prey to those who use His Name to harm His people ---- and now is a time to be wise as serpents.

He would say: "Beware of false prophets, who come in sheep's clothing but inward are ravenous wolves."

You and countless others have sold your soul to a grifter, on the premise that the other guy is worse, without considering any way to depose both.

[sneakypete]

I don't think it is the Devout Catholics who are in that 40%, but more likely the 'cafeteria Catholics' like Pelosi who claim it when it suits them, and only pick what they want off the buffet.

@Smokin Joe

Ok,thanks.

[don-o]

He would say: "Beware of false prophets, who come in sheep's clothing but inward are ravenous wolves."

You and countless others have sold your soul to a grifter, on the premise that the other guy is worse, without considering any way to depose both.

I guess you did not read the perfect article that I referenced above.

Odyssey of a NeverTrumper
http://www.gopbriefingroom.com/index.php/topic,218923.0.html

Perhaps a reading of it and the discussion that it engendered will disabuse you of the "sold  your soul" blather.

Warning: For it to do any good, one must needs to grapple with the concept of "intrinsic evil" and a citizen's God pleasing or, at the least, God allowing  response to it.

[libertybele]

It is one thing to hold your religious beliefs dear to your heart and try to live your life accordingly and quite another to hide behind your faith and try to use it as a weapon to accomplish an agenda.

[mountaineer]

You and countless others have sold your soul to a grifter, on the premise that the other guy is worse, without considering any way to depose both.

We don't "depose" in this constitutional representative republic. We vote people out of office if we're not satisfied with them.

 When a better candidate comes along, I'll vote for him. Many of us here are reluctant or lukewarm Trump supporters (if "supporters" even is the right word) who were hoping for a better candidate in 2016 and, frankly, were shocked and appalled when he became the GOP nominee. It's possible to appreciate some of his accomplishments and policy decisions without liking him as a person.

 He's the president right now, though, and wishing and hoping it were otherwise doesn't change that fact. Not a single Democrat - whether already running or lurking in the shadows like Moochelle and Bubbette - is worthy of our vote and probably isn't of superior moral character (I don't know, I don't spend my time judging the state of others' souls) than the current president, either.

Incidentally, "grifter" usually refers to someone who swindles another out of money. That probably isn't the right word to describe Trump, as most Americans' financial situations have improved since 2016. Call him uncouth, graceless, even classless - I won't disagree.

[libertybele]

He would say: "Beware of false prophets, who come in sheep's clothing but inward are ravenous wolves."

You and countless others have sold your soul to a grifter, on the premise that the other guy is worse, without considering any way to depose both.

If you have a plan or see a way to remove people like George Soros who is funding the mass illegal immigration into this country, the leftists in our government and countless foundations to take our Republic down, please enlighten us.   IMHO DJT has stood up and has made an attempt to do so.  No one else is coming forward to challenge him who is also willing to stand up to the radical left.  No one.  He has been impeached by the very people who want to take this Republic down.  Again, if you have a plan or see a way to replace both sides, please let us know.

@jmyrlefuller can I assume that you feel that Trump has accomplished nothing positive for this country?

DJT was voted in as President.  That is done.  We can either work with him to hopefully keep this country on a better path forward or we can work against him and hope at the same time that the radical leftists won't destroy this country.  Those ARE our choices.  I believe we have to work with who and what God has given us. I don't consider that selling my 'soul' to anyone (which by the way I take offense to).

The leftists that are running and want to lead this country are for abortion, transgenderism, homosexuality, same sex marriage, illegal immigration, anti-patriotism, anti-Christianity.  So again, if you feel trying to avoid them leading the country and going with a leader who so far has taken the opposite stance on those issues, is selling your 'soul' than I truly believe you may need to do some soul searching.

There is a stark difference between reality and wishful thinking.  Right now the reality is we have to make choices with the hand that we were dealt.  We have 535 members of Congress and 1 President.  That is how our system of government works; and many have inserted themselves into our government to overturn our Republic.  Sure, it would be wonderful if all 535 members of Congress were doing what was best for this country and a President that was unflawed who would make this country perfect.  However, that isn't reality.

Again, if you have a viable plan to depose of those on both sides, please let us know.

[musiclady]

No, can't go there.  Nothing to do with Soros and everything to do with Trump.  This is a leading Christian magazine.  I think it will reach a lot of readers.  And I know Christian Trump supporters who just need a nudge.  Because they complain about Trumps tweets or his GDing at his rallies.

This is written perfectly.  It is "perfect".  A "perfect article.  A call to Christians to think about who they are.

Here is the link to that perfect article, the original:

https://www.christianitytoday.com/ct/2019/december-web-only/trump-should-be-removed-from-office.html

It is so good to finally read a thoughtful Christian response to the bizarre blind support of Trump by "evangelical Christians."

I really, truly hope that now that someone has finally spoken up in a reasoned, BIBLICAL article that it is damaging to Christianity to continue to support immoral behavior and dishonesty, more Christians who have been silent about their dismay with the worship of Trump at any cost, will speak up.

This man is not a villain.  This man is not a traitor.  This man is speaking about consistent Biblical standards that have been set aside for the honor of a MAN over GOD's law.

btw, this article is more in keeping with the values of Billy Graham than his son Franklin is....   

[musiclady]

He would say: "Beware of false prophets, who come in sheep's clothing but inward are ravenous wolves."

You and countless others have sold your soul to a grifter, on the premise that the other guy is worse, without considering any way to depose both.

Exactly.

The argument that the other guy is worse, or that all politicians lie and do bad things is NO excuse for supporting what we ALL once opposed.

Impeachable or not (I don't think it is), Christians should not be supporting unethical, immoral behavior.

[PeteS in CA]

https://pjmedia.com/lifestyle/christianity-today-no-longer-speaks-for-evangelicals-after-impeachment-op-ed/

Christianity Today 'No Longer Speaks for Evangelicals' After Impeachment Op-Ed]

On Thursday, Christianity Today's Editor-in-Chief Mark Galli called for the removal of President Donald Trump in the impeachment process. He cited the late renowned evangelist Billy Graham, the magazine's founder. Many evangelical leaders, notably including Billy Graham's son Franklin, condemned the op-ed and insisted that Christianity Today no longer speaks for evangelicals.
...
Yet Galli went on to demand Trump's removal from office — either through the impeachment process or by the voters in 2020. He insisted that "the facts in this instance are unambiguous: The president of the United States attempted to use his political power to coerce a foreign leader to harass and discredit one of the president’s political opponents. That is not only a violation of the Constitution; more importantly, it is profoundly immoral."
...
"Yes, my father Billy Graham founded Christianity Today; but no, he would not agree with their opinion piece," Franklin Graham began. "In fact, he would be very disappointed. I have not previously shared who my father voted for in the past election, but because of this article, I feel it is necessary to share it now. My father knew Donald Trump, he believed in Donald Trump, and he voted for Donald Trump. He believed that Donald J. Trump was the man for this hour in history for our nation."
...
Bestselling author Eric Metaxas, known for his work on Veggie Tales and his biographies of Deitrich Bonhoeffer and Martin Luther, also condemned the Christianity Today op-ed.

Eric Metaxas

@ericmetaxas

The problem w/the @CTMagazine editorial is that CT no longer speaks for most evangelicals as it once did. CT always leaned left, but it came across as mostly a-political, as carefully standing apart from the "Christian Right". But of course Trump now makes that stance untenable.

There are other Evangelical leaders' quotes in the article, some of whom have been quoted here.

I'm an ordinary person, an Evangelical Christian. My name won't be found in a church's pastoral staff list nor a list of best-selling Christian authors. That said, I have, literally, heard the Scriptures read and Christian teaching longer than I can remember. So I do have meaningful familiarity with both.

I'll go farther than Graham and others. Galli's statement, "... the facts in this instance are unambiguous: The president of the United States attempted to use his political power to coerce a foreign leader to harass and discredit one of the president’s political opponents. ..." is false. False. On. Its. Face.

The transcript of Trump's phone call, https://www.foxnews.com/politics/trumps-ukraine-call-transcript-read-the-document - - acknowledged as accurate in Schifftyroo's hearings - evidence no "coercion". The President of Ukraine, Volodymyr Zelensky has stated, multiple times, unambiguously, that he was not pressured or "coerced".

Further, the transcipt of the phone call shows that Trump was asking Ukraine to investigate possible Ukainian interference in the 2016 election, corruption in Burisma, and the removal of the prosecutor investigating Burisma (something Biden boasts he arm-twisted a previous Ukrainian President into doing). Joe Biden was not Trump's particular focus. Investigation of real corruption is not "harassment". Being a Presidential candidate does not shield the quid pro quo action Biden claims he did from investigation. If the truth discredits Biden, too damn bad. Overseeing valid criminal investigations is one of Trump's Constitutional duties, contrary to Galli's claim. Nor is it "profoundly immoral" as Galli claims.

One of many things taught and emphasized when I was growing up in the Lutheran church is what was called the 8th Commandment (or 9th in some traditions), "Thou shalt not bear false witness against thy neighbour". Galli and Christianity Today profess to speak, not just as, but for many Christians, yet their grossly false condemnation of Trump violates this fundamental moral teaching. While, many years ago, I was a CT subscriber, I will not consider subscribing to CT as long as Galli remains editor. Galli sacrificed basic morality, being truthful, for partisanship while speaking as/for Christians.

[mystery-ak]

Franklin Graham Blasts Christianity Today's Call for Trump's Impeachment: My Dad Would Be DisappointedFranklin Graham Blasts Christianity Today's Call for Trump's Impeachment: My Dad Would Be Disappointed

https://townhall.com/tipsheet/bethbaumann/2019/12/21/franklin-graham-blasts-christian-todays-call-for-trumps-impeachment-my-dad-would-be-disappointed-n2558387

[musiclady]

Franklin Graham also claims to speak FOR evangelicals, and he most certainly doesn’t speak for me, or many, many others.

It is exceedingly dangerous to make a highly flawed man an idol, and that is exactly what is happening with some of these leaders.’

Get back to the Gospel.

[libertybele]

Exactly.

The argument that the other guy is worse, or that all politicians lie and do bad things is NO excuse for supporting what we ALL once opposed.

Impeachable or not (I don't think it is), Christians should not be supporting unethical, immoral behavior.

Make no mistake here, it is not that I support unethical, immoral behavior.  Not in the least.  It is because that I do not support unethical, immoral behavior that I refuse to vote for anyone on the left.  Nor do I support any immoral behavior or unethical behavior from our President.  However, I don't see him advocating abortion, same sex marriage, homosexuality, etc. So, looking at those issues for instance, that I see as immoral and unethical, personally, I find myself having to make a choice of voting for someone who has attempted to take this country in a more moral and ethical direction or someone who will continue to trample Christian values.  Those are the choices that have been handed to me.  So I come back to the same question; who will lead this country in a more moral and ethical way?  There is no guarantee that if re-elected, he won't come completely unhinged and join the liberals on the left.  To say that I have sold my soul, because of the choices that I am faced with is insulting; I am basing my decision on doing what I think is best with the hand that I've been dealt.

Again, no one has stepped up who is more moral or ethical to replace him, so that person right now doesn't exist.

The only other option is to abstain from voting, or basically doing nothing, or only voting down ballot.

[musiclady]

Make no mistake here, it is not that I support unethical, immoral behavior.  Not in the least.  It is because that I do not support unethical, immoral behavior that I refuse to vote for anyone on the left.  Nor do I support any immoral behavior or unethical behavior from our President.  However, I don't see him advocating abortion, same sex marriage, homosexuality, etc. So, looking at those issues for instance, that I see as immoral and unethical, personally, I find myself having to make a choice of voting for someone who has attempted to take this country in a more moral and ethical direction or someone who will continue to trample Christian values.  Those are the choices that have been handed to me.  So I come back to the same question; who will lead this country in a more moral and ethical way?  There is no guarantee that if re-elected, he won't come completely unhinged and join the liberals on the left.  To say that I have sold my soul, because of the choices that I am faced with is insulting; I am basing my decision on doing what I think is best with the hand that I've been dealt.

Again, no one has stepped up who is more moral or ethical to replace him, so that person right now doesn't exist.

The only other option is to abstain from voting, or basically doing nothing, or only voting down ballot.

My point remains.  If Evangelical Christians continue to support immorality and unethical behavior because it is “better than the alternative “ rather than stand strong for absolute values, then we have lost our influence in the world for Christ for the sake of politics.

Nothing Trump has done in the past four years has changed that reality.

[Right_in_Virginia]

He would say: "Beware of false prophets, who come in sheep's clothing but inward are ravenous wolves."

You and countless others have sold your soul to a grifter, on the premise that the other guy is worse, without considering any way to depose both.

No one but you is calling or thinking of the President as a prophet.  While God sent a perfect man but once, He always sends the man perfect for the job to be done.  Just ask Churchill.  Just ask King David.

Only you seem to require perfection.

And I have sold my soul to no one ... so get a hold of your damn mouth @jmyrlefuller  Your ignorance is getting the best of you.

[Right_in_Virginia]

Ralph Reed: Evangelical magazine that slammed Trump should change name to 'Christianity Yesterday'
Fox News, Dec 20, 2019

Faith and Freedom Coalition chairman Ralph Reed denounced comments by the editor of a prominent Evangelical Christian magazine who called for President Trump's removal from office.

[...]

Reed somewhat echoed those sentiments, saying Galli may want to change the magazine's name to "Christianity Yesterday."

"You cannot imagine a publication more out of step with the faith community that it once represented," he said.

"President Trump received 81% of the votes of evangelicals four years ago -- the highest ever recorded. His job approval according to a recent poll by my organization -- the Faith and Freedom Coalition -- among U.S. Evangelical stands at 83%. That is a historic high."

Reed remarked he didn't believe Galli saw the same impeachment hearings as the rest of the nation.

"My reading of scripture is that we are supposed to render honor to whom is due honor," he continued, adding that Trump has done more for Evangelicals and for Israel than most other presidents.

Reed also reacted to some television pundits who appeared to herald the news by calling Trump's relationship with Evangelicals "transactional."

In one instance, NBC News anchor Chuck Todd "President Trump essentially said 'look what I've done for you'," -- and presidential historian Jon Meacham asked whether Evangelical activists find new federal judgeships "worth" supporting the incumbent president.

"For them to say that it is transactional for us to support that moral good is insulting to our faith and our good judgment," Reed responded.


https://www.foxnews.com/media/ralph-reed...anity-yesterday

[sneakypete]

We don't "depose" in this constitutional representative republic. We vote people out of office if we're not satisfied with them.

 When a better candidate comes along, I'll vote for him. Many of us here are reluctant or lukewarm Trump supporters (if "supporters" even is the right word) who were hoping for a better candidate in 2016 and, frankly, were shocked and appalled when he became the GOP nominee. It's possible to appreciate some of his accomplishments and policy decisions without liking him as a person.

 We "hired" him to be our president,not our daddy. We are NOT required to like  him or even judge him as a relative or a friend. He is an EMPLOYEE that was "hired" to do a job. Period.

I personally don't give a rabid rats ass about his person life,what his daughter thinks,or what his favorite tv show is,and will never understand why anyone else cares.

I will continue to support him as long as he continues to do the job we "hired" him to do.

[Absalom]

Our Founding Fathers were all patriots.
So is Trump.
Why not try to imagine instead Schiff or Pelosi being a Founding Father. 
That will make you throw up.

--------------------------
Agree about each of them.
My point is that their behavior reflects their character which
would have been anathema during the period of our Founding.
As for Patriots, surely our Founders were, yet Trump certainly
is not, given his draft-dodging during the Viet-Nam War.

[Right_in_Virginia]

btw, this article is more in keeping with the values of Billy Graham than his son Franklin is....   

Billy Graham voted for Donald Trump. 

[PeteS in CA]

--------------------------
Agree about each of them.
My point is that their behavior reflects character which would
have been anathema during the period of our Founding.
As for Patriots, surely our Founders were, yet Trump certainly
is not given his  draft-dodging during the Viet-Nam War.

Being classified 2-S and later 1-Y is not "draft-dodging".

[libertybele]

My point remains.  If Evangelical Christians continue to support immorality and unethical behavior because it is “better than the alternative “ rather than stand strong for absolute values, then we have lost our influence in the world for Christ for the sake of politics.

Nothing Trump has done in the past four years has changed that reality.

Nothing???  I strongly disagree.  I now hear people wish me a "Merry Christmas" at this time of year; I thank our President.

Yes, we have lost our influence in the world for Christ for political correctness and I believe that the things that Trump has done and his re-alliance with Israel is a step in the positive.  Christians around the world are still being persecuted and in that there is no escape and certainly we won't be seen as a Christian nation if we vote in those who support late term abortion, same sex marriage, transgenderism, gays, and welcome terrorism with open borders and accept Sharia into our lives.     I couldn't decide whether to cut and paste or just direct to a link ... I felt more people would read the information and decide for themselves.  Yes Christianity has been trampled upon and I see that Trump has tried to take us the other way as the following information illustrates:

President Trump Has Been a Champion for Religious Freedom

Law & Justice

Issued on: February 8, 2018

   
Faith breathes life and hope into our world. We must diligently guard, preserve, and cherish this unalienable right.

President Donald J. Trump

STANDING UP FOR RELIGIOUS FREEDOM: In his first year in office, President Trump has taken strong action to restore the foundational link between freedom and faith in the United States of America.

    On May 4, 2017, the President signed an executive order to greatly enhance religious freedom and freedom of speech:
        taking action to ensure that religious institutions may freely exercise their First Amendment right to support and advocate for candidates and causes in line with their values; and
        ensuring that religious Americans and their organizations, such as the Little Sisters of the Poor, would not be forced to choose between violating their religious beliefs by complying with Obamacare’s contraceptive mandate or shutting their doors.
    The President has announced a reversal of the Obama administration’s policy denying disaster aid to houses of worship, allowing houses of worship to receive crucial aid in times of crisis.
    The Trump administration has taken a stand on behalf of religious liberty in the courts:
        supported students declared ineligible for a scholarship because they attended a religious school;
        supported the Archdiocese of Washington in its effort to buy ads for the holidays on public transportation; and
        supported baker Jack Phillips’s right to operate his bakery in accordance with his religious beliefs.
    In January 2018, the Trump administration took a stand for international religious freedom by placing Pakistan on a “Special Watch List” for severe violations of religious freedom and designated 10 others as countries of particular concern.
    The President declared January 18, 2018 to be Religious Freedom Day to “celebrate the many faiths that make up our country.”

PRIORITIZING RELIGIOUS FREEDOM IN THE ADMINISTRATION: President Trump has issued new policies to ensure religious freedom is a priority throughout the Federal Government.

    In October 2017, the Department of Justice issued twenty principles of religious liberty to guide the Administration’s litigation strategy to protect religious freedom.
    In January 2018, the Department of Health and Human Services (HHS) announced three major policy changes to protect freedom of religion:
        forming a new Conscience and Religious Freedom Division, providing HHS with the focus it needs to more vigorously and effectively enforce existing laws protecting the rights of conscience and religious freedom; and
        proposing to more vigorously enforce 25 existing statutory conscience protections for Americans involved in HHS programs, protecting Americans who have religious or moral convictions related to certain health care services.

PRESERVING THE SANCTITY OF LIFE: President Trump has stopped the attack on pro-life policies, implementing policies to enshrine sanctity of life as an American value.

    Within a week of taking office, President Trump reinstated and expanded the Mexico City Policy, which protects $9 billion in foreign aid from being used to fund the global abortion industry and its advocates.
    President Trump cut off taxpayer funding for the U.N. Population Fund.
    President Trump signed H.J. Res. 43 into law, overturning a midnight regulation by the Obama Administration, which prohibited States from defunding certain abortion facilities in their Federally funded family planning programs.
    President Trump expressed strong support for the Pain-Capable Unborn Child Protection Act, which would have stopped late-term abortions after 20 weeks of pregnancy—the point at which science tells us that an unborn child can experience pain.
    President Trump’s Administration issued guidance to enforce the requirement that taxpayer dollars not support abortion coverage in Obamacare exchange plans.
    President Trump rescinded an Obama-era policy that hindered States in their efforts to direct Medicaid funding away from abortion facilities that violate the law or fail to meet relevant standards of care.

BRINGING RELIGIOUS GROUPS BACK INTO THE FOLD: President Trump has made a consistent effort to reach out to religious groups and partners to bring them back into the policy making process.

    On February 2, 2017, just two weeks into his first term in office, President Trump spoke at the National Prayer Breakfast.
    On June 8, 2017, President Trump spoke at the Faith and Freedom Coalition’s Road to Majority Conference.
    On October 13, 2017, President Trump spoke at the Value Voters Summit.
    On January 19, 2018, President Trump became the first President to address the March for Life rally live via satellite.
        Vice President Mike Pence addressed the March for Life in 2017, becoming the first sitting Vice President to do so in person.

https://www.whitehouse.gov/briefings-statements/president-trump-champion-religious-freedom/

 

[dfwgator]

Franklin Graham also claims to speak FOR evangelicals, and he most certainly doesn’t speak for me, or many, many others.

It is exceedingly dangerous to make a highly flawed man an idol, and that is exactly what is happening with some of these leaders.’

Get back to the Gospel.

Would you rather have Jimmy Carter, who still teaches Sunday School, and as far as we know, has never had an affair?

I sure don't.

[IsailedawayfromFR]

My point remains.  If Evangelical Christians continue to support immorality and unethical behavior because it is “better than the alternative “ rather than stand strong for absolute values, then we have lost our influence in the world for Christ for the sake of politics.

Nothing Trump has done in the past four years has changed that reality.

You are living in a dream world.  You seem to believe you can find someone who is perfect in morality.

Guess what?  They do not exist.

Man by nature is evil and corrupt.  All of us.

The choice is which of the evil men or women in this world do you choose to support?  Those who have some good in them like Trump that we know are not always honorable and perfect, or the hypocrites like Kerry and Pelosi who espouse religious virtue in their pronounced Catholicism yet support killing of innocents every chance they get?

[Absalom]

Being classified 2-S and later 1-Y is not "draft-dodging".

----------------------------
One of Fred Trump's tenants was a Podiatrist who wanted lower rent;
in exchange, he diagnosed Donald w/bone spurs in his heels which
changed his initial draft classification from 1-A to 4-F later, by the Board.
The daughter of the Podiatrist, who was his Office Manager, publicly
stated after her Father's death, that what happened was an exchange
of favors! Reality, sorta like a quid pro quo!!!!!!!!!!!

[libertybele]

Would you rather have Jimmy Carter, who still teaches Sunday School, and as far as we know, has never had an affair?

I sure don't.

As far as him never having an affair that was disavowed by Jimmy himself who addmitted “I’ve looked on a lot of women with lust. I’ve committed adultery in my heart many times".  So I guess it depends on how you judge morality.

Jimmy Carter made some big mistakes in his presidency and created runaway inflation as never seen before nor since he let office.  His administration and presidency wasn't without scandal; the Iran hostage situation and the energy crisis -- those are ones that I remember. 

So was he good for country? No absolutely not.  Yes, he was labeled a humanitarian and a religious person and good man.  So ... in some eyes he was better for this country.  What I do know is that he became President right after Roe v Wade, the left has become far more radical since then and I would lay odds that if he were President today, the left would have had a field day with him.

[PeteS in CA]

----------------------------
One of Fred Trump's tenants was a Podiatrist who wanted lower rent;
in exchange, he diagnosed Donald w/bone spurs in his heels which
changed his initial draft classification from 1-A to 4-F later, by the Board.
The daughter of the Podiatrist, who was his Office Manager, publicly
stated after her Father's death, that what happened was an exchange
of favors! Reality, sorta like a quid pro quo!!!!!!!!!!!

1. Try walking a 10K or a half marathon with a heel bone spur or plantar fasciitis. Even with good shoes you will be in agony and barely able to walk, for days. BTDTGTTS.

2. This podiatrist, what did he say about it? Oh, yeah, his daughter said nothing until he was dead and her claim could not be fact-checked. Just TDS-fueled BS, same shtick as Blasey Ford and so many other politically motivated false accusers.