Author Topic: Lesson Within A Lesson  (Read 4529 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Offline ChemEngrMBA

  • TBR Advisory Committee
  • ***
  • Posts: 951
Lesson Within A Lesson
« on: December 12, 2019, 12:47:38 am »
This puzzle may be looked up but in the interest of learning, testing, and examining the results, I ask everyone
not to cheat. If you have read it before, please do not respond. This is for those who have never seen the most interesting puzzle.

A prison was overcrowded and the warden decided to free one prisoner. But rather than pick one at random, he thought he would give a test. So three prisoners were brought in to the warden's office and told the following.
"In this duffel bag are five hats. Three are black and two are red. The guard behind you will select them randomly and place one on each of your heads which you cannot see nor remove. If you can tell me the color of the hat on your head, you will be released immediately from prison. But to guard against guessing, you agree that if you guess and are wrong, you will be shot immediately."

All three prisoners agree and the hats are placed on each of their heads.

First prisoner looks at the other two hats and says, "I don't know.
Second prisoner looks at the other two hats and says, "I don't know."
Third prisoner says "I know." He happens to be blind.

Does he? Explain.

After several comments, I will give the correct answer and the Lesson Within This Lesson, which is applicable to many discussions everywhere on earth.
The Book Commentary: "The book (Brilliant Creations - The Wonder of Nature and Life) is pure genius."
Review by John Orosz, M.D. "It is beyond outstanding. Please send me twenty signed copies for colleagues, family, and libraries."
"I was running every morning for twenty years with a genius." - Mike McCartney, D.D.S.
"You have the most agile mind of anyone I know." -
Avice Marie Griffin, PhD, Clinical Psychologist

Online bigheadfred

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 18,511
  • Gender: Male
  • One day Closer
Re: Lesson Within A Lesson
« Reply #1 on: December 12, 2019, 01:06:55 am »
Do you want my answer now? Or in a personal message?

PM coming.
« Last Edit: December 12, 2019, 01:09:01 am by bigheadfred »
She asked me name my foe then. I said the need within some men to fight and kill their brothers without thought of Love or God. Ken Hensley

Offline ChemEngrMBA

  • TBR Advisory Committee
  • ***
  • Posts: 951
Re: Lesson Within A Lesson
« Reply #2 on: December 12, 2019, 01:19:35 am »
This puzzle may be looked up but in the interest of learning, testing, and examining the results, I ask everyone
not to cheat. If you have read it before, please do not respond. This is for those who have never seen the most interesting puzzle.

A prison was overcrowded and the warden decided to free one prisoner. But rather than pick one at random, he thought he would give a test. So three prisoners were brought in to the warden's office and told the following.
"In this duffel bag are five hats. Three are black and two are red. The guard behind you will select them randomly and place one on each of your heads which you cannot see nor remove. If you can tell me the color of the hat on your head, you will be released immediately from prison. But to guard against guessing, you agree that if you guess and are wrong, you will be shot immediately."

All three prisoners agree and the hats are placed on each of their heads.

First prisoner looks at the other two hats and says, "I don't know.
Second prisoner looks at the other two hats and says, "I don't know."
Third prisoner says "I know." He happens to be blind.

Does he? Explain.

After several comments, I will give the correct answer and the Lesson Within This Lesson, which is applicable to many discussions everywhere on earth.

Second Lesson* Within A Lesson  (*Same Lesson as above)

Old English Riddle

As I was walking to St Ives
I met a man with seven wives
Each wife had seven sacks
Each sack had seven cats
Each cat had seven kits
Kits, cats, sacks, wives, how many were going to St Ives?

The Book Commentary: "The book (Brilliant Creations - The Wonder of Nature and Life) is pure genius."
Review by John Orosz, M.D. "It is beyond outstanding. Please send me twenty signed copies for colleagues, family, and libraries."
"I was running every morning for twenty years with a genius." - Mike McCartney, D.D.S.
"You have the most agile mind of anyone I know." -
Avice Marie Griffin, PhD, Clinical Psychologist

Online bigheadfred

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 18,511
  • Gender: Male
  • One day Closer
Re: Lesson Within A Lesson
« Reply #3 on: December 12, 2019, 01:29:06 am »
Only one person knows. Per riddle.

The blind man and the riddler.

She asked me name my foe then. I said the need within some men to fight and kill their brothers without thought of Love or God. Ken Hensley

Online Cyber Liberty

  • Coffee! Donuts! Kittens!
  • Administrator
  • ******
  • Posts: 79,867
  • Gender: Male
  • 🌵🌵🌵
Re: Lesson Within A Lesson
« Reply #4 on: December 12, 2019, 02:11:52 am »
 :2popcorn:
For unvaccinated, we are looking at a winter of severe illness and death — if you’re unvaccinated — for themselves, their families, and the hospitals they’ll soon overwhelm. Sloe Joe Biteme 12/16
I will NOT comply.
 
Castillo del Cyber Autonomous Zone ~~~~~>                          :dontfeed:

Offline ChemEngrMBA

  • TBR Advisory Committee
  • ***
  • Posts: 951
Re: Lesson Within A Lesson
« Reply #5 on: December 12, 2019, 02:26:52 am »
:2popcorn:

Well played.  In other words, you can't solve either one.  So sit back and enjoy the lessons.
You will not forget them.
The Book Commentary: "The book (Brilliant Creations - The Wonder of Nature and Life) is pure genius."
Review by John Orosz, M.D. "It is beyond outstanding. Please send me twenty signed copies for colleagues, family, and libraries."
"I was running every morning for twenty years with a genius." - Mike McCartney, D.D.S.
"You have the most agile mind of anyone I know." -
Avice Marie Griffin, PhD, Clinical Psychologist

Online Cyber Liberty

  • Coffee! Donuts! Kittens!
  • Administrator
  • ******
  • Posts: 79,867
  • Gender: Male
  • 🌵🌵🌵
Re: Lesson Within A Lesson
« Reply #6 on: December 12, 2019, 02:41:09 am »
Well played.  In other words, you can't solve either one.  So sit back and enjoy the lessons.
You will not forget them.

Not with any certainty.  Not the kind I'd play with getting shot...lol
For unvaccinated, we are looking at a winter of severe illness and death — if you’re unvaccinated — for themselves, their families, and the hospitals they’ll soon overwhelm. Sloe Joe Biteme 12/16
I will NOT comply.
 
Castillo del Cyber Autonomous Zone ~~~~~>                          :dontfeed:

Online bigheadfred

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 18,511
  • Gender: Male
  • One day Closer
Re: Lesson Within A Lesson
« Reply #7 on: December 12, 2019, 02:52:59 am »
Not with any certainty.  Not the kind I'd play with getting shot...lol

PM
She asked me name my foe then. I said the need within some men to fight and kill their brothers without thought of Love or God. Ken Hensley

Offline ChemEngrMBA

  • TBR Advisory Committee
  • ***
  • Posts: 951
Re: Lesson Within A Lesson
« Reply #8 on: December 12, 2019, 03:01:22 am »
Not with any certainty.  Not the kind I'd play with getting shot...lol

You are not in the game. But even if you were, the solution will explain to you how there still would be no danger of "getting shot." 

This is turning out nicely.  Thanks to all who have participated. And even to those who have not.
Dontcha know nuffin?  Or are yas askeered? ****slapping
The Book Commentary: "The book (Brilliant Creations - The Wonder of Nature and Life) is pure genius."
Review by John Orosz, M.D. "It is beyond outstanding. Please send me twenty signed copies for colleagues, family, and libraries."
"I was running every morning for twenty years with a genius." - Mike McCartney, D.D.S.
"You have the most agile mind of anyone I know." -
Avice Marie Griffin, PhD, Clinical Psychologist

Online bigheadfred

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 18,511
  • Gender: Male
  • One day Closer
Re: Lesson Within A Lesson
« Reply #9 on: December 12, 2019, 03:05:20 am »
I ain't skeered. From my own perspective.
She asked me name my foe then. I said the need within some men to fight and kill their brothers without thought of Love or God. Ken Hensley

Offline ChemEngrMBA

  • TBR Advisory Committee
  • ***
  • Posts: 951
Re: Lesson Within A Lesson
« Reply #10 on: December 12, 2019, 02:00:16 pm »
Only one person knows. Per riddle.

The blind man and the riddler.

I can't wait any longer!  I give bigheadfred full credit for being the only one even to attempt to answer one, or both riddles.  Over 100 visits to this new Lesson and almost everyone passes on BOTH questions for the obvious reason that nobody has a clue. 

Solution to Prisoner Riddle

First prisoner looks at the other two and does NOT see two red hats. Therefore he could have red or black and he answers "I don't know."
Second prisoner looks just at third prisoner to see if HIS is red. If so, second prisoner knows his own is black BECAUSE prisoner one did NOT see two red.  Since he does NOT see red, he says "I don't know."
Third prisoner is very smart and reasons that his must be black, so he says "I'm wearing black.  Buh bye!"

Solution to English Riddle

"Kits, cats, sacks, wives, how many (of those!) are going to St Ives?"  --Zero.  None.
They are coming from St Ives as they met the other traveler, en Francais on dit "face en face".

Lesson One

Even with all of the information, different people reach very different conclusions, for all sorts of reasons.   


Lesson Within That Lesson


The same is obviously true when discussing politics, science, or anything else.  Facts are secondary to how those facts are interpreted. The Left invariably descends into "You're stupid and anti-science" and so the Right, frustrated by being called stupid and anti-science*, resorts to name-calling as well.

Evolution or climate change discussion, anyone?

[* "Flying spaghetti monster, goddidit, bible-thumper, flat earther, Anyone who doesn't believe in evolution is either ignorant, stupid, insane or wicked. - Richard Dawkins"]
The Book Commentary: "The book (Brilliant Creations - The Wonder of Nature and Life) is pure genius."
Review by John Orosz, M.D. "It is beyond outstanding. Please send me twenty signed copies for colleagues, family, and libraries."
"I was running every morning for twenty years with a genius." - Mike McCartney, D.D.S.
"You have the most agile mind of anyone I know." -
Avice Marie Griffin, PhD, Clinical Psychologist

Offline thackney

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 12,267
  • Gender: Male
Re: Lesson Within A Lesson
« Reply #11 on: December 12, 2019, 02:26:00 pm »
I can't wait any longer!  I give bigheadfred full credit for being the only one even to attempt to answer one, or both riddles.  Over 100 visits to this new Lesson and almost everyone passes on BOTH questions for the obvious reason that nobody has a clue.

No, we just don't care.
Life is fragile, handle with prayer

Offline ChemEngrMBA

  • TBR Advisory Committee
  • ***
  • Posts: 951
Re: Lesson Within A Lesson
« Reply #12 on: December 12, 2019, 02:49:06 pm »
thackney
Re: Lesson Within A Lesson
« Reply #11 on: Today at 09:26:00 AM »
Quote
You are ignoring this user. Show me the post.

//////////////////

Lesson to thackney:

Not interested in reading anything written by thackney.
The Book Commentary: "The book (Brilliant Creations - The Wonder of Nature and Life) is pure genius."
Review by John Orosz, M.D. "It is beyond outstanding. Please send me twenty signed copies for colleagues, family, and libraries."
"I was running every morning for twenty years with a genius." - Mike McCartney, D.D.S.
"You have the most agile mind of anyone I know." -
Avice Marie Griffin, PhD, Clinical Psychologist

Online bigheadfred

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 18,511
  • Gender: Male
  • One day Closer
Re: Lesson Within A Lesson
« Reply #13 on: December 13, 2019, 12:26:04 am »
Ok.

Since prisoner three is blind, all hats are black to him. He doesn't have to be any smarter than that.

"Kits, cats, sacks, wives, how many (of those!) are going to St Ives?"

(of those) is an assumption. POV of the narrator, one is going to St. Ives.





She asked me name my foe then. I said the need within some men to fight and kill their brothers without thought of Love or God. Ken Hensley

Offline ChemEngrMBA

  • TBR Advisory Committee
  • ***
  • Posts: 951
Re: Lesson Within A Lesson
« Reply #14 on: December 13, 2019, 12:37:51 am »
Ok.
Since prisoner three is blind, all hats are black to him. He doesn't have to be any smarter than that.
"Kits, cats, sacks, wives, how many (of those!) are going to St Ives?"
(of those) is an assumption. POV of the narrator, one is going to St. Ives.

Fred, the blind prisoner is NOT the arbiter of which hats are red and which are black.  Nor will he determine whether the warden will have him shot or not.  All hats are NOT "black to him."  All he sees is blackness.

Ask an English professor about the reflexive nature of pronouns.    When you say for example, "I love people who eat donuts, they're really tasty" do you think "they" refers to people or donuts?
The pronoun always refers to the previous noun, or nouns in the case of St Ives riddle.

I know you desperately want to be right, but the Lesson Within A Lesson is that everyone wants to be right and very many misuse words and reason to achieve their assumed rectitude.  You are doing precisely that, my friend, on both riddles.
The Book Commentary: "The book (Brilliant Creations - The Wonder of Nature and Life) is pure genius."
Review by John Orosz, M.D. "It is beyond outstanding. Please send me twenty signed copies for colleagues, family, and libraries."
"I was running every morning for twenty years with a genius." - Mike McCartney, D.D.S.
"You have the most agile mind of anyone I know." -
Avice Marie Griffin, PhD, Clinical Psychologist

Online bigheadfred

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 18,511
  • Gender: Male
  • One day Closer
Re: Lesson Within A Lesson
« Reply #15 on: December 13, 2019, 12:52:12 am »
Fred, the blind prisoner is NOT the arbiter of which hats are red and which are black.  Nor will he determine whether the warden will have him shot or not.  All hats are NOT "black to him."  All he sees is blackness.

Ask an English professor about the reflexive nature of pronouns.    When you say for example, "I love people who eat donuts, they're really tasty" do you think "they" refers to people or donuts?
The pronoun always refers to the previous noun, or nouns in the case of St Ives riddle.

I know you desperately want to be right, but the Lesson Within A Lesson is that everyone wants to be right and very many misuse words and reason to achieve their assumed rectitude.  You are doing precisely that, my friend, on both riddles.

I'm not that desperate. You do know the word "destitution" is the combination of destiny and evolution?  wink777
She asked me name my foe then. I said the need within some men to fight and kill their brothers without thought of Love or God. Ken Hensley

Offline ChemEngrMBA

  • TBR Advisory Committee
  • ***
  • Posts: 951
Re: Lesson Within A Lesson
« Reply #16 on: December 13, 2019, 04:50:53 pm »
I'm not that desperate. You do know the word "destitution" is the combination of destiny and evolution?  wink777

Fred, Fred, Fred, what are we going to do with you?

I said "desperate."  You change that to "destitution," the condition of being destitute.

Here are the respective definitions:

desperate
[ˈdesp(ə)rət]

ADJECTIVE
feeling, showing, or involving a hopeless sense that a situation is so bad as to be impossible to deal with.


destitute
[ˈdestəˌt(y)o͞ot]

ADJECTIVE
without the basic necessities of life.


Show the audience any destiny or evolution, Fred.
The Book Commentary: "The book (Brilliant Creations - The Wonder of Nature and Life) is pure genius."
Review by John Orosz, M.D. "It is beyond outstanding. Please send me twenty signed copies for colleagues, family, and libraries."
"I was running every morning for twenty years with a genius." - Mike McCartney, D.D.S.
"You have the most agile mind of anyone I know." -
Avice Marie Griffin, PhD, Clinical Psychologist

Online bigheadfred

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 18,511
  • Gender: Male
  • One day Closer
Re: Lesson Within A Lesson
« Reply #17 on: December 14, 2019, 02:29:50 am »
Evolution or climate change discussion, anyone?

Your words.

I don't need your reflexive admonitions. Basing your knowledge on predications. You paint yourself into a corner while accusing others of doing the same. Thereby missing the lesson, not to even mention that other lesson.

MY point is that the destiny of evolution is destitution.

"there is nothing new under the the sun" 

What is that? Preaching to the (in)quire?

She asked me name my foe then. I said the need within some men to fight and kill their brothers without thought of Love or God. Ken Hensley

Online bigheadfred

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 18,511
  • Gender: Male
  • One day Closer
Re: Lesson Within A Lesson
« Reply #18 on: December 14, 2019, 02:58:13 am »
@PeteS in CA

Just a ring. (tubsex)

She asked me name my foe then. I said the need within some men to fight and kill their brothers without thought of Love or God. Ken Hensley

Offline Absalom

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 4,375
Re: Lesson Within A Lesson
« Reply #19 on: December 14, 2019, 02:59:21 am »
Hmm............is there a lesson here or are these simply words looking for attention???
The word Evolution was mentioned; defined as gradual development over time from simple to complex.
Darwin's "Origin of the Species" used the word to define the development of Mankind.
Yet while intriguing and provocative, Evolution remains an unproven theory per the rigorous Laws of Science, 160 years after its publication!!!



Online bigheadfred

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 18,511
  • Gender: Male
  • One day Closer
Re: Lesson Within A Lesson
« Reply #20 on: December 14, 2019, 05:44:33 am »
Hmm............is there a lesson here or are these simply words looking for attention???
The word Evolution was mentioned; defined as gradual development over time from simple to complex.
Darwin's "Origin of the Species" used the word to define the development of Mankind.
Yet while intriguing and provocative, Evolution remains an unproven theory per the rigorous Laws of Science, 160 years after its publication!!!

160 years later that theory is nothing more than it ever was. A supposition.

All of the evidence shows the opposite. Meaning they have never found the missing link.

The evidence shows that all cultures have regarded themselves to be some thing other than evolved. IN any culture, no matter how far they are removed from "US". And I say you can put that in any time frame for the last 200,000 years.
She asked me name my foe then. I said the need within some men to fight and kill their brothers without thought of Love or God. Ken Hensley

Offline Hoodat

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 35,815
Re: Lesson Within A Lesson
« Reply #21 on: December 14, 2019, 06:05:05 am »
Answer:





If the first prisoner saw two reds, then he would know he had black.  So either 2 or 3 (or both) had black.
Likewise, if 2 saw two red hats, then he would know he had black.  So either 1 or 3 (or both) had black.  But if 3 had red, then 2 would know his own color was black.  So since he didn't knw, then 3 couldn't have red.  Therefore, 3 must have black.
If a political party does not have its foundation in the determination to advance a cause that is right and that is moral, then it is not a political party; it is merely a conspiracy to seize power.

-Dwight Eisenhower-


"The [U.S.] Constitution is a limitation on the government, not on private individuals ... it does not prescribe the conduct of private individuals, only the conduct of the government ... it is not a charter for government power, but a charter of the citizen's protection against the government."

-Ayn Rand-

Offline Hoodat

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 35,815
Re: Lesson Within A Lesson
« Reply #22 on: December 14, 2019, 06:07:35 am »
Second Lesson* Within A Lesson  (*Same Lesson as above)

Old English Riddle

As I was walking to St Ives
I met a man with seven wives
Each wife had seven sacks
Each sack had seven cats
Each cat had seven kits
Kits, cats, sacks, wives, how many were going to St Ives?

This one was in the Diehard movie with Jeremy Irons.
If a political party does not have its foundation in the determination to advance a cause that is right and that is moral, then it is not a political party; it is merely a conspiracy to seize power.

-Dwight Eisenhower-


"The [U.S.] Constitution is a limitation on the government, not on private individuals ... it does not prescribe the conduct of private individuals, only the conduct of the government ... it is not a charter for government power, but a charter of the citizen's protection against the government."

-Ayn Rand-

Offline Hoodat

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 35,815
Re: Lesson Within A Lesson
« Reply #23 on: December 14, 2019, 06:14:06 am »
Solution to English Riddle

"Kits, cats, sacks, wives, how many (of those!) are going to St Ives?"  --Zero.  None.
They are coming from St Ives as they met the other traveler, en Francais on dit "face en face".

Au contraire, mon frere.  The answer is one.
If a political party does not have its foundation in the determination to advance a cause that is right and that is moral, then it is not a political party; it is merely a conspiracy to seize power.

-Dwight Eisenhower-


"The [U.S.] Constitution is a limitation on the government, not on private individuals ... it does not prescribe the conduct of private individuals, only the conduct of the government ... it is not a charter for government power, but a charter of the citizen's protection against the government."

-Ayn Rand-

Online bigheadfred

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 18,511
  • Gender: Male
  • One day Closer
Re: Lesson Within A Lesson
« Reply #24 on: December 14, 2019, 07:08:51 am »
Answer:





If the first prisoner saw two reds, then he would know he had black.  So either 2 or 3 (or both) had black.
Likewise, if 2 saw two red hats, then he would know he had black.  So either 1 or 3 (or both) had black.  But if 3 had red, then 2 would know his own color was black.  So since he didn't knw, then 3 couldn't have red.  Therefore, 3 must have black.

I see it this way.This is a decision based upon visual clues.  Prisoner 3 is blind. He has no visual clues as to what any other prisoners are doing. He doesn't know how p1 makes his decision. He doesn't know how p2 makes his decision. He is the arbiter of his destiny.

@DeerSlayer calls upon English professors and then adds

They are coming from St Ives as they met the other traveler, en Francais on dit "face en face".

English professors and the "French" to make your point?

Yeah. No.



She asked me name my foe then. I said the need within some men to fight and kill their brothers without thought of Love or God. Ken Hensley