Author Topic: Republicans are leading the country to socialism  (Read 1306 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Offline EasyAce

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 10,385
  • Gender: Male
  • RIP Blue, 2012-2020---my big, gentle friend.
Republicans are leading the country to socialism
« on: December 03, 2019, 04:24:39 pm »
By Shikha Dalmia
https://theweek.com/articles/862828/republicans-are-leading-country-socialism

Quote
There are plenty of conservatives who don't particularly care for President Trump, but wouldn't call themselves NeverTrumpers. Yet they are reluctant to call out the president's daily political provocations because they see the growing allure of socialism among Democrats as a bigger threat to the country. This is a profound mistake that will backfire: If Trump's tyranny of ill intentions isn't defeated, the Democrats' tyranny of good intentions — aka socialism — may well become inevitable . . .

. . . [E]ven the normally placid Senate Majority Leader Mitch McConnell (R-Ky.) is now dramatically declaring that in 2020, Republicans will build a "firewall that saves the country from socialism."

If only!

In truth, Republicans may well deliver the country to "socialism" if they don't ditch Trump's America First ideology — which is every bit as Big Government as socialism, but without any pretense of a higher purpose.

Socialism subordinates the interests of individuals in the name of a utopian egalitarianism, producing terrible results wherever tried. And yet it manages to seduce people because it purports to advance a just society . . . But America First divides the world into us versus them, insiders versus outsiders — and then uses the full power of the state to advance the interests of the former without much regard for fairness toward the latter. It's a fundamentally tribal approach to politics where (state) might makes right . . .

. . . Trump won't slap billionaires with confiscatory taxes or regulate them out of existence, as Bernie or Warren might do, but he'll happily use state power to make them do their patriotic duty. This is just as statist as the "socialists" conservatives fear . . . Republicans, at least since Ronald Reagan, had offered liberty as that higher purpose. But if conservatives don't push back against Trump's America First, they'll signal that all their pious talk about limited government and freedom was merely a ruse to protect majoritarian privilege. They won't have anything left to counter Democratic calls for socialism . . .


"The question of who is right is a small one, indeed, beside the question of what is right."---Albert Jay Nock.

Fake news---news you don't like or don't want to hear.

Offline Hoodat

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 36,835
Re: Republicans are leading the country to socialism
« Reply #1 on: December 03, 2019, 05:00:36 pm »
Quote
In truth, Republicans may well deliver the country to "socialism" if they don't ditch Trump's America First ideology — which is every bit as Big Government as socialism, but without any pretense of a higher purpose.

Republicans have been driving towards socialism long before Trump came on the scene.  The greatest thing they could possibly do to thwart socialism would be to eliminate deficit spending.
If a political party does not have its foundation in the determination to advance a cause that is right and that is moral, then it is not a political party; it is merely a conspiracy to seize power.

-Dwight Eisenhower-


"The [U.S.] Constitution is a limitation on the government, not on private individuals ... it does not prescribe the conduct of private individuals, only the conduct of the government ... it is not a charter for government power, but a charter of the citizen's protection against the government."

-Ayn Rand-

Offline EasyAce

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 10,385
  • Gender: Male
  • RIP Blue, 2012-2020---my big, gentle friend.
Re: Republicans are leading the country to socialism
« Reply #2 on: December 03, 2019, 05:22:11 pm »
The greatest thing they could possibly do to thwart socialism would be to eliminate deficit spending.
@Hoodat

As far back as 1978, George F. Will isolated a pretty point: Today's conservative has reached into his heart of hearts, prayed hard, and decided it was high time that the government cut his neighbour's benefits.

That said, for long enough since Republicans have told Democrats, essentially, "You can't run up the debt and the deficit---only we can run up the debt and the deficit![/i]"

But standing athwart socialism requires far more than yelling "Stop!" to deficits. It requires yelling "Stop!" to government as a public nuisance, the inevitable consequence of the long-entrenched national faith that life begins with the State, instead of the should-be afterthought of a properly construed government restricted only such business (and such implicit Constitutional restriction) as is required to 1) protect and defend people against a) enemies actual or provably iminent from abroad and b) predators at home (real predators, not mere vicemongers); and, 2) bar one from obstructing or abrogating another's equivalent rights.

Which is, I admit, a fancy way of saying the country and everyone living here do not need to be "governed"; they (we) need to be left alone until or unless anyone commits an actual crime against anyone else. But I grant that that is expressing thoughts that have been light years above the State's pay grade---from the president (the last several presidents) to Congress and even to too many of the states.
« Last Edit: December 03, 2019, 05:23:30 pm by EasyAce »


"The question of who is right is a small one, indeed, beside the question of what is right."---Albert Jay Nock.

Fake news---news you don't like or don't want to hear.

Offline Hoodat

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 36,835
Re: Republicans are leading the country to socialism
« Reply #3 on: December 03, 2019, 07:01:40 pm »
Actually addressing the deficit will by default force them to address the Great Wealth Redistribution Scheme.

Every single dollar paid in federal income tax goes to a direct cash payment to another individual.  And we still come up short.
If a political party does not have its foundation in the determination to advance a cause that is right and that is moral, then it is not a political party; it is merely a conspiracy to seize power.

-Dwight Eisenhower-


"The [U.S.] Constitution is a limitation on the government, not on private individuals ... it does not prescribe the conduct of private individuals, only the conduct of the government ... it is not a charter for government power, but a charter of the citizen's protection against the government."

-Ayn Rand-

Offline Absalom

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 4,375
Re: Republicans are leading the country to socialism
« Reply #4 on: December 03, 2019, 07:03:36 pm »
The French Enlightenment of 18th century Europe, was a revolt against the established order
exemplified by Monarchy and the Roman Catholic Church.
It's core assertion was that his material betterment was one of Man's highest aspirations
and key to his self-fulfillment in life.
The consequences of this sea-change in attitude and perspective was to erode Man's spiritual sensibilities, which had been the bedrock for the values/virtues governing his behavior since Eden.
Those believing otherwise, assess the quality of the Art Man had/has produced, however defined,
before and after the Enlightenment. Mankind is certainly not better off for this change
The nostrum of material betterment, ushered in our isms; principally socialism and capitalism;
along w/its posse of self-labeled leaders, the politicians.
They have become the bus-drivers of culture/society; oblivious to consequence and plain people
are and will pay the price for this. D and R labels are irrelevant and meaningless.
In simple words, we have lost our way and having "more stuff" ain't gonna help us find the right path! 

 

Offline Jazzhead

  • Blue lives matter
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 11,593
  • Gender: Male
Re: Republicans are leading the country to socialism
« Reply #5 on: December 03, 2019, 07:41:31 pm »
Republicans are leading the country to socialism by nominating for re-election a candidate who is despised by fully half the nation.   They are creating the conditions by which the Dems could nominate a full-blown socialist and still get him or her elected -  conditions that would never exist, IMO, if Trump were not the nominee.

This is the present danger - that Trump will prove to be an effective distraction for the election of a socialist.   It is imperative, IMO, that Trump agree not to run for re-election.     
It's crackers to slip a rozzer the dropsy in snide

Online GtHawk

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 18,915
  • Gender: Male
  • I don't believe in Trump anymore, he's an illusion
Re: Republicans are leading the country to socialism
« Reply #6 on: December 03, 2019, 08:38:48 pm »
Republicans are leading the country to socialism by nominating for re-election a candidate who is despised by fully half the nation.   They are creating the conditions by which the Dems could nominate a full-blown socialist and still get him or her elected -  conditions that would never exist, IMO, if Trump were not the nominee.

This is the present danger - that Trump will prove to be an effective distraction for the election of a socialist.   It is imperative, IMO, that Trump agree not to run for re-election.   
Go tell the man :silly:

Online roamer_1

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 44,019
Re: Republicans are leading the country to socialism
« Reply #7 on: December 03, 2019, 09:00:50 pm »
Socialism is not winning on merit.
It has no merit.
Socialism is winning because it has no opposition.

Online berdie

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 5,870
Re: Republicans are leading the country to socialism
« Reply #8 on: December 03, 2019, 09:18:05 pm »

Socialism is winning because it has no opposition.


Agreed @roamer_1 . And that is because "the People" all think they are gonna get "free stuff"...because they are dumb.

Online roamer_1

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 44,019
Re: Republicans are leading the country to socialism
« Reply #9 on: December 03, 2019, 09:31:20 pm »

Agreed @roamer_1 . And that is because "the People" all think they are gonna get "free stuff"...because they are dumb.

I don't see it that way @berdie ...
Them Republicans are ultra conservative around election time.
Then they do otherwise once they are in.
The point being that the people are voting conservative...
It's the 'doing otherwise' that is the problem.

The thing I resent in the people is the 'lesser evil' shtick. Nothing will get fixed until that particular lie is put to rest.

Offline Absalom

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 4,375
Re: Republicans are leading the country to socialism
« Reply #10 on: December 04, 2019, 02:45:26 pm »
I don't see it that way @berdie ...
Them Republicans are ultra conservative around election time.
Then they do otherwise once they are in.
The point being that the people are voting conservative...
It's the 'doing otherwise' that is the problem.
The thing I resent in the people is the 'lesser evil' shtick. Nothing will get fixed until that particular lie is put to rest.
----------------------------
A strong demurral.
The republicans never had anything to do w/principled conservatism; not for a day!
Beginning w/Fremont of Cal in 1856, they were a  business party representing the New England Merchant Class, later morphing into the party of big business as industrialism became the face of capitalism.
They promoted/represented:
* strong central government and opposition to states rights.
* rejection of free trade and maximum protection  of our" infant industries"; as doofus McKinley of Ohio ranted.
* judicial activism.
They held the levers of power from Lincoln to Hoover, some 70 years, and put in place the governance we have, here and now!!!
« Last Edit: December 04, 2019, 08:22:52 pm by Absalom »

Offline Smokin Joe

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 56,894
  • I was a "conspiracy theorist". Now I'm just right.
Re: Republicans are leading the country to socialism
« Reply #11 on: December 04, 2019, 02:51:54 pm »
The French Enlightenment of 18th century Europe, was a revolt against the established order
exemplified by Monarchy and the Roman Catholic Church.
It's core assertion was that his material betterment was one of Man's highest aspirations
and key to his self-fulfillment in life.
The consequences of this sea-change in attitude and perspective was to erode Man's spiritual sensibilities, which had been the bedrock for the values/virtues governing his behavior since Eden.
Those believing otherwise, assess the quality of the Art Man had/has produced, however defined,
before and after the Enlightenment. Mankind is certainly not better off for this change
The nostrum of material betterment, ushered in our isms; principally socialism and capitalism;
along w/its posse of self-labeled leaders, the politicians.
They have become the bus-drivers of culture/society; oblivious to consequence and plain people
are and will pay the price for this. D and R labels are irrelevant and meaningless.
In simple words, we have lost our way and having "more stuff" ain't gonna help us find the right path!
Well said.

The chief allure of Socialism is that it is presented to the masses as if it will elevate them to the same level of wealth and ability as those they envy. The harsh reality is that the equality of Socialism has never elevated anyone not in it's governing elite, instead it has imposed equally debased levels of misery on those who fall within it's reach, and removed the option to be or have more.

Within it all, the emphasis on material, rather than spiritual wealth, dooms followers to an insatiable dissatisfaction, whether they can get stronger doses of material goods or not.
How God must weep at humans' folly! Stand fast! God knows what he is doing!
Seventeen Techniques for Truth Suppression

Of all tyrannies, a tyranny sincerely exercised for the good of its victims may be the most oppressive. It would be better to live under robber barons than under omnipotent moral busybodies. The robber baron's cruelty may sometimes sleep, his cupidity may at some point be satiated; but those who torment us for our own good will torment us without end for they do so with the approval of their own conscience.

C S Lewis

Offline Smokin Joe

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 56,894
  • I was a "conspiracy theorist". Now I'm just right.
Re: Republicans are leading the country to socialism
« Reply #12 on: December 04, 2019, 02:54:38 pm »
Republicans are leading the country to socialism by nominating for re-election a candidate who is despised by fully half the nation.   They are creating the conditions by which the Dems could nominate a full-blown socialist and still get him or her elected -  conditions that would never exist, IMO, if Trump were not the nominee.

This is the present danger - that Trump will prove to be an effective distraction for the election of a socialist.   It is imperative, IMO, that Trump agree not to run for re-election.   
40% of the nation is almost hardwired by programming to despise whoever is in office, the two sides making 80%. Pretty much a given, there.

Of the other 20%, they either don't care, don't pay attention, or vote for their bellies to be full.

(Keep in mind that is of the 61% voting, that isn't including the 29% who didn't vote at all, and that is the group to reach.)

Who would you propose to run, then, for POTUS to oppose the well backed (Media and money) socialists?
« Last Edit: December 04, 2019, 02:57:18 pm by Smokin Joe »
How God must weep at humans' folly! Stand fast! God knows what he is doing!
Seventeen Techniques for Truth Suppression

Of all tyrannies, a tyranny sincerely exercised for the good of its victims may be the most oppressive. It would be better to live under robber barons than under omnipotent moral busybodies. The robber baron's cruelty may sometimes sleep, his cupidity may at some point be satiated; but those who torment us for our own good will torment us without end for they do so with the approval of their own conscience.

C S Lewis

Online roamer_1

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 44,019
Re: Republicans are leading the country to socialism
« Reply #13 on: December 04, 2019, 03:11:26 pm »
----------------------------
A strong demurral.
The republicans never had anything to do w/principled conservatism; not for a day!
Beginning w/Fremont of Cal in 1856, they were a  business party representing the New England Merchant Class, later morphing into the party of big business as industrialism became the face of capitalism.
They promoted/represented:
* strong central government and opposition to states rights.
* rejection of free trade and maximum protection  of our" infant industries"; as doofus McKinley of Ohio ranted.
* judicial activism.
The held the levers of power from Lincoln to Hoover, some 70 years, and put in place the governance we have, here and now!!!

If you would reread what I wrote, we are largely in agreement. To summarize, I said that Republicans merely pay lip service to Conservatism at election time, and do not practice it in office.

Nevertheless, your post neglects the bare fact that Conservatism, as it intersects politics in the US, resides only in the civil-libertarian right wing of the Republican party, and ONLY in that right wing. As to the moderate wing and back east big money liberal wing of the Republican party, we are in vast agreement.

But American Conservatism in politics, in my lifetime and my father's, is defined by Goldwater and Reagan.

And it irks me, by the way, that you would cause me to rise in defense of Republicans ~ An organization I loathe for its failure to provide defense against the rise of socialism.  *****rollingeyes*****  Jussayin.

Offline Smokin Joe

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 56,894
  • I was a "conspiracy theorist". Now I'm just right.
Re: Republicans are leading the country to socialism
« Reply #14 on: December 04, 2019, 03:22:03 pm »
If you would reread what I wrote, we are largely in agreement. To summarize, I said that Republicans merely pay lip service to Conservatism at election time, and do not practice it in office.

Nevertheless, your post neglects the bare fact that Conservatism, as it intersects politics in the US, resides only in the civil-libertarian right wing of the Republican party, and ONLY in that right wing. As to the moderate wing and back east big money liberal wing of the Republican party, we are in vast agreement.

But American Conservatism in politics, in my lifetime and my father's, is defined by Goldwater and Reagan.

And it irks me, by the way, that you would cause me to rise in defense of Republicans ~ An organization I loathe for its failure to provide defense against the rise of socialism.  *****rollingeyes*****  Jussayin.
Well, I think y'all are in agreement. One is saying the Republicans have been the party of special interests (mercantile) since inception, andnever really Conservative per se, only when it suited their goals.
The other is saying essentially the same thing, one of those goals being reelection, of course.

The civil libertarians, Constitutionalists, and Originalists have voted Republican in the past because it was the closest they could get to their beliefs, and the other crew were farther away.

The problem is that the GOP has, by its actions, left the proverbial reservation, and slid to the Left my entire lifetime, which makes it increasingly difficult to defend. Which is why I vote for the candidate over party, sometimes even though I know they'll lose. Anyone wearing the Democrat label is a deal-breaker, too.
How God must weep at humans' folly! Stand fast! God knows what he is doing!
Seventeen Techniques for Truth Suppression

Of all tyrannies, a tyranny sincerely exercised for the good of its victims may be the most oppressive. It would be better to live under robber barons than under omnipotent moral busybodies. The robber baron's cruelty may sometimes sleep, his cupidity may at some point be satiated; but those who torment us for our own good will torment us without end for they do so with the approval of their own conscience.

C S Lewis

Online bigheadfred

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 18,647
  • Gender: Male
  • One day Closer
Re: Republicans are leading the country to socialism
« Reply #15 on: December 04, 2019, 03:30:12 pm »
They don't even rinse anymore. Both sides. Repeat after repeat.
She asked me name my foe then. I said the need within some men to fight and kill their brothers without thought of Love or God. Ken Hensley

Offline Smokin Joe

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 56,894
  • I was a "conspiracy theorist". Now I'm just right.
Re: Republicans are leading the country to socialism
« Reply #16 on: December 04, 2019, 03:34:14 pm »
They don't even rinse anymore. Both sides. Repeat after repeat.
Yeah, but they lather a lot (foam at the mouth, more like it).
How God must weep at humans' folly! Stand fast! God knows what he is doing!
Seventeen Techniques for Truth Suppression

Of all tyrannies, a tyranny sincerely exercised for the good of its victims may be the most oppressive. It would be better to live under robber barons than under omnipotent moral busybodies. The robber baron's cruelty may sometimes sleep, his cupidity may at some point be satiated; but those who torment us for our own good will torment us without end for they do so with the approval of their own conscience.

C S Lewis

Online roamer_1

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 44,019
Re: Republicans are leading the country to socialism
« Reply #17 on: December 04, 2019, 03:37:09 pm »
Well, I think y'all are in agreement. One is saying the Republicans have been the party of special interests (mercantile) since inception, andnever really Conservative per se, only when it suited their goals.
The other is saying essentially the same thing, one of those goals being reelection, of course.

The civil libertarians, Constitutionalists, and Originalists have voted Republican in the past because it was the closest they could get to their beliefs, and the other crew were farther away.


That is right more or less... Except in that the only definition of Conservatism in American politics is in the principles laid out in Goldwater and Reagan. That IS US Conservatism.

I hasten to add again, 'as it intersects American politics', as the principles of Conservatism historically are not limited to politics, and I understand political conservatism to be a segment of the whole. 

Quote
The problem is that the GOP has, by its actions, left the proverbial reservation, and slid to the Left my entire lifetime, which makes it increasingly difficult to defend. Which is why I vote for the candidate over party, sometimes even though I know they'll lose. Anyone wearing the Democrat label is a deal-breaker, too.

That's right.
« Last Edit: December 04, 2019, 03:38:19 pm by roamer_1 »

Online roamer_1

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 44,019
Re: Republicans are leading the country to socialism
« Reply #18 on: December 04, 2019, 03:39:54 pm »
They don't even rinse anymore. Both sides. Repeat after repeat.

... and it smells like a Nirvana concert.  *****rollingeyes*****

Online bigheadfred

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 18,647
  • Gender: Male
  • One day Closer
Re: Republicans are leading the country to socialism
« Reply #19 on: December 04, 2019, 03:42:24 pm »
Yeah, but they lather a lot (foam at the mouth, more like it).

Right. Foamenting.
She asked me name my foe then. I said the need within some men to fight and kill their brothers without thought of Love or God. Ken Hensley

Online Cyber Liberty

  • Coffee! Donuts! Kittens!
  • Administrator
  • ******
  • Posts: 80,412
  • Gender: Male
  • 🌵🌵🌵
Re: Republicans are leading the country to socialism
« Reply #20 on: December 04, 2019, 04:39:39 pm »
Then we should throw all Republicans out of office, and leave the Rats free to do it because they know how to do it better.
For unvaccinated, we are looking at a winter of severe illness and death — if you’re unvaccinated — for themselves, their families, and the hospitals they’ll soon overwhelm. Sloe Joe Biteme 12/16
I will NOT comply.
 
Castillo del Cyber Autonomous Zone ~~~~~>                          :dontfeed:

Online roamer_1

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 44,019
Re: Republicans are leading the country to socialism
« Reply #21 on: December 04, 2019, 04:40:33 pm »
Then we should throw all Republicans out of office, and leave the Rats free to do it because they know how to do it better.

I say throw all the bastards out and start over.

Online bigheadfred

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 18,647
  • Gender: Male
  • One day Closer
Re: Republicans are leading the country to socialism
« Reply #22 on: December 04, 2019, 04:43:10 pm »
I say throw all the bastards out and start over.

 :thumbsup:
She asked me name my foe then. I said the need within some men to fight and kill their brothers without thought of Love or God. Ken Hensley

Online Cyber Liberty

  • Coffee! Donuts! Kittens!
  • Administrator
  • ******
  • Posts: 80,412
  • Gender: Male
  • 🌵🌵🌵
Re: Republicans are leading the country to socialism
« Reply #23 on: December 04, 2019, 04:54:43 pm »
I say throw all the bastards out and start over.

he Rat voters are perfectly happy with their rascals, so all we can really do is throw out the Republican bastards.  I know you favor that, but it would lead to Rat Hegemony.
For unvaccinated, we are looking at a winter of severe illness and death — if you’re unvaccinated — for themselves, their families, and the hospitals they’ll soon overwhelm. Sloe Joe Biteme 12/16
I will NOT comply.
 
Castillo del Cyber Autonomous Zone ~~~~~>                          :dontfeed:

Online roamer_1

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 44,019
Re: Republicans are leading the country to socialism
« Reply #24 on: December 04, 2019, 04:56:53 pm »
he Rat voters are perfectly happy with their rascals, so all we can really do is throw out the Republican bastards.  I know you favor that, but it would lead to Rat Hegemony.

It would also lead to a clean, determined, and dedicated opposition...
which voting for the lesser evil causes to never occur.