2 million Americans don’t have access to running water and basic plumbing

[roamer_1]

Well...being able to do without and being o.k. with the long term are two different things, lol. I really like having a potty and running water inside. And if I ever get truly surly on this board it's because for some reason I don't have hot water for a shower.

But I salute your tolerance! @roamer_1 

Believe it or not, @berdie ... I have generally always had a hot shower every night... Except in the summer, when I would much rather bathe in the creek by way of the swimmin hole. Life that way is very dirty, and I like to be clean before I go to bed.

And running water is not hard to do. Hot water is a bit tougher, it being easier to just boil up a load on a fire outside... But it is doable, if you have the forethought to build a wood furnace outside. Then it is a really easy thing to build a circulating water boiler. So a hot shower is not that far away, ever... A hot tub, well that would be another thing....

[IsailedawayfromFR]

So what is the point?

there are over half a million who are homeless and will NEVER have water or plumbing by definition.

There are lots of others who CHOOSE to not have these either.

It is not a constitutional right in this country to provide water and plumbing.

So government cannot have a say about it, and it is to be left to charities.

Many will still choose to refuse it anyway.

[libertybele]

WhenI first moved to AK, I had electricity, a sink with running water but no commode, nor out house.  Bucket in a 'closet" was about it.  I'd sneak into the local university nearby to shower and using their toilets was a luxury.  I did that for about 6 months and then moved into a place with running water and a bathroom with shower.  At that time I knew several families that had no running water or electricity. During the winter months they would go to the local store and gather up the old produce that was being thrown out.  It was a rough life for many.  I learned that propane can actually freeze and quickly learned to leave a blanket on my car battery and to leave the water trickling at night otherwise pipes would freeze.  I have to admit though a different lifestyle, it is a tranquil one. When I came back to the lower 48 after 2+ years, it took some getting used to.  I always had hoped to make it back there, but that never happened. I went from one extreme to the other and now live in the deep south. At my age I can't imagine living in that bitter cold again nor the short winter days and long nights.

[libertybele]

So what is the point?

there are over half a million who are homeless and will NEVER have water or plumbing by definition.

There are lots of others who CHOOSE to not have these either.

It is not a constitutional right in this country to provide water and plumbing.

So government cannot have a say about it, and it is to be left to charities.

Many will still choose to refuse it anyway.

No, it certainly isn't a constitutional right but government does have a say. Some cities will not let you dwell in a home without adequate plumbing or electricity. The area that I live in will 'flag' the house as uninhabitable if you don't pay your water and electric bill and give you so many days to either rectify your bill, or start eviction proceedings...even if you own the home.

[IsailedawayfromFR]

No, it certainly isn't a constitutional right but government does have a say. Some cities will not let you dwell in a home without adequate plumbing or electricity. The area that I live in will 'flag' the house as uninhabitable if you don't pay your water and electric bill and give you so many days to either rectify your bill, or start eviction proceedings...even if you own the home.

What you are describing is a restriction on how one must have on a property is one wishes to inhabit it.

This is not on an individual but on a property.

Big difference.

[roamer_1]

no commode, nor out house.  Bucket in a 'closet" was about it.

Folks really have no idea how common that is...
I would prefer a composting toilet.
It ain't no thing in the country life... You're always haulin sh*t somewhere or another, and composting human poop is a rich source of soil - which is life-blood in the country.

It ain't hard. Some have composting outhouses, but many have a thunderbucket right in the house somewhere, as you describe. The difference is, a whole lot of sawdust, which is another cheap commodity on a woodland farm.

You doo your business, reach over and grab a handful of sawdust, and cover your business... And it don't smell at all, done properly... When the bucket is full, it goes out to a special compost heap - usually in a 4x4x4 box, where it is dumped and covered with straw... which again, does not stink if done well... When that is full (which will take about a year), you move to another box, and then another... When the third box is full, the first can be harvested, and it is all dirt by then.

That dirt can be used anywhere, though many folks, as a precaution, won't use it on the garden, though in the orchard is fine. I just mix it in with the barn compost, were it gets turned and heated for another year... And spread on the pastures.

I know that probably sounds awful to y'all, but it really ain't no thing. Unless it gets ahead of you, especially in the winter... If you don't dump the bucket right away while it is still warm, it will freeze up... do that enough and you'll have 20-30 buckets to process in the spring, and that is a drag.

But handled in a timely fashion, dump the bucket, wash the bucket, throw some straw, on your way, it is way better than cleaning out a chicken coop, and at least an order of magnitude better than cleaning out a pig pen.

At my age I can't imagine living in that bitter cold again nor the short winter days and long nights.

I am bunged up and all, but I get on alright... Family and neighbors respect their elders, so there is always a helping hand if you need it.

[Wingnut]

Late 50's at my grandparents farm house, they had a hand pump in the kitchen sink for water. The comode was a one hole outhouse next to the chicken coup.  In the winter Gramps took a toilet seat and covered it with rabbit fur so my grany's tush would not git frost bit.  He kept it next to the coal burning pot belly stove so it was always warm. 

True story.   
If i'm lying I'm dying

[roamer_1]

Late 50's at my grandparents farm house, they had a hand pump in the kitchen sink for water. The comode was a one hole outhouse next to the chicken coup.  In the winter Gramps took a toilet seat and covered it with rabbit fur so my grany's tush would not git frost bit.  He kept it next to the coal burning pot belly stove so it was always warm. 

True story.   
If i'm lying I'm dying

That's still not uncommon. I can go less than twenty miles from here and walk onto any number of homesteads just like that. Except around here , it's coyote fur, and only the fur itself goes back in the house with you... Ladies find the gents aim to be problematic otherwise.

[Cyber Liberty]

And this is my fault...why?

[Wingnut]

And this is my fault...why?

You were in a frat?   

[Cyber Liberty]

You were in a frat?   

I Tappa Keg.

[Wingnut]

I Tappa Keg.

Me too!   

[thackney]

...Digging a surface well is a way better bet, if surface water is available... If it ain't catchment is dang near free other than the tanks... Save all the water off the cabin, barn, Machine shed, and shop roofs and pump it up the hill a ways, to a serious underground storage, and let gravity give it back to you...

You would be surprised how much water that is. And after the investment in tanks and piping, which is nearly all permanent, the only part that can fail is the pump (and pump periphery)... And it can all be done with a low volume solar pump. Seen it done a hundred times.

How does that work below freezing temperatures?

[roamer_1]

How does that work below freezing temperatures?

It's all buried.  All or mostly below the frost line which is around 4 ft here. Not the collection tanks, which are just below the surface, but generally dry and diverted in the winter. But the storage tanks up the hill, they are full and deep in the ground.

[thackney]

It's all buried.  All or mostly below the frost line which is around 4 ft here. Not the collection tanks, which are just below the surface, but generally dry and diverted in the winter. But the storage tanks up the hill, they are full and deep in the ground.

Surface collection is below ground????

Is the water storage so large to store the entire winter's usage of water in advance of freezing?

[roamer_1]

Surface collection is below ground????

Yeah - Gutters drain to collection tanks, buried just below the surface... The bottoms of all/any are level with each other and connected to which ever acts as central which is a bit lower.  All divert when full. And a solar pump in the central tank pushes when it can till they are dry, or till the main tanks are full, depending on the season.

Is the water storage so large to store the entire winter's usage of water in advance of freezing?

Sure... Generally 2 or 3 5500's ganged together. Two things:

First, water usage is way down in the winter. Not like summer where the garden is a huge impact, and animals need way more.
 
The frost ain't all the way in like you might assume for quite a while. So the storage is probably full from the fall rains, and the collection tanks are probably left full probably past thanksgiving, maybe near to Christmas, when the storage would be topped off, and whatever is left in the collection tanks is diverted and the pump set to let em go dry.

Snow melt is generally not good for collection, as it is pretty dirty. But generally, come February or so, breakup starts, the roofs start being melted off, and collection starts being possible, even if for relatively short term time frames... It can be snowed in through March, and sometimes April, but really you only have to get through 3 months where the dead of winter lives. Plenty of rain water spring and fall.

And if you get in a trick bag, folks have a couple 600 gal totes laying around and pick up a few gallons every time they go to town, where there are plenty of places to get free water.

It all works out.

[thackney]

Yeah - Gutters drain to collection tanks, buried just below the surface... The bottoms of all/any are level with each other and connected to which ever acts as central which is a bit lower.  All divert when full. And a solar pump in the central tank pushes when it can till they are dry, or till the main tanks are full, depending on the season.

Sure... Generally 2 or 3 5500's ganged together. Two things:

First, water usage is way down in the winter. Not like summer where the garden is a huge impact, and animals need way more.
 
The frost ain't all the way in like you might assume for quite a while. So the storage is probably full from the fall rains, and the collection tanks are probably left full probably past thanksgiving, maybe near to Christmas, when the storage would be topped off, and whatever is left in the collection tanks is diverted and the pump set to let em go dry.

Snow melt is generally not good for collection, as it is pretty dirty. But generally, come February or so, breakup starts, the roofs start being melted off, and collection starts being possible, even if for relatively short term time frames... It can be snowed in through March, and sometimes April, but really you only have to get through 3 months where the dead of winter lives. Plenty of rain water spring and fall.

And if you get in a trick bag, folks have a couple 600 gal totes laying around and pick up a few gallons every time they go to town, where there are plenty of places to get free water.

It all works out.

Thank you for the info!

[roamer_1]

Thank you for the info!

 

I see folks down your way with their storage just hanging out above ground... How do you keep the algae out of em?

[roamer_1]

Thank you for the info!

And you would think, above ground like that, that the sun would wreck poly tanks pretty soon. Do folks have to replace em often?

[thackney]

I see folks down your way with their storage just hanging out above ground... How do you keep the algae out of em?

No idea.  Heck, I get algae growing on the side of the house we are so damp and and warm.

Okay, maybe just mildew and mold.  I cannot imagine trying to collect rain water around here.  I am constantly trying to get rid of rain water, freaking flat swampland...

[roamer_1]

I cannot imagine trying to collect rain water around here.  I am constantly trying to get rid of rain water, freaking flat swampland...

Heh. One nice thing about the mountains... There is always a downhill 

Even so, as an erstwhile landscaper (water goes downhill, and green-side up) You would truly be amazed at how many people living on a hill have poor drainage around their house. And it is worse, because a whole mountain is draining through their yard.    Some people's kids...

[Cyber Liberty]

Heh. One nice thing about the mountains... There is always a downhill 

Even so, as an erstwhile landscaper (water goes downhill, and green-side up) You would truly be amazed at how many people living on a hill have poor drainage around their house. And it is worse, because a whole mountain is draining through their yard.    Some people's kids...

This is something I've come to appreciate, having recently moved from the flat Desert floor of Phoenix ("Valley of the Sun") to a foothill next to the Colorado River.  In Phoenix, I'd see retention parks fill to the brim, and water from the street back up my driveway half way to the house.  Here, it's a comfortable 25-foot drop from the Castle down to the street level, and the entire neighborhood is about 900 feet above the level of the River.  In Phoenix, nowhere is more than 10 feet above everywhere else.  Flatter than the Great Plains, I think.

Hoover Dam could be blown up and I would just watch what's left of the cities by the River wash away now....

[roamer_1]

Hoover Dam could be blown up and I would just watch what's left of the cities by the River wash away now....

Yeah, I have never seen the sense in it... You would think folks would put their houses up on piers like the swampers do around here... Even mountain cabins are often up on piers - firstly because it is cheaper than foundation by quite a bit (way more than you'd think in this rocky ground), but also because of the snow and snow melt. Piers give you say, four more feet before the snow off the roof starts to be a problem, and during breakup, everything everywhere turns to loon-sh*t. Having the house set above all that is just sensible.

How a feller deals with it when things are prairie-flat, with WAY more water at once, not to mention tornados and hurricanes...  Thanks, but I will stay up here.

[Cyber Liberty]

How a feller deals with it when things are prairie-flat, with WAY more water at once, not to mention tornados and hurricanes...  Thanks, but I will stay up here.

Well, start off by building out of the "flood plane," which is a difference of only a few feet from the "not a flood plane."  Then pray the rain cells concentrate somewhere other than over your neighborhood.   

Building on stilts is not an option here, because the Summer elements of heat and dry (with a good measure of UV rays from the 350 days of sunshine!) will corrode wood and even some concrete.  It's much easier to just set a pre-cast/pre-stressed slab down for a foundation  Bright side:  No tornadoes, hurricanes or earthquakes!

[roamer_1]

Bright side:  No tornadoes, hurricanes or earthquakes!

LOL! Yeah, but it's too damn hot to die... 

Yeah, I like it here... For the most part there's water - Back in the woods, carrying a half gallon will more than get me to the next spring or creek... And thanks to the mountains, water is not only plentiful, but pretty controlled.

Everything that wants to eat me is big enough to see.
no poisonous snakes, relatively few bugs... Clear water, so nothing lurking there either, other than beaver fever, which I am likely immune to. Just the occasional griz or wolf, or dumbass moose that decides he hates you.

Forest fires and earthquakes - The first being awful, the second hardly rattling the windows every few years...

And the shade works.

Mo bedda.