Author Topic: Car Crashes in Pot-Legal States Have Soared  (Read 2394 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Online Sighlass

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 6,344
  • Didn't vote for McCain Dole Romney Trump !
Re: Car Crashes in Pot-Legal States Have Soared
« Reply #25 on: November 17, 2019, 04:45:36 am »
The sad side of just saying "do it at home" is some research shows pot can affect you days weeks later... So the stay at home thing doesn't always apply.... the good news is some folks like being rear-ended 6%  more.  :2popcorn:
« Last Edit: November 17, 2019, 04:47:26 am by Sighlass »
Exodus 18:21 Furthermore, you shall select out of all the people able men who fear God, men of truth, those who hate dishonest gain; and you shall place these over them as leaders over ....

Online Smokin Joe

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 57,041
  • I was a "conspiracy theorist". Now I'm just right.
Re: Car Crashes in Pot-Legal States Have Soared
« Reply #26 on: November 17, 2019, 04:48:07 am »
The sad side of just saying "do it at home" is some research shows pot can affect you days weeks later... So the stay at home thing doesn't always apply.... the good news is some folks like being rear-ended 6%  more.  :2popcorn:
Probably plays well in San Francisco... :whistle:
How God must weep at humans' folly! Stand fast! God knows what he is doing!
Seventeen Techniques for Truth Suppression

Of all tyrannies, a tyranny sincerely exercised for the good of its victims may be the most oppressive. It would be better to live under robber barons than under omnipotent moral busybodies. The robber baron's cruelty may sometimes sleep, his cupidity may at some point be satiated; but those who torment us for our own good will torment us without end for they do so with the approval of their own conscience.

C S Lewis

Offline sneakypete

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 52,963
  • Twitter is for Twits
Re: Car Crashes in Pot-Legal States Have Soared
« Reply #27 on: November 17, 2019, 01:31:26 pm »
I gave up that stuff a long time ago. I hear that this legal stuff is a lot stronger than what we used to smoke. For a road trip we used to roll up enough to have a joint between us for every ten miles and we never wrecked. I wonder how much they've smoked before they wrecked.  Or is it that they just can't handle it?

@Elderberry

I can't speak on a personal level about the quality of pot today compared to a few decades ago,but I can tell you that like everything else in life,different people are affected differently.

Back when I was doing a lot of drugs in the 70's,I could take smoke 10 dollar a bag Mexican pot,and if I smoked just ONE joint I couldn't drive anywhere for a hour or more. Hell,you couldn't even take me anywhere with you unless I promised to stay in the car. I once walked into a 7-11 early one night with a bunch of rolled up joints stuck into my beard so I wouldn't lose them. Not only that,but I couldn't count money to pay for whatever it was I went in there to get,but the people behind the counter were laughing so hard they told me it was their treat. I had completely forgotten they were in my beard,and had no idea what they were laughing at until I got back home and looked in a mirror.
 
No,I didn't drive to the 7-11. I was riding with a friend,and was supposed to have stayed in the car,but forgot.

I could get higher on that cheap pot than my friends were getting from their 100 dollar bags of Columbian,so naturally that was all I ever bought.

I could take a hit of acid and go anywhere,but smoking a joint made me into a vegetable. Which was nice. Only reason I quit was because later in life I came down with COPD. Probably from smoking cigarettes.

BTW,I knew people that could smoke their Columbian weed and if you didn't know them,you would never know they were high.
« Last Edit: November 17, 2019, 01:33:29 pm by sneakypete »
Anyone who isn't paranoid in 2021 just isn't thinking clearly!

Offline roamer_1

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 44,168
Re: Car Crashes in Pot-Legal States Have Soared
« Reply #28 on: November 17, 2019, 06:25:48 pm »
I can't speak on a personal level about the quality of pot today compared to a few decades ago,but I can tell you that like everything else in life,different people are affected differently.


My experience with pot:

2 hits, 10 minutes, Asleep 5 hrs.
Every_time.

Offline sneakypete

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 52,963
  • Twitter is for Twits
Re: Car Crashes in Pot-Legal States Have Soared
« Reply #29 on: November 17, 2019, 06:43:47 pm »
My experience with pot:

2 hits, 10 minutes, Asleep 5 hrs.
Every_time.

@roamer_1

I was a little better than you in that I remained semi-conscious for hours,but was a Olympic quality napper once I did lay down. The good news is I was easily amused while awake.

All in all,I don't have a single negative thing to say about it.
Anyone who isn't paranoid in 2021 just isn't thinking clearly!

Offline roamer_1

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 44,168
Re: Car Crashes in Pot-Legal States Have Soared
« Reply #30 on: November 17, 2019, 06:55:02 pm »
@roamer_1

I was a little better than you in that I remained semi-conscious for hours,but was a Olympic quality napper once I did lay down. The good news is I was easily amused while awake.

All in all,I don't have a single negative thing to say about it.

@sneakypete

Well, neither do I, because I just checked out. Needless to say, weed was not part of my party life.

Kinda grateful for that... I tried a few other things, but without that gateway, I pretty well stayed with beer, tailgate parties and honytonks, and fairly well avoided the drug scene... Probably a blessing, as I didn't handle that much very well.  :shrug: :whistle:

Offline DB

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 13,553
Re: Car Crashes in Pot-Legal States Have Soared
« Reply #31 on: November 17, 2019, 07:28:24 pm »
It amazes me that lefties demand that tobacco providers are the a great evil and pot providers are just fine. That smoking tobacco is a major violation to all that is good in the world while smoking pot is good and enlightened.

That the smell of tobacco in the air is a human rights violation while the smell of pot should be accepted without question.

It is highly likely inhaling smoke of nearly any variety is quite bad for you if you do it for a long period.

In twenty years are the left going to go after big pot like they did big tobacco? And bitch about corporate greed killing people?

Or is it really all about who's ox is gored is all that matters.
« Last Edit: November 17, 2019, 08:48:15 pm by DB »

Offline sneakypete

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 52,963
  • Twitter is for Twits
Re: Car Crashes in Pot-Legal States Have Soared
« Reply #32 on: November 17, 2019, 08:58:14 pm »
Quote
It amazes me that lefties demand that tobacco providers are the a great evil and pot providers are just fine. That smoking tobacco is a major violation to all that is good in the world while smoking pot is good and enlightened.

@DB

Not me. Smoking tobacco provides nothing for anyone but bad  health and medical bills. Smoking pot calms down a lot of people who are normally agitated,and relaxes people who are just stressed from daily life. It also helps you sleep.

Quote
That the smell of tobacco in the air is a human rights violation while the smell of pot should be accepted without question.

That statement is a little extreme,don't ya think?


Quote
It is highly likely inhaling smoke of nearly any variety is quite bad for you if you do it for a long period.

It is common for smokers to inhale tobacco smoke from 60 to 90 cigarettes a day. Show me a pot smoker that smokes even 10 joints a day,and I will show you a pot smoker that needs a new supplier.

Quote
In twenty years are the left going to go after big pot like they did big tobacco? And bitch about corporate greed killing people?

Probably. Leftists just aren't happy unless they are complaining about something.


Anyone who isn't paranoid in 2021 just isn't thinking clearly!

Online Smokin Joe

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 57,041
  • I was a "conspiracy theorist". Now I'm just right.
Re: Car Crashes in Pot-Legal States Have Soared
« Reply #33 on: November 18, 2019, 02:06:06 pm »
It amazes me that lefties demand that tobacco providers are the a great evil and pot providers are just fine. That smoking tobacco is a major violation to all that is good in the world while smoking pot is good and enlightened.

That the smell of tobacco in the air is a human rights violation while the smell of pot should be accepted without question.

It is highly likely inhaling smoke of nearly any variety is quite bad for you if you do it for a long period.

In twenty years are the left going to go after big pot like they did big tobacco? And bitch about corporate greed killing people?

Or is it really all about who's ox is gored is all that matters.
I find it ironic that when we were kids getting 'skunked' in a chance encounter was something that made one a pariah until the smell wore off. Yet nowadays there are people infusing their homes, cars, persons, and those unfortunate enough to be around them with an odor that is really close to the smell the animal can nail you with.

The same people who whined about cigarette smoke have no compunction about smelling like a skunk.

That said, I can't count on my fingers and toes the number of apartment building hallways I have been in that reek of pot. I wonder how their neighbors fare on random drug tests, whether they use or not, and those tests are a large part of being/staying employed in an oilfield town.
How God must weep at humans' folly! Stand fast! God knows what he is doing!
Seventeen Techniques for Truth Suppression

Of all tyrannies, a tyranny sincerely exercised for the good of its victims may be the most oppressive. It would be better to live under robber barons than under omnipotent moral busybodies. The robber baron's cruelty may sometimes sleep, his cupidity may at some point be satiated; but those who torment us for our own good will torment us without end for they do so with the approval of their own conscience.

C S Lewis

Online Smokin Joe

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 57,041
  • I was a "conspiracy theorist". Now I'm just right.
Re: Car Crashes in Pot-Legal States Have Soared
« Reply #34 on: November 18, 2019, 02:29:00 pm »
@DB

Not me. Smoking tobacco provides nothing for anyone but bad  health and medical bills. Smoking pot calms down a lot of people who are normally agitated,and relaxes people who are just stressed from daily life. It also helps you sleep.

That statement is a little extreme,don't ya think?


It is common for smokers to inhale tobacco smoke from 60 to 90 cigarettes a day. Show me a pot smoker that smokes even 10 joints a day,and I will show you a pot smoker that needs a new supplier.

Probably. Leftists just aren't happy unless they are complaining about something.
Three to five packs a day? That won't last long. FOr starters, at roughly $7 a pack, that's getting more expensive than crack.

When I smoked, I can't count the number of instances where a cigarette saved some sh*tbird from getting thumped. It's paradoxical, but that stimulant can have a calmative effect, too.
Aside from that, nicotine constricts the peripheral blood vessels, is a stimulant, and an antidepressant.
People who used to self-medicate with nicotine to get over their problems and frustrations are on happy pills now, pills which have a wide range of nasty side effects, which include suicidal tendencies and homicidal ideation.
About the same time that the anti-smoking jihad went into high gear, mass workplace and school shootings started....
Used to be kids/employees would just go sneak/have a cigarette.

One more thing. How many times have you seen someone who has been injured, lost blood, or otherwise been traumatized smoking a cigarette? There's a lot of footage of wounded guys having a smoke in WWII and other conflicts, so consider that the constriction of peripheral blood vessels pushes the remaining blood volume toward the body core, preserving vital organs, and helps ward off hypovolemic shock. Because it counters some of the physiological effects of alcohol (depressant, dilates peripheral blood vessels), those who have had a bit to drink tend to smoke more heavily if they smoke, and even those who don't ordinarily smoke will bum a cigarette and smoke it. I have seen it when I tended bar for a bit back in the '80s, back when you could smoke in one.

Right, no benefit, but if you think about it, that statement is just part of the anti-tobacco jihad propaganda.

Does the benefit outweigh the effects of chronic and heavy use? Nah, I don't think so. I smoked for 35 years before I quit (1-1 1/2 packs a day), and it's taken me ten years since I quit to get my wind back. But if people use something for hundreds of years, it's likely they see some benefit from it.

Now, with pot (and other natural drugs, from caffeine to cocaine, etc.), apparently people see some benefit in using it, because they have for hundreds (or even thousands of years). That doesn't mean they weren't getting killed over being high on their particular drug in the wrong place at the wrong time then, too, and now we have a lot more common wrong places and times to be high. Especially considering the motor vehicle, heavy equipment, aircraft, etc., where instead of just falling under your own ox cart, you can wipe out a whole city block being stupid. 
« Last Edit: November 18, 2019, 02:30:11 pm by Smokin Joe »
How God must weep at humans' folly! Stand fast! God knows what he is doing!
Seventeen Techniques for Truth Suppression

Of all tyrannies, a tyranny sincerely exercised for the good of its victims may be the most oppressive. It would be better to live under robber barons than under omnipotent moral busybodies. The robber baron's cruelty may sometimes sleep, his cupidity may at some point be satiated; but those who torment us for our own good will torment us without end for they do so with the approval of their own conscience.

C S Lewis

Offline catfish1957

  • Laken Riley.... Say her Name. And to every past and future democrat voter- Her blood is on your hands too!!!
  • Political Researcher
  • *****
  • Posts: 31,878
  • Gender: Male
Re: Car Crashes in Pot-Legal States Have Soared
« Reply #35 on: November 18, 2019, 02:41:54 pm »
@sneakypete

Well, neither do I, because I just checked out. Needless to say, weed was not part of my party life.



Here either.  Back in the mid '70's my limited experience seemed like, (1) Everything was funny (2) Music was 1000% better (3) Went through food like Pac Man (4) Slept like a baby.  (5) Nusiance forgetfullness for a few days afterwards. 

With that, I have no problem with its legalization, but I hope the masses have the common sense to enjoy it in the comforts of their home versus taking the high on the road.  Roads are already dangerous enough with the drinkers, texters, phone junkies, and those who seem to use the new enhanced auto-safety features as catch all for their driving shortfalls.
I display the Confederate Battle Flag in honor of my great great great grandfathers who spilled blood at Wilson's Creek and Shiloh.  5 others served in the WBTS with honor too.

Online Smokin Joe

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 57,041
  • I was a "conspiracy theorist". Now I'm just right.
Re: Car Crashes in Pot-Legal States Have Soared
« Reply #36 on: November 18, 2019, 02:49:10 pm »
Here either.  Back in the mid '70's my limited experience seemed like, (1) Everything was funny (2) Music was 1000% better (3) Went through food like Pac Man (4) Slept like a baby.  (5) Nusiance forgetfullness for a few days afterwards. 

With that, I have no problem with its legalization, but I hope the masses have the common sense to enjoy it in the comforts of their home versus taking the high on the road.  Roads are already dangerous enough with the drinkers, texters, phone junkies, and those who seem to use the new enhanced auto-safety features as catch all for their driving shortfalls.
Just look again at your second paragraph, and consider the things people are already doing on the roads they shouldn't (including getting baked and driving, even though its illegal as all get-out).
Legalization will just open up another reason to get killed on the highway, because people already have widely demonstrated that they won't use what they have responsibly. Aside from that, the nuisance forgetfulness you describe affects the ability to operate a vehicle safely, too.
Consider that motor vehicles include everything from mopeds to triple trailer semi rigs, and the picture gets clearer. one messed up person making one critical error can affect a lot of people. Are there going to be different standards for commercial drivers? If so, and they live in the apartment next to a user, will they be able to pass those tests?
Back to the stinky aspect, I can't stand the smell of skunk, don't know why people now find it attractive other than they have been conditioned to associate it with the buzz, and often are oblivious to the odor in their vehicle or on their person. I smell it far too often when I am out and about, now, even though its illegal. I can't imagine what time in town would be like if it were legal.
« Last Edit: November 18, 2019, 02:50:38 pm by Smokin Joe »
How God must weep at humans' folly! Stand fast! God knows what he is doing!
Seventeen Techniques for Truth Suppression

Of all tyrannies, a tyranny sincerely exercised for the good of its victims may be the most oppressive. It would be better to live under robber barons than under omnipotent moral busybodies. The robber baron's cruelty may sometimes sleep, his cupidity may at some point be satiated; but those who torment us for our own good will torment us without end for they do so with the approval of their own conscience.

C S Lewis

Offline catfish1957

  • Laken Riley.... Say her Name. And to every past and future democrat voter- Her blood is on your hands too!!!
  • Political Researcher
  • *****
  • Posts: 31,878
  • Gender: Male
Re: Car Crashes in Pot-Legal States Have Soared
« Reply #37 on: November 18, 2019, 03:23:43 pm »
Just look again at your second paragraph, and consider the things people are already doing on the roads they shouldn't (including getting baked and driving, even though its illegal as all get-out).
Legalization will just open up another reason to get killed on the highway, because people already have widely demonstrated that they won't use what they have responsibly. Aside from that, the nuisance forgetfulness you describe affects the ability to operate a vehicle safely, too.
Consider that motor vehicles include everything from mopeds to triple trailer semi rigs, and the picture gets clearer. one messed up person making one critical error can affect a lot of people. Are there going to be different standards for commercial drivers? If so, and they live in the apartment next to a user, will they be able to pass those tests?
Back to the stinky aspect, I can't stand the smell of skunk, don't know why people now find it attractive other than they have been conditioned to associate it with the buzz, and often are oblivious to the odor in their vehicle or on their person. I smell it far too often when I am out and about, now, even though its illegal. I can't imagine what time in town would be like if it were legal.

Based on your argument, booze needs to be outlawed too.  Would like to see the stats of highway deaths of booze vs. MJ. 

IF we are going to make the roads totally safe, lets go all out.   :cool:
I display the Confederate Battle Flag in honor of my great great great grandfathers who spilled blood at Wilson's Creek and Shiloh.  5 others served in the WBTS with honor too.

Online Smokin Joe

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 57,041
  • I was a "conspiracy theorist". Now I'm just right.
Re: Car Crashes in Pot-Legal States Have Soared
« Reply #38 on: November 18, 2019, 03:49:11 pm »
Based on your argument, booze needs to be outlawed too.  Would like to see the stats of highway deaths of booze vs. MJ. 

IF we are going to make the roads totally safe, lets go all out.   :cool:
We tried that, but booze was already so heavily infused in our society from millennia of being commonly used and legal that it just didn't work.
The problem of drunk drivers and automobile (and other) accidents remains a major cause of accidental death.
 
There is, and ever will be a segment of the population who will get carried away with their recreation, whether that be an acute situation or a chronic one.

We still have an option, here. Do we want to go there with another drug?

With the exception of those jurisdictions which have legalized pot, it has been illegal for the lifetimes of almost everyone living, and has only become entrenched in the "counter culture" since the '60s, part of the New Left's wave of 'if it feels good do it', because it is far easier to achieve  the goals the Communists set when people aren't thinking clearly and critically.

With the degradation in the quality of education, and the discouragement of critical thought in that environment, this country needs every advantage it can get, and it won't come from marijuana (or booze, for that matter).
How God must weep at humans' folly! Stand fast! God knows what he is doing!
Seventeen Techniques for Truth Suppression

Of all tyrannies, a tyranny sincerely exercised for the good of its victims may be the most oppressive. It would be better to live under robber barons than under omnipotent moral busybodies. The robber baron's cruelty may sometimes sleep, his cupidity may at some point be satiated; but those who torment us for our own good will torment us without end for they do so with the approval of their own conscience.

C S Lewis

Online Elderberry

  • TBR Contributor
  • *****
  • Posts: 24,639
Re: Car Crashes in Pot-Legal States Have Soared
« Reply #39 on: November 18, 2019, 04:22:19 pm »
CBD oil contains no THC – the psychoactive ingredient in marijuana, at least not in any significant quantities and doesn’t, can’t actually make you high (assuming you get it from a “legitimate” and not completely shady source but being that it’s not closely regulated….?) no matter how much you use and is typically produced from hemp plants, not marijuana plants. Hemp is a close relative of marijuana but

@Neverdul

Hemp is Marijuana.




Quote
Is hemp the same thing as marijuana?

https://phys.org/news/2019-02-hemp-marijuana.html

What's the difference between hemp and marijuana?

Hemp and marijuana are, taxonomically speaking, the same plant; they are different names for the same genus (Cannabis) and species.

"Hemp and marijuana even look and smell the same," says Tom Melton, deputy director of NC State Extension. "The difference is that hemp plants contain no more than 0.3 percent (by dry weight) of THC (tetrahydrocannabinol), the psychoactive substance found in marijuana. By comparison, marijuana typically contains 5 to 20 percent THC. You can't get high on hemp."

In other words, Cannabis plants with 0.3 percent or less of THC are hemp. Cannabis plants with more than 0.3 percent THC are marijuana.

Now in Texas, since the lab cost are so high to determine the percentage of THC in any marijuana sample, the police are not arresting people found with user quantities of pot. If it can't be proven that it contains over 0.3% THC then it may be legal "Hemp". Some municipalities may , but I've seen news reports of police giving pot back to people and not arresting them.

Offline sneakypete

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 52,963
  • Twitter is for Twits
Re: Car Crashes in Pot-Legal States Have Soared
« Reply #40 on: November 18, 2019, 04:55:52 pm »

Three to five packs a day? That won't last long. FOr starters, at roughly $7 a pack, that's getting more expensive than crack.

@Smokin Joe

Addicts WILL spend money to get their fixes. Good luck bumming your smokes these days,though!


Quote
When I smoked, I can't count the number of instances where a cigarette saved some sh*tbird from getting thumped. It's paradoxical, but that stimulant can have a calmative effect, too.

Nothing mysterious about it. You are a junkie,getting your fix.


Quote
Aside from that, nicotine constricts the peripheral blood vessels, is a stimulant, and an antidepressant.

Until you start coughing up your lungs in little pieces,of course.


Quote
People who used to self-medicate with nicotine to get over their problems and frustrations are on happy pills now, pills which have a wide range of nasty side effects, which include suicidal tendencies and homicidal ideation.
About the same time that the anti-smoking jihad went into high gear, mass workplace and school shootings started....
Used to be kids/employees would just go sneak/have a cigarette.

Ok,now you are just making stuff up to justify your fixes.



Quote
One more thing. How many times have you seen someone who has been injured, lost blood, or otherwise been traumatized smoking a cigarette? There's a lot of footage of wounded guys having a smoke in WWII and other conflicts, so consider that the constriction of peripheral blood vessels pushes the remaining blood volume toward the body core, preserving vital organs, and helps ward off hypovolemic shock.

ROFLMAO!

You give a nicotine junkie a cigarette to call him down because he is excited and NEEDS the fix.

Quote
Because it counters some of the physiological effects of alcohol (depressant, dilates peripheral blood vessels), those who have had a bit to drink tend to smoke more heavily if they smoke, and even those who don't ordinarily smoke will bum a cigarette and smoke it. I have seen it when I tended bar for a bit back in the '80s, back when you could smoke in one.

I come from a whole damn family of drunks and heavy smokers,and if ANY of them had even suspected smoking would sober them up,they would have quit smoking on the spot.


Quote
Right, no benefit, but if you think about it, that statement is just part of the anti-tobacco jihad propaganda.

You ain't going to like it,but smoking does NOTHING for a non-smoker in any situation,other than to make them cough and try to catch their breath. Yes,it DOES have a calming effect on an addicted smoker because the junkie is getting his or her fix. This ain't rocket science.

 
Quote
But if people use something for hundreds of years, it's likely they see some benefit from it.

It started as a social status thing. Only the refined with money to spend could afford to buy tobacco. I,personally,started smoking as a kid by stealing Camel cigarettes from my father and smoking them to get a buzz. Really helped to hold a big hit and then spin around in circles.

Later on,I started smoking them because a smoke break was about the only break you could get in the army. Couldn't smoke on missions because the smell would travel and give away my position,so I stopped. Went back to smoking after getting out of the army because it was one of the few things I enjoyed doing that didn't cost much.


Quote
Now, with pot (and other natural drugs, from caffeine to cocaine, etc.), apparently people see some benefit in using it, because they have for hundreds (or even thousands of years). That doesn't mean they weren't getting killed over being high on their particular drug in the wrong place at the wrong time then, too,

Yeah,and that never happened with cigarettes,right? Try to tell that to someone who ran recon.

Quote
and now we have a lot more common wrong places and times to be high. Especially considering the motor vehicle, heavy equipment, aircraft, etc., where instead of just falling under your own ox cart, you can wipe out a whole city block being stupid.

Not only that,but you could be hit by lightening,or even have an airplane fall on your head while outside on a smoke break!

Look,I KNOW you are desperate to "prove" that tobacco isn't a drug and you were never an addict,but it just ain't so.

Cheer up,though. You can always truthfully say you were never addicted to illegal drugs.
Anyone who isn't paranoid in 2021 just isn't thinking clearly!

Offline sneakypete

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 52,963
  • Twitter is for Twits
Re: Car Crashes in Pot-Legal States Have Soared
« Reply #41 on: November 18, 2019, 04:59:51 pm »


Quote
With that, I have no problem with its legalization, but I hope the masses have the common sense to enjoy it in the comforts of their home versus taking the high on the road. Roads are already dangerous enough with the drinkers, texters, phone junkies, and those who seem to use the new enhanced auto-safety features as catch all for their driving shortfalls.


@catfish1957   AMEN,AMEN,AMEN!

Anyone caught driving while impaired needs to be hammered by the law. I am NOT saying "shot" or "sent to prison for life",but there should be consequences severe enough to give any sane person pause before hitting the road.

We ALL have the right to risk our own lives using any method we choose,but we do NOT have the right to risk the lives and health of others.

 
« Last Edit: November 18, 2019, 05:00:57 pm by sneakypete »
Anyone who isn't paranoid in 2021 just isn't thinking clearly!

Offline catfish1957

  • Laken Riley.... Say her Name. And to every past and future democrat voter- Her blood is on your hands too!!!
  • Political Researcher
  • *****
  • Posts: 31,878
  • Gender: Male
Re: Car Crashes in Pot-Legal States Have Soared
« Reply #42 on: November 18, 2019, 05:00:20 pm »

We still have an option, here. Do we want to go there with another drug?



Short term, not going to lose much sleep over it.  I figure my state (TX) will be near the last to pass legalization anyway.
I display the Confederate Battle Flag in honor of my great great great grandfathers who spilled blood at Wilson's Creek and Shiloh.  5 others served in the WBTS with honor too.

Offline sneakypete

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 52,963
  • Twitter is for Twits
Re: Car Crashes in Pot-Legal States Have Soared
« Reply #43 on: November 18, 2019, 05:06:55 pm »
Based on your argument, booze needs to be outlawed too.  Would like to see the stats of highway deaths of booze vs. MJ. 

IF we are going to make the roads totally safe, lets go all out.   :cool:
[/quote

@catfish1957 @Smokin Joe

Not to mention blood pressure meds,cough syrup,cigarettes,radios in cars,etc,etc,etc.

The question is "How much of a nanny police state do you want?" There has to be reasonable limits applied using common sense. For example,pretty much anyone can drink ONE bottle or can of beer and safely operate a vehicle,but I am not aware of anyone that can shoot up heroin and safely drive.

IMHO,one of our biggest problems is damn fools passing laws that don't even exist in the same solar system as "common sense" because they are passing these laws to "send a statement".

Be careful what you ask for,lest you get it.
Anyone who isn't paranoid in 2021 just isn't thinking clearly!

Online Elderberry

  • TBR Contributor
  • *****
  • Posts: 24,639
Re: Car Crashes in Pot-Legal States Have Soared
« Reply #44 on: November 18, 2019, 06:05:06 pm »
Short term, not going to lose much sleep over it.  I figure my state (TX) will be near the last to pass legalization anyway.

Especially looking at Texas past history of marijuana laws:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cannabis_in_Texas#Early_history

Quote
Early history

John Gregory Bourke described the use of "mariguan", which he identifies as Cannabis indica or Indian hemp, by Mexican residents of the Rio Grande region of Texas in 1894. He described its uses for treatment of asthma, to expedite delivery, to keep away witches, and as a love-philtre. He also wrote that many Mexicans added the herb to their cigarritos or mescal, often taking a bite of sugar afterward to intensify the effect. Bourke wrote that because it was often used in a mixture with toloachi (which he inaccurately describes as Datura stramonium), mariguan was one of the several plants known as "loco weed". Bourke compared mariguan to hasheesh, which he called "one of the greatest curses of the East", citing reports that users "become maniacs and are apt to commit all sorts of acts of violence and murder", causing degeneration of the body and an idiotic appearance, and mentioned laws against sale of hasheesh "in most Eastern countries".[2][3][4]

1915 El Paso ban

The Texas city of El Paso was the first American city to individually restrict cannabis, in 1915. The scene for this city ban was set in 1913, when a man killed a police officer in neighboring Ciudad Juarez, Mexico, while chasing an El Paso couple.[5] Chief Deputy Stanley Good of the El Paso Sheriff's Department noted over several media statements:
One under its influence is devoid of fear and as reckless of consequences or results. There are instances where the drug crazed victim has been placed in jail, but in many cases officers have been compelled to slay the fiend in order to save their own lives. ... A large percentage of the crimes committed are by men saturated with the drug... Most Mexicans in this section are addicted to the habit, and it is a growing habit among Americans.[6]

1919 Sale restricted

In 1919, legislation was enacted to prohibit the transfer of narcotics, including cannabis, for non-medical use.[7] Transfer of cannabis in this manner was made a misdemeanor crime;[8] however, possession of the drug still remained legal.[9]

1923 Further restrictions

In 1923, legislation was enacted to prohibit the possession of narcotics, including cannabis, with intent to sell.[7] As a result of this law, cannabis could no longer be purchased over-the-counter at pharmacies (only by prescription).[9]

1931 Prohibition

2015 Border Patrol seizure of cannabis in the Rio Grande Valley
Possession of cannabis was banned statewide in 1931.[9] Until 1973 it would remain classified as a narcotic with the possibility of life sentences imposed for possession of small amounts.[8]

Prior to 1973, Texas had the harshest cannabis laws of any state in the nation, with possession of any amount classified as a felony offense punishable by two years to life in prison.

Offline catfish1957

  • Laken Riley.... Say her Name. And to every past and future democrat voter- Her blood is on your hands too!!!
  • Political Researcher
  • *****
  • Posts: 31,878
  • Gender: Male
Re: Car Crashes in Pot-Legal States Have Soared
« Reply #45 on: November 18, 2019, 06:34:34 pm »
I am not going to argue the moral merits of cannabis, but some of our local TX LEO's seem a bit confused.

Our local Sheriff before being voted out was quoted by our local paper that the "perp" before being arrested, was "All Hopped Up on Marijuana". I think I spewed coffee on my PC with laughter that morning on that one.
I display the Confederate Battle Flag in honor of my great great great grandfathers who spilled blood at Wilson's Creek and Shiloh.  5 others served in the WBTS with honor too.

Online Smokin Joe

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 57,041
  • I was a "conspiracy theorist". Now I'm just right.
Re: Car Crashes in Pot-Legal States Have Soared
« Reply #46 on: November 18, 2019, 06:47:15 pm »
@Smokin Joe

Addicts WILL spend money to get their fixes. Good luck bumming your smokes these days,though!


Nothing mysterious about it. You are a junkie,getting your fix.


Until you start coughing up your lungs in little pieces,of course.


Ok,now you are just making stuff up to justify your fixes.



ROFLMAO!

You give a nicotine junkie a cigarette to call him down because he is excited and NEEDS the fix.

I come from a whole damn family of drunks and heavy smokers,and if ANY of them had even suspected smoking would sober them up,they would have quit smoking on the spot.


You ain't going to like it,but smoking does NOTHING for a non-smoker in any situation,other than to make them cough and try to catch their breath. Yes,it DOES have a calming effect on an addicted smoker because the junkie is getting his or her fix. This ain't rocket science.

 
It started as a social status thing. Only the refined with money to spend could afford to buy tobacco. I,personally,started smoking as a kid by stealing Camel cigarettes from my father and smoking them to get a buzz. Really helped to hold a big hit and then spin around in circles.

Later on,I started smoking them because a smoke break was about the only break you could get in the army. Couldn't smoke on missions because the smell would travel and give away my position,so I stopped. Went back to smoking after getting out of the army because it was one of the few things I enjoyed doing that didn't cost much.


Yeah,and that never happened with cigarettes,right? Try to tell that to someone who ran recon.

Not only that,but you could be hit by lightening,or even have an airplane fall on your head while outside on a smoke break!

Look,I KNOW you are desperate to "prove" that tobacco isn't a drug and you were never an addict,but it just ain't so.

Cheer up,though. You can always truthfully say you were never addicted to illegal drugs.
I never said it isn't a drug. It is. so is coffee, tea, Mountain Dew, Coca-Cola, any energy drink, et fricking cetera.

The definition of a drug is pretty wide, wide enough to take in table salt.

I'm just saying it can have benefits, if overused, like anything else, it causes harm. 
How God must weep at humans' folly! Stand fast! God knows what he is doing!
Seventeen Techniques for Truth Suppression

Of all tyrannies, a tyranny sincerely exercised for the good of its victims may be the most oppressive. It would be better to live under robber barons than under omnipotent moral busybodies. The robber baron's cruelty may sometimes sleep, his cupidity may at some point be satiated; but those who torment us for our own good will torment us without end for they do so with the approval of their own conscience.

C S Lewis

Online Smokin Joe

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 57,041
  • I was a "conspiracy theorist". Now I'm just right.
Re: Car Crashes in Pot-Legal States Have Soared
« Reply #47 on: November 18, 2019, 07:16:55 pm »


@catfish1957   AMEN,AMEN,AMEN!

Anyone caught driving while impaired needs to be hammered by the law. I am NOT saying "shot" or "sent to prison for life",but there should be consequences severe enough to give any sane person pause before hitting the road.

We ALL have the right to risk our own lives using any method we choose,but we do NOT have the right to risk the lives and health of others.

 
But that's the problem with pot.

You need an objective, verifiable, codifiable standard with repeatability in order to define (in a legal sense) what constitutes "impaired".

That's a lot harder to do than it has been with alcohol, and even in the case of alcohol, there have been problems with testing, methodology, and results of Blood Alcohol Content measurements, as well as those not taking in the variation in ability of some people to function with a BAC above legal limits. While set statistically based standards apply, those do not accurately encompass everyone.
Most of us have known people who are looped with just one or two drinks. OTOH, I knew a man who likely woke up with a BAC above .1 every day, and was finally pulled over with a BAC of .46. Not .046, but .46. He drank heavily, hard liquor, for decades, and worked as a mechanic. The police only stopped him because he was going down the shoulder of the road at 25 miles per hour, and not because he was doing that badly, and almost didn't test him but decided to because he smelled like booze, even though he wasn't having problems standing or talking.

In the spectrum of humans' ability to function with drugs, there is a broad range, so even with numerically established limits there are exceptions on both ends of that spectrum, those who can't function with small quantities in their system, and those who can function well far beyond the established limits.

The problems with pot remain:

There is no established limit.
There is no rapid test for the amount in a person's system.
Pot affects different people differently.
Different pot has different effects, due to the concentration of active ingredients.
There is no way to anticipate how much consumption will lead to what effect, without extensive experience by the user, whose judgement of their judgemental abilities may be impaired by the substance they are deciding has had what effect upon them. With the variation in concentrations, that is even more difficult.

All that leaves LEOs and the courts/legislatures with is the subjective standard of "he was messed up" or "I don't think he/she should have been driving", short of an accident, which is often taken as prima facie evidence of impairment. Even in an accident, there is the question of whether or not that consumption contributed to the accident, something now done on a presumptive basis with alcohol. (If you're drunk, and get rear ended while sitting stopped at a red light, it's your fault because you were drunk.)

So pot opens a whole new kettle of worms, from testing to legislating to enforcement to the courts, not to mention legalizing impairment in the one place people are most likely to get busted, their vehicles (because otherwise, in the sanctity of their home, the police might never interact with them). Go a little fast, fail to signal, and any of a catalog of other minor traffic infractions, and you get to meet with LEOs. 

If you can't show the skunk smell is coming from underneath instead of inside the vehicle, expect to have your ride searched.

And FWIW, I don't smoke anything any more, but never was much on weed.
How God must weep at humans' folly! Stand fast! God knows what he is doing!
Seventeen Techniques for Truth Suppression

Of all tyrannies, a tyranny sincerely exercised for the good of its victims may be the most oppressive. It would be better to live under robber barons than under omnipotent moral busybodies. The robber baron's cruelty may sometimes sleep, his cupidity may at some point be satiated; but those who torment us for our own good will torment us without end for they do so with the approval of their own conscience.

C S Lewis

Online Elderberry

  • TBR Contributor
  • *****
  • Posts: 24,639
Re: Car Crashes in Pot-Legal States Have Soared
« Reply #48 on: November 18, 2019, 07:28:07 pm »
They just need to go back to the "Field Inpairment Tests". And with body cams, the police would have a video record of the performance of the test.

Quote
https://www.ingenie.com/young-drivers-guide/what-is-a-field-impairment-test-2

The Field Impairment Test

1.   Pupil measure test

o   Pupil size
o   Pupil condition
o   Reaction to light

Some drugs cause pupils to shrink or enlarge, and this can be checked against a card to indicate abnormal size.

2.   Romberg test

o   Stand still
o   Tilt head back
o   Count 30 seconds

This checks balance and judgement of time - both of which can be impaired by various substances.

3.   Walk and turn test

o   Walk along a straight line, stepping heel to toe
o   Count steps out loud while watching feet
Stumbling or stepping off the line can indicate impairment.

4.   One leg stand test

o   Stand on one leg
o   Count out loud
An intoxicated driver may sway or lose balance.

5.   Finger to nose test

o   Tilt head back with eyes closed
o   Touch finger to nose using the hand indicated
This tests co-ordination, which some drugs can throw off.

« Last Edit: November 18, 2019, 07:29:11 pm by Elderberry »

Online Smokin Joe

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 57,041
  • I was a "conspiracy theorist". Now I'm just right.
Re: Car Crashes in Pot-Legal States Have Soared
« Reply #49 on: November 18, 2019, 07:33:59 pm »
They just need to go back to the "Field Inpairment Tests". And with body cams, the police would have a video record of the performance of the test.
Unfortunately, those tests assume that a person can pass them clean and sober. As far as the stand on the side of the road tests, this is North Dakota, and the wind here is always present and often gusting.
Are the red eyes from smoking weed, or blowing dust?
Pupil diameter will depend on lighting, and that varies as vehicles pass, etc.

Theory works great, in theory. (I'm not saying there aren't people who fail those tests for legitimate reasons--being legitimately impaired--just that it isn't always so.)
How God must weep at humans' folly! Stand fast! God knows what he is doing!
Seventeen Techniques for Truth Suppression

Of all tyrannies, a tyranny sincerely exercised for the good of its victims may be the most oppressive. It would be better to live under robber barons than under omnipotent moral busybodies. The robber baron's cruelty may sometimes sleep, his cupidity may at some point be satiated; but those who torment us for our own good will torment us without end for they do so with the approval of their own conscience.

C S Lewis