The Downfall of Conservatism, Inc.

[PeteS in CA]

I see Rush mentioned this column on his show, https://humanevents.com/2019/11/04/the-downfall-of-conservatism-inc/

The Downfall of Conservatism, Inc.

And over time, I naturally came to admire many of the icons of modern conservatism. I read National Review and The Weekly Standard, the essays of Ayn Rand, and countless history books. My growing familiarity with the conservative “intelligentsia” exposed me to the political points view ostracized by overwhelmingly liberal professors during graduate school.
...
But a decade and a half after the attacks on the World Trade Center, the Pentagon, and Flight 93, another monumental event would soon rattle my worldview and drastically alter my political trajectory.

I’m speaking, of course, of the election of Donald Trump.
...
As Donald J. Trump emerged as a viable contender for the Republican nomination, I realized a man I had, on principle, cultivated a loathing for might actually win and serve as the spokesperson for my principles on the national stage. I’ll be honest: the thought of it made me a little sick.

But I wasn’t a Democrat for a reason, and ours was not the party of corruption. If he won the candidacy, my party had spoken, and that’s who I’d be casting my ballot for.

Sadly, my establishment heroes saw things differently. They began doing their best to copy the tactics and lies of the DNC. Of course, they couldn’t do it officially or on behalf of the Republican Party, but they didn’t have to. The loyalties they had cultivated in Americans like me gave them enough power to sabotage Donald Trump’s campaign.

Or so they thought.
...
Donald Trump would eventually win the presidency. And instead of accepting their defeat in humility and taking the opportunity to reflect on how they had failed their constituents, establishment conservatives launched an all-out insurgency.
...
Conservative writers that I once greatly admired—writers like Steve Hayes, John Podhoretz, and Jennifer Rubin—have been all too happy to flood the airwaves with endless conspiracy theories about so-called collusion between President Trump and Russian hackers.
...
I understand their objection to Trump’s style—three years ago, I myself was put off by it—but style is nothing when measured against substance. Here was a president advancing their agenda—our agenda—didn’t that mean something?

At first, I attributed their open mutiny to pride. Pride is human, and prideful men often make for sore losers.

But now, after ample time to recover from their humiliation, the persistent whining from establishment conservatives has exposed a very ugly truth about our former “leaders.” The George Wills and Tom Nichols of the world were always more interested in self-promotion than advancing conservatism.
...
Establishment Republicans have built entire careers out of playing nice. And it shows.

The threat of banishment from cocktail parties and university lectures—over Donald Trump of all people—has been enough to force much of the right’s pundit class to toss aside their ideals to preserve mainstream acceptance.

While I think "self-promotion" misses the center of that aspect of what the author perceives, I think craving "mainstream acceptance" is spot on. At some point these Never-Trumpers became so peer dependent that when Trump came along with a style they disliked, the fact that he accomplished much they claimed to stand for meant less to them than the rejection they would receive if they backed off on their absolute rejection of Trump.

[Fishrrman]

Lately, overly-doctrinaire-type conservatives (including some right here) have been leavin' a very bad taste in my mouth.

The doctrinaire conservatives would lead us right down the road to defeat, so long as they never had to dirty their hands (and consciences) with the grime of reality, laced with a little pragmatism.

That's a distinction that sticks in their craws, worse than the tinges of angst they feel in their bones whenever Mr. Trump tweets another zinger.

But he fights to win, unlike they -- who fight to lose. And then bow out with a smug grin believing that they never "compromised their principles".

I prefer not to call myself "a conservative" any longer.
Rather, I think of myself as a "traditional-minded American" (with cultural/moral standards from the fifties).

[roamer_1]

Lately, overly-doctrinaire-type conservatives (including some right here) have been leavin' a very bad taste in my mouth.

The doctrinaire conservatives would lead us right down the road to defeat, so long as they never had to dirty their hands (and consciences) with the grime of reality, laced with a little pragmatism.

That's a distinction that sticks in their craws, worse than the tinges of angst they feel in their bones whenever Mr. Trump tweets another zinger.

But he fights to win, unlike they -- who fight to lose. And then bow out with a smug grin believing that they never "compromised their principles".

I prefer not to call myself "a conservative" any longer.
Rather, I think of myself as a "traditional-minded American" (with cultural/moral standards from the fifties).

Nonsense. I am very happy to get my hands dirty. I will fight till my last breath. But what I am fighting *FOR* are those principled things which you are so blithely casting aside. Principles, I might add, which are not present, nor being defended in this current administration. Ergo, I have no dog in this hunt.

But I have no bone to pick with you now - At least you are honest enough to call yourself something else, because what this is is not Conservatism.

Perhaps there is another time when we could agree and fight on common ground. But this ain't it.

[Fishrrman]

I guess the old saying is true:
One draws the most flak when one is over the target...  ;)

[skeeter]

I see Rush mentioned this column on his show, https://humanevents.com/2019/11/04/the-downfall-of-conservatism-inc/

The Downfall of Conservatism, Inc.

While I think "self-promotion" misses the center of that aspect of what the author perceives, I think craving "mainstream acceptance" is spot on. At some point these Never-Trumpers became so peer dependent that when Trump came along with a style they disliked, the fact that he accomplished much they claimed to stand for meant less to them than the rejection they would receive if they backed off on their absolute rejection of Trump.

So much of their bile is directed at Trump supporters, often more so than it is directed at Trump, there seems to be a bit of a sense of betrayal somewhere in there as well.

But, yeah, Trump has actually accomplished much of what the conventional conservative politicians have been promising but not delivering for decades I have no idea why they even now refuse to soften their attitude.

[Hoodat]

I see Rush mentioned this column on his show, https://humanevents.com/2019/11/04/the-downfall-of-conservatism-inc/

The downfall of Conservatism begins when so-called Conservative icons like Rush Limbaugh began to excuse $2 trillion deficits

[skeeter]

The downfall of Conservatism begins when so-called Conservative icons like Rush Limbaugh began to excuse $2 trillion deficits

Everything good happening today is temporary - reducing the size of government by starving the beast is the only way the progressives don't eventually consume everything. And there is no one on the scene with the will and courage to do what it'll take.

[Hoodat]

reducing the size of government by starving the beast is the only way the progressives don't eventually consume everything.

Still waiting for that day to get here.  For the last 12 years, progressives [sic] have gotten everything they have wanted, and more.

And there is no one on the scene with the will and courage to do what it'll take.

Certainly true of Trump.  Can't say that about his 2016 primary opponent though.

[Sighlass]

Lately, overly-doctrinaire-type conservatives (including some right here) have been leavin' a very bad taste in my mouth.

The doctrinaire conservatives would lead us right down the road to defeat, so long as they never had to dirty their hands (and consciences) with the grime of reality, laced with a little pragmatism.

That's a distinction that sticks in their craws, worse than the tinges of angst they feel in their bones whenever Mr. Trump tweets another zinger.

But he fights to win, unlike they -- who fight to lose. And then bow out with a smug grin believing that they never "compromised their principles".

I prefer not to call myself "a conservative" any longer.
Rather, I think of myself as a "traditional-minded American" (with cultural/moral standards from the fifties).

Odd, I was out in my small town with a big ole sign "Sore-Loserman" waving it by myself for a couple of hours. My wife embarrassed and hiding in the shopping center (main part of town) a block away for the couple of hours as I did it. I was approached by police and threatened with jail time, which they promptly back down from when they saw I was not to be intimidated. I was laughed at by some, cheered by many.

I will fight, when something is worth fighting for. I just don't sell myself cheap.

[musiclady]

Lately, overly-doctrinaire-type conservatives (including some right here) have been leavin' a very bad taste in my mouth.

The doctrinaire conservatives would lead us right down the road to defeat, so long as they never had to dirty their hands (and consciences) with the grime of reality, laced with a little pragmatism.

That's a distinction that sticks in their craws, worse than the tinges of angst they feel in their bones whenever Mr. Trump tweets another zinger.

But he fights to win, unlike they -- who fight to lose. And then bow out with a smug grin believing that they never "compromised their principles".

I prefer not to call myself "a conservative" any longer.
Rather, I think of myself as a "traditional-minded American" (with cultural/moral standards from the fifties).

Then supporting Trump should be anathema to you........ that is, if you DID support the moral standards of the fifties.

I'm pretty sure that the "cultural" standards you support are not those that are approved of on this board......

But, roamer is right.  It's good that you don't call what you believe in conservatism......... because it isn't.

[skeeter]

Still waiting for that day to get here.  For the last 12 years, progressives [sic] have gotten everything they have wanted, and more.


Can't say that about his 2016 primary opponent though.

I can, and I supported him. There is NO ONE on the public stage today with the courage.

I don't even know if it's possible anymore. Only about 15% of the budget is discretionary. The rest is military and mandated.

[musiclady]

The downfall of Conservatism begins when so-called Conservative icons like Rush Limbaugh began to excuse $2 trillion deficits

Well, I don't think it began then, but it certainly was the public downfall of Conservatism.

[sneakypete]

  I understand their objection to Trump’s style—three years ago, I myself was put off by it—but style is nothing when measured against substance. Here was a president advancing their agenda—our agenda—didn’t that mean something?

Yes,it means the careers,the livelihoods,and even the futures of the children of these professional liars was and is dependent on their being Party People. They put themselves and their careers ahead of America.

The are whores for rent,not heroes.

[Sighlass]

Speaking of which, I wanted to go back and read the thread on TOS where I did my Sore-Loserman protest and reported about it... but seems FR deletes some older threads with time... all that is left is my bookmark link (on my profile).... hate that I just have the title and a empty link to reflect back on.

The internet is like CDs when they first came out, promised they would last forever, but in reality they either got scratched away or moisture rots it to where it is unplayable.

[sneakypete]

   Nonsense. I am very happy to get my hands dirty. I will fight till my last breath. But what I am fighting *FOR* are those principled things which you are so blithely casting aside.

@roamer_1

HorseHillary! What you are fighting for is something that never existed anywhere but in your fevered imagination.  You have been supporting nothing but losers selling America down the tubes while whispering sweet nothings in your ear to make you feel good about yourself.

YOU HAVE BEEN "PLAYED FOR A FOOL",and still haven't realized it.

[sneakypete]

So much of their bile is directed at Trump supporters, often more so than it is directed at Trump, there seems to be a bit of a sense of betrayal somewhere in there as well.

But, yeah, Trump has actually accomplished much of what the conventional conservative politicians have been promising but not delivering for decades I have no idea why they even now refuse to soften their attitude.

@skeeter

They will  NEVER soften their attitude because to do so would be to admit they were wrong. That just ain't going to happen because they put their egos ahead of what is good for America.

[sneakypete]

The downfall of Conservatism begins when so-called Conservative icons like Rush Limbaugh began to excuse $2 trillion deficits

@Hoodat

Who created those deficits?

[Hoodat]

@Hoodat

Who created those deficits?

Republicans and Democrats

[skeeter]

@skeeter

They will  NEVER soften their attitude because to do so would be to admit they were wrong. That just ain't going to happen because they put their egos ahead of what is good for America.

A great deal of it is hubris, no doubt about that.

[sneakypete]

Still waiting for that day to get here.  For the last 12 years, progressives [sic] have gotten everything they have wanted, and more.


Certainly true of Trump.  Can't say that about his 2016 primary opponent though.

@Hoodat

And you make that judgement based on his two years in office,and budgets that were signed off on before he was even elected? Not to mention the almost total resistance to any budget cuts he tries to make?

Good call,comrade!

[Sighlass]

@Hoodat

And you make that judgement based on his two years in office,and budgets that were signed off on before he was even elected? Not to mention the almost total resistance to any budget cuts he tries to make?

Good call,comrade!

Wow, just wow. I think we can say you are in total la-la land if you can't even acknowledge the budgets Trump has signed/demanded and the lack of cuts in any democrat demands.

[sneakypete]

Then supporting Trump should be anathema to you........ that is, if you DID support the moral standards of the fifties.

 

@musiclady

WHAT "moral standards of the 50's? Abortion,prostitution,theft,bribery,poitical corruption,clergy humping little boys,etc,etc,etc,was rife but just not talked about in "polite company".

You have a right to want to live in any sort of imaginary world you want,but you do NOT have the right to create worlds that never existed.

[Hoodat]

@Hoodat

And you make that judgement based on his two years in office,and budgets that were signed off on before he was even elected? Not to mention the almost total resistance to any budget cuts he tries to make?

Good call,comrade!

I base that off the fact that Trump has control over what Congress appropriates.  It it at his discretion whether or not that money gets either spent or returned to the Treasury.  And for the record, Trump's first two budgets were passed by a Republican Congress.  So no, Trump doesn't get a free pass.

We are soon approaching another stop-gap spending bill to keep the deficit spending flowing.  I will bet my house that Trump signs whatever bill Pelosi and McConnell send him.

[sneakypete]

Republicans and Democrats

@Hoodat

Were any of them named Trump?

[skeeter]

I base that off the fact that Trump has control over what Congress appropriates.  It it at his discretion whether or not that money gets either spent or returned to the Treasury.  And for the record, Trump's first two budgets were passed by a Republican Congress.  So no, Trump doesn't get a free pass.

We are soon approaching another stop-gap spending bill to keep the deficit spending flowing.  I will bet my house that Trump signs whatever bill Pelosi and McConnell send him.

How would you prefer he handle them? What options does he, or any president, have available? Walk me through it.