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Author Topic: Sondland, Trump's appointee, changes testimony to say there was clear quid pro quo  (Read 1216 times)

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Offline Cyber Liberty

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Re: Sondland, Trump's appointee, changes testimony to say there was clear quid pro quo
« Reply #25 on: November 05, 2019, 09:10:23 pm »
There seems to be a debate on what constitutes a "Quid Pro Quo," or if it's illegal (or even unethical).  Anti-Trump has one view, Pro-Trump has another while everybody in neither camp has no idea.
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Offline Cyber Liberty

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Re: Sondland, Trump's appointee, changes testimony to say there was clear quid pro quo
« Reply #26 on: November 05, 2019, 09:11:54 pm »
Quote from: Once-Ler on November 05, 2019, 09:09:36 pm
Steven Hassan author of The Cult of Trump: A Leading Cult Expert Explains How the President Uses Mind Control says that is why people stay in cults.  Nobody wants to admit to themselves they were conned.

That is equally true for the Anti-Trump partisans.  I don't care for the "cult" label, but there is a lot of fervor out at both ends of the partisan spectrum.
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Offline skeeter

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Re: Sondland, Trump's appointee, changes testimony to say there was clear quid pro quo
« Reply #27 on: November 05, 2019, 09:12:00 pm »
Quote from: Once-Ler on November 05, 2019, 09:05:13 pm
Of course, the President's CoS Mick Mulvaney already admitted it for awhile.
Agreed.


https://www.usaid.gov/sites/default/files/documents/1868/200mbo.pdf

Turns out your definition of 'quid pro quo' just might be official US policy.

Who knew?
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Offline Wingnut

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Re: Sondland, Trump's appointee, changes testimony to say there was clear quid pro quo
« Reply #28 on: November 05, 2019, 09:13:18 pm »
Quote from: Cyber Liberty on November 05, 2019, 09:10:23 pm
There seems to be a debate on what constitutes a "Quid Pro Quo," or if it's illegal (or even unethical).  Anti-Trump has one view, Pro-Trump has another while everybody in neither camp has no idea.

They don't call it "The Dead Language" for nutin.  Know one knows what it means!  ;)

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Offline Cyber Liberty

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Re: Sondland, Trump's appointee, changes testimony to say there was clear quid pro quo
« Reply #29 on: November 05, 2019, 09:13:57 pm »
Quote from: skeeter on November 05, 2019, 09:07:36 pm
Isn't insuring a recipient country is taking measures to combat corruption a legal requirement of granting that US aid?

I'm pretty sure it is, for countries who have a Treaty with the US, agreeing to participate in criminal investigations.  Like Ukraine.
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Offline Hoodat

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Re: Sondland, Trump's appointee, changes testimony to say there was clear quid pro quo
« Reply #30 on: November 05, 2019, 09:17:53 pm »
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Offline skeeter

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Re: Sondland, Trump's appointee, changes testimony to say there was clear quid pro quo
« Reply #31 on: November 05, 2019, 09:19:15 pm »
Quote from: Cyber Liberty on November 05, 2019, 09:13:57 pm
I'm pretty sure it is, for countries who have a Treaty with the US, agreeing to participate in criminal investigations.  Like Ukraine.

Well if THATS the case then

"fire the prosecutor currently investigating my son's company or we'll sh*tcan your loan guarantees" would be an actual quid pro quo;

while "we'll send you that aid, by the way we'd appreciate it if you'd also investigate these instance of possible corruption involving US officials" - would be mandated by law.

Does that sound right?



« Last Edit: November 05, 2019, 09:20:01 pm by skeeter »
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Offline DB

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Re: Sondland, Trump's appointee, changes testimony to say there was clear quid pro quo
« Reply #32 on: November 05, 2019, 09:24:17 pm »
Dems say that demanding investigations is just a simple search for the truth based on the seriousness of the charge. That if there's nothing to hide the investigation will find nothing.

Why doesn't that apply to Trump demanding an investigation based on evidence that came out of Biden's own mouth involving the previous Ukraine prosecutor being fired for searching for the truth?

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Offline Cyber Liberty

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Re: Sondland, Trump's appointee, changes testimony to say there was clear quid pro quo
« Reply #33 on: November 05, 2019, 09:32:58 pm »
Quote from: skeeter on November 05, 2019, 09:19:15 pm
Well if THATS the case then

"fire the prosecutor currently investigating my son's company or we'll sh*tcan your loan guarantees" would be an actual quid pro quo;

while "we'll send you that aid, by the way we'd appreciate it if you'd also investigate these instance of possible corruption involving US officials" - would be mandated by law.

Does that sound right?

I would say that first one is a bit more than a Quid Pro Quo.  What Biden has confessed already to doing sounds more like Extortion, straight up.  And a QPQ could be mandated by law, like in a lease for an apartment:  "If you give us rent money, you can live on the premises."
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Offline 240B

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Re: Sondland, Trump's appointee, changes testimony to say there was clear quid pro quo
« Reply #34 on: November 05, 2019, 09:42:24 pm »
Trump predicted that Schitthead would change the transcripts and coach testimony until he gets what he wants.
This is not a real trial. It was never meant to be. It is not a real impeachment. It is just a delaying tactic to harass Trump until the election with the additional benefit of taking pressure off of Biden, Hunter, Obama, and Hillary, by muddying the water and causing confusion.
Everything and anything that comes from Schittface and his circus certainly cannot be trusted.
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Offline Formerly Once-Ler

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Re: Sondland, Trump's appointee, changes testimony to say there was clear quid pro quo
« Reply #35 on: November 05, 2019, 09:50:09 pm »
Quote from: skeeter on November 05, 2019, 09:12:00 pm

https://www.usaid.gov/sites/default/files/documents/1868/200mbo.pdf

Turns out your definition of 'quid pro quo' just might be official US policy.

Who knew?

@skeeter
That's 35 page document.  Why are you sending me homework? 

I'm human scum happy77
I ain't gonna read that.  If million dollar Trump donor Sondland says it was a quid pro quo, I take him at his word.  I'll let the House decide if it's impeachable.
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Offline truth_seeker

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Re: Sondland, Trump's appointee, changes testimony to say there was clear quid pro quo
« Reply #36 on: November 05, 2019, 09:57:05 pm »
Quote from: Cyber Liberty on November 05, 2019, 09:10:23 pm
There seems to be a debate on what constitutes a "Quid Pro Quo," or if it's illegal (or even unethical).  Anti-Trump has one view, Pro-Trump has another while everybody in neither camp has no idea.
Actually above anybody else, the President's job is arranging Quid Pro Quos,

....however the UNELECTED bureacracy is pressing that is their job.

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Offline Formerly Once-Ler

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Re: Sondland, Trump's appointee, changes testimony to say there was clear quid pro quo
« Reply #37 on: November 05, 2019, 10:01:26 pm »
Quote from: truth_seeker on November 05, 2019, 09:57:05 pm
Actually above anybody else, the President's job is arranging Quid Pro Quos,

@truth_seeker
It's bizarre how Trump keeps saying "no quid pro quo" then.  Does he not know his job?
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Offline Cyber Liberty

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Re: Sondland, Trump's appointee, changes testimony to say there was clear quid pro quo
« Reply #38 on: November 05, 2019, 10:06:45 pm »
Quote from: Once-Ler on November 05, 2019, 10:01:26 pm
@truth_seeker
It's bizarre how Trump keeps saying "no quid pro quo" then.  Does he not know his job?

He doesn't know what definition the people questioning him are using.
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Offline XenaLee

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Re: Sondland, Trump's appointee, changes testimony to say there was clear quid pro quo
« Reply #39 on: November 05, 2019, 10:08:16 pm »
Quote from: Cyber Liberty on November 05, 2019, 09:10:23 pm
There seems to be a debate on what constitutes a "Quid Pro Quo," or if it's illegal (or even unethical).  Anti-Trump has one view, Pro-Trump has another while everybody in neither camp has no idea.

And isn't there a treaty that solidifies cooperation re: investigating corruption between the two nations that makes all of this quid pro quo stuff ....

pure BS...?
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Offline Cyber Liberty

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Re: Sondland, Trump's appointee, changes testimony to say there was clear quid pro quo
« Reply #40 on: November 05, 2019, 10:13:25 pm »
Quote from: XenaLee on November 05, 2019, 10:08:16 pm
And isn't there a treaty that solidifies cooperation re: investigating corruption between the two nations that makes all of this quid pro quo stuff ....

pure BS...?

It might be a "Treaty" (ratified with 2/3 of the Senate) or just an agreement, but the point is, there is an agreement at minimum.
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Offline skeeter

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Re: Sondland, Trump's appointee, changes testimony to say there was clear quid pro quo
« Reply #41 on: November 05, 2019, 10:24:55 pm »
Quote from: Once-Ler on November 05, 2019, 09:50:09 pm
@skeeter
That's 35 page document.  Why are you sending me homework? 

I'm human scum happy77
I ain't gonna read that.  If million dollar Trump donor Sondland says it was a quid pro quo, I take him at his word.  I'll let the House decide if it's impeachable.

Why allow troublesome contradictory details intrude upon your zen mind.

Orange man bad hmmmmmmmm
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Offline Hoodat

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Re: Sondland, Trump's appointee, changes testimony to say there was clear quid pro quo
« Reply #42 on: November 05, 2019, 10:28:56 pm »
Only Democrats consider it an impeachable offense to fight against corruption.
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Offline XenaLee

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Re: Sondland, Trump's appointee, changes testimony to say there was clear quid pro quo
« Reply #43 on: November 05, 2019, 10:33:16 pm »
Quote from: Hoodat on November 05, 2019, 10:28:56 pm
Only Democrats consider it an impeachable offense to fight against corruption.

Which pretty much explains why they want convicted felons to be able to vote.  They are shock-sure who those criminals would vote for.
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Offline Right_in_Virginia

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Re: Sondland, Trump's appointee, changes testimony to say there was clear quid pro quo
« Reply #44 on: November 05, 2019, 10:35:43 pm »
Quote from: skeeter on November 05, 2019, 10:24:55 pm
Why allow troublesome contradictory details intrude upon your zen mind.

Orange man bad hmmmmmmmm

 88devil
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Offline cato potatoe

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Re: Sondland, Trump's appointee, changes testimony to say there was clear quid pro quo
« Reply #45 on: November 05, 2019, 11:13:10 pm »
Quote from: Once-Ler on November 05, 2019, 09:50:09 pm
I'm human scum happy77

If it makes you feel any better, Sondland is going to be demoted to human scum pretty soon. 
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Offline aligncare

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Re: Sondland, Trump's appointee, changes testimony to say there was clear quid pro quo
« Reply #46 on: November 05, 2019, 11:19:44 pm »
Quote from: skeeter on November 05, 2019, 09:07:36 pm
Isn't insuring a recipient country is taking measures to combat corruption a legal requirement of granting that US aid?

A great point and one that Andrew McCarthy makes. He thinks rather than say there is no quid pro quo, President Trump should put it into context and say there was no improper quid pro quo—since that simply acknowledges that all foreign aid is conditional and that Trump acted within his proper role.

Hey, taxpayer money isn’t handed out to foreign governments just for the heck of it. Foreign leaders need inducements to pick up the phone when we call for their assistance.
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Offline mystery-ak

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Re: Sondland, Trump's appointee, changes testimony to say there was clear quid pro quo
« Reply #47 on: November 05, 2019, 11:20:12 pm »
Mark Meadows: Gordon Sondland's Testimony Does NOT Confirm Quid Pro Quo

Quote
Rep. Mark Meadows (R-NC) tweeted on Tuesday that despite what many media headlines are reporting with regards to Ambassador Gordon Sondland's testimony, he did not confirm there was a case of quid pro quo between President Trump and Ukraine.

"Seeing many overblown (and outright false) reports about Ambassador Sondland's testimony. Here's what he actually said. 1. I did not (and still don't) know why aid was held up 2. I 'PRESUMED' it was because of corruption 3. I told Yermak my assumption," said Meadows, who sits on the House Oversight and Reform Committee.

more
https://townhall.com/tipsheet/juliorosas/2019/11/05/mark-meadows-sondlands-testimony-does-not-confirm-quid-pro-quo-n2555965
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Offline OfTheCross

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Re: Sondland, Trump's appointee, changes testimony to say there was clear quid pro quo
« Reply #48 on: November 05, 2019, 11:36:58 pm »
Quote from: mystery-ak on November 05, 2019, 11:20:12 pm
Mark Meadows: Gordon Sondland's Testimony Does NOT Confirm Quid Pro Quo

more
https://townhall.com/tipsheet/juliorosas/2019/11/05/mark-meadows-sondlands-testimony-does-not-confirm-quid-pro-quo-n2555965

So, Sondland believes the aid was held up because it was tied to the Ukrainians announcing publicly an investigation into Biden?

Sounds like they've got more digging to do. Have they subpoenaed anyone with first hand knowledge?
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Offline XenaLee

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Re: Sondland, Trump's appointee, changes testimony to say there was clear quid pro quo
« Reply #49 on: November 06, 2019, 12:38:25 am »
Quote from: OfTheCross on November 05, 2019, 11:36:58 pm
So, Sondland believes the aid was held up because it was tied to the Ukrainians announcing publicly an investigation into Biden?

Sounds like they've got more digging to do. Have they subpoenaed anyone with first hand knowledge?

The rats don't need first hand knowledge.  They don't even want it.   Why do you think they changed the whistleblower criteria to include "hearsay".  (duh)
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