Author Topic: Mexico-Watch Thread  (Read 6559 times)

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Online bigheadfred

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Re: MEXICO: Mormon wedding massacre (abbrev. headline) with Updates
« Reply #75 on: November 09, 2019, 01:12:21 am »
@TomSea @Applewood

Here is the thing.

I think there are enough legitimate people fleeing the violence and more or less crappy life they have under either drug cartels or corrupt government officials to be granted at least entry into this country.

But there are too many who are so indoctrinated into the system(s) they are fleeing from it is hard to tell the difference.

What bothers me the most is the article @Applewood posted about the homeless people in Las Vegas. You take a down and out, or mentally deficient citizen and criminalize them---160 cities doing the same, but yet unvetted refugees in by the millions who not only demand free housing, food, etc. They get it. But this country's citizens don't. Our citizens are criminals. The "refugees" aren't?

I am calling bullshit on that.

She asked me name my foe then. I said the need within some men to fight and kill their brothers without thought of Love or God. Ken Hensley

Offline truth_seeker

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Re: MEXICO: Mormon wedding massacre (abbrev. headline) with Updates
« Reply #76 on: November 09, 2019, 02:21:54 am »
Considering a War on the Cartels, think about unfinished long "wars."

Korea, Vietnam, Afghanistan, Iraq, Syria, etc. And War on Drugs.

Reagan encouraged continuous illegal immigration, with 1986 Amnesty.

I frankly don't trust the US government, to protectour national security, with treaitors like Obama, Clinton, Bush, Brennan, Clapper, Comey etc.





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Online bigheadfred

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Re: MEXICO: Mormon wedding massacre (abbrev. headline) with Updates
« Reply #77 on: November 09, 2019, 02:33:55 am »
Considering a War on the Cartels, think about unfinished long "wars."

Korea, Vietnam, Afghanistan, Iraq, Syria, etc. And War on Drugs.

Reagan encouraged continuous illegal immigration, with 1986 Amnesty.

I frankly don't trust the US government, to protectour national security, with treaitors like Obama, Clinton, Bush, Brennan, Clapper, Comey etc.

QFT.

Sorry. I meant.

QFT
« Last Edit: November 16, 2019, 01:13:08 pm by bigheadfred »
She asked me name my foe then. I said the need within some men to fight and kill their brothers without thought of Love or God. Ken Hensley

Offline TomSea

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Re: MEXICO: Mormon wedding massacre (abbrev. headline) with Updates
« Reply #78 on: November 09, 2019, 02:49:59 am »
As it is, we can't get the wall built, some sort of solid security apparatus (with security forces) is needed there. It seems pretty clear, fentanyl comes across and that's a big killer.  So, we too, shoot ourselves in the foot over this. Cartels also make big bucks in human smuggling, I think it was $3 billion a year, it could have been double that.

Offline TomSea

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Re: MEXICO: Mormon wedding massacre (abbrev. headline) with Updates
« Reply #79 on: November 10, 2019, 02:13:55 am »
Quote
After burying last victims, some in Mexico's breakaway Mormon community head north
Lizbeth Diaz

...

With the rites of mourning behind them, many in the community are now at a crossroads, unsure whether they are willing to risk staying in Mexico after the murders shattered their sense of safety.

Adrian LeBaron, 58, the father of Rhonita Miller LeBaron, who was shot dead along with four of her children, said his son-in-law Howard Miller was heading to North Dakota with his surviving children to be with his parents and to work in the state, as he had done in the past.

“Of course they’re going to go where the parents are,” said LeBaron. “Poor Howard, what else can he do?”

...

Read more at: https://www.reuters.com/article/us-mexico-violence-funeral-idUSKBN1XK009

This thread is winding down surely, I hope the survivors and members of the community can do well, wherever they may go.

Offline TomSea

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Re: MEXICO: Mormon wedding massacre (abbrev. headline) with Updates
« Reply #80 on: November 10, 2019, 04:01:11 pm »
Quote
The debate
Newt Gingrich: Building the Wall Can Stop Cartel Killings Inside Mexico, Too | Opinion
By Newt Gingrich On 11/8/19 at 10:32 AM EST

...

The President's goal is right, but the target is wrong.

The key to destroying the Mexican cartels is in America not Mexico.

As long as Americans send an estimated $19 billion to $29 billion in drug money a year to Mexico (as estimated by ICE) there will be cartels willing to take it. Kill one generation of cartel leaders, and a new generation will emerge.


More at: https://www.newsweek.com/mexico-cartels-american-drugs-weapons-gingrich-border-1470676

I wouldn't blame us more than Mexico but I think there is a lot of blame to share.

Offline sneakypete

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Re: MEXICO: Mormon wedding massacre (abbrev. headline) with Updates
« Reply #81 on: November 10, 2019, 05:54:01 pm »
BTW,anyone here ever live in Mexico long enough to have any idea of the general attitude of the typical Mexican (Catholic) to the Mormons and the Mennonites?

Not that it makes any real difference to this story,but I am curious about this.
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Offline TomSea

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Re: MEXICO: Mormon wedding massacre (abbrev. headline) with Updates
« Reply #82 on: November 10, 2019, 11:34:20 pm »
Returning topic to general world news forum.  Non-sticky.

Darn depressing news out of Mexico, honestly. Any new comments to be merged into newer on-topic threads.
« Last Edit: November 11, 2019, 12:23:34 pm by TomSea »

Offline TomSea

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Mexico asks FBI to help probe killing of Americans
« Reply #83 on: November 11, 2019, 02:47:47 am »
Quote
Mexico asks FBI to help probe killing of Americans
www.reuters.com

MEXICO CITY (Reuters) - Mexico on Sunday invited the FBI to participate in the investigation of an attack in its north that killed nine dual citizens of the United States and Mexico.

The Foreign Ministry said it made the invitation through a diplomatic note to the U.S. embassy in Mexico.

“The Mexican government reiterates its commitment to investigate the facts, in order to ... offer justice to the affected families,” it said in a statement.

Read more at: https://www.reuters.com/article/us-mexico-violence-usa/mexico-asks-fbi-to-help-probe-killing-of-americans-idUSKBN1XK0MQ


Thanks to all who participated in the earlier thread.  It got quite large so, perhaps we will return to this more manageable format.

This appears to be a positive development.

Offline truth_seeker

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Re: Mexico asks FBI to help probe killing of Americans
« Reply #84 on: November 11, 2019, 06:19:20 am »
Will Obama holdovers in the CIA, be reporting to little Adam Schitt in thie regard?

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Offline Smokin Joe

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Re: MEXICO: Mormon wedding massacre (abbrev. headline) with Updates
« Reply #85 on: November 11, 2019, 06:55:24 am »
Returning topic to general world news forum.  Non-sticky.

Darn depressing news out of Mexico, honestly.
Well, they have a corrupt government, with corrupt police, so the people who should be enforcing the law are either doing so selectively or not at all. SOunds like the previous batch in the White House, the FBI, DOJ, CIA, etc.

Hopefully, we can get our side cleaned up (a work in progress) and the Mexicans can get theirs.
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Offline TomSea

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Re: MEXICO: Mormon wedding massacre (abbrev. headline) with Updates
« Reply #86 on: November 11, 2019, 07:14:10 pm »
Reopening, I do believe the initial "massacre" was the main incident here; but I don't mind reopening the thread, it just seems that was a bit in the past.

Quote
Mexico makes arrests in massacre of American women, children: minister
Reuters

MEXICO CITY (Reuters) - Mexico has made an unspecified number of arrests over last week’s massacre of three women and six children of dual U.S-Mexican nationality in the north of the country, Security Minister Alfonso Durazo said on Monday.

“There have been arrests, but it’s not up to us to give information,” Durazo told reporters in Mexico City.

The women and children from families of U.S. Mormon origin who settled in Mexico decades ago were killed last Monday on a remote dirt road in the state of Sonora by suspected drug cartel gunmen, sparking outrage and condemnation in the United States.

 More at: https://www.reuters.com/article/us-mexico-violence-idUSKBN1XL27N

So, see, they are not giving up information on the suspects and why? The criminals are certainly known to strike back, they have no morals, no ethics.

Also, I thought I saw yesterday, that 100 Mormons have said they are leaving the area but we really need to confirm that, I am on the look out for further info.

Unlocked, I don't know if we need to make it a sticky thread again. We are past the initial phase of the story of about a week ago.
« Last Edit: November 11, 2019, 07:16:43 pm by TomSea »

Offline truth_seeker

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Re: MEXICO: Mormon wedding massacre (abbrev. headline) with Updates
« Reply #87 on: November 12, 2019, 03:39:16 am »
I know quite a few Hispanic or Mexican American vets, that would go sacrifice once again, for this situation.
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Offline sneakypete

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Re: MEXICO: Mormon wedding massacre (abbrev. headline) with Updates
« Reply #88 on: November 12, 2019, 03:49:01 am »
I know quite a few Hispanic or Mexican American vets, that would go sacrifice once again, for this situation.

@truth_seeker

Correction! You know quite a few AMERICAN vets that would go sacrifice once again,for this situation.

So do I. I would even join them if they needed a mobile gunner.
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Offline TomSea

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Re: MEXICO: Mormon wedding massacre (abbrev. headline) with Updates
« Reply #89 on: November 12, 2019, 11:26:33 am »
Quote
https://www.foxnews.com/media/husband-and-son-of-mexico-cartel-victim-speak-out-on-loss-of-family-members

Husband and son of Mexico cartel victim speak out on loss of family members
By Charles Creitz | Fox News

Video, interviews. Amazing, on The Story with Martha McCallum.

The boy who walked 14 miles for help.
« Last Edit: November 12, 2019, 11:27:30 am by TomSea »

Offline TomSea

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Re: MEXICO: Mormon wedding massacre (abbrev. headline) with Updates
« Reply #90 on: November 17, 2019, 03:25:29 pm »
There is no way to authenticate this video but it looks legitimate to me:
Quote
Scotty McGuire
@McguireScotty
Mexico:
😡


Caution entering into Mexico from Texas!

Video of family Crossing into Mexico only to be met by Cartel. The Northeast Cartel is extorting & robbing people entering into Mexico.

This family quickly turned around and went back into Texas.


https://twitter.com/McguireScotty/status/1195989119937269760

I can't see everything here but to me, it'd make sense for highway robbery, extortion to happen this way down there.  This video bothered me, so I am posting it. Crazy. Nuts.

And yet, despite this, for example, I saw the state of Oaxaca experienced phenomenal economic growth. Economic growth reports on Mexico are often very good.

The state that is South of at least part of Texas, Coahuila where Torreon is??? It's ranked as safe still.  Looks like that's where Eagle Pass is. The state where Merida is, Yucatan? That city is safe too, per a report I saw.

« Last Edit: November 17, 2019, 03:30:17 pm by TomSea »

Offline TomSea

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Re: Mexico-Watch Thread
« Reply #91 on: November 17, 2019, 09:03:17 pm »
Quote
Mexico prison raid leads to chaos in border city
By CHRISTOPHER SHERMAN

As 850 Mexican local, state and federal security personnel prepared to raid a big state prison near the U.S. border, criminals inside orchestrated a wave of chaos outside the walls in Ciudad Juarez.

Ten people were killed in various incidents around the city Tuesday night and early Wednesday as criminals tried unsuccessfully to create a diversion or pressure authorities to stop the raid, officials said.

"At least eight of these murders were tied to the diversion issue," Chihuahua state prosecutor Jorge Nava said.

Read more at: https://www.chicagotribune.com/sns-bc-lt--mexico-violence-20191107-story.html

This story is unreal too. If this happened in the US, they'd be talking about it for years.  Check the story for more details, 2 planeloads of Federal Police were flown in and one, at least, I didn't hear about this story that was published on November 11th, we really need a gut check on all of this in Mexico as of course, a lot of people fight against building proper security on the border.
« Last Edit: November 17, 2019, 11:06:25 pm by TomSea »

Offline TomSea

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Re: Mexico-Watch Thread
« Reply #92 on: November 20, 2019, 01:29:55 am »
Quote
Narcos force 1,000 families to seek refuge in Guerrero
mexiconewsdaily.com
Narcos force 1,000 families to seek refuge in Guerrero
Men are being kidnapped, homes and vehicles stolen in Zirándaro
Published on Tuesday, November 19, 2019

Over 1,000 Guerrero families are living as refugees after fleeing their homes due to threats they received from the La Familia Michoacana cartel.

The families are staying in Zirándaro, where Mayor Gregorio Portillo Mendoza said three people had been kidnapped on Sunday and Monday.

He said the kidnappers travel to communities and force local men to arm themselves and go with them. As a result, residents have been fleeing their villages in order to avoid the kidnappers, who also rob families of their homes and vehicles, he added.


https://mexiconewsdaily.com/news/narcos-force-1000-families-to-seek-refuge-in-guerrero/

Awful, though in this case, it looke like the cartel is mainly trying to get more manpower.
« Last Edit: November 20, 2019, 01:30:43 am by TomSea »

Offline TomSea

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Quote
Inside the bloody cartel war for Mexico’s multibillion-dollar avocado industry
 Nov. 20, 2019

URUAPAN, Mexico —

The cartel members showed up in this verdant stretch of western Mexico armed with automatic weapons and chainsaws.

Soon they were cutting timber day and night, the crash of falling trees echoing throughout the virgin forest. When locals protested, explaining that the area was protected from logging, they were held at gunpoint and ordered to keep quiet.

Stealing wood was just a prelude to a more ambitious plan.

...


The entrance to Tancitaro, an avocado-growing hub in Mexico that created its own vigilante police force protect the local avocado trade.
(Gary Coronado / Los Angeles Times)


Read more at: https://www.latimes.com/world-nation/story/2019-11-20/mexico-cartel-violence-avocados

Big article in the LA Times, about the 4th article from the news agencies covering this phenomenon. Lots of money to be made in the avocado industry.
« Last Edit: November 21, 2019, 12:16:32 pm by TomSea »

Online GtHawk

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Big article in the LA Times, about the 4th article from the news agencies covering this phenomenon. Lots of money to be made in the avocado industry.
And once upon a time it was made here in America, back when Fallbrook, CA was known as the Avocado capital of the world.

Offline TomSea

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Re: Mexico-Watch Thread
« Reply #95 on: November 23, 2019, 02:22:10 am »
This is pretty interesting, we got Mexico to arrest one of their judges that we say is connected to the Cartels:

Quote
Mexico arrests judge linked by US to notorious cartel
Mexican authorities say they have arrested a judge who the U.S. Treasury Department alleges is linked to the Jalisco New Generation cartel, one of the country’s bloodiest organized crime groups
By MARÍA VERZA Associated Press
November 22, 2019, 5:59 PM

A Mexico judge whom the U.S. Treasury Department accuses of ties to Jalisco New Generation, one of the country’s bloodiest drug cartels, was arrested in the city of Guadalajara on Friday, judicial authorities said.

https://abcnews.go.com/International/wireStory/mexico-arrests-judge-linked-us-notorious-cartel-67241676

Mexico’s General Council of the Judiciary, which announced the arrest of 59-year-old Isidro Avelar Gutiérrez and said he was being taken to Mexico City, had filed a complaint against him with federal prosecutors in May over purported “asset irregularities and additional income.”

Offline TomSea

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One very interesting thing in this article is how it says we actually had a  USDA (dept. of agriculture) office in the state of Michoacan to expedite business with the avocado growers. Sounds like that office also got closed eventually because of intimidation from the cartels.

Offline truth_seeker

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And once upon a time it was made here in America, back when Fallbrook, CA was known as the Avocado capital of the world.
The popular Hass variety was developed in La Habra Heights, a Los Angeles suburb (of nearby Morth Orange County town, Laa Habra)

In SoCal Avacados often found near Citrus, oranges and lemons.
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Offline TomSea

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Former Amazon Mexico Head Accused Of Killing Wife
« Reply #98 on: November 29, 2019, 06:56:22 pm »
Quote
Abril Pérez Sagaón: Shooting sparks feminist outcry in Mexico

bbc.com

The former head of Amazon Mexico is wanted for questioning after his wife was apparently killed by a hitman in Mexico City.

Abril Pérez Sagaón was shot dead in a car on Monday in front of two of her teenage children.

Read more at:  https://www.bbc.com/news/world-latin-america-50601975

I posted the lead in headline on the world new service of the BBC, telks you more directly, what this is about.

Pretty horrible.
« Last Edit: November 29, 2019, 07:01:08 pm by TomSea »

Offline TomSea

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Excerpt:

Quote
Mexico’s Human Rights Landscape During President López Obrador’s First Year in Office

...

Torture

In May, the UN Committee against Torture recognized a “very high frequency” of torture committed by security forces and investigative officials, particularly during arrests and the first hours and days of detention. The Committee expressed particular concern over the lack of access to basic procedural safeguards (such as lawyers) following detention, and the continued use of statements obtained through torture in criminal trials.

According to the Committee, the lack of adequate investigation into torture complaints raises serious doubts about the impartiality of those responsible for carrying out such investigations. Indeed, the federal government has secured only 15 firm torture convictions since 2006.

Over two years have passed since Mexico passed the General Law on Torture, a law designed to strengthen the country’s legal framework to prevent and punish torture, and to prohibit the use of evidence obtained through torture in criminal trials. However, the law continues to suffer from incomplete implementation and widespread incompliance.

Read more at: https://www.wola.org/analysis/mexico-human-rights-lopez-obrador/

Another point I would make, is if the cartels truly controlled Mexico, why would security forces be accused of torture and in some cases, "extra-judicial" executions (which from what I'm aware of, have happened already for decades) (also, "extra-judicial" executions are associated with the police for the most part, not so much the military, the army, needs to be said).  A lot of this, that they are accused of seem to be against the criminal organizations. So, it's far from full control.

And, if they are doing this against the Cartels, well, sorry about that....but if it is against the cartels, they sort of deserve it.

Quote

Mexican Army Accused of Massive Human Rights Violations, Putting US in Tough Position


In a July 9, 2009 expose for The Washington Post ("Mexican Army Using Torture to Battle Drug Traffickers, Rights Groups Say"), Steve Fainaru and William Booth report that "The Mexican army has carried out forced disappearances, acts of torture and illegal raids in pursuit of drug traffickers, according to documents and interviews with victims, their families, political leaders and human rights monitors." Fainaru and Booth describe gruesome torture tactics employed by members of the Mexican army seeking information, acts of rape and physical assault committed against women and men of varying ages, and reports of soldiers stealing " food, milk, clothing and medication" from civilian families. Although the Post does not - indeed, cannot - provide exact figures regarding the number of human rights violations carried out by the government-backed armed forces, it cites a 2007 National Human Rights Commission report, which "concluded that the army committed abuses against 65 people" over a period of just three days in the state of Michoacan alone.

As the writers explain, "Mexican security forces have long had a spotty human rights record, but the growing number of abuse allegations appears to be a direct response to the savagery unleashed by the cartels after President Felipe Calderon put the military in charge of the drug war in December 2006." According to the article, Mexican officials claim both that the reported incidents are isolated and that "drug traffickers may be accusing the army of torture and other human rights violations as propaganda and to deflect attention from the government's attempts to dismantle their operations." Interior Minister Fernando Gomez Mont, " who is responsible for coordinating security operations across Mexico," states that he "'know that the armed forces are not acting innappropriately, although there have been some cases.'" He continues, "'The government honestly believes that. There is no incentive for abuse.'" However, numerous documents, eyewitness and victims' testimonies, and reports from human rights groups contradict officials' claims.

Read more at: Common Sense Drug Policy

The army does Mexico well, imho, where they are. The problem is, they can't be everywhere. That part of Sonora where that family was killed, apparently, did not have the army in that particular area.

And some parts of the army and navy are corrupt.  Still, probably the best thing going for the country.

Mexico is gruesome, to me, it's difficult to even say Venezuela is worse. It'd be a matter of research, I'd probably think Venezuela is worse but I'd have to read up.

« Last Edit: November 30, 2019, 06:57:11 pm by TomSea »