Author Topic: They Asked if People Would Rather Kill a Human or a Sentient Robot Part 2  (Read 13314 times)

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Offline Weird Tolkienish Figure

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Re: They Asked if People Would Rather Kill a Human or a Sentient Robot Part 2
« Reply #50 on: October 09, 2020, 12:33:10 am »
Hey Fred/Roamer, what do you guys think of this?



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Online roamer_1

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Re: They Asked if People Would Rather Kill a Human or a Sentient Robot Part 2
« Reply #51 on: October 09, 2020, 01:40:15 am »
Hey Fred/Roamer, what do you guys think of this?


@Weird Tolkienish Figure

The tech side of me is impressed. The fluid motion is a gas, the balance and load-sensing is much improved. The hard part to me is going to be translating 3 dimensions from vid, which is why it has a 'stair mode' I bet. Right now it looks like it is all load sensing and balance with some sense of obstacle avoidance. But to get true autonomous navigation in an unpredictable environment looks to be a ways off.

The spirit side of me doesn't like it. Other-worldly. unnatural/creepy. Tech always has a downside that will be exercised and can't be exorcised (that was just for you Fred). You likely see a different future there than I do... I see that with 360 degree awareness, running through the woods like  wolf, with an automatic fifty on it's back.

Offline Weird Tolkienish Figure

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Re: They Asked if People Would Rather Kill a Human or a Sentient Robot Part 2
« Reply #52 on: October 09, 2020, 05:15:13 pm »
@Weird Tolkienish Figure

The tech side of me is impressed. The fluid motion is a gas, the balance and load-sensing is much improved. The hard part to me is going to be translating 3 dimensions from vid, which is why it has a 'stair mode' I bet. Right now it looks like it is all load sensing and balance with some sense of obstacle avoidance. But to get true autonomous navigation in an unpredictable environment looks to be a ways off.

The spirit side of me doesn't like it. Other-worldly. unnatural/creepy. Tech always has a downside that will be exercised and can't be exorcised (that was just for you Fred). You likely see a different future there than I do... I see that with 360 degree awareness, running through the woods like  wolf, with an automatic fifty on it's back.

My wife thought it was creepy as do a lot of people (google "uncanny valley"). I think it's neat but this will absolutely be used as a weapon, even a terrorist weapon at some point. I guess Boston Dynamics has you sign a waiver promising not to use this thing to do harm (seems pointless though).

But I feel it's probably the most advanced robot in the world now... when it stands in a prone position, it looks like a real animal, balancing and constantly making calculations on how to stay upright... like a real dog would or like a human does subconsciously.

It's interesting to say the least.

Online bigheadfred

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Re: They Asked if People Would Rather Kill a Human or a Sentient Robot Part 2
« Reply #53 on: October 10, 2020, 03:33:31 am »
My wife thought it was creepy as do a lot of people (google "uncanny valley"). I think it's neat but this will absolutely be used as a weapon, even a terrorist weapon at some point. I guess Boston Dynamics has you sign a waiver promising not to use this thing to do harm (seems pointless though).

But I feel it's probably the most advanced robot in the world now... when it stands in a prone position, it looks like a real animal, balancing and constantly making calculations on how to stay upright... like a real dog would or like a human does subconsciously.

It's interesting to say the least.

The tech is great. What I want to see is the human world advantage.

The creepiness is I don't like roombas. It is the falsity of it that hits you at a deep visceral level.

And I ask myself why the distrust? Because it it is someone trying to create a mimicry of this life and force me to it.

Graham Hancock makes an interesting point. "We are a species with Amnesia".

People aren't afraid of the dark. They are afraid of what is hidden in it.
She asked me name my foe then. I said the need within some men to fight and kill their brothers without thought of Love or God. Ken Hensley

Online bigheadfred

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Re: They Asked if People Would Rather Kill a Human or a Sentient Robot Part 2
« Reply #54 on: October 10, 2020, 03:49:11 am »
@Weird Tolkienish Figure

The tech side of me is impressed. The fluid motion is a gas, the balance and load-sensing is much improved. The hard part to me is going to be translating 3 dimensions from vid, which is why it has a 'stair mode' I bet. Right now it looks like it is all load sensing and balance with some sense of obstacle avoidance. But to get true autonomous navigation in an unpredictable environment looks to be a ways off.

The spirit side of me doesn't like it. Other-worldly. unnatural/creepy. Tech always has a downside that will be exercised and can't be exorcised (that was just for you Fred). You likely see a different future there than I do... I see that with 360 degree awareness, running through the woods like  wolf, with an automatic fifty on it's back.

Here is the thing. We already have it. It is already here/there. We should try to convince wolves to be our friend. Instead of replacing them.
She asked me name my foe then. I said the need within some men to fight and kill their brothers without thought of Love or God. Ken Hensley

Online roamer_1

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Re: They Asked if People Would Rather Kill a Human or a Sentient Robot Part 2
« Reply #55 on: October 10, 2020, 08:34:48 am »
My wife thought it was creepy as do a lot of people (google "uncanny valley"). I think it's neat but this will absolutely be used as a weapon, even a terrorist weapon at some point. I guess Boston Dynamics has you sign a waiver promising not to use this thing to do harm (seems pointless though).

But I feel it's probably the most advanced robot in the world now... when it stands in a prone position, it looks like a real animal, balancing and constantly making calculations on how to stay upright... like a real dog would or like a human does subconsciously.

It's interesting to say the least.

@Weird Tolkienish Figure

I find it interesting too - In it's current capacity, or even with some sort of rudimentary AI toward navigation autonomy and decision-making... In that much capacity, it is still a machine,  and a wonderment... A fun and potentially useful piece of tech...

But as we both know, it won't stay at that level. 'They' won't let it.

And I will mess with it up to a point.. like I do with AI, trying to get near the bleeding edge. There is a place for that which is useful, even if it's mostly stupid pet tricks. Google as an instance. I use the heck out of Google. 

I will say that if Giggles (Assistant) is an example of AI, there is a very, very long way to go. But I use it. Giggles keeps track of all my appointments, reminds me to do things sometimes - just enough times to make it seem short of reliable... I have set up routines... When I wake, and when I go out, and I am even exploring smart home stuff as it is safe to do...I don't care if some super computer somewhere has control of my porch light (actually a different porch light), So as part of my 'I'm Home' routine, if it happens to be dark, Giggles will turn on that porch light. Kewl.

I am even writing my own, for kicks... As part of my wake up routine, Giggles sends a magic packet to my main server waking it up, and telling it (though an internal routine) to wake up the whole network... All of my sleeping system comes to life 3 1/2 minutes after I say 'Good morning Giggles' - Which also reads my agenda to me, tells me about my day, tells me the weather, and then plays the latest Fox News report. Fun. Useful. No, not really. All just stupid pet tricks. I could literally do all that myself in almost the same amount of time.

Cortana is another thing.  Ever try leaving the mike on in your PC? Howabout in 7 machines? Say 'cortana' and they all respond! What a headache that is. And all the things you would want it to actually DO, it can't do. "Hey cortana... copy this folder (file explorer window in focus) to the thumb drive in 'Plato' (a computer name)" Nope. Won't happen.

AI loses all it's usefulness on a local LAN, which is exactly the opposite of what you would think. you would think it the most powerful in a localized network. No, what makes it useful is when it is on the fly.

I see Robotics in much the same way... Right now, there's things I would like to do to turn my truck into a robot. It already knows it is HOME, and will back up to the house network before shutting down... I WANT a backup cam... I want proximity sensors, and load sensors would be awesome on the bed. Nav is awesome, and a real interaction with Giggles would be great. All super fun and barely useful.

At this stage, in exploration, it's a lot of fun to dick with. And I HAVE to, to be able to understand it when it gets serious enough to be dangerous. But even as it all is now, look at the danger. You are literally tracked, everywhere you go. and that little bit of use is paid for in grievous destruction of privacy - Even as it is now.

And therein lies the problem. In the big picture, it always seems to be the surrender of liberty and privacy - and way more than it is worth.
« Last Edit: October 10, 2020, 08:38:57 am by roamer_1 »

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Re: They Asked if People Would Rather Kill a Human or a Sentient Robot Part 2
« Reply #56 on: October 10, 2020, 08:42:09 am »
Here is the thing. We already have it. It is already here/there. We should try to convince wolves to be our friend. Instead of replacing them.

That's really right. A dog is way more reliable, has a far better autonomy, far better 360 degree awareness, and eats the same things you do. And he loves you. And will die fighting for you.

Same goes with a mule. and it automatically recharges in 6 hrs or so and runs on grass. How do you beat that?

Offline Gefn

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Re: They Asked if People Would Rather Kill a Human or a Sentient Robot Part 2
« Reply #57 on: October 10, 2020, 10:53:40 am »
@roamer_1 dogs might eat everything I do except chocolate

Never give a doggy chocolate.
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Re: They Asked if People Would Rather Kill a Human or a Sentient Robot Part 2
« Reply #58 on: October 10, 2020, 11:43:56 am »
@roamer_1 dogs might eat everything I do except chocolate

Never give a doggy chocolate.

Well yes, of course, @Gefn ... But if I eat fish, he'll eat fish, and if I eat rabbit, he'll eat rabbit. That can even be complimentary, because for instance, if I get a deer, he will happily fill his belly on the gut pile without even messing with the parts I might want. 

Compare that to that electronic dog, that needs to eat electricity. That means solar panels at the very least or a generator, or a whole bunch of batteries to plug into him. Whole different scenario there if you're off in the woods, which is what I was getting at.

Offline Weird Tolkienish Figure

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Re: They Asked if People Would Rather Kill a Human or a Sentient Robot Part 2
« Reply #59 on: October 10, 2020, 12:15:39 pm »
Compare that to that electronic dog, that needs to eat electricity. That means solar panels at the very least or a generator, or a whole bunch of batteries to plug into him. Whole different scenario there if you're off in the woods, which is what I was getting at.

Solar would be feasible but time consuming. The way to run these things in scenarios like this is like you said, with a ton of batteries. According to the internet, one battery gives this thing 90 minutes life.

Biggest thing holding back robots at this time is our primitive battery tech.

Offline Weird Tolkienish Figure

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Re: They Asked if People Would Rather Kill a Human or a Sentient Robot Part 2
« Reply #60 on: October 10, 2020, 12:25:10 pm »
Here is the thing. We already have it. It is already here/there. We should try to convince wolves to be our friend. Instead of replacing them.

That's a good question, Boston Dynamics has spent millions... maybe billions, not sure... creating something we already have a lot of of. I mean, I know you don't like roombas, but i've never seen a dog vacuum a floor. Only scenario i can see for this thing is operating in environments dogs would find hazardous or dangerous.

I was thinking this could be good for older people who don't like stairs (for example, carrying laundry or groceries up/down stairs), but then that got me thinking why you couldn't train dogs to carry stuff up and down stairs, they'd probably enjoy the exercise. Back in the 90's they sold dog packs, but my guess is they weren't good for the dogs because i don't see them around any more.
« Last Edit: October 10, 2020, 12:27:20 pm by Weird Tolkienish Figure »

Offline Weird Tolkienish Figure

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Re: They Asked if People Would Rather Kill a Human or a Sentient Robot Part 2
« Reply #61 on: October 10, 2020, 12:37:08 pm »
BHF, are you conflicted being so anti-digital/robot and yet using a computer to communicate so much?

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Re: They Asked if People Would Rather Kill a Human or a Sentient Robot Part 2
« Reply #62 on: October 10, 2020, 02:35:34 pm »
I was thinking this could be good for older people who don't like stairs (for example, carrying laundry or groceries up/down stairs), but then that got me thinking why you couldn't train dogs to carry stuff up and down stairs, they'd probably enjoy the exercise. Back in the 90's they sold dog packs, but my guess is they weren't good for the dogs because i don't see them around any more.

I don't have one for Chewy, And Mose never got out in the woods much (that's while I was in business or screaming sick), but ALL of my malamutes were trained to pack and to sled. Dog packs are still very much a thing, and it is customary for the dog to carry his own gear and food.

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Re: They Asked if People Would Rather Kill a Human or a Sentient Robot Part 2
« Reply #63 on: October 10, 2020, 02:43:51 pm »
Solar would be feasible but time consuming. The way to run these things in scenarios like this is like you said, with a ton of batteries. According to the internet, one battery gives this thing 90 minutes life.

Biggest thing holding back robots at this time is our primitive battery tech.

Solar is actually getting really good. Feasible even. $10-15k will put in a system capable of all the modern conveniences, to include air conditioning (using mini-splits). Some of that is better efficiencies in appliances, but the li-iron batteries, better solar cells and more efficient inversion and controller tech is fine tuning things to an amazing degree. On a micro level, I have two fold-out solar panels made for camping that put out close to 300 watts. enough to recharge just about everything, and still run a portable fridge. The same with power blocks. they are spendy (about a buck a watt), but a 1000watt power brick makes a terrific buffer.

Offline Smokin Joe

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Re: They Asked if People Would Rather Kill a Human or a Sentient Robot Part 2
« Reply #64 on: October 11, 2020, 08:40:20 am »
That's a good question, Boston Dynamics has spent millions... maybe billions, not sure... creating something we already have a lot of of. I mean, I know you don't like roombas, but i've never seen a dog vacuum a floor. Only scenario i can see for this thing is operating in environments dogs would find hazardous or dangerous.

I was thinking this could be good for older people who don't like stairs (for example, carrying laundry or groceries up/down stairs), but then that got me thinking why you couldn't train dogs to carry stuff up and down stairs, they'd probably enjoy the exercise. Back in the 90's they sold dog packs, but my guess is they weren't good for the dogs because i don't see them around any more.
I dunno, dogs used to be light pack animals here before the locals got horses, among other duties.
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Re: They Asked if People Would Rather Kill a Human or a Sentient Robot Part 2
« Reply #65 on: October 13, 2020, 12:16:52 am »
Study reveals big regional divides in views on AI risks

A new study of opinions on using AI in decision-making shows views on the risks and benefits vary greatly between regions and nations.

Researchers from the Oxford Commission on AI and Good Governance revealed the findings after analyzing survey data from a sample of 154,195 respondents in 142 countries collected for the 2019 World Risk Poll.

One question asked respondents whether “machines or robots that can think and make decisions, often known as artificial intelligence” will mostly help or harm people in their country in the next 20 years.

Worries that it will be mostly harmful were highest in Latin America and the Caribbean (49% of respondents), North America (47%), and Europe (43%), and lowest in East Asia (11%) and Southeast Asia (25%).

People in China appear particularly enthusiastic about the prospects. Despite numerous reports of Xi Jinping’s government using AI to foster totalitarian rule, only 9% of respondents in the country said the tech will be mostly harmful, while 59% believe it will be mostly beneficial.

https://thenextweb.com/neural/2020/10/12/study-reveals-big-regional-divides-in-views-on-ai-risks/
She asked me name my foe then. I said the need within some men to fight and kill their brothers without thought of Love or God. Ken Hensley

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Re: They Asked if People Would Rather Kill a Human or a Sentient Robot Part 2
« Reply #66 on: October 13, 2020, 12:19:17 am »
Pretty sure disagreeing with the CCP is still a death sentence. No surprise the Chinese see the benefit.
She asked me name my foe then. I said the need within some men to fight and kill their brothers without thought of Love or God. Ken Hensley

Online roamer_1

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Re: They Asked if People Would Rather Kill a Human or a Sentient Robot Part 2
« Reply #67 on: October 13, 2020, 02:53:22 am »
Worries that it will be mostly harmful were highest in Latin America and the Caribbean (49% of respondents), North America (47%), and Europe (43%) [...]

So Christendom, in a word...  :pondering:

Offline Smokin Joe

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Re: They Asked if People Would Rather Kill a Human or a Sentient Robot Part 2
« Reply #68 on: October 13, 2020, 06:20:15 am »
So Christendom, in a word...  :pondering:
No deus ex machina for us!
How God must weep at humans' folly! Stand fast! God knows what he is doing!
Seventeen Techniques for Truth Suppression

Of all tyrannies, a tyranny sincerely exercised for the good of its victims may be the most oppressive. It would be better to live under robber barons than under omnipotent moral busybodies. The robber baron's cruelty may sometimes sleep, his cupidity may at some point be satiated; but those who torment us for our own good will torment us without end for they do so with the approval of their own conscience.

C S Lewis

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Re: They Asked if People Would Rather Kill a Human or a Sentient Robot Part 2
« Reply #69 on: October 13, 2020, 09:36:37 am »
No deus ex machina for us!
[/]

For sure not for me.  We set up  a security camera system recently.  Had it in a box, brand new for at least four years. It took a smartphone app to activate it. We don't have a smartphone. Had to borrow one. Frustrating.

She asked me name my foe then. I said the need within some men to fight and kill their brothers without thought of Love or God. Ken Hensley

Offline Gefn

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Re: They Asked if People Would Rather Kill a Human or a Sentient Robot Part 2
« Reply #70 on: October 13, 2020, 09:38:07 am »
No deus ex machina for us!
[/]

For sure not for me.  We set up  a security camera system recently.  Had it in a box, brand new for at least four years. It took a smartphone app to activate it. We don't have a smartphone. Had to borrow one. Frustrating.

@bigheadfred if I lived near you, I would let you borrow my iPhone.
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Re: They Asked if People Would Rather Kill a Human or a Sentient Robot Part 2
« Reply #71 on: October 13, 2020, 09:45:24 am »
@bigheadfred if I lived near you, I would let you borrow my iPhone.

Thanks. I should have been able to connect with my Wi-Fi computer. But I have it dedicated now. Separate system. Haven't figured out all of it. Sure made some neighbors nervous.
She asked me name my foe then. I said the need within some men to fight and kill their brothers without thought of Love or God. Ken Hensley

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Re: They Asked if People Would Rather Kill a Human or a Sentient Robot Part 2
« Reply #72 on: October 13, 2020, 10:02:31 am »
Thanks. I should have been able to connect with my Wi-Fi computer. But I have it dedicated now. Separate system. Haven't figured out all of it. Sure made some neighbors nervous.

My sister put up one of those Ring doorbells in my mom’s house. A lot of her neighbors have them. She’s in a 55 and older community, but they had some high school kids trying to break into cars, and some other kids trying to steal Amazon/Fedex packages. This way she can see all this if it happens to her.

I don’t care for it. I can see any visitor to her house. I have a link to her feed, as does my sister. We see the mailman, the guy who cuts her grass, her friends stop by. We see joggers and people walking their dogs go by and every time a car goes by, that also activates it. At night deer activate it all night long because it’s mating season.

Now my sister wants to put one in her house to check on her Incase she falls and can’t get up. I’m against that. Too much AI. Sis has one at her home so she can watch her puppy when she’s at work.

Too much technology. But I am still waiting for my Jetsons flying car, lol.
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Re: They Asked if People Would Rather Kill a Human or a Sentient Robot Part 2
« Reply #73 on: October 13, 2020, 10:21:37 am »
We got this system because of my ex-DILs drug exploits. The people across the street are causing chaos. They have been given an eviction notice. The ex dil got arrested and charged with EIGHT more felonies but is back in the streets. She is a nightmare and has said she would take her kids if she got the chance.
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Re: They Asked if People Would Rather Kill a Human or a Sentient Robot Part 2
« Reply #74 on: October 13, 2020, 10:25:55 am »
BHF, are you conflicted being so anti-digital/robot and yet using a computer to communicate so much?

Tech is great as a tool. But not as a control feature over my life.
She asked me name my foe then. I said the need within some men to fight and kill their brothers without thought of Love or God. Ken Hensley