The Worst Part About Getting Sick Isn’t Medical Bills

[Right_in_Virginia]

This is called a 401(k) Plan/IRA and/or a savings account.

You might want to consider a Long-Term Care Insurance Plan, too.  Although these become pretty damn expensive the older one is when initially enrolled.

[roamer_1]

That really depends on your expenses, though. Those savings could last me a couple of years. Not counting medial expenses...

Oh the medical expenses count, believe you me.
And what will happen when every medical expense is 'free' is exactly the same thing - long term coverage will depend upon your resources, and every resource you have will be taken, be it by the government or by the medical/pharma conglomerate.

You will not get to keep your sh*t. You will get to keep your home, if it is modest, and one car is exempt.

[OfTheCross]

Oh the medical expenses count, believe you me.
And what will happen when every medical expense is 'free' is exactly the same thing - long term coverage will depend upon your resources, and every resource you have will be taken, be it by the government or by the medical/pharma conglomerate.

You will not get to keep your sh*t. You will get to keep your home, if it is modest, and one car is exempt.

C'mon now. You sound pessimistic. If your situation were to have happend, in, say, Canada, do you think it would have been as bad as you described?

[Right_in_Virginia]

Believe me when I say, ALL your savings and ALL your insurance is but a fart in a windstorm if true disability is thrust upon you. All that I had was gone in 3 months... To include regular insurance and catastrophic insurance and over 100k in savings. At 90 days the bills came critically due, and by 120 days I was cast to the wind. And the bills kept accruing for years thereafter.

That's why I know the whole dang show is bullsh*t.

How would you change the whole dang bullshit show?  ... Serious question.

[roamer_1]

C'mon now. You sound pessimistic. If your situation were to have happend, in, say, Canada, do you think it would have been as bad as you described?

Oh hell yeah... In fact, in searching a way forward with my illness, I have met many in Canada who have similar problems, and they are in the very same boat as me.

Look, this is very simple. There cannot be insurance. In order for there to be winners, there have to be losers. Profit requires risk, and risk requires loss.

That is why these socialist wet dreams never work out. It is not financially possible to insure against every risk. The weight of that insuring weighs down the economy till the burden causes it to collapse.

[roamer_1]

How would you change the whole dang bullshit show?  ... Serious question.

Remove insurance. Remove the collaboration between med/pharm/insurance. Remove the vast majority of licensing and restrictions that create the ivory towers of medicine.

In capitalism, if something is extraordinarily high priced, and not subject to market forces, There is something artificially holding that market segment up.

You don't fix that by slathering on another layer, and certainly not with governmental control... All that does is invite more members into the rake that comes off the top.

You fix it by knocking out the props, and destroying the monopolies, whether in form or likeness.

When your average nurse can hang out a shingle, when medicines can be produced or obtained elsewhere, when medical machinery can be ordered from the natural system, watch what happens to the price.

Like any market, supply and demand should govern.

[bigheadfred]

Seriously. I know this bullshit.

Between the medical providers, the insurance companies, big pharma, and the Fed/gov, there is a complete lockdown on the free market system.

It is so monopolized how could you characterize it other than what it is?

I don't have a chance.

Here is something. My wife had a medical cost that was around $1500. We don't have insurance. So we arranged a payment plan. Made one payment before the due date and the hospital turned it over to Medical Recovery Services. A collection agency. She missed one due date and they sued us. My boss gave me a heads up that a person who resembled a process server came to my work place looking for me.

Long story short. process server never showed until 'three' weeks later at my house. Handed me the papers and told me there would be no one I could talk to about it for two more days, a Wednesday. I admit it, I didn't look at the date(s). Just figured I would call them later to work a deal.

When I called it was a shyster lawyers office and they told me a court judgment had been rendered against me for my failure to respond. They claimed I had been served on Dec. 28th, when in fact I was served on Jan. 18th and the judgment was rendered on the 20th. The day the server told me I could call a number then.

The bitch who answered the phone said none of my objections mattered since they had a court judgment and their server called in sick the day she served me.

Now to the nut.

Our resident billionaire employs a lot of people around here. They offer insurance, but in what form, I can't tell you. But people who work there WITH insurance are having their expenses turned over to this collection agency BEFORE their insurance kicks in. So people are bitching why have insurance if it doesn't work and I am being sued for med bills?

The billionaire's son gets wind and has set up a help line. Maybe I can have this judgment rendered null. I'm pretty sure the actual med bill has now been paid and the rest is going to shyster lawyer fees.

I told that lawyer firm I would go after them if I had the money. A $900 bill turned into $3000 with their right to lien, garnish. or flat out steal my shit.

I won't talk about the life-ending crisis of a few years back.

But I know what @roamer_1 knows.

[roamer_1]

But I know what @roamer_1 knows.

@bigheadfred
Yes you do brother, word for word.
Been there done that, and they took my t-shirt.

[bigheadfred]

@bigheadfred
Yes you do brother, word for word.
Been there done that, and they took my t-shirt.

Mine too.

Oddly enough, God gave me another one.

 

[roamer_1]

Mine too.

Oddly enough, God gave me another one.

 

That's right. 

And so we come, finally to the truth: CHARITY.
The current system imposes what should be given.
And still, with that imposition, which really didn't help me much, the charity I received abounded. I got more help, really, from the brethren than anyone else.

And the only organizations that forgave my debt were St. Pats in Missoula, and several private Christian doctors, which btw, can do that no longer, because they are owned lock stock and barrel by the local hospital system.

The fed levered the churches out of the medical system back in the 70's and that was very probably the single most egregious fault that sent us down this spiraling path... Now business controls health and requires the bottom line, where churches made money, but had a penchant for charity, and could pull from giving in the churches...

God requires charity from his people, from their own hands.
American evangelicals combined are the biggest charitable force on the planet. Imagine how much more they could give if government was not taking 50% of every dollar. 

[Cyber Liberty]

Obastardcare put the Coup de Grace on the remaining faith-based Hospitals by trying to force them to do abortions.

[roamer_1]

Obastardcare put the Coup de Grace on the remaining faith-based Hospitals by trying to force them to do abortions.

...And hire Homos... That's right. The very thing that ran all charity in this country but a generation ago is now reviled. Talk about good called evil and evil called good...

[Right_in_Virginia]

Remove insurance. Remove the collaboration between med/pharm/insurance. Remove the vast majority of licensing and restrictions that create the ivory towers of medicine. 

Good plan, no argument with it.

What do you suggest folks who find themselves in circumstances as dire as yours do in the interim?

[roamer_1]

Good plan, no argument with it.

What do you suggest folks who find themselves in circumstances as dire as yours do in the interim?

There are several religious organizations that offer something similar to crowd-funding. My brother went that way when Obamacare came about with a skyrocketing cost that forced him out of insurance for himself, his family and his workers.

The Lutheran Brotherhood is one such, though I don't know if that is the one he is with now... Every month he gets a statement with a list of folks that need help, and he can give freely to each, any, or none. Recently his daughter required some fairly serious work, and he submitted a request. The following month he received three times what he needed, with which he paid his bills, and rolled the remainder back in by giving it to the next folks in line... with a statement showing that to the organization.

And there are a myriad of solutions outside of American medicine. My doc is a Christian Cheyenne medicine man. I am served quite nicely by what he offers, And I have yet to be charged more than 50 bucks for a house call - yes, house call... To include the herbs and treatments he would prescribe.

That ain't quite fair to say, because I fix for him... computers, cars, etc... and treat him right too, But he has done far more for me than Western medicine ever did.

[bigheadfred]

Good plan, no argument with it.

What do you suggest folks who find themselves in circumstances as dire as yours do in the interim?

Write a living will.

[bigheadfred]

Good plan, no argument with it.

What do you suggest folks who find themselves in circumstances as dire as yours do in the interim?

Search for it. Research it.

The GP we use doesn't accept insurance. He charges by the minute. He does have base charge that is $25. I have two long term health issues that he demands monitoring for twice a year. High blood pressure and recurring blood clots. He checks those levels two times a year. I have weird spikes in my blood pressure that we all think is related to lessened liver function.

That lessened liver function is due to Hep C. My life ending crisis. When I first started seeing him he was clueless as to Hep C. As was I. But I agreed to be his lab rat. And he did his part. He put me in touch with a like-minded specialist. This guy had strict stipulations. He would help me only if I agreed to help myself. Dietary restrictions, fitness, an apple a day. That I had to be willing to help myself. And didn't demand any body parts as payment.

Now my GP IS an expert on Hep C. And he has clients that he would have referred elsewhere that he can help. Without sending them to an expensive outside source.

My main point is there are resources out there if you look for them that don't involve the "Church" but it does involve the "Church". There are professional health care providers who care just about that. Being a health care provider.

[Jazzhead]

Oh the medical expenses count, believe you me.
And what will happen when every medical expense is 'free' is exactly the same thing - long term coverage will depend upon your resources, and every resource you have will be taken, be it by the government or by the medical/pharma conglomerate.

You will not get to keep your sh*t. You will get to keep your home, if it is modest, and one car is exempt.

Indeed.  I am sorry you had to live through that physical pain and financial stress.  Glad you made it through to the other side.

More folks choose to first insure themselves against catastrophic medical bills than against the risk of income replacement.   Savings should be the means of insurance for that, IMO.  And, of course, savings include the constant paring down of long term debt.   One lesson I've learned is that one of the best ways to assure your retirement security is to convert that 30-year mortgage to a 15-year one.   When you retire, your house should be a paid off asset.

Insurance is best seen as protection against financial shock. Building a financial cushion of savings (including reduction of debt),  assisted by targeted insurance against shock (medical bills, long term care), is the prudent path to financial security.   

[roamer_1]

Indeed.  I am sorry you had to live through that physical pain and financial stress.  Glad you made it through to the other side.

Thank you for your kind concern... It's no problemo. Somebody always gets left holding the bag, and this time it's my turn in the barrel... It's alright. 

More folks choose to first insure themselves against catastrophic medical bills than against the risk of income replacement.   Savings should be the means of insurance for that, IMO.  And, of course, savings include the constant paring down of long term debt.   One lesson I've learned is that one of the best ways to assure your retirement security is to convert that 30-year mortgage to a 15-year one.   When you retire, your house should be a paid off asset.

Insurance is best seen as protection against financial shock. Building a financial cushion of savings (including reduction of debt),  assisted by targeted insurance against shock (medical bills, long term care), is the prudent path to financial security.   

Yeah, I know. I had all the crap. It all amounted to nothing. When you get behind and can't make the premiums, you are in default. Once in default, the payout ends. In my case, since I was basically wrecked and without income, by 120 days out, all my insurances quit. They handled between 50 and 80 percent of the initial bills, but then I was on my own. Especially since they knew I was wrecked, and too broke and in too much pain to fight it... I just got the axe. Bankruptcy and medicaid, and about 30 grand that the bankruptcy would not cover (taxes mainly).

It hit me mid summer, by Halloween I was out of insurance and stone broke, and struggled hard till Christmas or so... with a wife and four kids. And then SoSec screwed me too - I should have qualified for full social security disability, but because my bookkeeper messed something up, and my taxes were in arrears, I only qualified for medicaid. Again, I could have fought for it, but I was totally wrecked, and my wife was working full time just to make the ends meet... So there it was.

Believe me... If you are counting on them servicing their commitment once you are no longer in a position to fight for it, the system will roll over you in a new york second.

How to go from a comfortable six-figures to bupkis in 120 days. And it can happen just as easy to you.

[Jazzhead]

And it can happen just as easy to you.

Yes, it can.   And you point out a big part of the reason - for most of us,  medical insurance is a function of employment.   If you're too sick to work,  there goes the insurance.

The reform I advocate is to finance by means of general taxation a national program of stop-loss insurance that would protect everyone against catastrophic medical bills (and significantly reduce the cost of medical insurance to address the rest.) .   I've described the details elsewhere.    The situation you describe can happen to anyone,  and planning on an individual basis (in part because of the nature of insurance) can only go so far.   

[roamer_1]

Yes, it can.   And you point out a big part of the reason - for most of us,  medical insurance is a function of employment.   If you're too sick to work,  there goes the insurance.

The reform I advocate is to finance by means of general taxation a national program of stop-loss insurance that would protect everyone against catastrophic medical bills (and significantly reduce the cost of medical insurance to address the rest.) .   I've described the details elsewhere.    The situation you describe can happen to anyone,  and planning on an individual basis (in part because of the nature of insurance) can only go so far.   

Yes, I know. I am here to tell you it will not work that way.
Probably the best insurance against illness and old age is a big, intact family. Second to that, a serviceable voluntary charity (church), Only then should government try to pick up the slack.

[Hoodat]

The reform I advocate is to finance by means of general taxation a national program of stop-loss insurance that would protect everyone against catastrophic medical bills (and significantly reduce the cost of medical insurance to address the rest.) .

You just described Medicaid.

[InHeavenThereIsNoBeer]

You just described Medicaid.

Except for the "significantly reduce the cost" part.