Defying Pentagon, Trump Backs Turkish Operation in Syria Targeting U.S.-backed Kurds

[catfish1957]

As a foreign entity, only a fool would ally with America without expecting that America is going to abandon them sooner or later.

With Tump in power, if I were Taiwan, I'd be shaking in my shoes.

[TomSea]

Who is this "alliance" against @TomSea   And does it overwrite the NATO alliance?

@Right_in_Virginia

"Who is this "alliance" against"

That's pretty easy, ISIS. Are you new to this argument?

"And does it overwrite the NATO alliance?"

No, it doesn't overwrite it.

Now, where is Nato effective? Worldwide? Syria?  Afghanistan? One could make a case, we don't even have any business being in a sovereign country such as Syria but we should not get into legalese, Syria is a sponsor of terrorism and has been designated that since 1979.

So, these are academic questions, in the mean time, we continue to hold prisoners that the SDF caught.

US takes custody of two high-profile Islamic State fighters
https://www.aljazeera.com/news/2019/10/takes-custody-high-profile-islamic-state-fighters-191010014412701.html

So, if your point is that we should reject the SDF, why are we accepting prisoners from them? You are just making an argument of legalese.

[TomSea]

With Tump in power, if I were Taiwan, I'd be shaking in my shoes.

And again, with your view, ISIS might not have ever been knocked off its perch.

[edpc]

YPG are people's protection units, they are not PKK. PKK might have links or they might not.

They are and they do. The previous DNI, in this administration even said so, on pg 21 of his 2018 Worldwide Threat Assessment report.


The Kurdish People’s Protection Unit—the Syrian militia of the Kurdistan Workers’ Party (PKK)—probably will seek some form of autonomy but will face resistance from Russia, Iran, and Turkey.

https://www.dni.gov/files/documents/Newsroom/Testimonies/2018-ATA---Unclassified-SSCI.pdf

[TomSea]

Report
NATO, the UN, and the Use of Force
Ivo H. Daalder
Monday, March 1, 1999

PRÉCIS

The debate surrounding NATO’s evolution from a collective defense alliance to an organization primarily concerned with managing crises centers around three questions:

1. Under what circumstances should NATO threaten use of force? The traditional criterion—self-defense against armed attack on any member’s home territory (Article 5 of the North Atlantic Treaty)—is too narrow. There is no doubt that NATO could embark on missions using force, if its members so desired, to confront crises or threats that do not directly affect allied territory but that may have implications for important national or humanitarian interests, (e.g., confronting arms proliferation or genocide)—though to what extent remains disputed within the alliance. The possibility for joint military action in a non-Article 5 context should not be conditioned on unanimous consent. An alliance that provides rapid and effective responses to crises in and outside allied territory, even if action is taken by a subset of allies, is preferable to one that conditions action on potentially unattainable unanimous support.

Read more at: https://www.brookings.edu/research/nato-the-un-and-the-use-of-force/

I'd be careful in saying what is legal, what is not in all of this.... we are just talking about the letter of the law.

I'm a supporter of Nato, they helped us in Afghanistan. Libya is another topic where apparently, they were active.

[TomSea]

They are and they do. The previous DNI, in this administration even said so, on pg 21 of his 2018 Worldwide Threat Assessment report.


The Kurdish People’s Protection Unit—the Syrian militia of the Kurdistan Workers’ Party (PKK)—probably will seek some form of autonomy but will face resistance from Russia, Iran, and Turkey.

https://www.dni.gov/files/documents/Newsroom/Testimonies/2018-ATA---Unclassified-SSCI.pdf

So where does this leave us? That instead, American soldiers should have done the fighting the SDF has done? Or to let ISIS grow bigger and bigger because we would probably not fight that way, we did not have the will? We are sort of sabotaging our own fight.

So we need this perfect organization, why are we still accepting prisoners from them?

And this tie, that they are protection units for the government.   The mail service is aligned with the US government, for whatever that means.

[catfish1957]

And again, with your view, ISIS might not have ever been knocked off its perch.

Stop lying.  Find one post of mine that I ever backed down support on the WOT....   I dare you.

And while you are at it, stop your hyprocricy.  This site will never forget your  2016 comment where you said those not supporting Trump were the same as ISIS and alQaeda.

[dancer]

SMH.  Good grief, people.  Get a grip.  Those "troops" pulling out consists of 25 people!  25!  Our mid-East meddling has cost taxpayers $8 TRILLION dollars, countless LIVES and countless WOUNDED WARRIORS!

Not all KURDS are good people.  Actually it's a small group that are.  The rest are just as bad as the people they are fighting.  Wake up.  The only people wanting us to continue are profitting from the war machine, either directly or in bribes.

[edpc]

So where does this leave us?

Hopefully, a little bit more informed about with whom we're dealing. Does that mean we should just cut and run on them? No, but alliances in that region often make strange bedfellows. They don't always share our long-term interests or values.

[Formerly Once-Ler]

Name anything Trump has stood firm on.

@DB
You've stumped me, but I didn't try long.

[Formerly Once-Ler]

The only way to stop this sh!t is to kill every Moslem out there.

There are 1.8 billion Muslims in the world.  That's about 50,000 per day for 100 years.  I'm busy for the next 100 years.  You'd best get started.

[Formerly Once-Ler]

Yeah, but isolationist seems so much sexier, don’t you think? Rhetorical question. 

Midwest isolationist  heck yeah!
Western Mormon isolationist are too plain for my tastes 

[txradioguy]

SMH.  Good grief, people.  Get a grip.  Those "troops" pulling out consists of 25 people!  25!  Our mid-East meddling has cost taxpayers $8 TRILLION dollars, countless LIVES and countless WOUNDED WARRIORS!

Not all KURDS are good people.  Actually it's a small group that are.  The rest are just as bad as the people they are fighting.  Wake up.  The only people wanting us to continue are profitting from the war machine, either directly or in bribes.

 

[Formerly Once-Ler]

@txradioguy
Are you saying you think it's worth 8 TRILLION dollars and everyone who was killed or wounded in war, for those 25 people???

I'm just kidding.
I have enjoyed your informative posts through this thread.  I learned more than I ever wanted to about Kurds.
Shout out to @TomSea who also added a lot to this discussion.  :cheers:

[Right_in_Virginia]

@Right_in_Virginia

"Who is this "alliance" against"

That's pretty easy, ISIS. Are you new to this argument?

"And does it overwrite the NATO alliance?"

No, it doesn't overwrite it.   

Okay.  So your "alliance" defines an alliance of convenience ... one to fight ISIS.  And when this fight is done, so are we. 

Period.

Thanks for clarifying @TomSea

[bigheadfred]

There are 1.8 billion Muslims in the world.  That's about 50,000 per day for 100 years.  I'm busy for the next 100 years.  You'd best get started.

Give me the nuclear football and I will.

[Formerly Once-Ler]

Give me the nuclear football and I will.

Before I do that can you tell me if there will be any collateral damage to non-muslims? 

I'm just kidding.  You seem like a very stable genius.    Your brand new nuclear football is on the way.  Expect 4-6 weeks for packing and shipping.

[bigheadfred]

Before I do that can you tell me if there will be any collateral damage to non-muslims? 

I'm just kidding.  You seem like a very stable genius.    Your brand new nuclear football is on the way.  Expect 4-6 weeks for packing and shipping.

I'll merely start with mecca. Then we'll see.

[libertybele]

Name anything Trump has stood firm on.

The border is still being invaded. He signed laws that further entrenched that situation.

Obamacare is still the law of the land.

Extreme deficit spending is as bad as it has ever been.

1st and 2nd (and other) amendment freedoms are slipping away.

Very true.  There is no denying any of what you have stated. Yes, back pedaling has absolutely been the norm for Trump.  Sad.

[Victoria33]

Very true.  There is no denying any of what you have stated. Yes, back pedaling has absolutely been the norm for Trump.  Sad.

@libertybele

Just heard this morning, 100 Kurds killed so far.

[libertybele]

@libertybele

Just heard this morning, 100 Kurds killed so far.

Sad indeed.  I've also read that the Kurds are holding their positions by the ISIS prisoners. 

On a positive, I heard on Beck yesterday that they still have an ongoing operation (The Nazarene) to rescue Christians over in the ME to keep them from being persecuted and/or murdered.

[txradioguy]

@txradioguy
Are you saying you think it's worth 8 TRILLION dollars and everyone who was killed or wounded in war, for those 25 people???

I'm just kidding.
I have enjoyed your informative posts through this thread.  I learned more than I ever wanted to about Kurds.
Shout out to @TomSea who also added a lot to this discussion.  :cheers:

@Once-Ler thanks.  I've been lucky enough to have been a few places that gives me some knowledge on this that a lot of people don't have and this situation has allowed me to use what I've learned over the years.j

[DCPatriot]

Sad indeed.  I've also read that the Kurds are holding their positions by the ISIS prisoners. 

On a positive, I heard on Beck yesterday that they still have an ongoing operation (The Nazarene) to rescue Christians over in the ME to keep them from being persecuted and/or murdered.

I'm wondering....if they were truly our FRiends and allies with a history, why haven't the ISIS prisoners been executed?

These are the animals that raped and butchered Yazidi girls and burned/drowned them in wooden cages.

Hat tip to the Kurds for using them as human shields.   Not letting a crisis go to waste.

[txradioguy]

I'm wondering....if they were truly our FRiends and allies with a history, why haven't the ISIS prisoners been executed?

These are the animals that raped and butchered Yazidi girls and burned/drowned them in wooden cages.

Hat tip to the Kurds for using them as human shields.   Not letting a crisis go to waste.

They are also great sources of Intel that the Kurds can extract from them in ways we can't.

Not to mention the fact you'd only incite the a big chunk of the Muslim world agaisnt the Kurds and us for that matter...if we just started wholesale executions of the captured ISIS fighters.

[Chosen Daughter]

World
Syria Update: Turkey Is Blowing the Hell Out of It and the Russians Are Cheering
EsquireOctober 9, 2019, 10:25 AM PDT

Excerpt:

Everything you knew was going to happen is happening in northern Syria. Everything the president* should have known was going to happen—or, at the very least, vaguely care about happening, had he a shred of either intellect or humanity—is happening. Turkey is blowing the hell out of northern Syria. The Russians are cheering. The Iranians are thrilled. And the Kurds, sold out by another American president, are running for cover.

https://currently.att.yahoo.com/att/syria-turkey-blowing-hell-russians-172000541.html

As Trump disavows Kurds over WW2, Republican anger grows

By Nicole Gaouette, CNN 4 hrs ago

'Sickening'
"News from Syria is sickening," Rep. Liz Cheney of Wyoming, the third-ranking Republican in the House, tweeted Wednesday, echoing lawmakers across the spectrum. "Turkish troops preparing to invade Syria from the north, Russian-backed forces from the south, ISIS fighters attacking Raqqa. Impossible to understand why @realDonaldTrump is leaving America's allies to be slaughtered and enabling the return of ISIS."

Florida Republican Sen. Marco Rubio noted that "at request of this administration the Kurds served as the primary ground fighters against ISIS in Syria so U.S. troops wouldn't have to." Then, he charged, the administration "cut deal with Erdogan allowing him to wipe them out. Damage to our reputation & national interest will be extraordinary & long lasting."

Republican Sen. Lindsey Graham of South Carolina and Democratic Sen. Chris Van Hollen of Maryland on Wednesday announced a framework to place immediate sanctions on senior Turkish government officials, ban all US military business and military transactions with Turkey, and immediately activate 2017 sanctions on the country until Ankara stops its operations against the Kurds.

https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/politics/as-trump-disavows-kurds-over-ww2-republican-anger-grows/ar-AAIwWdR?ocid=spartanntp

And the idiot is saying he doesn't care if ISIS escapes because they are going to escape to Europe.  Mr. President we live in a Global world.

And what has Pence to say about this?  Right now I think that the Democrats couldn't get rid of Trump soon enough.  The damage from just this one yuuuuuge policy mistake will be lasting for the entire world.  Trump wonders why his rating are going down?  Why people support impeachment?  Because he has always been a one man crew.  He said it in his campaign.  That he would listen to the Generals but he would make the decisions.  And that is why so many have been fired.  If they have different idea's from Trump they are out.  Bolton was the last thread holding this administration together.