Author Topic: What’s in a Good Red Flag Law  (Read 2672 times)

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Offline roamer_1

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Re: What’s in a Good Red Flag Law
« Reply #25 on: October 03, 2019, 08:20:45 pm »
I advocate red flag laws with robust due process protections.

There is no such thing.
If there as been no crime, there can be no indictment, and hence NO DUE PROCESS.

Offline truth_seeker

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Re: What’s in a Good Red Flag Law
« Reply #26 on: October 03, 2019, 08:40:05 pm »
I think the key to preventing either is to focus on the person, not so much the firearms. If someone is showing signs of being suicidal or homicidal, the person is what needs to be confined and helped, the guns would be moot.

The USA today, lacks both the common sense, and the survival instict to confine people.

In CA a person can be confined for 72 hours, to be evaluated as a "danger to self or others."

To minimize the number, few truly dangerous people, will remain confined.

It is sort of an "experiment," to find the limit when somebody gets hurt.
"God must love the common man, he made so many of them.�  Abe Lincoln

Offline Smokin Joe

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Re: What’s in a Good Red Flag Law
« Reply #27 on: October 04, 2019, 09:36:21 am »
You do the best you can.  A gun is an extraordinarily convenient and efficient killing machine.   Statistics show both its ubiquity and lethality with respect to suicides.   

It is bogus to suggest that because you cannot solve every problems you shouldn't try to solve one.   
All of those suicides, homicides, and mass killings have one thing in common. On the end of whatever is used to perpetrate them, from a burner phone setting off a bomb to a slasher attack in the subway, to some jerk shooting up a  concert, or a drive by at a block party, each one of those incidents or events has a person who is NOT normal attacking others, or themselves.

In the meantime, there are people using similar devices all around the world with neither attempt nor intent to harm others, and without doing so. The devices are not the problem, counselor, though banning everything might seem like an easy fix.
 Cain smote Abel with a rock. Are you going to ban rocks? (Lay off, d@mnit, I'm a pro!)

Instead of turning the world into a padded cell, how about we gather those in need of help and put them in an environment where they can get that?-- while the rest of humanity goes on living, with their stuff intact.
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Offline Jazzhead

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Re: What’s in a Good Red Flag Law
« Reply #28 on: October 04, 2019, 12:29:41 pm »
In the meantime, there are people using similar devices all around the world with neither attempt nor intent to harm others, and without doing so. The devices are not the problem, counselor, though banning everything might seem like an easy fix.
 

That's a dishonest straw man.   I have never suggested banning all guns ("banning everything").   Indeed, I have strenuously urged that Congress take action to codify Heller, knowing full well that the Constitutional right you claim hangs by the thread of a 5 -4 SCOTUS majority. 

And it is also a dishonest slippery slope argument to suggest that a law aimed narrowly at denying deadly implements to persons adjudged following due process of being a danger to themselves or others is a prelude to "banning everything".    Debate the merits of the needed due process protections, but don't give me this crap that a well-drafted red flag law is going to take your precious guns away.   
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Offline txradioguy

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Re: What’s in a Good Red Flag Law
« Reply #29 on: October 04, 2019, 02:34:19 pm »
Quote
knowing full well that the Constitutional right you claim hangs by the thread of a 5 -4 SCOTUS majority.

Speaking of dishonest.


Quote
And it is also a dishonest slippery slope argument to suggest that a law aimed narrowly at denying deadly implements to persons adjudged following due process of being a danger to themselves or others is a prelude to "banning everything".

"There are none so blind as those who will not see." ~ John Heywood
« Last Edit: October 04, 2019, 02:36:00 pm by txradioguy »
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Offline Cyber Liberty

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Re: What’s in a Good Red Flag Law
« Reply #30 on: October 04, 2019, 03:29:48 pm »
.... don't give me this crap that a well-drafted red flag law is going to take your precious guns away.   

You got that right, but not for the reason you think.
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Offline Smokin Joe

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Re: What’s in a Good Red Flag Law
« Reply #31 on: October 05, 2019, 01:17:31 am »
That's a dishonest straw man.   I have never suggested banning all guns ("banning everything").   Indeed, I have strenuously urged that Congress take action to codify Heller, knowing full well that the Constitutional right you claim hangs by the thread of a 5 -4 SCOTUS majority. 

And it is also a dishonest slippery slope argument to suggest that a law aimed narrowly at denying deadly implements to persons adjudged following due process of being a danger to themselves or others is a prelude to "banning everything".    Debate the merits of the needed due process protections, but don't give me this crap that a well-drafted red flag law is going to take your precious guns away.   
Frankly, I don't care what the SCOTUS says. The Second didn't grant the RKBA, it told the Government to keep its power hungry meathooks off it. The Right exists, and I aim to keep my property as well. Send an Army to take that property, and the meaning of the predicate clause is made clear: A well regulated (controlled) Militia (army) being necessary to the security of a Free State....   That Army, to paraphrase Federalist 46, is controlled by the overwhelming number of arms in the hands of The People, as the Founders intended...

Now, at what point would my understanding of the History and intent of the Second Amendment make me a "threat", even though I have never advocated firing a shot in anger?  Considering that the people who would own us, lock, stock, and barrel, who would control every minute aspect of our lives, essentially making us all slaves of the State, might consider arms in the hands of any patriotic American to be "threatening", eventually, they would ban all arms, in any hands but their own.

Some doors to totalitarianism are best left closed. People have already died over this issue.
« Last Edit: October 05, 2019, 01:21:48 am by Smokin Joe »
How God must weep at humans' folly! Stand fast! God knows what he is doing!
Seventeen Techniques for Truth Suppression

Of all tyrannies, a tyranny sincerely exercised for the good of its victims may be the most oppressive. It would be better to live under robber barons than under omnipotent moral busybodies. The robber baron's cruelty may sometimes sleep, his cupidity may at some point be satiated; but those who torment us for our own good will torment us without end for they do so with the approval of their own conscience.

C S Lewis

Offline Sighlass

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Re: What’s in a Good Red Flag Law
« Reply #32 on: October 05, 2019, 01:42:03 am »
I listened to a discussion between Alan Keyes and Roy Moore today on this subject (red flag laws)...

I think about 18 or so minutes into the discussion (yep 18 minute mark)... Roy and Alan were both a pleasure to listen to talking about this... and right on subject about how dangerous this is. They talked about how the divisions of government had overstepped their bounds (especially Judicial). Like I said, two good folks I admire chewing the fat on the subject.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Mlu0e9ySN5A&feature=youtu.be&fbclid=IwAR2Fv4j1KWqYeAJidTU520Ja7z_pgo_USFl2IfYoq2WSAMD9oUvo7XsFAmE

« Last Edit: October 05, 2019, 01:44:39 am by Sighlass »
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