Author Topic: Previous ejection was Justin time  (Read 862 times)

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Offline EasyAce

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Previous ejection was Justin time
« on: September 01, 2019, 11:00:34 pm »
Among other things, Verlander's the only man to throw a no-no one start after being tossed. And the sixth to throw three or more.
By Yours Truly


Justin Verlander celebrates after pitching
his third career no-hitter Sunday.


If anyone else has thrown a no-hitter in their first outing after one during which he was ejected, I have no record of it. So it’s entirely possible that, in that sense, Justin Verlander’s Sunday afternoon special in Toronto’s Rogers Centre was unprecedented.

Can you just picture some pitcher somewhere arguing with an ump and answering, if and when the ump in question asks why he’s trying to get himself an early trip to the clubhouse, “Nothing personal, but I’d kinda like to throw a no-hitter in my next start, too.”

Or some umpire answering when a pitcher asks why the unexpected or undeserved ho-heave, “Relax, kid, I’m doing you a favour, now you got a good chance of throwing a no-hitter your next time out.”

That assumed those pitchers have anything resembling Verlander’s ability and intelligence. And you can line those who do up on one surfboard. With a little room to spare.

If anyone else’s no-hitter was consummated by an obscure rookie third baseman hitting a two-run homer in the top of the ninth for the game’s only score, then throwing out a far less obscure rookie for the game’s final out, I’m also unaware of it as I write. So Verlander better not have been kidding when he said Abraham Toro was due for a big reward.

Toro ought to get at least a new car (Verlander can afford to buy a dealership, after all, we think) for going above and beyond to make Verlander only the sixth man in Show history to throw at least three no-hitters. Maybe from a Canadian dealership, since Verlander’s the first to throw more than one no-no in the same visitors’ park.

The company he joins? Four Hall of Famers (Bob Feller, Cy Young, Sandy Koufax, Nolan Ryan) and a nineteenth-century deadballer. (Larry Corcoran.)

But I’m pretty sure none of Corcoran’s, Young’s, Feller’s, Koufax’s, or Ryan’s no-hitters featured having to dispatch three sons of former major leaguers (Bo Bichette, Cavan Biggo, and Vladimir Guerrero, Jr.), including two sons of Hall of Famers (Biggio, Guerrero), at the very top of the enemy batting order.

Verlander did. He struck Bichette and Biggio out twice, walked Biggio once, and rid himself of Guerrero on a pair of ground outs to third base and a foul pop to first.

Joining the deadballer may be the most appropriate for Verlander considering he did his Sunday work with a fastball that barely reached 90 mph if at all but a curve ball with more bite than a piranha in danger of missing its three squares on the day. He worked up and down the zone like an elevator operator, back and forth like a vacuum cleaner, and the only thing he had to worry about was whether the American League West-leading Astros would ever get a run on the board for him before his day was finished.

The Blue Jays went to a bullpen game beginning with former Met Wilmer Font, acquired in the Marcus Stroman trade, striking out three with one hit in two innings. Then two more Jays bulls, Sam Gaviglio and Zack Godley, worked three runless innings each, Gaviglio working three perfect with three punchouts and Godley shaking away two Astro hits while punching out two, plunking one, and surviving first and third in the seventh.

Then the Jays turned it over to Ken Giles, the closer and former Astro, having a renaissance season until he hit the injured list for a brief spell around the trade deadline, but who took a staggering 1.67 ERA into Sunday’s contest. And this was a day after he struck out the side to end a 6-4 Blue Jays win.

But Astros third baseman Alex Bregman opened Sunday’s top of the ninth with a double dunked into shallow right field. Giles flicked it off more or less with a three-pitch, swinging strikeout on the Astros’s explosive rookie outfielder/DH Yordan Alvarez, followed by a third-pitch fly out to center by Astros first baseman Aledmys Diaz.

Then came Toro, the switch hitter batting left.. Then came two Giles sliders, the first fouled off and the second ball one down and inside. Then came a four-seam fastball right down the pipe. And there it went the other way into the left field seats. Leaving Verlander to finish what he started, sandwiching a nasty swinging fourteenth strikeout between a pair of ground outs.

And leaving him to history.

“I can’t put it into words,” said the righthander who had four previous shots at a third no-hitter broken up in 2011, 2012, 2015, and last year. “I’ve come so close to the third one so many times.”

Maybe he should have been ejected in the starts immediately preceding those bids, too.
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Offline GrouchoTex

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Re: Previous ejection was Justin time
« Reply #1 on: September 03, 2019, 05:03:50 pm »
It was a memorable event to watch.
2nd Astros no-hitter in, what, 4 weeks?
Toro wasn't supposed to start the game.
Gurriel was scratched right before game time, having a contusion on his elbow, form getting hit by a pitch the night before.

Joining the deadballer may be the most appropriate for Verlander considering he did his Sunday work with a fastball that barely reached 90 mph if at all

I'm not so sure about that, unless the radar gun at Rogers stadium was way off.
92 mph early on against Bichette in the 1st inning and 96 against him again in the 9th.
It seems most of the fastballs they showed us were being measured at the low to mid nineties range.


Offline EasyAce

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Re: Previous ejection was Justin time
« Reply #2 on: September 03, 2019, 06:19:52 pm »
Joining the deadballer may be the most appropriate for Verlander considering he did his Sunday work with a fastball that barely reached 90 mph if at all

I'm not so sure about that, unless the radar gun at Rogers stadium was way off.
92 mph early on against Bichette in the 1st inning and 96 against him again in the 9th.
It seems most of the fastballs they showed us were being measured at the low to mid nineties range.
He didn't really have the fastball he used to have anymore. But it was almost a non-issue when you think that he's so much more a pitcher the last few years.

I notice a lot of pure power pitchers are leaning a little more away from the pure power fastballs and mixing up a lot more off-speed breakers. Noah Syndergaard of the Mets and Gerrit Cole of the Astros are doing it with a lot more effectiveness that way. And when another Met pitcher, Steven Matz, goes predominantly to his breaking balls and what looks to be the potential for a wipeout changeup, he's pitching to his potential and then some. Max Scherzer and Jacob deGrom already had a good mix of off-speed breakers. It's good to see that coming back more into play.



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Offline GrouchoTex

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Re: Previous ejection was Justin time
« Reply #3 on: September 03, 2019, 06:32:29 pm »
He didn't really have the fastball he used to have anymore. But it was almost a non-issue when you think that he's so much more a pitcher the last few years.

I notice a lot of pure power pitchers are leaning a little more away from the pure power fastballs and mixing up a lot more off-speed breakers. Noah Syndergaard of the Mets and Gerrit Cole of the Astros are doing it with a lot more effectiveness that way. And when another Met pitcher, Steven Matz, goes predominantly to his breaking balls and what looks to be the potential for a wipeout changeup, he's pitching to his potential and then some. Max Scherzer and Jacob deGrom already had a good mix of off-speed breakers. It's good to see that coming back more into play.

True.
Verlander has incorporated more off-speed stuff, and he will still throw the challenge fastball.
That challenge has been met 30+ times this season, but his ERA and W/L record speak for themselves.

The story I've heard in regards to Cole and Wade Miley and some other pitchers outside and around the league was that they dropped the sinker/split finger.
Change ups and curves and sliders okay, but sinkers seem gone.
I think it was the launch angle issue, along with if the things don't actually drop out like a curve or a change up can, it's dangerous if a barrel of the bat runs into it.
I believe a lot of that is why we are seeing more of a "fastball up/ breaking ball down/north-south" pitching today, along with the ol' east/west philosophy.

Offline EasyAce

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Re: Previous ejection was Justin time
« Reply #4 on: September 03, 2019, 06:50:15 pm »
The story I've heard in regards to Cole and Wade Miley and some other pitchers outside and around the league was that they dropped the sinker/split finger.
Change ups and curves and sliders okay, but sinkers seem gone.
I think it was the launch angle issue, along with if the things don't actually drop out like a curve or a change up can, it's dangerous if a barrel of the bat runs into it.
I believe a lot of that is why we are seeing more of a "fastball up/ breaking ball down/north-south" pitching today, along with the ol' east/west philosophy.
The sinker isn't disappearing as fast as you might think. It's a question of who's actually getting real sink on the ball and throwing it to the lower corners. Throw one that doesn't sink and arrives more in the middle and it's a dead fish taking a long flight.

And a lot of the fastballers are throwing more to the corners at both levels of the zone. They're still throwing them up, but they're not afraid to throw it to the low corners especially when they're trying for ground outs.


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Online Bigun

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Re: Previous ejection was Justin time
« Reply #5 on: September 03, 2019, 06:57:02 pm »
But for one missed call in the first inning it would have been a perfect game.  Just for the record.
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Offline EasyAce

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Re: Previous ejection was Justin time
« Reply #6 on: September 03, 2019, 07:09:12 pm »
But for one missed call in the first inning it would have been a perfect game.  Just for the record.
Well, if you'll pardon the expression, nobody's perfect.

Though Verlander has a shot now at doing what only Koufax ever did---pitch a fourth no-hitter that proved practise makes perfect.


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Offline GrouchoTex

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Re: Previous ejection was Justin time
« Reply #7 on: September 03, 2019, 08:35:21 pm »
The sinker isn't disappearing as fast as you might think. It's a question of who's actually getting real sink on the ball and throwing it to the lower corners. Throw one that doesn't sink and arrives more in the middle and it's a dead fish taking a long flight.

And a lot of the fastballers are throwing more to the corners at both levels of the zone. They're still throwing them up, but they're not afraid to throw it to the low corners especially when they're trying for ground outs.

The sinker isn't disappearing as fast as you might think. It's a question of who's actually getting real sink on the ball and throwing it to the lower corners. Throw one that doesn't sink and arrives more in the middle and it's a dead fish taking a long flight.


Right, which it what I am trying to get at, but I'm not very good at this communication thing as I'd like to be.........

You might as well throw a 4 seamer in the low corners, rather than taking the chance that the split finger may not break.
That makes more sense, and several pitchers have abandoned the sinker in place of doing this, which They're still throwing them up, but they're not afraid to throw it to the low corners especially when they're trying for ground outs.
« Last Edit: September 03, 2019, 08:39:14 pm by GrouchoTex »

Offline EasyAce

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Re: Previous ejection was Justin time
« Reply #8 on: September 03, 2019, 08:38:24 pm »
The sinker isn't disappearing as fast as you might think. It's a question of who's actually getting real sink on the ball and throwing it to the lower corners. Throw one that doesn't sink and arrives more in the middle and it's a dead fish taking a long flight.


Right, which it what I am trying to get at, but I'm not very good at this communication thing as I'd like to be.........

You might as well throw a 4 seamer in the low corners, rather than taking the chance that the split finger may not break.
That make more sense, and several pitchers have abandoned the sinker in place of doing this, which They're still throwing them up, but they're not afraid to throw it to the low corners especially when they're trying for ground outs.

I still remember the late Al Jackson quoting Casey Stengel from the dugout, while Jackson was on the mound with a man on second and the other guys tempted to bunt: Here's what I would do. I would throw him a little slider and let him hit it that way, then I'd throw his ass out at third. And voila! In all his time as a Met, Al Jackson never allowed any runner on second to be sacrificed successfully to third. (Jackson being a lefthander had a slight advantage, too, fielding balls hit to the third base side.)


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Online AllThatJazzZ

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Re: Previous ejection was Justin time
« Reply #9 on: September 11, 2019, 06:24:08 pm »
Among other things, Verlander's the only man to throw a no-no one start after being tossed. And the sixth to throw three or more.
By Yours Truly


Justin Verlander celebrates after pitching
his third career no-hitter Sunday.


If anyone else has thrown a no-hitter in their first outing after one during which he was ejected, I have no record of it. So it’s entirely possible that, in that sense, Justin Verlander’s Sunday afternoon special in Toronto’s Rogers Centre was unprecedented....

A most enjoyable read, made even more enjoyable by that signature @EasyAce title. If I could contribute one extra element, I'd add to the info @GrouchoTex provided regarding Yuli's being pulled which afforded that obscure rookie Canadian third baseman the opportunity to contribute both offensively and defensively. Hollywood couldn't write a better script.

I never thought I'd see a no-hitter. Not only was I blessed to see one, I'm thankful it was a historic one ... by my beloved Astros! That the game was scoreless through 8 innings was discouraging. I'm not embarrassed to say that I got a bit lightheaded after Bregman and Toro scored in the top of the 9th and Verlander came back in to finish what he started. I watched it again the next day and got almost as excited. Duh! I knew the ending and still got emotional. :silly:


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Offline EasyAce

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Re: Previous ejection was Justin time
« Reply #10 on: September 11, 2019, 06:55:35 pm »
I never thought I'd see a no-hitter. Not only was I blessed to see one, I'm thankful it was a historic one ... by my beloved Astros!
@AllThatJazzZ
I knew that feeling when I watched the Angels throw that combined no-hitter at the Mariners earlier this year. Especially given the emotional circumstance of it being their first home game following Tyler Skaggs's death.


"The question of who is right is a small one, indeed, beside the question of what is right."---Albert Jay Nock.

Fake news---news you don't like or don't want to hear.