CHRISTIANS WHO HATE TRUMP

[Sanguine]

Get what?  Repeat what?  I'm pretty bright.  I read extremely well, and I've responded to what you've said to me.

You asked me to open my mind and heart.  What did you mean by it?

(At the risk of a short term hijack of the thread, for the future of our good (I thought) relationship, please tell me why you told me to open my mind and heart just because I won't change standards that we once all had).

Nope.  Not exposing my jugular to you again.

[Bigun]

This thread tells us exactly how!  We will argue minutiae, cast stones at the character of Trump and anyone who defends him, and argue over Bible verses and their proper interpretation and if anyone doesn't believe our fundamental and fairly unique intrepretation, they're WRONG.

By the way, I believe the correct number is 1001.*

*Angels who can dance on the head of a pin.

Well said @Sanguine but the correct number is 2351.  *

[musiclady]

Nope.  Not exposing my jugular to you again.

Wow.  Just wow.   

I haven't got any idea why you have been so hurt by any of my words.  None.

But I will avoid future discussions with you on sensitive subjects. (If I can figure out what they are). 

[Sanguine]

Well said @Sanguine but the correct number is 2351.  *

 

[skeeter]

This thread tells us exactly how!  We will argue minutiae, cast stones at the character of Trump and anyone who defends him, and argue over Bible verses and their proper interpretation and if anyone doesn't believe our fundamental and fairly unique intrepretation, they're WRONG.

By the way, I believe the correct number is 1001.*

*Angels who can dance on the head of a pin.

There are plenty of passages that deal with this common tendency, for those open minded enough to attempt to understand them.

[musiclady]

There are plenty of passages that deal with this common tendency, for those open minded enough to attempt to understand them.

The verse used upthread to excuse immoral behavior was misinterpreted.  It's not a matter of being "open minded."  It's a matter of studying and understanding what is really being said in that verse.

And it is not that we shouldn't expect integrity in a President.

[Bigun]

The verse used upthread to excuse immoral behavior was misinterpreted.  It's not a matter of being "open minded."  It's a matter of studying and understanding what is really being said in that verse.

EXACTLY right!

And it is not that we shouldn't expect integrity in a President.

And I can't find where anyone ever said it was.

[TomSea]

At the same time,

Anyone who is a big Bushie and that's said with total respect, can toss out the morality issue, burn pits, mismanaged war.

And anyone who is calling themselves a Christian but ignores pro-life acts, salvaging the Obama/Bush mess in Iraq again, doesn't score high on the morality scale with me.

The ISIS caliphate busted thanks to an imperfect but for the most part, competent handling of that crisis by the administration.

Those speaking against Trump, means this doesn't happen or happen as quick as it did.

I think God also looks at what we do, what we don't do.

I think this has been the best vote of my life,

You don't like seeing ISIS, a terror that at least, in philosophy is as bad as the Nazis, they just didn't control as much ground.

We'd be putting up with this, possibly hot tensions from North Korea still, we wouldn't be recognizing Jerusalem as the capital of Israel or at least, physically moving our embassy there, Iran might be going unchecked in their ambitions in the Middle East.

Gag me if Never-Trumpers are telling me what is moral. Your way would see more people killed, that's pretty simple. I'm supporting the President in his endeavors when I see it as good.

We saved lives, you didn't. Don't tell me what is moral.

[skeeter]

And it is not that we shouldn't expect integrity in a President.

As Tomsea points out, this president has saved babies.

I can't think of anything that would please God more.

[TomSea]

I have a friend. While I don't want to get deeply into the Bible, I believe he always points to the Persian King Cyrus in Ezra and other books of the Bible. He was a Pagan but apparently, did a whole lot of good. So it goes.

The Trump admin. has done a number of great things, they would not have happened or would have been delayed or the like, had he not been elected.

If we are getting into theology, Jesus tells us to trust as well and certainly, would not tell us to vote for the Dems.

Trump salvaged the Iraqi situation with much harm and hurt done. Christians were there for 2000 years and under Bush and Obama, facing extinction, your definition of morality is a joke then.  Bushies should be content vs. that catastrophe Obama made of it.

Yes, we can find issues with the budget and so on. People aren't perfect.

Fewer terror attacks on the West, that's not all Trump but I think some is.

Some discussion of King Cyrus here: https://www.gotquestions.org/Cyrus-Bible.html

[Sanguine]

Not banging on you particularly Sang - You just happened to be the last post in the line...
I have been gone for most of this debate... But I will stand with @musiclady and with @Sighlass - And no there is not 'something' in what you are saying. By the numbers.

.....

...To the point that you cannot judge anything or anyone at all.
I will NOT adhere to such an interpretation. Certainly not to excuse the likes of Tump.

@roamer_1 I appreciate your comments and think that you are coming from a place of humility and desire to understand, even if the answer is not what you want it to be.  We disagree on this issue, not completely, but some.

[TomSea]

A load of Americans, Brits, Australians, others, have gone to fight against ISIS, they joined the Kurds, that whole situation may not, as General Mattis clearly shows, may not have ever come about if the USA did not intervene in the first place, Obama threw gas on the fire but it was also developing well before that ISIS was just the cherry on top. Some made the ultimate sacrifice. It bothered them so much, it bothers many of us.

Volunteers not US military:

2 Americans killed fighting ISIS near Raqqa
July 12, 2017 / 7:42 AM / CBS News
https://www.cbsnews.com/news/american-robert-grodt-nicholas-warden-killed-fighting-isis-kurdish-ypg-raqqa/

Never Trumpers like Max Boot probably don't recognize this, we would possibly have the same hellish situation going on. Yes, this article is from July 2017 after Trump came into office. These people may well have been there before he was inaugurated.  In fact, the article states the first American volunteer to fight against ISIS that died was in 2015 so the wheel was in motion.

So, some of us may scoff at the NTs because actually,  you might be taking away hard victories earned if we didn't have this "surprise" administration in there.

Yet, GWB has palled around with Obama. Ridiculous.

Some NT Christians really might be selfish in this.  Christian because that seems to be the term used. I'm not sure about it myself nor conservative.

[musiclady]

Nope.  Not exposing my jugular to you again.

@Sanguine - I have been very much bothered by your words, and what I did to cause such a reaction in you.

I looked back over what I said, and I think I see what hurt you so much, and I deeply apologize for it.

I didn't think I was going for your "jugular" any more than I thought you were with your words to me (which is not at all), but I clearly hurt you with what I said.

I am sorry.  Please forgive me.

[musiclady]

As Tomsea points out, this president has saved babies.

I can't think of anything that would please God more.

And I've never said he hasn't done anything good.  Ever.

But back to the article.  If I don't like Trump, I am a sinner. 

That's bogus, and deeply unfair.

[musiclady]

EXACTLY right!


And I can't find where anyone ever said it was.

Oh......... LOTS of people, including Christian "leaders" have said that.  It simply does not matter to them who Trump is.  They have hitched their political wagons to him and are going along for a ride.

But at what cost?

[Sanguine]

@Sanguine - I have been very much bothered by your words, and what I did to cause such a reaction in you.

I looked back over what I said, and I think I see what hurt you so much, and I deeply apologize for it.

I didn't think I was going for your "jugular" any more than I thought you were with your words to me (which is not at all), but I clearly hurt you with what I said.

I am sorry.  Please forgive me.

@musiclady, don't worry about hurting me; I'm much tougher than that. 

I live my life trying to be as truthful as I possibly can as a normal human being.  In fact, I think that's the only way to have a truly Godly life.  The Word = Truth.  Which can be very painful at times, but less so as we get more practice in doing it.

I invited you to metaphorically put on my glasses and see a little further than you might be able to without them.  I don't know if you find that scary, or distasteful, or whatever, and I'm not going to speculate.  That is your business, not mine.

I appreciate the apology and accept it and am happy to move on.  But - understand that I will not/cannot shy away from truth-telling.  As long as you understand that, we can be friends.  And, I sincerely hope that is the case.

[Sighlass]

Oh......... LOTS of people, including Christian "leaders" have said that.  It simply does not matter to them who Trump is.  They have hitched their political wagons to him and are going along for a ride.

But at what cost?

Cost is they compromise on positions Jesus taught... Example below... Falwel Jr pitching the big tent...

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[WhatWouldReaganDo]

This is starting to resemble a Jim Robinson revival meeting. 

[Sighlass]

This is starting to resemble a Jim Robinson revival meeting. 

Lol, The water is perfect friend...


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[Sanguine]

This is starting to resemble a Jim Robinson revival meeting. 

 

[XenaLee]

"Christians" in my area cannot hang enough rainbow flags on their sanctuaries. Mayor Pete wears his "Christianity" on his sleeve. I suspect these are the kind who are making the most noise about Trump.

I can certainly understand concern with Trump's past personal behavior. But again, his policies as president on whole should reassure all actual believers.

You will notice... that the ones bitching the loudest about Trump's past personal behavior... are the very ones whose current personal behavior are reprehensible.   They have no room to cast stones, IOW.  And as far as I'm aware, Trump has done nothing questionable re: personal behavior since becoming president.   And yeah, I'm doubting the word of that skank Stormy.

[Sighlass]

You will notice... that the ones bitching the loudest about Trump's past personal behavior... are the very ones whose current personal behavior are reprehensible.   They have no room to cast stones, IOW.  And as far as I'm aware, Trump has done nothing questionable re: personal behavior since becoming president.   And yeah, I'm doubting the word of that skank Stormy.

Funny, I am not as apt to do a rolling stop in my truck when the policeman is within sight.

[TomSea]

A number of foreigners, well, in our case, Americans and over there, we are foreigners, went to go help the forces fighting ISIS, mainly joining the Kurds, I'll be danged if we should let them down, making such sacrifices.

I think that Skank Stormy said there was no sex... wasn't that in the news? Anyway, back to other things. But if there was no sex, that does bring the natural question up, why pay her off?  Anyway, one would really have to be following it closely.  Anyone know? I'll take a stab at it.

Goes to search engine and types in "Stormy Daniels No Sex"...

Stormy Daniels I'm Blue in the Face ... Trump Affair Never Happened!

Stormy Daniels says she can't say it enough -- she never banged Donald Trump, but still ... she's saying it one more time with feeling.

Stormy issued a statement Tuesday, saying she and Trump denied the affair multiple times since it allegedly went down in 2006 ... and nothing's changed. She says, "I am not denying this affair because I was paid 'hush money' as has been reported in overseas owned tabloids. I am denying this affair because it never happened."

More at: https://www.tmz.com/2018/01/30/stormy-daniels-new-denial-affair-president-trump/

And more hits say this as well.

Should Trump appropriate money from say, schools in Kentucky to build his wall? I saw Wapo with an editorial griping about this, calling it corrupt.  I can see that point. I don't agree with all the president does. Corrupt? Not sure about that.

[musiclady]

@musiclady, don't worry about hurting me; I'm much tougher than that. 

I live my life trying to be as truthful as I possibly can as a normal human being.  In fact, I think that's the only way to have a truly Godly life.  The Word = Truth.  Which can be very painful at times, but less so as we get more practice in doing it.

I invited you to metaphorically put on my glasses and see a little further than you might be able to without them.  I don't know if you find that scary, or distasteful, or whatever, and I'm not going to speculate.  That is your business, not mine.

I appreciate the apology and accept it and am happy to move on.  But - understand that I will not/cannot shy away from truth-telling.  As long as you understand that, we can be friends.  And, I sincerely hope that is the case.

I don’t find anything you said scary or distasteful, and whether your suggestion to me was metaphorical or coming after my jugular, I just responded with the truth about why I still believe what I have believed, and has been believed for millennia.

If anyone implies or states outright that I believe as I do because I haven’t considered other viewpoints, then I will defend myself every time.

The reason I can’t be persuaded by some of the bullying that goes on in political forums (I do NOT think you were bullying) is that my views are well thought out.  And as you know, now if not before, the implication that I need to open my mind and heart to come to someone else’s viewpoint is bothersome, especially coming from someone I have considered to be a friend.

In short, my apology to you comes from my heart, but I am also now aware that my opinion of you is higher than yours is of me, and I will keep that in mind going forward.

@Sanguine

[musiclady]

Cost is they compromise on positions Jesus taught... Example below... Falwel Jr pitching the big tent...

.

.

Falwell Jr inherited his father’s university, but not his brains or integrity....