Author Topic: Lindsey Graham Doesn’t Trust The Courts Who Spied On Trump — But Trusts Them With Gun Control  (Read 900 times)

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Offline Elderberry

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Daily Caller by Former Rep. Bob Barr 8/26/2019

Senate Judiciary Chairman Lindsey Graham is busy. He is openly touting the need for bipartisan legislation encouraging states to enact “red flag” gun confiscation laws, which place in the hands of local and state-level judges the near-absolute power to order confiscation of a person’s firearms. At the very same time, he talks openly of the well-known abuses by the federal Department of Justice and the super-secret Foreign Intelligence Surveillance Court (FISC) that set in motion unlawful surveillance of persons connected with the 2016 Trump campaign.

Graham’s “love-hate” perception of judges — in which they are alternatively to be trusted or mistrusted with the power to take away individual liberties otherwise protected by the Bill of Rights — is a view apparently widely held within the Congress and in the real world.

Many self-avowed Senate conservatives – Graham and Sen. Ted Cruz among them – now appear willing, if not anxious to vest lower-level judges with powers to secretly undermine individuals’ Second Amendment rights; just as the FISC judges appear to have done to the Fourth Amendment rights of Carter Paige, George Papadopoulos, and others in 2016.

More: https://dailycaller.com/2019/08/26/barr-graham-gun-control/

Offline mrclose

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Does it surprise Anyone that no one in Congress understands Why the Constitution was written?

https://mrclose.neocities.org/2ND.html
"Hell is empty, all the devil's are here!"
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Offline Bigun

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Does it surprise Anyone that no one in Congress understands Why the Constitution was written?

https://mrclose.neocities.org/2ND.html

Nope!  Not a bit.  And that is truly sad.
"I wish it need not have happened in my time," said Frodo.

"So do I," said Gandalf, "and so do all who live to see such times. But that is not for them to decide. All we have to decide is what to do with the time that is given us."
- J. R. R. Tolkien

Offline mrclose

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Nope!  Not a bit.  And that is truly sad.

Has Anyone on Faux Snooze even tried to educate their viewers on it?
Hannity, Carlson, Ingraham ....

All I hear is how great it is that Bump Stocks were outlawed!
(Hell, Just one more infringement that the criminals can ignore!)

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Offline Smokin Joe

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Bottom line is that while the proposed solutions will make lawful firearms ownership a treacherous trip through a minefield of rules, they will not stop the criminal, nor the insane, from doing their dastardly deeds, nor keep either from obtaining firearms.
 
In the absence of firearms, those truly bent on killing people will find other ways, as they have in countries where firearms are very difficult to come by.
Using everything from improvised explosives, bombs, vests, knives, rental vehicles, aircraft, and poison, the diabolical and murderous have succeeded in killing massive numbers of people, even on these shores.  All that will change is the method, not the result.

It isn't the weapon, it's the murderer.


This is a pathetic increment on the way to banning and confiscation by those who believe themselves to be our rules rather than our employees and representatives. When it, too, fails to achieve what they say it will achieve, then they will be back for more, if they don't just cut to the chase right away.

It's also a bridge too far, because it will only convince multitudes of previously compliant gun owners to ignore the law.

A worthwhile read that details how far downhill we have gone.

https://billstclair.com/Unintended-Consequences.pdf[/url]
« Last Edit: August 28, 2019, 06:15:21 am by Smokin Joe »
How God must weep at humans' folly! Stand fast! God knows what he is doing!
Seventeen Techniques for Truth Suppression

Of all tyrannies, a tyranny sincerely exercised for the good of its victims may be the most oppressive. It would be better to live under robber barons than under omnipotent moral busybodies. The robber baron's cruelty may sometimes sleep, his cupidity may at some point be satiated; but those who torment us for our own good will torment us without end for they do so with the approval of their own conscience.

C S Lewis

Offline mrclose

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I am less concerned with them taking away our guns (which they will never be able to do) than with the ignorance of the public on the Destruction of our Constitution!

Nowhere is it written that the Government can decide what is or what is not Constitutional when it comes to the 2nd amendment!

The 2nd is a Limit on Government!

"Hell is empty, all the devil's are here!"
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Offline The_Reader_David

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There is no analogy between the FISA court which is not a proper adversarial court, since those to be spied on have no standing to challenge the order to spy on them, and the role of courts in a properly drawn "red flag" law, in which the person against whom a gun-violence restraining order is sought would have standing to rebut the claim the his possession of firearms represents a danger to self or others.  Yes, an ex parte order might be sought before the respondent could present a rebuttal, but it would be lifted upon presentation of an adequate rebuttal, and it is hardly a secret proceeding -- the record of the granting of the ex parte order would be a matter of public record, available to the subject of the order, not a classified document like the orders of the FISA "court". 

Read the article by David French from NRO that I posted a link to in the starter for the thread "Trump is right to call for red flag laws". 
And when they behead your own people in the wars which are to come, then you will know what this was all about.

Offline Smokin Joe

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There is no analogy between the FISA court which is not a proper adversarial court, since those to be spied on have no standing to challenge the order to spy on them, and the role of courts in a properly drawn "red flag" law, in which the person against whom a gun-violence restraining order is sought would have standing to rebut the claim the his possession of firearms represents a danger to self or others.  Yes, an ex parte order might be sought before the respondent could present a rebuttal, but it would be lifted upon presentation of an adequate rebuttal, and it is hardly a secret proceeding -- the record of the granting of the ex parte order would be a matter of public record, available to the subject of the order, not a classified document like the orders of the FISA "court". 

Read the article by David French from NRO that I posted a link to in the starter for the thread "Trump is right to call for red flag laws".
You are still calling for someone to prove their innocence (bassackwards) before they can recover their property from the government, said property already having been taken (5th Amendment violation, and the 14th).

If that isn't American jurisprudence turned inside out, I don't know what is.

There are already adequate laws to round people up for threats, terrorizing, brandishing a weapon, and to declare a person mentally incompetent pending evaluation. Brush the dust off them and use them.
How God must weep at humans' folly! Stand fast! God knows what he is doing!
Seventeen Techniques for Truth Suppression

Of all tyrannies, a tyranny sincerely exercised for the good of its victims may be the most oppressive. It would be better to live under robber barons than under omnipotent moral busybodies. The robber baron's cruelty may sometimes sleep, his cupidity may at some point be satiated; but those who torment us for our own good will torment us without end for they do so with the approval of their own conscience.

C S Lewis

Offline roamer_1

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Many self-avowed Senate conservatives – Graham and Sen. Ted Cruz among them – now appear willing, if not anxious to vest lower-level judges with powers to secretly undermine individuals’ Second Amendment rights; [...].

WAIT WHAT???

First of all, Lindsay Graham is no conservative...

And if Cruz is in on this, as it says, he is dead to me.

Offline XenaLee

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No quarter given to the enemy within...ever.

You can vote your way into socialism, but you have to shoot your way out of it.


Offline corbe

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   Friendly reminder of what this site would look like if Myst were to ever succumb to commercialism to support her baby.

[Uh, no @corbe]

   Now back to your regularly scheduled channel, sorry @Elderberry for the off topic.
« Last Edit: August 31, 2019, 12:14:32 am by Cyber Liberty »
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Offline Elderberry

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@corbe

Your ad got thru my ad blocker. No Bueno. I've been using Ublock Origin. I guess I need to find another Mo Betta one.

@roamer_1 What ad blocker do you think'll block Corbe's ads?

Nevermind. I see the ad's long gone now.
« Last Edit: August 31, 2019, 12:18:21 am by Elderberry »

Offline Smokin Joe

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@corbe

Your ad got thru my ad blocker. No Bueno. I've been using Ublock Origin. I guess I need to find another Mo Betta one.

@roamer_1 What ad blocker do you think'll block Corbe's ads?

Nevermind. I see the ad's long gone now.
MIght need one that can block multiple ads at once....

How God must weep at humans' folly! Stand fast! God knows what he is doing!
Seventeen Techniques for Truth Suppression

Of all tyrannies, a tyranny sincerely exercised for the good of its victims may be the most oppressive. It would be better to live under robber barons than under omnipotent moral busybodies. The robber baron's cruelty may sometimes sleep, his cupidity may at some point be satiated; but those who torment us for our own good will torment us without end for they do so with the approval of their own conscience.

C S Lewis

Offline roamer_1

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@corbe

Your ad got thru my ad blocker. No Bueno. I've been using Ublock Origin. I guess I need to find another Mo Betta one.

@roamer_1 What ad blocker do you think'll block Corbe's ads?

Nevermind. I see the ad's long gone now.

@Elderberry
For the record, I use Adblock Plus in Firefox, and Ublock Origin in Chrome... Both are good, and I have no real preference - I use them both because I need to be able to troubleshoot both...

My default would be Adblock Plus, but mostly because I have used it the longest, and like the interface better because of that.


Offline Cyber Liberty

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@Elderberry
For the record, I use Adblock Plus in Firefox, and Ublock Origin in Chrome... Both are good, and I have no real preference - I use them both because I need to be able to troubleshoot both...

My default would be Adblock Plus, but mostly because I have used it the longest, and like the interface better because of that.

AdBlockMIRV®
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Offline corbe

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    I piecemealed that ad together so it could get by anyone's blocker, the content was obviously too risqué for TBR and I do appreciate that, as it kinda proved my point I get bombarded with that crap at most other sites I frequent, even w/AdBlocker, they are prevalent out there as everyone here already knows.  I appreciate all Briefers efforts to keep this place alive and I'm gonna put $20 in the 'doggie jar' cause I've been a bad boy, again.
No government in the 12,000 years of modern mankind history has led its people into anything but the history books with a simple lesson, don't let this happen to you.

Offline roamer_1

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Offline Cyber Liberty

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For unvaccinated, we are looking at a winter of severe illness and death — if you’re unvaccinated — for themselves, their families, and the hospitals they’ll soon overwhelm. Sloe Joe Biteme 12/16
I will NOT comply.
 
Castillo del Cyber Autonomous Zone ~~~~~>                          :dontfeed: